ITN: Israel

[Master-Debater131]

Well, just we needed these days. A major war has apparently broken out. This time between Israel and the terrorists of Hamas.

Hamas has fired more than 5,000 rockets into Israel since their surprise attack yesterday. They have also invaded Israel itself, indiscriminately massacred civilians, and taken hostages.  The videos of the atrocities are sickening. I'm not going to post them, if you want them they are circulating everywhere.

Israel has responded by activating its reserves and declaring War. They are promising retribution.

This is really just the start of something major. Israel is acting in a way it hasnt in decades. Its looking like they are planning for a full scale invasion and occupation of the Gaza Strip. Their goals arent stated yet, but its pretty clear that they arent going to be satisfied until there has been a shift from the status quo. Hamas cannot be allowed to exist in any form after this attack, and Israel has the means to make that happen.

International Responses:

https://news.yahoo.com/factbox-world-reacts-surprise-attack-104247821.html

Liveblog from Times of Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-october-7-2023/

 

[matrixman124]

I can guarantee you that Israel forcibly taking the Gaza Strip is not going to fix anything.

[Master-Debater131]

Guess we're gonna find out

Israel is not fucking around this time.

 

[stilgar]

15 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Guess we're gonna find out

Israel is not fucking around this time.

 

So, how many children are the Israelis gonna blow up this time?

[Icarus27k]

Stop with the wars, humans. 

[1pooh4u]

This is going to end badly. Hamas were kidnapping civilians. Literally grabbing them off the streets.  If Israel is heavy handed when only a few of its citizens are killed I can’t imagine them allowing anyone to live now.  This is the worst thing that could have ever happened 

[Top Gun]

Everyone directly involved on both sides of this shit over there is a complete motherfucking idiot. If you all want to fucking kill each other so bad go out and stand in an empty field and get it over with. Then maybe the few sane people left can take over.

[Master-Debater131]

24 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

This is going to end badly. Hamas were kidnapping civilians. Literally grabbing them off the streets.  If Israel is heavy handed when only a few of its citizens are killed I can’t imagine them allowing anyone to live now.  This is the worst thing that could have ever happened 

I think the only thing that is preventing Israel from simply flattening large stretches of Gaza is those hostages. The second that Hamas does anything to them, it really will be gloves-off.

[DragonSinger]

3 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Well, just we needed these days. A major war has apparently broken out. This time between Israel and the terrorists of Hamas.

Hamas has fired more than 5,000 rockets into Israel since their surprise attack yesterday. They have also invaded Israel itself, indiscriminately massacred civilians, and taken hostages.  The videos of the atrocities are sickening. I'm not going to post them, if you want them they are circulating everywhere.

Israel has responded by activating its reserves and declaring War. They are promising retribution.

This is really just the start of something major. Israel is acting in a way it hasnt in decades. Its looking like they are planning for a full scale invasion and occupation of the Gaza Strip. Their goals arent stated yet, but its pretty clear that they arent going to be satisfied until there has been a shift from the status quo. Hamas cannot be allowed to exist in any form after this attack, and Israel has the means to make that happen.

International Responses:

https://news.yahoo.com/factbox-world-reacts-surprise-attack-104247821.html

Liveblog from Times of Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-october-7-2023/

 

Say you read nothing but right wing propaganda without saying you read nothing but right wing propaganda. The situation has escalated this far because Israel's leadership has been acting like this for over a decade. Netanyahu keeping himself out of prison by practically turning into a dictator with other countries' support is a big contributor to why things have gotten worse.

[1pooh4u]

1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said:

I think the only thing that is preventing Israel from simply flattening large stretches of Gaza is those hostages. The second that Hamas does anything to them, it really will be gloves-off.

Idk if their military or government is going to wait because of hostages at this point.  It’s not like the Israeli government and military has ever dealt with the Palestinians with gloves on.  Hamas uses women children and the elderly as shields and the military still kills them.  I’m not looking forward to any of this. A lot of innocent people are good to die.  Netanyahu doesn’t care and neither does Hamas. 

[MasqueradeOverture]

Nope. 

Not touching this with a 60 ft. pole.

Nah.

[Master-Debater131]

1 hour ago, 1pooh4u said:

Idk if their military or government is going to wait because of hostages at this point.  It’s not like the Israeli government and military has ever dealt with the Palestinians with gloves on.  Hamas uses women children and the elderly as shields and the military still kills them.  I’m not looking forward to any of this. A lot of innocent people are good to die.  Netanyahu doesn’t care and neither does Hamas. 

Yea, this will be the bloodiest war the region has seen in a very long time. The videos of Israel leveling buildings already points to them simply going in with the mindset that they will do whatever it takes to end Hamas once and for all.

[SwimOdin]

I hope there’s another “shot” “chaser” post in this thread. That went well last time.

[discolé monade]

just absolutely the most horrible news this morning.

[Icarus27k]

11 minutes ago, discolé monade said:

just absolutely the most horrible news this morning.

There is no way I'm clicking a link described that way.  

[discolé monade]

no video of that poor woman. 

just the AUS news describing the situation. there is a video of another woman being taken by motor bike while her male companion is led away. 

 

[Icarus27k]

On the top of war and worst things ever, the 1994 Rwandan genocide was one of the worst things that happened. I'm always amazed how we never even noticed it. 1994, when we enjoying our 90s and not paying attention to anything outside of the USA.

[Icarus27k]

I guess my point is human beings have always been evil and genocides happen all the time. 

[Insipid]

1 hour ago, Icarus27k said:

On the top of war and worst things ever, the 1994 Rwandan genocide was one of the worst things that happened. I'm always amazed how we never even noticed it. 1994, when we enjoying our 90s and not paying attention to anything outside of the USA.

Most Americans, or rather almost all Americans, don't even notice how far Rwanda has come since then. The country is now very safe and clean. The people there are trying very hard to secure their children a prospective future and prevent something like the genocide from ever happening again.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Insipid

[Jman]

Checking YouTube this morning over breakfast and Israel literally bought ad space to announce they’ve declared war on Hamas.

[Icarus27k]

 

 

On the other hand, Kurt Cobain died around this time, and that's what we were focused on. 

[1pooh4u]

1 hour ago, Icarus27k said:

I guess my point is human beings have always been evil and genocides happen all the time. 

Shut up. Just say nothing instead of the “oh well humans are always awful” shit you’re doin now while implying that Israel is committing genocide which I’m sure plenty of people here would agree but it’s simply not true. Israel doesn’t go around killing Palestinians just to kill Palestinians.  They don’t waltz into Gaza for no reason. Fuckin people man

[1pooh4u]

9 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Yea, this will be the bloodiest war the region has seen in a very long time. The videos of Israel leveling buildings already points to them simply going in with the mindset that they will do whatever it takes to end Hamas once and for all.

Jfc so many will die because Netanyahu needs a distraction from his corruption and Hamas gave it to them 

[Icarus27k]

14 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

Shut up. Just say nothing instead of the “oh well humans are always awful” shit you’re doin now while implying that Israel is committing genocide which I’m sure plenty of people here would agree but it’s simply not true. Israel doesn’t go around killing Palestinians just to kill Palestinians.  They don’t waltz into Gaza for no reason. Fuckin people man

 

 

I think you misread my words. 

[discolé monade]

19 minutes ago, Icarus27k said:

 

 

On the other hand, Kurt Cobain died around this time, and that's what we were focused on. 

 

some of us were put on stand by.  

*sure it was standby to stanby to wait a while...*

[Master-Debater131]

23 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

Jfc so many will die because Netanyahu needs a distraction from his corruption and Hamas gave it to them 

This was a total gift to Netanyahu. He was really struggling internally and then this. Its their 9/11 and you absolutely will see the same "Rally around the flag" effect as you saw in the US.

[Master-Debater131]

 

But yeah, lets spend all our time worrying about the response from Israel.

[Master-Debater131]

 

Israel isn't messing around. They are fully mobilizing and moving military equipment to its borders in case Iran tries to escalate this through their other puppets in Hezbollah.

[Mix]

 

[Icarus27k]

7 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

 

Israel isn't messing around. They are fully mobilizing and moving military equipment to its borders in case Iran tries to escalate this through their other puppets in Hezbollah.

 

 

You really should not follow those two Twitter accounts. They are notoriously wrong about facts and notoriously self-interested in likes, retweets and followers. I'm sure they monetize it in some way. The world is bad enough without disinformation.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Icarus27k

[Icarus27k]

Hey! Let's solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in just one message board thread! 

The two-state solution is still the goal, right? 

I think Netanyahu and the entire Iranian government will have to disappear for that to happen. Which could happen. Neither are going to last forever.

[discolé monade]

well, the media can stop the 9/11 comparison.

 

...

the rapid response, in case this only made sense in my head. 

 

[Icarus27k]

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say no, that's not the way to go, with the war crimes and the dehumanizing. 

"We've got all of our land back in 48 hours. We've got our Iron Dome air defense to protect us from rockets. We DO have to get our hostages back and may have to do something additional to stop rocket launches. But they're not barbarians. They're just people like us who are twisted with hatred and fanaticism. But still people. Also, invading a densely packed urban area of millions of people sounds hard. Our military may not be capable of doing it. So let's not." 

That's not so hard. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Icarus27k

[Icarus27k]

Edited

Edited October 9, 2023 by Icarus27k

[ghostrek]

Now I i take a mini vacation and fuck a new war starts son of a bitch

[discolé monade]

what does this war, across the globe, in a selected area, have anything to do with your fucking vacation?

[Icarus27k]

The White House has called a lid for today, meaning the president won't be making any public appearances. Understandably the anti-Biden partisan fanatics are attacking Biden for it. But to anyone who pays closes attention to any POTUS knows that things tend to be serious whenever you don't see him. Whenever he's out, giving speeches and attending events, that's when things are calm. 

 

I'm sure it has to do with Israel. 

[ghostrek]

Is it true Hamas is stripping women and parading around naked? 

I heard about it in this video 

but that does constitute a war crime I believe.

[ghostrek]

This is horrible

[ghostrek]

7 hours ago, discolé monade said:

what does this war, across the globe, in a selected area, have anything to do with your fucking vacation?

nothing it did put a weird darkness on my vacation

[ghostrek]

20 hours ago, discolé monade said:

well, the media can stop the 9/11 comparison.

 

...

the rapid response, in case this only made sense in my head. 

 

 when someone from Israeli government says it's their 9/11 it's kind of hard not to make that comparison

[scoobdog]

2 hours ago, ghostrek said:

Is it true Hamas is stripping women and parading around naked? 

I heard about it in this video.

Ghosty, it’s your responsibility to fact check your own sources.  Don’t post videos from suspect sources and expect us to check their validity ourselves:  you don’t add to or further discussion doing that, you only muddy the discussion.

[ghostrek]

3 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Ghosty, it’s your responsibility to fact check your own sources.  Don’t post videos from suspect sources and expect us to check their validity ourselves:  you don’t add to or further discussion doing that, you only muddy the discussion.

Okay

[scoobdog]

32 minutes ago, ghostrek said:

 when someone from Israeli government says it's their 9/11 it's kind of hard not to make that comparison

It’s not a fair comparison.  The US was attacked purely for ideological reasons, while Israel has been in continued conflict with Hamas for 36 years.  That doesn’t mean the attack is any less heinous, just that it doesn’t represent the cultural shift 9/11 did not just for the United States but also the rest of the western nations who allied with us.

[André Toulon]

2 hours ago, ghostrek said:

nothing it did put a weird darkness on my vacation

⚰️

[Insipid]

Poor ghostie. I'll just say that he has nowhere near the shittiest take on the situation.

[scoobdog]

2 hours ago, Insipid said:

Poor ghostie. I'll just say that he has nowhere near the shittiest take on the situation.

He doesn't really have a take.

Edited October 10, 2023 by scoobdog
Downvote it all you want, bro. His take is it fucked up his vacation.

[discolé monade]

15 hours ago, ghostrek said:

nothing it did put a weird darkness on my vacation

why though? do you have family over there? was YOUR vacation along the gaza strip?

something about your statement is REALLY rubbing me the wrong way. 

and how you never fact check your shit. 

this schtick. ugh...i like it when you drop it, and just act like you have some sense about you. 

[ghostrek]

1 hour ago, discolé monade said:

why though? do you have family over there? was YOUR vacation along the gaza strip?

something about your statement is REALLY rubbing me the wrong way. 

and how you never fact check your shit. 

this schtick. ugh...i like it when you drop it, and just act like you have some sense about you. 

no was a subject of conversational a lot? But it was just a negative thing in the air You forget I grew up  around evangelical Christian?

Like a lot of those people every time Israel goes to war start screaming it's the end times.  @discolé monade  i'm not joking

[DragonSinger]

I think the 9/11 comparison can be made because of Netanyahu's complacency. He was warned multiple times about how his movements in the West Bank would endanger his people, but he didn't care. I support Palestinians defending themselves, but Hamas clearly does not and hasn't given a shit about the people and completely disregards the consequences of their actions and how many will be slaughtered in the aftermath. The plan as it was put together and the training needed for this, reeks of interference from a third party(probably Iran) who doesn't care about how many die on either side. No exit plan and the spread of paranoia of Palestinians as sleeper agents. Jesus fucking Christ.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-israel-was-duped-hamas-planned-devastating-assault-2023-10-08/

"Oct 9 (Reuters) - A careful campaign of deception ensured Israel was caught off guard when the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas launched its devastating attack, enabling a force using bulldozers, hang gliders and motorbikes to take on the Middle East's most powerful army.

Saturday's assault, the worst breach in Israel's defences since Arab armies waged war in 1973, followed two years of subterfuge by Hamas that involved keeping its military plans under wraps and convincing Israel it did not want a fight.

While Israel was led to believe it was containing a war-weary Hamas by providing economic incentives to Gazan workers, the group's fighters were being trained and drilled, often in plain sight, a source close to Hamas said.

This source provided many of the details for the account of the attack and its buildup that has been pieced together by Reuters. Three sources within Israel's security establishment, who like others asked not to be identified, also contributed to this account.

"Hamas gave Israel the impression that it was not ready for a fight," said the source close to Hamas, describing plans for the most startling assault since the Yom Kippur War 50 years ago when Egypt and Syria surprised Israel and made it fight for its survival.

"Hamas used an unprecedented intelligence tactic to mislead Israel over the last months, by giving a public impression that it was not willing to go into a fight or confrontation with Israel while preparing for this massive operation," the source said.

Israel concedes it was caught off guard by an attack timed to coincide with the Jewish Sabbath and a religious holiday. Hamas fighters stormed into Israeli towns, killing 700 Israelis and abducting dozens. Israel has killed more than 400 Palestinians in its retaliation on Gaza since then.

"This is our 9/11," said Major Nir Dinar, spokesperson for the Israeli Defence Forces. "They got us."

"They surprised us and they came fast from many spots - both from the air and the ground and the sea."

Osama Hamdan, the Hamas representative in Lebanon, told Reuters the attack showed Palestinians had the will to achieve their goals "regardless of Israel's military power and capabilities."

 

"In one well-publicised hostage taking, fighters abducted party-goers fleeing a rave near the kibbutz of Re'im near Gaza. Social media footage showed dozens of people running through fields and on a road as gunshots were heard.

"How could this party happen this close (to Gaza)?" the Israeli security source said.

The Israeli security source said Israeli troops were below full strength in the south near Gaza because some had been redeployed to the West Bank to protect Israeli settlers following a surge of violence between them and Palestinian militants.

"They (Hamas) exploited that," the source said.

Dennis Ross, a former Middle East negotiator who is now at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, said Israel had been distracted by violence in the West Bank, leading to a "thin, under-prepared presence in the south."