Trump's FBI Raid Goes Nuclear

[SwimModSponges]

Trump tried to trade his stolen nuke documents for documents about the investigation into his russia ties.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-today-biden-fbi-mar-a-lago-b2198485.html

[1pooh4u]

None of that matters nothing will be enough to send him to prison.  Canon pretty much said he deserves special treatment.  conservatives, both politicians and private citizens, regurgitate that information like barking sea lions fighting for that last bit of shit covered rock. 

[SwimModSponges]

Yeah, they say that democracy comes packaged with the very tools to destroy itself by voting in fascists. 

Fascists be like "haha, we're not going to follow the rules, but you have to follow the rules if you want to stop us."

And democrats be like "ok, we're following the rules. The rules say we can stop you now."

And the fascists are like "haha, we don't have to follow the rules. And also we just changed the rules. Now we're going to start killing you."

[1pooh4u]

And when they get caught they pull a

and they get away with it 

[NewBluntsworth]

6 hours ago, SwimModSponges said:

Yeah, they say that democracy comes packaged with the very tools to destroy itself by voting in fascists. 

Fascists be like "haha, we're not going to follow the rules, but you have to follow the rules if you want to stop us."

And democrats be like "ok, we're following the rules. The rules say we can stop you now."

And the fascists are like "haha, we don't have to follow the rules. And also we just changed the rules. Now we're going to start killing you."

The way you're conflating "democracy" with "Democrats" here is.... really something. 

But yes, the Democrats won't do anything to stop fascism, you are right about that. 

You'll keep voting for that garbage though. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[SwimModSponges]

15 hours ago, SwimModSponges said:

Trump tried to trade his stolen nuke documents for documents about the investigation into his russia ties.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-today-biden-fbi-mar-a-lago-b2198485.html

I'm surprised this isnt the post you took issue with. 

[Seight]

24 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said:

I'm surprised this isnt the post you took issue with. 

He didn't see what the problem with that was.

[naraku360]

15 hours ago, NewBluntsworth said:

The way you're conflating "democracy" with "Democrats" here is.... really something. 

But yes, the Democrats won't do anything to stop fascism, you are right about that. 

You'll keep voting for that garbage though. 

No he isn't.

[SwimModSponges]

I feel like it bears repeating that the former president of the united states  stole classified nuclear secrets and held them for ransom in exchange for classified documents describing how he worked with a hostile foreign nation to manipulate the election that made him president.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-mar-a-lago-files-2016-fbi-russia-investigation-archives-2022-10

Because that's some goofy shit.

[matrixman124]

13 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said:

I feel like it bears repeating that the former president of the united states  stole classified nuclear secrets and held them for ransom in exchange for classified documents describing how he worked with a hostile foreign nation to manipulate the election that made him president.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-mar-a-lago-files-2016-fbi-russia-investigation-archives-2022-10

Because that's some goofy shit.

Strange fucking times indeed

[PenguinBoss]

 

[Seight]

5 hours ago, PenguinBoss said:

 

This is actually pretty smart of him if you think about it, most people would look at that quote and think "No come on, his ass is not reading a book."

[SwimModSponges]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/10/12/maralago-witness-trump-boxes-moved

Quote

A Trump employee has told federal agents about moving boxes of documents at Mar-a-Lago at the specific direction of the former president, according to people familiar with the investigation, who say the witness account — combined with security-camera footage — offers key evidence of Donald Trump’s behavior as investigators sought the return of classified material.

The witness description and footage described to The Washington Post offer the most direct account to date of Trump’s actions and instructions leading up to the FBI’s Aug. 8 search of the Florida residence and private club, in which agents were looking for evidence of potential crimes including obstruction, destruction of government records or mishandling classified information.

The people familiar with the investigation said agents have gathered witness accounts indicating that, after Trump advisers received a subpoena in May for any classified documents that remained at Mar-a-Lago, Trump told people to move boxes to his residence at the property. That description of events was corroborated by the security-camera footage, which showed people moving the boxes, said the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation.

Spokespeople for the Justice Department and FBI declined to comment.

Trump spokesman Taylor Budowich declined to answer detailed questions for this article. “The Biden administration has weaponized law enforcement and fabricated a Document Hoax in a desperate attempt to retain political power," Budowich said in a statement. “Every other President has been given time and deference regarding the administration of documents, as the President has the ultimate authority to categorize records, and what materials should be classified.”

Budowich accused the Justice Department of a “continued effort to leak misleading and false information to partisan allies in the Fake News,” and said that to do so "is nothing more than dangerous political interference and unequal justice. Simply put, it’s un-American.”

 

[matrixman124]

Quote

Budowich accused the Justice Department of a “continued effort to leak misleading and false information to partisan allies in the Fake News,” and said that to do so "is nothing more than dangerous political interference and unequal justice. Simply put, it’s un-American.”

"My client should be allowed to steal any confidential government documents he wants! It's the American Way!"

[Doom Metal Alchemist]

Quote

“Every other President has been given time and deference regarding the administration of documents, as the President has the ultimate authority to categorize records, and what materials should be classified.”

So is this guy saying that at the time of the raid, on August 8, 2022, Trump was still president? Because I'm preeeeeeeeeeeeetty sure it was Joe Biden.

[Sieg67]

Not raid related but more legal troubles are coming.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-co-founder-of-the-firm-behind-truth-social-says-trump-retaliated-against-another-exec-who-refused-to-gift-some-of-his-shares-to-melania/ar-AA130ovT#image=AA130lwE|2

[katt_goddess]

36 minutes ago, Sieg67 said:

Not raid related but more legal troubles are coming.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/a-co-founder-of-the-firm-behind-truth-social-says-trump-retaliated-against-another-exec-who-refused-to-gift-some-of-his-shares-to-melania/ar-AA130ovT#image=AA130lwE|2

He's got bills to pay and is getting ready to tank Truth Social the second he can't drag more money out of any of this. 

[SwimModSponges]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-maralago-documents-fbi-ruling-b2237341.html

Quote

In their 21-page opinion, the judges said Mr Trump had satisfied none of the requirements that would have to have been met before Judge Cannon could have issued an injunction to block the probe in any way, much less appoint a special master to review evidence seized for a criminal investigation pursuant to a lawful search warrant.

They explained that the arguments put forth by Mr Trump’s legal team would have had them essentially rewrite US criminal law in a way that would have allowed any subject of a criminal investigation to intervene and block the government from using lawfully-obtained evidence against them.

 

[SwimModSponges]

Can't remember what thread Trump’s tax info goes in, but he owes North Korea a lot of money.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-loan-north-korea-daewoo_n_638d77ede4b0214ec980b57c

[Seight]

9 hours ago, SwimModSponges said:

Can't remember what thread Trump’s tax info goes in, but he owes North Korea a lot of money.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-loan-north-korea-daewoo_n_638d77ede4b0214ec980b57c

...wait, the company that made the "not as good as Hyundai or Kia Korean vehicles" Daewoo?!?

[SwimModSponges]

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-save-america-pac-lawyers-classified-documents-1764914

Bribing witnesses. 

Woooooo.

[Jman]

Been a busy day.  The ketchup bottles at Mar-A-Lago are not safe.

[SwimModSponges]

Jesus christ

https://www.phillytrib.com/news/items-with-classified-markings-found-at-trump-storage-unit-in-florida/article_3d8cef26-326b-5daf-9dd0-76570a3305e3.html

Quote

The emails show that GSA and Trump staffers worked together to arrange to ship several pallets of boxes and other items weighing more than 3,000 pounds from Northern Virginia to the Florida storage unit in September 2021.

That's a lot of paperwork. Do we even have any top secret documents left?

[katt_goddess]

1 hour ago, SwimModSponges said:

Jesus christ

https://www.phillytrib.com/news/items-with-classified-markings-found-at-trump-storage-unit-in-florida/article_3d8cef26-326b-5daf-9dd0-76570a3305e3.html

That's a lot of paperwork. Do we even have any top secret documents left?

Nothing safer than a storage unit in Florida. 

Just ask any serial killer with a fridge fetish or the cast of 'Storage Wars' which...has yet to find a body that I know of and that angers me.

[Ginguy]

A storage unit?

Well at least it wasn't a server in a bathroom....

 

[katt_goddess]

21 hours ago, Ginguy said:

A storage unit?

Well at least it wasn't a server in a bathroom....

 

Bad attempt at a flex since Cheet-O deliberately used his own personal phone for government 'work', deleted large chunks of anything and everything, denied those tasked to record his meetings access whenever he felt like it [ including that little closed meeting with Putin right before he went on the air to throw OUR intelligence agencies under the bus in favor of 'he said he didn't do it and that's all that matter' crap ], used encrypted messaging services favored by white supremists, illegal militias, racists, and other 'very special people' in order to NOT have things on the record, and he and his own family used personal servers after all that shitting about personal servers.

And that's just off the top of my head while I burp my way through this weird Pepsi-Cola soda shop impulse buy. 

[SwimOdin]

Those soda-shop drinks aren’t very good. Also, GinGut is thirsting for Hunter’s dick, so cut him a break.

[katt_goddess]

8 hours ago, SwimOdin said:

Those soda-shop drinks aren’t very good. Also, GinGut is thirsting for Hunter’s dick, so cut him a break.

I like a good belch but don't care for the aftertaste of burnt cherry of which there was plenty. 

I'm waiting for the inevitable counter-dick pics from Dumpy Methhead Jr. You know he's just twitching in a corner somewhere because the most famous dick pics [ of this month anyway ] are courtesy of "HUNTER BIDEN'S LAPTOP" . 

[Master-Debater131]

 

 

Havent seen this posted yet, but they have now found two separate batches of Classified documents that Biden apparently took with him after his time as VP was over.

[Sieg67]

Call me when he intentionally hides documents or claims they're his private property when he refuses to relinquish them.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Sieg67

[scoobdog]

7 minutes ago, Sieg67 said:

Call me when he intentionally hides documents or claims they're his private property when he refuses to relinquish them.

They're desperately trying to shift the narrative away from "Trump had all these top secret items because he intended to sell them to all the foreign entities he owes money to."

[Master-Debater131]

6 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

They're desperately trying to shift the narrative away from "Trump had all these top secret items because he intended to sell them to all the foreign entities he owes money to."

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to shift anything. Its a relevant story because of all the other stuff thats out there.

My personal opinion is that these two things are not the same and this appears to be a fairly routine thing. Its very common for this to happen to former Presidents and VPs. Happened to Bush and Obama, it'll happen to Biden again, and whoever the next president is. With how we over classify documents in this country its a near impossibility anymore to not accidentally take something with you. Its what happens when you find that material that matters.

Practically and politically though this massively complicates Garlands decision on what to do with Trump. It probably makes it impossible for him to indict Trump for mishandling classified materials. The appearance of hypocrisy would simply be too glaring for the public to ignore. It doesnt matter that the two cases arent the same, the public will only see one person indicted and another not for the same thing. People wont look into the details or nuances of this, they will simply see two standards at play.

[scoobdog]

The whole thing is mostly a sideshow for Garland.  It has nothing to do with the real crime of inciting an insurrection, and chances are the DOJ won’t investigate beyond who saw those documents.  Like now with Biden, they’re investigating to make sure there wasn’t a security breach.

Common sense says that Trump was infinitely more likely to use those stolen secrets for personal gain than Biden, but short of a full blown case of espionage, the investigation likely does little.  It will ultimately only prove Trump and the Republicans were hypocritical for going after Hillary’s email server, and likely serve as a trap for Republican congresspeople who think they can use this as an opening for going after the DOJ.

[Master-Debater131]

Ive maintained that the odds that Trump was ever indicted for anything was low, and this just pushes it lower. Its going to be extremely difficult to make anything stick to him. Theres no smoking gun that would hold up in court. Politically? Yes, all sorts of smoking guns. Legally? Nothing substantial enough to make it stick.

At some point I expect Garland to put out a statement on a Friday afternoon saying the investigations are over and no charges are coming. Probably before a holiday weekend to really bury it. Itll get picked up on blocks and some places, but for most Americans it will simply vanish.

[Master-Debater131]

 

 

[Master-Debater131]

 

 

This isnt a huge surprise. Classified material was found in an unsecured location. They need to figure out how that happened, what the material is, and if it spread.

It does really complicate things politically for Biden and the DOJ though. I stand by what I said yesterday, this all but guarantees that Trump will not be charged for mishandling classified materials. Either the DOJ charges both of them, or neither gets charged. And with precedent being what it is, theres no charges coming.

[scoobdog]

Why would they waste time charging Trump with mishandling classified documents when they can charge him with inciting an insurrection?

[Master-Debater131]

Because they cant charge him with that either. Theres no smoking gun to prove he did it that will hold up in court. It doesnt matter what public opinion is, or what sort of circumstantial evidence there is, theres not enough hard evidence to make it stick in court.

The end result is either no charges, or he gets charged and acquitted in the end. The dreams of him being perp walked into a jail cell were always nothing more than that, dreams. Mishandling classified materials was one of the best chances they had at convicting him of some crime, and those odds were always small. The single most likely result of all of this has always been a statement from the DOJ saying that the investigation is complete and no charges are forthcoming.

 

[1pooh4u]

1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said:

 

 

This isnt a huge surprise. Classified material was found in an unsecured location. They need to figure out how that happened, what the material is, and if it spread.

It does really complicate things politically for Biden and the DOJ though. I stand by what I said yesterday, this all but guarantees that Trump will not be charged for mishandling classified materials. Either the DOJ charges both of them, or neither gets charged. And with precedent being what it is, theres no charges coming.

No because these cases aren’t remotely the same.  Doesn’t mean don’t investigate but Trump knowingly and willfully took classified documents and refused to return them and lied about it for almost a year

in this case were they not found locked in a closet?  No one even knew they existed and when they were discovered they were reported. 
 

saying you can’t charge Trump for doing a willful and obstructive act because they can’t charge Biden for an unknowing act is ridiculous. The only thing these incidents have in common are the words “classified documents were found” after that the similarities end

but like I said that doesn’t mean don’t investigate what happened 

[Master-Debater131]

6 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

No because these cases aren’t remotely the same.  Doesn’t mean don’t investigate but Trump knowingly and willfully took classified documents and refused to return them and lied about it for almost a year

in this case were they not found locked in his attorney’s closet?  No one even knew they existed and when they were discovered they were reported. 
 

saying you can’t charge Trump for doing a willful and obstructive act because they can’t charge Biden for an unknowing act is ridiculous. The only thing these incidents have in common are the words “classified documents were found” after that the similarities end

but like I said that doesn’t mean don’t investigate what happened 

It doesnt matter that they are different. All most people would hear is Trump was charged with mishandling classified documents and Biden wasnt. People who pay attention would recognize the difference, but the vast majority of people dont dig into details and read past headlines.

It sounds like they have found material in 3 separate places now. His library, garage, and some other place in his home. So the odds that they find more is probably fairly high.

Im not disagreeing with you on the differences between the cases. Im just pointing out that if they charge Trump but dont charge Biden the appearance of hypocrisy will simply be overwhelming. Its not something that the DoJ could survive.

[1pooh4u]

8 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

It doesnt matter that they are different. All most people would hear is Trump was charged with mishandling classified documents and Biden wasnt. People who pay attention would recognize the difference, but the vast majority of people dont dig into details and read past headlines.

It sounds like they have found material in 3 separate places now. His library, garage, and some other place in his home. So the odds that they find more is probably fairly high.

Im not disagreeing with you on the differences between the cases. Im just pointing out that if they charge Trump but dont charge Biden the appearance of hypocrisy will simply be overwhelming. Its not something that the DoJ could survive.

But there’s no hypocrisy the cases aren’t the same and we don’t let criminals go free, or falsely charge people because lay people don’t understand the law, or care about the obvious and glaring differences. 
 

it’s being investigated so they can’t even say it’s being handled differently on that level despite the fact when the documents were discovered they were reported and even with these new discoveries the number of documents Trump intentionally had compared to the ones Biden had unintentionally matters too

they need to investigate why it’s so easy to leave the WH with classified documents. I bet if every living potus and VPOTUS was asked to search all their properties rn they’d all find classified documents at this point 😆

[scoobdog]

1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Because they cant charge him with that either. Theres no smoking gun to prove he did it that will hold up in court. It doesnt matter what public opinion is, or what sort of circumstantial evidence there is, theres not enough hard evidence to make it stick in court.

The end result is either no charges, or he gets charged and acquitted in the end. The dreams of him being perp walked into a jail cell were always nothing more than that, dreams. Mishandling classified materials was one of the best chances they had at convicting him of some crime, and those odds were always small. The single most likely result of all of this has always been a statement from the DOJ saying that the investigation is complete and no charges are forthcoming.

 

Oh I think they can.  The point here is that you investigate what is of consequence, not just what breaks rules.  That's not to say you don't charge people for breaking rules, just that you don't lose sight of what those rules represent.  In this case, you investigate who saw those documents and what they did with them because the rules exist to protect the country from the wrong people getting access to those documents, the right people using those documents for the wrong reasons, and/or the documents themselves exposing other entities to harm.  This comparison of whether Biden or Trump would ever be charged is patently absurd in the absence of any actual evidence to suggest that either man willfully or even negligently held on to the documents.  (Edit:  Pooh is right.  There is at least some evidence that Trump intentionally kept documents, but that doesn't mean he intended to sell them or show them to people for nefarious purposes) It's not about optics, which is the entirety of your argument, and, yes, it very much matters.

Also, what do you mean about there being no "smoking gun?"  Assaulting a secret service agent to get to the Capitol in what was already known to be volatile situation?  Him not ordering the National Guard to do anything even after the situation is known to have been a riot?  THE FACT HE OPENLY TOLD HIS VICE PRESIDENT TO BREAK THE LAW IN ORDER TO HAND HIM AN UNDESERVED VICTORY?  Are you just in denial about the fact that this episode of the mishandled documents is covering for clear evidence of a far more serious transgression?

Edited January 12, 2023 by scoobdog
See parenthetical edit.

[Master-Debater131]

10 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

But there’s no hypocrisy the cases aren’t the same and we don’t let criminals go free, or falsely charge people because lay people don’t understand the law, or care about the obvious and glaring differences. 
 

it’s being investigated so they can’t even say it’s being handled differently on that level despite the fact when the documents were discovered they were reported and even with these new discoveries the number of documents Trump intentionally had compared to the ones Biden had unintentionally matters too

they need to investigate why it’s so easy to leave the WH with classified documents. I bet if every living potus and VPOTUS was asked to search all their properties rn they’d all find classified documents at this point 😆

Welllllllll I hate to break it to you but criminals go free all the time if they have the right connections.

We dont know what the investigation will show, but the results will be no charges. No way is Biden charged for something that happens to literally every former Pres/VP.

I totally agree on finding why its so easy for materials to move like this. It happens to all former Presidents and VPs, why? usually its just a case of an intern throwing documents into a box and walking out the door. That raises its own questions, but isnt nefarious. Theres also the problem where a document becomes classified after they leave and have no way to know. The entire classification system needs an overhaul.

[Master-Debater131]

19 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Oh I think they can.  The point here is that you investigate what is of consequence, not just what breaks rules.  That's not to say you don't charge people for breaking rules, just that you don't lose sight of what those rules represent.  In this case, you investigate who saw those documents and what they did with them because the rules exist to protect the country from the wrong people getting access to those documents, the right people using those documents for the wrong reasons, and/or the documents themselves exposing other entities to harm.  This comparison of whether Biden or Trump would ever be charged is patently absurd in the absence of any actual evidence to suggest that either man willfully or even negligently held on to the documents.  It's not about optics, which is the entirety of your argument, and, yes, it very much matters.

If that was the case then Hillary would have been charged. You can scoff at that all you want, but she set the modern precedent for mishandling classified materials and trying to get around investigators. That's another reason that Trump wont be charged. Nothing ever came of that other than a bunch of political bloviating, and the same will happen here. 10 years from now you, and other Democrats, will basically be doing to Trump what the GOP has been doing to Hillary for years. "But her emails!" "But his Resort!"

As for who sees the documents, thats a problem, and now its a problem that Biden shares with Trump.

 

Hunter claimed to own the house where these documents, he also had his drivers license registered at Bidens house. Thats another complication in this whole mess. Hunter claims to have had access to the house with these materials.

Your claim that optics dont matter also is just flat out wrong. They absolutely do matter. There is zero chance that the DOJ could survive indicting Trump but not Biden. Publicly their support and image would collapse, and politically they would be Target 1 for the GOP. The second the GOP had unified control in DC again (and that will happen at some point) they would either tear down the DOJ or use whatever apparatus exists there to target Democrats. If they do it now while the GOP holds the House then everything they do would be subject to oversight. And the House can make your life miserable if they really want to. This is as much a political matter as a criminal one at this point, and the DOJ knows it.

[rpgamer]

MD's got the brain rot pretty bad, to be thinking charging Trump somehow looks worse than not charging him..

I thought the party was trying to break away from his influence anyway? Wouldn't charging him be actually good for the party?

[scoobdog]

5 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

If that was the case then Hillary would have been charged. You can scoff at that all you want, but she set the modern precedent for mishandling classified materials and trying to get around investigators. That's another reason that Trump wont be charged. Nothing ever came of that other than a bunch of political bloviating, and the same will happen here. 10 years from now you, and other Democrats, will basically be doing to Trump what the GOP has been doing to Hillary for years. "But her emails!" "But his Resort!"

As for who sees the documents, thats a problem, and now its a problem that Biden shares with Trump.

 

Hunter claimed to own the house where these documents, he also had his drivers license registered at Bidens house. Thats another complication in this whole mess. Hunter claims to have had access to the house with these materials.

Your claim that optics dont matter also is just flat out wrong. They absolutely do matter. There is zero chance that the DOJ could survive indicting Trump but not Biden. Publicly their support and image would collapse, and politically they would be Target 1 for the GOP. The second the GOP had unified control in DC again (and that will happen at some point) they would either tear down the DOJ or use whatever apparatus exists there to target Democrats. If they do it now while the GOP holds the House then everything they do would be subject to oversight. And the House can make your life miserable if they really want to. This is as much a political matter as a criminal one at this point, and the DOJ knows it.

Hillary would not have been charged.  The only reason we know the server was there was because it was found there, not because of any potential leaks that came from emails stored on that server.  We also have no indication that Hunter Biden was given or used those documents in any way.

Your obsession with optics is exactly why we have a situation where McCarthy has to cut off his own dick to get the Speakership.  The people who care about optics aren't interested in government, they're interested in playing political football, and they're going to be sorely disappointed when they realize he fumble they recovered isn't going to lead to a touchdown.

[Ginguy]

DoJ has just named Robert Hur as a special counsel to investigate Biden mishandling classified documents by leaving them in an office paid for by the CCP and other locations.

 

 

 

[Master-Debater131]

2 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Hillary would not have been charged.  The only reason we know the server was there was because it was found there, not because of any potential leaks that came from emails stored on that server.  We also have no indication that Hunter Biden was given or used those documents in any way.

Your obsession with optics is exactly why we have a situation where McCarthy has to cut off his own dick to get the Speakership.  The people who care about optics aren't interested in government, they're interested in playing political football, and they're going to be sorely disappointed when they realize he fumble they recovered isn't going to lead to a touchdown.

These are political people in political positions of power. Of course they care about the optics and politics of things. Obama recognized this during his time and he masterfully used it to his benefit. The man was a genius at playing the political game in DC.  Garland is a product of the political machine in DC. Hes playing the political games just like everyone else.

[Raptorpat]

10 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Your obsession with optics

I think it's fair to emphasize optics beyond their on-paper merit, because it's probably true that most of the public doesn't have the bandwidth and/or interest in the actual details behind the merits, and decisions of this caliber do factor in public reception whether they should or shouldn't.

It's super unfortunate but the things that get talked don't attract eyeballs for their nuance.

[scoobdog]

29 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

These are political people in political positions of power. Of course they care about the optics and politics of things….

Yes, in a time of extreme polarization. 

25 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

I think it's fair to emphasize optics beyond their on-paper merit, because it's probably true that most of the public doesn't have the bandwidth and/or interest in the actual details behind the merits, and decisions of this caliber do factor in public reception whether they should or shouldn't.

It's super unfortunate but the things that get talked don't attract eyeballs for their nuance.

That’s not my point.  The optics serve nothing more than to fuel a hyper partisanship that has already hamstrung the government to immobility.  Obviously the point isn’t to ignore the proverbial fire beneath the smoke, and in times where both sides adhere to the same unwritten set of rules of conduct, breaching these rules has its own set of unintended consequences.  But, this is a war of attrition where there is nothing left for either side to lose.