Mass Shootings - The Discussion 4ever

[stilgar]

So, Texas cops are the biggest pussies of them all. I guess everything is bigger in Texas.

[cyberbully]

This was a successful mission....Nothing said here will change that for them.

[Doom Metal Alchemist]

15 hours ago, PenguinBoss said:

I mean, I get it, but it's part of the job. It's not all civil forfeiture and racial profiling.

And here I thought proper police protocol when fearing for their lives is "shoot first, ask questions later."

[stilgar]

1 minute ago, Doom Metal Alchemist said:

And here I thought proper police protocol when fearing for their lives is "shoot first, ask questions later."

Only if they are unarmed.

[Nablonsky]

Just now, Doom Metal Alchemist said:

And here I thought proper police protocol when fearing for their lives is "shoot first, ask questions later."

Each fluid situation is different, so it's just whatever action is the most cowardly and self-serving in the moment. 

[Master-Debater131]

Im doubling down on my claims of corruption.

40% of the budget in that town apparently went to the cops. And this is how they acted? Yea, that just screams corruption. That money was being siphoned off into pockets rather than properly training the cops.

There needs to be a full blown independent investigation of the entire department. And if Texas wont do it, the Feds must get involved.

[Nablonsky]

Just now, Master-Debater131 said:

40% of the budget in that town apparently went to the cops. And this is how they acted? Yea, that just screams corruption. That money was being siphoned off into pockets rather than properly training the cops.

LOL

[stilgar]

Wow, 40% sure does follow cops around.

[Nablonsky]

2 minutes ago, stilgar said:

Wow, 40% sure does follow cops around.

[Chapinator_X]

Looks like the police department took a page from the Parkland cops and sat on their thumbs and twirled them as elementary kids were being brutally murdered. Not making a strong argument for arming cops to the teeth when they only mean mug in the face of protestors or black people. Literally any other job in America has harsher consequences for not working.

The NRA made the Parkland shooting Rubio’s payday. Wonder if Abbott and Cruz are gonna get their pockets lined once the midterms roll around. I bet those fuckers won’t even use their dead kid money to fix the power grid. 

It’s not like these politicians have a roadmap to implement any policies to make mental healthcare easier to access than assault rifles. Mental healthcare bills get killed by the same people who say we need to focus more on mental health. 

Armed guards won’t do because when you back the blue, those colors run. And if they want to keep cutting funding for education, what in their right mind makes them think they can give teachers and students the gun training they’d need to survive a fantasy Mexican standoff with a mass shooter?

They’ll just go back to saying that learning about slavery or finding out their teacher is gay or allowing a trans student to go to the bathroom is more harmful to kids than getting shot by an AR-15. Better burn the books because, apparently, the ideas in those are worse to have in a kid’s mind than bullets. 

[Master-Debater131]

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-430b975bbaacce445451e4026cedc171

" Nearly 20 officers stood in a hallway outside of the classrooms during this week’s attack on a Texas elementary school for more than 45 minutes before agents used a master key to open a door and confront a gunman, authorities said Friday."

 

They sat there, in the hallway, as the murderer was killing children.

I'll say it again, there is no coming back from this for this police department.  Beyond the complete and total failure of the PD, how can any of these cops go on in this town?  Every single person in that town knows they stood by as kids were getting killed. How can these cops go to the grocery store or restaurant or bar and get on with life knowing each and every single person there is looking at them with scorn?

 

Every single thing about this is just disgusting. And it keeps getting worse.

[discolé monade]

every story i've read, the father believed him to be a 'kid that kept to himself', as did the grandparents. 

jfc. no one. NO ONE, not even when he dropped about before graduation. and the dad doing an interview with graduation streamers on the house he lives at, 

so much to unravel. 

bottom line, once again. this is a fucking tragedy. as every school shooting is. 

but hey, tell me again  how my uterus and it's reproduction are more important. 

[1pooh4u]

The first impression when the story broke was that the cops acted immediately, Abbot was saying how much worse this could’ve been.  Meanwhile information started coming in that they did not, in fact, act immediately.  The killer stood outside the school for like 10 minutes before going into the school and calls to 911 had already been made.  
 

these pro life turd suckers that care so much for babies and the unborn, but they sure do allow the people actually breathing air to get killed in horrific ways.  Fuckin pieces of flaming shit that these people are. 

[1pooh4u]

Little girl smeared herself in her best friend’s blood and played dead. One second they’re watching Lilo & Stitch and the next she’s hit by bullet fragments that just killed her bff

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp-video/mmvo140881477825

[1pooh4u]

Worse and worse 

https://apple.news/ApFvn3MvZRl2O7uV354OKOA

https://www.salon.com/2022/05/27/decision-top-cop-stalled-response-as-student-begged-911-to-please-send-the-police_partner/
 

the stories are pretty much the same I just wasn’t sure the top link would work for everyone 

[Sawdamizer]

1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said:

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-school-shooting-430b975bbaacce445451e4026cedc171

" Nearly 20 officers stood in a hallway outside of the classrooms during this week’s attack on a Texas elementary school for more than 45 minutes before agents used a master key to open a door and confront a gunman, authorities said Friday."

 

They sat there, in the hallway, as the murderer was killing children.

I'll say it again, there is no coming back from this for this police department.  Beyond the complete and total failure of the PD, how can any of these cops go on in this town?  Every single person in that town knows they stood by as kids were getting killed. How can these cops go to the grocery store or restaurant or bar and get on with life knowing each and every single person there is looking at them with scorn?

 

Every single thing about this is just disgusting. And it keeps getting worse.

… I want to hear you extend this to all police though… because this isn’t just situational to this department….

I want to see you type out, the police force in America is shit… and does nothing besides enforce class warfare on the poor… and this is a result of their image of protect and serve…

 

[discolé monade]

1 hour ago, 1pooh4u said:

The first impression when the story broke was that the cops acted immediately, Abbot was saying how much worse this could’ve been.  Meanwhile information started coming in that they did not, in fact, act immediately.  The killer stood outside the school for like 10 minutes before going into the school and calls to 911 had already been made.  
 

these pro life turd suckers that care so much for babies and the unborn, but they sure do allow the people actually breathing air to get killed in horrific ways.  Fuckin pieces of flaming shit that these people are. 

i mean, this IS in an ALL BROWN community we're talking about, so...yeah, ya' know

[1pooh4u]

4 minutes ago, discolé monade said:

i mean, this IS in an ALL BROWN community we're talking about, so...yeah, ya' know

That could account for the cops not rushing in, and allegedly not allowing border patrol to go in either, but this also happened at Sandy Hook, a mostly white school with the same horrific results.  Idk how much ethnicity played into this.  Didn’t an officer or sheriff have a child killed in the incident? In any case these anti choice people can’t say shit to me anymore.  After all that’s happened these last few years I don’t wanna hear it from them ever again. 

[Nablonsky]

Quote

It's unclear why police assumed that the children inside the classrooms were already dead when they were still calling 911.

Law enforcement's account of the police response has changed over the days, angering the close-knit Uvalde community.

Parents outside the school that day told the Wall Street Journal that police were "doing nothing" during the shooting and had tried to stop them from entering the school themselves to help their kids.

The New York Times also reported that federal agents who traveled from the US–Mexico border to Uvalde were held back from going into the school by local police when they arrived.

The latest version of events provided by law enforcement raised even more questions about how the police handled the shooting — a situation they had been trained for — and if their delay led to more children being killed.

Been funny to see these cops banding together to publicly lie their ass off over and over, constantly changing their story hoping to obfuscate what happened just enough that they somehow come out of this smelling at least a little bit like anything other than bloody shit. 

Regular cop shit. Nothing special or unique about the way the coward cops in this militarized department conducted themselves, or their lying attempts at ass covering in the days afterward. 

[1pooh4u]

I’m just loving the conservative take on why the cops were so cowardly. It’s because the elite leftists chased all the good cops away so now we get what we get. That’s so ridiculous considering this has been happening for over 20 years and unarmed citizens been getting murdered by cops forever. We only see it now cuz of cell phones, before the cops would lie and everyone would believe the cops. 

[Nablonsky]

19 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

I’m just loving the conservative take on why the cops were so cowardly. It’s because the elite leftists chased all the good cops away so now we get what we get.

That clown narrative is fine with me, as long as they're conceding it's only bad cops now. Sounds like it's well past time to defund and replace them with something else then, since all the good cops are gone and only cowering hogs remain.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Nablonsky

[1pooh4u]

1 minute ago, Nablonsky said:

That clown narrative is fine with me, as long as they're conceding it's only bad cops now. Sounds like it's well past time to defund and replace them with something else then, since all the good cops are gone now. 

They’d never take the train that far though they’ll say the only way to fix it is to give them more money for better training and bigger guns.  Same shit different day. 

[Sawdamizer]

They need drones with MOABs and nuclear submarines…. 
 

Two kids called 911 begging for them to send police in…. 

[discolé monade]

[Sawdamizer]

https://click.redditmail.com/CL0/https:%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fnews%2Fcomments%2Fuz8xdt%2Fa_grisly_checklist_and_a_sickening_rampage_inside%2Fia8zz41%2F%3F$deep_link=true%26correlation_id=0c19662d-8774-4bd8-8b92-3701282b3aa6%26ref=email_comment_reply%26ref_campaign=email_comment_reply%26ref_source=email/2/0100018107b607cb-5b9d4699-e3b5-42a2-806c-705eb075832a-000000/C8GVsXjMUnHPVZJtKGnfsbmXifZyI5NGWca1JOm0hbY=250

[Sawdamizer]

Sorry for the busted link, tried getting around the paywall and I’m on mobile…

[katt_goddess]

9 minutes ago, Sawdamizer said:

https://click.redditmail.com/CL0/https:%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fnews%2Fcomments%2Fuz8xdt%2Fa_grisly_checklist_and_a_sickening_rampage_inside%2Fia8zz41%2F%3F$deep_link=true%26correlation_id=0c19662d-8774-4bd8-8b92-3701282b3aa6%26ref=email_comment_reply%26ref_campaign=email_comment_reply%26ref_source=email/2/0100018107b607cb-5b9d4699-e3b5-42a2-806c-705eb075832a-000000/C8GVsXjMUnHPVZJtKGnfsbmXifZyI5NGWca1JOm0hbY=250

Spoiler

UVALDE, Tex. — The gray Ford pickup truck veered into a ditch with such force that people who live on the block assumed it was an accident and rushed over to help the driver.

Instead, according to witness and police accounts, Salvador Rolando Ramos emerged wearing tactical gear and carrying an AR-15-style rifle he bought this month, just after his 18th birthday. Bystanders scattered as Ramos hopped a fence, exchanged gunfire with a school police officer and entered through a side door to Robb Elementary. Inside, he embarked on a deadly rampage that brought the national scourge of school shootings to a fourth-grade classroom in this southern Texas town.

 

“That’s where the carnage began,” Steven McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said at a news conference Wednesday. On Thursday, police officials said their first account of what happened was inaccurate and the gunman entered the school unobstructed and did not exchange gunfire with a school police officer outside.

 

Authorities say the attack was part of a grisly checklist Ramos had shared in private social media messages early Tuesday. The first item was to kill his grandmother, who lives near the school. He shot her in the face, authorities said, then left her for dead as he drove off in her truck. “I shot my grandmother,” Ramos wrote in an update. The next threat, according to the messages, was to “shoot an elementary school.” Within minutes of pressing send, shortly after 11:30 a.m., Ramos was barricaded inside a classroom with the 19 students and two teachers he would kill.

 

Those are the central elements of the timeline, pieced together from law enforcement statements, witness accounts and social media posts by families of victims. In the hours after the shooting, associates of Ramos shared disturbing exchanges or observations about him that suggested he was in a downward spiral, with a miserable home life, no chance of graduating with his senior class and a history of being bullied for his speech and attire.

 

Still, much of the way events unfolded remains unclear, including whether authorities missed warning signs or could have intervened earlier to prevent Ramos from reaching the classroom. Likewise, talk of motives remains speculative, with Texas officials invoking “mental illness” and biblical notions of good and evil to make sense of the violence.

On May 12, Ramos began messaging a California girl via Instagram, asking if she would repost photos of his gun. The teen, who has since shared the exchanges publicly, described the messages as scary and strange because she didn’t know Ramos.

Spoiler

Early Tuesday, hours before his attack, Ramos again messaged the girl, writing, “I’m about to” without finishing the thought. He told her he had “a lil secret” he wanted to share. She blew him off, saying she was sick and might be asleep. “Ima air out,” he wrote, a slang term that means to shoot a group of people, or “air out” a space. By the time the girl responded to his final message to her, Ramos probably was dead, according to the authorities’ timeline that says he was killed around 1 p.m.

On Tuesday morning, Miguel Cerrillo’s 11-year-old daughter Miah arrived late to school after a doctor’s appointment. Less than an hour later, the shooting began. When the parents heard the news, Cerrillo said, his wife got to the school first to check on their two daughters. He said his wife watched parents trying to break windows to help students escape.When he arrived just after noon, Cerrillo said, he joined a crowd of law enforcement officers, journalists and a growing group of terrified parents. Some time later, he saw an officer exit the school carrying two children. One of them was Miah, alive but covered in blood. She was loaded onto a yellow school bus.“I panicked,” Cerrillo said, describing how he ran toward the bus but was prevented from retrieving his daughter. They could only speak through the window, with Miah describing some of the violence she witnessed. Cerrillo said his daughter saw her teacher, Eva Mireles, shot and the phone slip from her teacher’s hand. Miah grabbed it and called 911.

One of her classmates also was shot, Cerrillo’s daughter said, and bleeding. She decided to lie on top of the girl so the gunman would think they were both dead. At first her friend was still breathing, but she died before help arrived, Miah said, according to Cerrillo’s account.

His daughter’s left side, from her neck all the way down her back, was lacerated by small bullet fragments, and her hair was singed by gunfire. At Uvalde Memorial Hospital, doctors disinfected and bandaged the cuts but decided against removing the fragments. Miah was discharged late Tuesday evening and spent the night seized with fear, telling her father to get his gun because “he’s going to come get us.”

Spoiler

On Wednesday, the parents took her to another medical checkup and then to Sacred Heart Catholic Church in search of peace. They lit a candle. Two priests “prayed over her and prayed over us,” Cerrillo said. He said he still hadn’t come to terms with the tragedy.

“We figured Uvalde was safe,” he said. “Now we know it’s not safe.”

The latest revelations show the horror of a massacre so big in a town so small. The daughter of a sheriff’s deputy was among the dead. A cumbia DJ, an aviation mechanic and a pastor were all grieving slain children. Two members of a girls’ basketball team were killed and another injured. One Uvalde man lost three relatives in the shooting.

In addition to the dead, at least 17 people were wounded or injured, according to state authorities.

On Wednesday morning, Cathy Gonzalez did what she does every day — take people’s orders for coffee, sodas and tacos at Ofelia’s and cash them out — but one thing was missing.

These kids, we knew them. We know their parents, we know their grandparents,” Gonzalez said. “We’d see them every day.”

Mireles, the slain teacher, “was a regular,” Gonzalez said. So was Mireles’ husband, a police officer who works at the high school. Other victims came in often, and Gonzalez said she often gave them quarters for the restaurant’s gumball machines.

“We bought their plate sales for baseball teams, or whatever fundraisers for school they had going on,” she said. The shooter “hurt all of us.”

According to the timeline authorities offered publicly, a first alert came from Ramos’s 66-year-old grandmother, who survived and was able to call police. She remains in critical condition after surgery. A woman who identified herself as Salvador Ramos’s mother said in a brief phone conversation that the grandmother was expected to recover.

Within minutes of shooting his grandmother, Ramos had driven the couple of blocks to Robb Elementary, where students and people in the neighborhood were on lunch break.

Spoiler

One lingering question is when exactly the shooting began. Authorities agree that the gunman was dead by 1 p.m. but have offered conflicting accounts as to whether the attack began around 11:30 a.m. or closer to noon. By 11:43 a.m., the school announced on Facebook that it was under lockdown, citing gunshots in the area. “The students and staff are safe in the building,” it said.

In public transmissions on a radio channel used by local EMS workers, someone said at 11:53 a.m. that a lieutenant had requested a response to the area of the school. As the response was discussed, one official was heard telling first responders: “Please, just stay back.”

The Post reviewed recordings of the channel that were published on the website Broadcastify. The public channel for EMS did not capture the transmissions for all law enforcement at the scene but indicated when information was relayed to local EMS crews.

When the attacker crashed the truck, it prompted a 911 call from a resident who added that the driver apparently had a rifle, said Travis Considine, spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety. The gunman encountered a school police officer and “they exchange gunfire,” Considine said, with the shooter wounding the officer and heading inside. On Thursday, Victor Escalon Jr., the Department of Public Safety’s South Texas regional director, said there was no encounter outside the school between the shooter and a school police officer. “He walked in unobstructed initially,” Escalon said.

The side entrance to the school should have been locked, but it was unclear whether it was or if Ramos forced it open. Escalon said Thursday that the door was apparently unlocked.

Two Uvalde police officers then showed up, Considine said, and tried to get inside, exchanging more gunfire with Ramos. Both officers were wounded, he said. The attacker then went to a fourth-grade classroom, where he barricaded himself in and “does most, if not all, of his damage.” A Border Patrol team responded to the scene, as did other law enforcement officials, who “were breaking windows and getting kids out,” Considine said.

Spoiler

By 12:10 p.m., a Facebook live stream recorded out the front of the school showed that police cars had established a perimeter, helicopters were flying overhead and onlookers had gathered. Seven minutes later, school authorities announced on social media there was “an active shooter at Robb Elementary.”

Shots were still being heard at 12:52 p.m., according to radio recordings. “Do not attempt to get closer,” a voice warned on the EMS channel.

After hearing gunfire, authorities said, a tactical team formed a “stack” formation and eventually breached the classroom door and killed Ramos in a shootout. Ramos was in the room for some time before police officers entered, and it was unclear whether he killed the students when he first barricaded himself inside or just before the police breached the room.

At 1:06 p.m., Uvalde Police announced on social media that the attack was over.

“We saw a little girl full of blood and the parents were screaming,” said Derek Sotelo, 26 — who runs Sotelo’s Auto Service and Tire Shop, a family-owned business that’s been in downtown Uvalde since 1950 — of a student exiting the school after Ramos was killed. “It was an ugly scene.”

Flanking Gov. Greg Abbott (R) at a news conference Wednesday, Texas law enforcement officials acknowledged a “failure” in preventing the shooting but repeatedly emphasized that quick reaction by authorities probably saved lives.

In Uvalde, population around 16,000, news of the shooting spread so quickly that dozens of people had gathered outside the cordoned-off school before the shooting was over. Most were parents or relatives of students, desperate for word that they were safe. Pleas for information popped up on Facebook, alongside photos of smiling children holding certificates from an award ceremony earlier that day.

“My son’s name is Rogelio Torres,” one father said, his face drawn, speaking to a local TV reporter. “Please, if you know something, let us know.” Within hours, Torres’s son became one of the first children confirmed dead.

Javier Cazares was on an errand a half-mile away from his 9-year-old daughter’s school when he heard about a commotion near Robb.

Within minutes, Cazares said, he and at least four other men who had children in the school were huddled near the building’s front door. Then the fathers started hearing gunfire coming from the building.

“There were five or six of [us] fathers, hearing the gunshots, and [police officers] were telling us to move back,” Cazares said. “We didn’t care about us. We wanted to storm the building. We were saying, ‘Let’s go’ because that is how worried we were, and we wanted to get our babies out.”

It wasn’t until several hours later, after his daughter never emerged from the building, that Cazares learned Jacklyn had been shot and later died at the hospital.

As the day wore on, the details became excruciating. Outside a local civic center that became a gathering place for families, witnesses described hearing screams as families received confirmation of children’s deaths. Some relatives were asked for DNA samples to help investigators verify identities. Images from outside the center showed red-eyed families wailing and embracing.

As the sun started to set Tuesday evening, John Juhasz stood inside the gymnasium at the Getty Street Church of Christ, welcoming people who came in to pray.

“We’re just trying to encourage each other and trying to get through this,” he said.

About a dozen people sat around plastic tables, under the fluorescent lights, to talk about what still seemed impossible to many of them. Miguelina Olivarez, 37, a nurse, said she heard about the shooting from her son and daughter, a high school senior and freshman.

“My daughter called me and said she was hiding, that they were on lockdown for an active shooter,” she said. Olivarez said she then heard that the shooting was at the elementary school.

“And I immediately thought about all of the little cousins that we have at that school,” she said. One of her cousins, a 10-year-old, was wounded and was rushed to a San Antonio hospital for surgery.

Erika Escamilla, 26, said that waiting for news about her niece and two nephews who attend the elementary school was like torture. Within a couple of hours of the shooting, they were reunited. Her niece, age 10, told Escamilla the shooting happened in the classroom next to hers.

The girl’s class was just coming in from recess when they heard a man cursing and yelling, and then gunshots. Their teacher pushed them into the classroom and told them to get down, Escamilla said. The teacher then turned off the air conditioner and the lights, and started to cover the windows with paper. When the children eventually were led to safety, Escamilla’s niece glimpsed the horrific scene in the classroom next door.

“She’s traumatized. She said she felt like she was having a heart attack,” Escamilla said. “She saw blood everywhere.”

Marcela Cabralez, a local pastor, received two calls not long after the shooting began around midday Tuesday. The first was from her daughter, who works at the school, speaking so frantically that the only decipherable message was: Check on the kids.

Cabralez was able to confirm that they were safe, but shaken — her 9-year-old granddaughter was eating lunch when the shooting began and is now fearful of sudden attacks; her grandson hid in a bathroom during the ordeal.

“They just don’t feel safe anymore,” Cabralez said.

The next call Cabralez received was from a fellow pastor who runs Hillcrest Memorial funeral home, a gathering place for traumatized children and teachers who escaped the shooting. The call was a request for help with counseling.

When she arrived at the funeral home, Cabralez said, she saw survivors rocking themselves, holding one another, covering their ears with their hands, and screaming. Others stared blankly in silence. Cabralez said she started to pray, with some of the children repeating after her.

“I tried to let them know they were safe,” she said.

Allam and Nakhlawi reported from Washington and Slater from Williamstown, Mass. Tim Craig and Eva Ruth Moravec in Uvalde; Annie Gowen in Lawrence, Kan.; Jon Swaine in New York; and Mark Berman, Silvia Foster-Frau, Devlin Barrett, Marissa J. Lang and Joyce Lee in Washington contributed to this report.

I think that covers it.

Spoilered because long.

[PenguinBoss]

Just a reminder that half the country will vote for this guy in 2 years time.

[Doom Metal Alchemist]

The Uvalde tragedy is the straw that broke the camel's back for San Francisco Giants' manager Gabe Kapler, who announced he will no longer be on the field during the national anthem, until he feels better at the direction of the country.

https://www.audacy.com/957thegame/sports/san-francisco-giants/gabe-kapler-explains-why-he-wont-come-out-for-anthem?fbclid=IwAR3QDJ2RuiFh7NWfUGRxgD__WMVVaTSvzcPMJP_xsbdIeTFwX_bk_6NhMmE

I wonder how many conservatives will burn Kapler jerseys and demand for him to be exiled as a traitor.

[stilgar]

32 minutes ago, PenguinBoss said:

 

What the fuck does this even mean?

[Sawdamizer]

11 minutes ago, Doom Metal Alchemist said:

The Uvalde tragedy is the straw that broke the camel's back for San Francisco Giants' manager Gabe Kapler, who announced he will no longer be on the field during the national anthem, until he feels better at the direction of the country.

https://www.audacy.com/957thegame/sports/san-francisco-giants/gabe-kapler-explains-why-he-wont-come-out-for-anthem?fbclid=IwAR3QDJ2RuiFh7NWfUGRxgD__WMVVaTSvzcPMJP_xsbdIeTFwX_bk_6NhMmE

I wonder how many conservatives will burn Kapler jerseys and demand for him to be exiled as a traitor.

Lmao….

[katt_goddess]

17 minutes ago, stilgar said:

What the fuck does this even mean?

He's been watching ancient tv shows late at night again when he's only slightly demented so he thinks all doors are made of styrofoam and one-plywood when he's in full swisscheese mode. 

[1pooh4u]

1 hour ago, katt_goddess said:

  Hide contents

UVALDE, Tex. — The gray Ford pickup truck veered into a ditch with such force that people who live on the block assumed it was an accident and rushed over to help the driver.

Instead, according to witness and police accounts, Salvador Rolando Ramos emerged wearing tactical gear and carrying an AR-15-style rifle he bought this month, just after his 18th birthday. Bystanders scattered as Ramos hopped a fence, exchanged gunfire with a school police officer and entered through a side door to Robb Elementary. Inside, he embarked on a deadly rampage that brought the national scourge of school shootings to a fourth-grade classroom in this southern Texas town.

 

“That’s where the carnage began,” Steven McCraw, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, said at a news conference Wednesday. On Thursday, police officials said their first account of what happened was inaccurate and the gunman entered the school unobstructed and did not exchange gunfire with a school police officer outside.

 

Authorities say the attack was part of a grisly checklist Ramos had shared in private social media messages early Tuesday. The first item was to kill his grandmother, who lives near the school. He shot her in the face, authorities said, then left her for dead as he drove off in her truck. “I shot my grandmother,” Ramos wrote in an update. The next threat, according to the messages, was to “shoot an elementary school.” Within minutes of pressing send, shortly after 11:30 a.m., Ramos was barricaded inside a classroom with the 19 students and two teachers he would kill.

 

Those are the central elements of the timeline, pieced together from law enforcement statements, witness accounts and social media posts by families of victims. In the hours after the shooting, associates of Ramos shared disturbing exchanges or observations about him that suggested he was in a downward spiral, with a miserable home life, no chance of graduating with his senior class and a history of being bullied for his speech and attire.

 

Still, much of the way events unfolded remains unclear, including whether authorities missed warning signs or could have intervened earlier to prevent Ramos from reaching the classroom. Likewise, talk of motives remains speculative, with Texas officials invoking “mental illness” and biblical notions of good and evil to make sense of the violence.

On May 12, Ramos began messaging a California girl via Instagram, asking if she would repost photos of his gun. The teen, who has since shared the exchanges publicly, described the messages as scary and strange because she didn’t know Ramos.

  Reveal hidden contents

Early Tuesday, hours before his attack, Ramos again messaged the girl, writing, “I’m about to” without finishing the thought. He told her he had “a lil secret” he wanted to share. She blew him off, saying she was sick and might be asleep. “Ima air out,” he wrote, a slang term that means to shoot a group of people, or “air out” a space. By the time the girl responded to his final message to her, Ramos probably was dead, according to the authorities’ timeline that says he was killed around 1 p.m.

On Tuesday morning, Miguel Cerrillo’s 11-year-old daughter Miah arrived late to school after a doctor’s appointment. Less than an hour later, the shooting began. When the parents heard the news, Cerrillo said, his wife got to the school first to check on their two daughters. He said his wife watched parents trying to break windows to help students escape.When he arrived just after noon, Cerrillo said, he joined a crowd of law enforcement officers, journalists and a growing group of terrified parents. Some time later, he saw an officer exit the school carrying two children. One of them was Miah, alive but covered in blood. She was loaded onto a yellow school bus.“I panicked,” Cerrillo said, describing how he ran toward the bus but was prevented from retrieving his daughter. They could only speak through the window, with Miah describing some of the violence she witnessed. Cerrillo said his daughter saw her teacher, Eva Mireles, shot and the phone slip from her teacher’s hand. Miah grabbed it and called 911.

One of her classmates also was shot, Cerrillo’s daughter said, and bleeding. She decided to lie on top of the girl so the gunman would think they were both dead. At first her friend was still breathing, but she died before help arrived, Miah said, according to Cerrillo’s account.

His daughter’s left side, from her neck all the way down her back, was lacerated by small bullet fragments, and her hair was singed by gunfire. At Uvalde Memorial Hospital, doctors disinfected and bandaged the cuts but decided against removing the fragments. Miah was discharged late Tuesday evening and spent the night seized with fear, telling her father to get his gun because “he’s going to come get us.”

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On Wednesday, the parents took her to another medical checkup and then to Sacred Heart Catholic Church in search of peace. They lit a candle. Two priests “prayed over her and prayed over us,” Cerrillo said. He said he still hadn’t come to terms with the tragedy.

“We figured Uvalde was safe,” he said. “Now we know it’s not safe.”

The latest revelations show the horror of a massacre so big in a town so small. The daughter of a sheriff’s deputy was among the dead. A cumbia DJ, an aviation mechanic and a pastor were all grieving slain children. Two members of a girls’ basketball team were killed and another injured. One Uvalde man lost three relatives in the shooting.

In addition to the dead, at least 17 people were wounded or injured, according to state authorities.

On Wednesday morning, Cathy Gonzalez did what she does every day — take people’s orders for coffee, sodas and tacos at Ofelia’s and cash them out — but one thing was missing.

These kids, we knew them. We know their parents, we know their grandparents,” Gonzalez said. “We’d see them every day.”

Mireles, the slain teacher, “was a regular,” Gonzalez said. So was Mireles’ husband, a police officer who works at the high school. Other victims came in often, and Gonzalez said she often gave them quarters for the restaurant’s gumball machines.

“We bought their plate sales for baseball teams, or whatever fundraisers for school they had going on,” she said. The shooter “hurt all of us.”

According to the timeline authorities offered publicly, a first alert came from Ramos’s 66-year-old grandmother, who survived and was able to call police. She remains in critical condition after surgery. A woman who identified herself as Salvador Ramos’s mother said in a brief phone conversation that the grandmother was expected to recover.

Within minutes of shooting his grandmother, Ramos had driven the couple of blocks to Robb Elementary, where students and people in the neighborhood were on lunch break.

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One lingering question is when exactly the shooting began. Authorities agree that the gunman was dead by 1 p.m. but have offered conflicting accounts as to whether the attack began around 11:30 a.m. or closer to noon. By 11:43 a.m., the school announced on Facebook that it was under lockdown, citing gunshots in the area. “The students and staff are safe in the building,” it said.

In public transmissions on a radio channel used by local EMS workers, someone said at 11:53 a.m. that a lieutenant had requested a response to the area of the school. As the response was discussed, one official was heard telling first responders: “Please, just stay back.”

The Post reviewed recordings of the channel that were published on the website Broadcastify. The public channel for EMS did not capture the transmissions for all law enforcement at the scene but indicated when information was relayed to local EMS crews.

When the attacker crashed the truck, it prompted a 911 call from a resident who added that the driver apparently had a rifle, said Travis Considine, spokesman for the Texas Department of Public Safety. The gunman encountered a school police officer and “they exchange gunfire,” Considine said, with the shooter wounding the officer and heading inside. On Thursday, Victor Escalon Jr., the Department of Public Safety’s South Texas regional director, said there was no encounter outside the school between the shooter and a school police officer. “He walked in unobstructed initially,” Escalon said.

The side entrance to the school should have been locked, but it was unclear whether it was or if Ramos forced it open. Escalon said Thursday that the door was apparently unlocked.

Two Uvalde police officers then showed up, Considine said, and tried to get inside, exchanging more gunfire with Ramos. Both officers were wounded, he said. The attacker then went to a fourth-grade classroom, where he barricaded himself in and “does most, if not all, of his damage.” A Border Patrol team responded to the scene, as did other law enforcement officials, who “were breaking windows and getting kids out,” Considine said.

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By 12:10 p.m., a Facebook live stream recorded out the front of the school showed that police cars had established a perimeter, helicopters were flying overhead and onlookers had gathered. Seven minutes later, school authorities announced on social media there was “an active shooter at Robb Elementary.”

Shots were still being heard at 12:52 p.m., according to radio recordings. “Do not attempt to get closer,” a voice warned on the EMS channel.

After hearing gunfire, authorities said, a tactical team formed a “stack” formation and eventually breached the classroom door and killed Ramos in a shootout. Ramos was in the room for some time before police officers entered, and it was unclear whether he killed the students when he first barricaded himself inside or just before the police breached the room.

At 1:06 p.m., Uvalde Police announced on social media that the attack was over.

“We saw a little girl full of blood and the parents were screaming,” said Derek Sotelo, 26 — who runs Sotelo’s Auto Service and Tire Shop, a family-owned business that’s been in downtown Uvalde since 1950 — of a student exiting the school after Ramos was killed. “It was an ugly scene.”

Flanking Gov. Greg Abbott (R) at a news conference Wednesday, Texas law enforcement officials acknowledged a “failure” in preventing the shooting but repeatedly emphasized that quick reaction by authorities probably saved lives.

In Uvalde, population around 16,000, news of the shooting spread so quickly that dozens of people had gathered outside the cordoned-off school before the shooting was over. Most were parents or relatives of students, desperate for word that they were safe. Pleas for information popped up on Facebook, alongside photos of smiling children holding certificates from an award ceremony earlier that day.

“My son’s name is Rogelio Torres,” one father said, his face drawn, speaking to a local TV reporter. “Please, if you know something, let us know.” Within hours, Torres’s son became one of the first children confirmed dead.

Javier Cazares was on an errand a half-mile away from his 9-year-old daughter’s school when he heard about a commotion near Robb.

Within minutes, Cazares said, he and at least four other men who had children in the school were huddled near the building’s front door. Then the fathers started hearing gunfire coming from the building.

“There were five or six of [us] fathers, hearing the gunshots, and [police officers] were telling us to move back,” Cazares said. “We didn’t care about us. We wanted to storm the building. We were saying, ‘Let’s go’ because that is how worried we were, and we wanted to get our babies out.”

It wasn’t until several hours later, after his daughter never emerged from the building, that Cazares learned Jacklyn had been shot and later died at the hospital.

As the day wore on, the details became excruciating. Outside a local civic center that became a gathering place for families, witnesses described hearing screams as families received confirmation of children’s deaths. Some relatives were asked for DNA samples to help investigators verify identities. Images from outside the center showed red-eyed families wailing and embracing.

As the sun started to set Tuesday evening, John Juhasz stood inside the gymnasium at the Getty Street Church of Christ, welcoming people who came in to pray.

“We’re just trying to encourage each other and trying to get through this,” he said.

About a dozen people sat around plastic tables, under the fluorescent lights, to talk about what still seemed impossible to many of them. Miguelina Olivarez, 37, a nurse, said she heard about the shooting from her son and daughter, a high school senior and freshman.

“My daughter called me and said she was hiding, that they were on lockdown for an active shooter,” she said. Olivarez said she then heard that the shooting was at the elementary school.

“And I immediately thought about all of the little cousins that we have at that school,” she said. One of her cousins, a 10-year-old, was wounded and was rushed to a San Antonio hospital for surgery.

Erika Escamilla, 26, said that waiting for news about her niece and two nephews who attend the elementary school was like torture. Within a couple of hours of the shooting, they were reunited. Her niece, age 10, told Escamilla the shooting happened in the classroom next to hers.

The girl’s class was just coming in from recess when they heard a man cursing and yelling, and then gunshots. Their teacher pushed them into the classroom and told them to get down, Escamilla said. The teacher then turned off the air conditioner and the lights, and started to cover the windows with paper. When the children eventually were led to safety, Escamilla’s niece glimpsed the horrific scene in the classroom next door.

“She’s traumatized. She said she felt like she was having a heart attack,” Escamilla said. “She saw blood everywhere.”

Marcela Cabralez, a local pastor, received two calls not long after the shooting began around midday Tuesday. The first was from her daughter, who works at the school, speaking so frantically that the only decipherable message was: Check on the kids.

Cabralez was able to confirm that they were safe, but shaken — her 9-year-old granddaughter was eating lunch when the shooting began and is now fearful of sudden attacks; her grandson hid in a bathroom during the ordeal.

“They just don’t feel safe anymore,” Cabralez said.

The next call Cabralez received was from a fellow pastor who runs Hillcrest Memorial funeral home, a gathering place for traumatized children and teachers who escaped the shooting. The call was a request for help with counseling.

When she arrived at the funeral home, Cabralez said, she saw survivors rocking themselves, holding one another, covering their ears with their hands, and screaming. Others stared blankly in silence. Cabralez said she started to pray, with some of the children repeating after her.

“I tried to let them know they were safe,” she said.

Allam and Nakhlawi reported from Washington and Slater from Williamstown, Mass. Tim Craig and Eva Ruth Moravec in Uvalde; Annie Gowen in Lawrence, Kan.; Jon Swaine in New York; and Mark Berman, Silvia Foster-Frau, Devlin Barrett, Marissa J. Lang and Joyce Lee in Washington contributed to this report.

I think that covers it.

Spoilered because long.

See, I had thought they engaged him once he crashed too but that was all bullshit?  Why even tell that lie how was that supposed to make the cops look good?  

[1pooh4u]

1 hour ago, PenguinBoss said:

Just a reminder that half the country will vote for this guy in 2 years time.

He’s not the only one to make that dumb ass suggestion.  Would these doors automatically lock the children inside?  What if there’s an emergency and kids need to get out or emergency services in? How in the fuck is imprisoning children for 8 hours a day even seen as a psychologically healthy solution?

[PenguinBoss]

7 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

How in the fuck is imprisoning children for 8 hours a day even seen as a psychologically healthy solution?

That doesn't sound nearly as traumatic as wearing a piece of cloth over your face.

[Nablonsky]

How's this make any sense? Literally what were they waiting for. All that military gear but no way to get past a locked door? Sacrificing a classroom of children to the shooter while stalling and figuring out how to proceed with zero risk to any cops. Feds didn't just immediately supercede the PD's shooter-enabling strategy of cowering?

 

 

 

 

[1pooh4u]

24 minutes ago, Nablonsky said:

How's this make any sense? Literally what were they waiting for. All that military gear but no way to get past a locked door? Sacrificing a classroom of children to the shooter while stalling and figuring out how to proceed with zero risk to any cops. Feds didn't just immediately supercede the PD's shooter-enabling strategy of cowering?

 

 

 

 

I don’t understand why the federal border agents didn’t just say “fuck you we’re handling it” as soon as they saw the inaction of the cops.  
 

 

[Nablonsky]

Ornamental neon clown pigs. 

 

"Engage the shooter immediately, as soon as possible, go in solo if necessary. If a cop next to you is shot, continue engaging the shooter. If you aren't willing to risk your own safety to protect innocent victims get a different job."

From the larp cops' own protocol for active shooters. 

[1pooh4u]

None of that happened.   They worried about themselves and convinced themselves everyone inside was dead and the frantic 911 calls were actually from ghosts.  The Governor wants to pretend he’s mad because the cops lied to him. Well, cops lie, they’re liars. It’s been said time and again yet he still surprised face Pikachued when they lied to him.  Fuckin asshole Governor and his pitiful police force. 

[PhilosipherStoned]

I'm just gonna put this here. As I've said before I've been in support of Beto for a while. Even when he isn't running for office he's canvassing and running charaties and fundraisers, and spreading awareness for dem party ideals in Texas.  Shit like abortion rights, the dumbass power grid, etc. Shit repuplicans keep fucking up. This isn't the first time blowing up about gun control has supposedly "cost" him as a politician either. 🙄

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/politics/beto-orourke-uvalde-greg-abbott/index.html

 

[naraku360]

3 hours ago, Nablonsky said:

Ornamental neon clown pigs. 

 

"Engage the shooter immediately, as soon as possible, go in solo if necessary. If a cop next to you is shot, continue engaging the shooter. If you aren't willing to risk your own safety to protect innocent victims get a different job."

From the larp cops' own protocol for active shooters. 

19 officers staged outside the classroom. 78 minutes elapsed before they entered. Children repeatedly called 911 from inside.

“It was the wrong decision,” top officer says.

 

They needed a top officer to speak authoritatively on the matter.

[rpgamer]

This point does raise some valid concerns...

 

[scoobdog]

5 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

I don’t understand why the federal border agents didn’t just say “fuck you we’re handling it” as soon as they saw the inaction of the cops.  

Probably because they had no idea if the locals already had an operation underway.  It can't be understated how colossally inept the local PD had to be to have a federal agency that wasn't specifically trained for these kind of situations move in over them.

[Sawdamizer]

2 hours ago, scoobdog said:

Probably because they had no idea if the locals already had an operation underway.  It can't be understated how colossally inept the local PD had to be to have a federal agency that wasn't specifically trained for these kind of situations move in over them.

I hope their pride can recover from all of this…

[Sawdamizer]

This might be just subtle enough to piss off the right people

[1pooh4u]

5 minutes ago, Sawdamizer said:

This might be just subtle enough to piss off the right people

I had this saved but without the crime scene writing it was just a yellow line. I like it without the writing because it has more layers. The yellow line without writing can rep crime scene tape, also cowardice and the line of piss that trailed down each cops’ leg as they allowed children to be shot dead. 

[Sawdamizer]

I guess we can start moving this shit to a cartoon, or DF at this point based on the absurdity of what gun advocates want… right? Anyways…  funny not funny… memes..

their right to own killing “tools”…. Kills our children…

@Ginguy, I usually leave you alone because I get what it’s like to be on the wrong side of the fence for awhile… and the right lost me years ago… you’ve been absent recently… come talk about what we are missing… and defend that 2nd amendment and the razor thin blue line that’s heavily militarized by government gifts and war time armor.

 

[Sawdamizer]

Just now, 1pooh4u said:

I had this saved but without the crime scene writing it was just a yellow line. I like it without the writing because it has more layers. The yellow line without writing can rep crime scene tape, also cowardice and the line of piss that trailed down each cops’ leg as they allowed children to be shot dead. 

I’m going hard… I don’t care

[Sawdamizer]

I will tag @Ginguy, everyday until he responds btw… @katt_goddess, you can eat my ass if that isn’t appropriate… I don’t have many other outlets of discussion without the passion that includes my personal family.

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Sawdamizer

[1pooh4u]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
 

see, the commas indicate a pause within a continuous thought. The people didn’t literally reference all the people. How do we know this?  Because the time the second Amendment was written a lot of people were excluded from these rights.  The people refers to the state not the individual. This was well known until the 1900s, actually the mid to late 1900s, when the NRA got taken over by ammosexuals that campaigned to change the intent of the amendment.   It went from people being the state to just being people in the literal sense. Past texts written by the framers be damned.