2024 Presidential Elections: the schadenfreude commences

[Icarus27k]

12 hours ago, tsar4 said:

 

 

From 2021 to when Mar-A-Lago got raided, I successfully didn't think about Trump. I look forward to that again. It'll probably happen when he finally goes to prison after sentencing. 

[PenguinBoss]

Pretty sure that's also how these two get women.

[discolé monade]

i think the scary thng that was stated is 'we'll take it by force'

so....are the magaqtips gaining traction again? can we expect to see more jan. 6 play out across the country at state capitals?

i mean, if we're going to to 'civil war', then let's get to it. 

[katt_goddess]

11 minutes ago, discolé monade said:

i think the scary thng that was stated is 'we'll take it by force'

so....are the magaqtips gaining traction again? can we expect to see more jan. 6 play out across the country at state capitals?

i mean, if we're going to to 'civil war', then let's get to it. 

Its the big talk of manlettes who seem to think that they are the only ones on the planet with any ability to 'defend' their 'freedoms'. The reality is that if either one of them thought they'd be so much as pimp slapped by a granny, they'd scream for a security detail and demand the death penalty. 

I'd volunteer as tribute but I'd request wearing a Hazmat suit - shit splatters when you hit it after all.

[PenguinBoss]

Some folks are out here giving the game away.

[Jman]

The key to pushing climate friendly policies is apparently to credit them to people the chuds won’t want to kill.

[Raptorpat]

I saw that article this morning and almost shared those exact three paragraphs

[André Toulon]

Go Sooners

[Seight]

4 hours ago, André Toulon said:

Go Sooners

[1pooh4u]

Why did he bury her there, again?  There has to be some reason. was it  to pee on her grave every now and then?

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-ex-wife-ivana-grave-overgrown-mess-of-weeds-2023-8?amp

[discolé monade]

33 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

Why did he bury her there, again?  There has to be some reason. was it  to pee on her grave every now and then?

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-ex-wife-ivana-grave-overgrown-mess-of-weeds-2023-8?amp

apparently tax breaks, and to bury evidence. 

and she died from blunt force trauma to her torso? how? if she fell down the stairs...i mean, wouldn't it be a neck snap? just curious. 

[Raptorpat]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:02 PM, Master-Debater131 said:

Biden is historically unpopular and his policies do not have broad public support. 

I don't really agree. The problem is the lack of branding, not that the individual policies are broadly unpopular. 

When everything has at least a two-year lead in and is all wrapped into mega omnibus spending bills because that's the only way around the filibuster, the opposition is apparently the only side who knows how to brand.

Like if you break down the IRA or CHIPS or infrastructure or COVID relief or  whatever major landmark Biden keystones into their component parts, it's more often than not probably popular stuff (whether universally popular or just popular amongst relevant constituencies varies from policy to policy).

But they are just completely incapable of marketing any of it on one hand, not sure if that's just because of the abstractness due to the lead in time or even if it took effect the day of. And on the other hand you've got the "it was a great idea until I was told it was a Biden program" people.

[Master-Debater131]

4 hours ago, Raptorpat said:

I don't really agree. The problem is the lack of branding, not that the individual policies are broadly unpopular. 

When everything has at least a two-year lead in and is all wrapped into mega omnibus spending bills because that's the only way around the filibuster, the opposition is apparently the only side who knows how to brand.

Like if you break down the IRA or CHIPS or infrastructure or COVID relief or  whatever major landmark Biden keystones into their component parts, it's more often than not probably popular stuff (whether universally popular or just popular amongst relevant constituencies varies from policy to policy).

But they are just completely incapable of marketing any of it on one hand, not sure if that's just because of the abstractness due to the lead in time or even if it took effect the day of. And on the other hand you've got the "it was a great idea until I was told it was a Biden program" people.

If you are arguing that its about "messaging" or "branding" then you've already lost. This phenomenon always seems to pop up during Democratic administrations to. Its inversely proportional to how in trouble that Dem is.  The more Dems complain about "messaging", the worse they are doing.

"Hes doing all these great things, but none of those rubes will give him credit for it!" is an all too common propaganda piece that pops up in times like this. The economy is not doing well. Inflation is still high. Real wages and earnings are down. People cant afford to buy homes. All sorts of horrible economic indicators that people feel every day. But no, those don't matter, its the message that matters.

Biden does not lack marketing. The entire media apparatus outside of Fox is marketing for him. The reason that its not sticking is because its not true. From the moment you are exposed to media you are spoon fed how great he and they hope that if they say it enough it will be true. But it isn't. We are daily being asked to either believe a media thats nothing more than a propaganda outfit or our lying eyes. When you go to the grocery store, when you pay rent, when you pay utilities, when you fill up your tank, when you do anything you are constantly bombarded with how bad things are. That's not a lack of marketing, thats reality.

And if the GOP had any sort of sanity left they would realize this, ditch the orange bastard, and roll through '24 to majorities across the board. The only reason Dems aren't in a full blown panic is because the GOP is doing its best to implode. If by some miracle the GOP comes to its senses, or Trump is "unavailable", then any other candidate is going to have a field day with Biden in '24.

[Raptorpat]

It's a consistent argument in Dem administrations (at least the most recent two) because partisan priorities get wrapped up into vague omnibus finance bills and don't take effect for years so they are easy to vilify because their priorities are blocked by the filibuster, and bipartisan priorities still get vilified because the modern political-industrial complex requires it. Are you telling me that if we broke down all the omnibus bills into their component parts instead of referring to the omnibus bills and vague "spending", those component parts wouldn't sell better? Or are you telling me the non-conservative media is already breaking down all the omnibus bills to hawk the component parts but they're not selling? What mainstream media out there is going beyond the general in between talking about Trump indictments and Hunter Biden? Are Republicans taking credit for Biden-funded projects they voted against because it's unpopular? What about the "it's great! oh it's Biden? then it's dogshit" crowd?

I'm not saying he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, which he's practically as old as. I'm simply saying that if his legislative accomplishments were broken down into their component parts (and frankly if you hid the names to counter partisan bias), on the whole they wouldn't be objectively unpopular.

[scoobdog]

5 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

If you are arguing that its about "messaging" or "branding" then you've already lost. This phenomenon always seems to pop up during Democratic administrations to. Its inversely proportional to how in trouble that Dem is.  The more Dems complain about "messaging", the worse they are doing.

"Hes doing all these great things, but none of those rubes will give him credit for it!" is an all too common propaganda piece that pops up in times like this. The economy is not doing well. Inflation is still high. Real wages and earnings are down. People cant afford to buy homes. All sorts of horrible economic indicators that people feel every day. But no, those don't matter, its the message that matters.

Biden does not lack marketing. The entire media apparatus outside of Fox is marketing for him. The reason that its not sticking is because its not true. From the moment you are exposed to media you are spoon fed how great he and they hope that if they say it enough it will be true. But it isn't. We are daily being asked to either believe a media thats nothing more than a propaganda outfit or our lying eyes. When you go to the grocery store, when you pay rent, when you pay utilities, when you fill up your tank, when you do anything you are constantly bombarded with how bad things are. That's not a lack of marketing, thats reality.

And if the GOP had any sort of sanity left they would realize this, ditch the orange bastard, and roll through '24 to majorities across the board. The only reason Dems aren't in a full blown panic is because the GOP is doing its best to implode. If by some miracle the GOP comes to its senses, or Trump is "unavailable", then any other candidate is going to have a field day with Biden in '24.

It pops up during Democratic administrations because certain member of the conservative base are fucking sheep and need to be told things.  Polarization, naturally, brings these things to the fore; they're always there, though, and like you said, they become important when Democrats are doing poorly public opinion.

Objectively speaking, Biden and his administration haven't really pushed a liberal agenda. It's wholly centrist, easily digestible for both sides either because it doesn't really change the status quoa or because it isn't permanent enough to be undone by later administrations, and, with the notable exception of his punt on Afghanistan, designed to require the least amount of effort to get a win.  In a normal timeline, this wouldn't require messaging because it would be innocuous and whatever messaging the Democrats inevitably would need would be more toward the traditional scandals and heresay.  Messaging is always a problem that appears after it's too late to do something about it, again like you said, and the fact that we're talking about is emblematic of how the Republicans have continued to take the lead in shaping the narrative no matter how ridiculous and illogical it might be.  In general, conservatives have always been able to be more aggressive in presenting a worldview because the narrative they present is inevitably simpler:  whatever is not working is a result of overcomplication or attempting to alter the system.  To be blunt, the proverbial town cryer isn't going to call out a the top of his lungs about how housing issues are a result of unchecked property values, lack of a comprehensive system for balancing growth with moderating the existing market, and unwillingness to address property taxes - he's going to cry out that people are lazy and not willing to work to earn enough to pay fair market value for housing.  Conservatism is much easier to blast though a megaphone, and it's arguably why societies are so easily toppled once conservatism is able to fill the void between perception and reality.

Also... the economy is neither doing exceedingly well nor is it doing poorly.  Inflation isn't nearly as high as you would suggest, but prices aren't going to come down that fast.  Wages, in fact, have been able to keep up with cost of living in part because of a labor shortage that persists and has continued to moderate the feared cliff drop.  People can't afford homes because of policies that have nothing to do with the economy.

[PenguinBoss]

Spoiler

 

Tweet about the woman for threats towards Judge Chutkan.

Spoilered because there's a slur in there.

Put here because the threat specifically mentions the 2024 election, but feel free to move to Trump or indictment thread if you think it belongs there.

Edited August 17, 2023 by PenguinBoss

[Poofy]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:23 PM, PenguinBoss said:

  Hide contents

 

Tweet about the woman for threats towards Judge Chutkan.

Spoilered because there's a slur in there.

Put here because the threat specifically mentions the 2024 election, but feel free to move to Trump or indictment thread if you think it belongs there.

thats what they want to charge me with

[André Toulon]

6 minutes ago, Poofy said:

thats what they want to charge me with

Aug 5th? And they were on her door Aug 8th?

Looks like they want her more than you....moving pretty quick with those charges and there's no talk of a noise ordinance or anything. They just knocked and talked to her....weird.

[naraku360]

17 minutes ago, Poofy said:

 

[Poofy]

2 minutes ago, André Toulon said:

Aug 5th? And they were on her door Aug 8th?

Looks like they want her more than you....moving pretty quick with those charges and there's no talk of a noise ordinance or anything. They just knocked and talked to her....weird.

they raided the guy in utah the way they raided me.

And she confessed on the spot apparently. I said I needed a lawyer.

I guess the, uhh, block function isn't working? ... weird

[André Toulon]

2 hours ago, Poofy said:

they raided the guy in utah the way they raided me.

And she confessed on the spot apparently. I said I needed a lawyer.

I guess the, uhh, block function isn't working? ... weird

I already said I unblocked you weeks ago. Once I undid it, I'm not gonna go back and say I did it again....You asked for this, but after this, if you just wanna chat about it....you know where to go, the one place where this conversation even makes sense.

Although I'm sure context will help the people not important enough to know what's going on, I'm not exactly tryna draw too far away from the thread topic.

Edited August 18, 2023 by André Toulon

[Master-Debater131]

https://apnews.com/article/biden-economy-poll-trump-2024-c3fc17ffe3e1a9c865e2f9627ef4bea4

"The poll shows that 23% of Americans say they have a great deal of confidence in Biden’s ability to effectively manage the White House, 31% have some confidence and 45% have hardly any. Despite the fact that Biden has achieved several of his major policy goals, just 16% say they have high confidence in his ability to do that, while 38% say they have some confidence and 44% hardly any.

Few Americans say they think the national economy is doing well: 34% describe it as very or somewhat good. No more than about a third of Americans have called the economy good since 2021."

 

Like I said, the man isn't popular and neither are his policies. He only has a 36% approval on his handling of the economy in a survey where 44% of the respondents are Democrats. He cant even keep his own party together at this point.

If the GOP nominated literally anyone other than Trump they would have an easy path to victory in 24.

[Icarus27k]

1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said:

https://apnews.com/article/biden-economy-poll-trump-2024-c3fc17ffe3e1a9c865e2f9627ef4bea4

"The poll shows that 23% of Americans say they have a great deal of confidence in Biden’s ability to effectively manage the White House, 31% have some confidence and 45% have hardly any. Despite the fact that Biden has achieved several of his major policy goals, just 16% say they have high confidence in his ability to do that, while 38% say they have some confidence and 44% hardly any.

 

 

 

In other words, majorities of Americans (54% and 54%) have confidence in Biden's ability to manage the WH and achieve his policy goals. 

 

I dare say if Biden were to get 54% of votes, he would be reelected. 

[Icarus27k]

I suspect if the GOP nominates someone other than Trump, Trump voters will not vote. 

[Icarus27k]

On the economy, there is a ton of good news that can be cited. Here is just one random one.

 

Seems like a big deal U.S. is now outpacing China in GDP growth. Anyone who has casually been paying attention to geopolitics for the past 25 years would be stunned.

 

 

[naraku360]

26 minutes ago, Icarus27k said:

 

 

In other words, majorities of Americans (54% and 54%) have confidence in Biden's ability to manage the WH and achieve his policy goals. 

 

I dare say if Biden were to get 54% of votes, he would be reelected. 

It sounds scary when basic addition is above your paygrade, though.

[Icarus27k]

Like, I don't think Biden was expecting to be the U.S. president on whose watch U.S. GDP growth surpassed China's, but there it is. 

[Master-Debater131]

Solid reference in the meme. Hes not wrong either. this is going to be Hillary all over again.

 

 

[katt_goddess]

Trumplstiltskin was responsible for 1/4th of the national debt - in 4 years. The economy tanked under his eye due to a pandemic that he wanted to ignore as long as possible thinking that's all it would take. He ripped up trade agreements that had been working just f-ing fine because he 'could deal better' and then promptly got bored and went golfing while crops rotted in the fields. It was his big deal that gave the Taliban everything while Biden had to deal with the fall out of the pull out. His idea of a strong border was to kidnap children as they came over the border and having them disappear because the types of people he prefers working in those conditions are better human traffickers than clerks. He takes zero responsibility for anything he does and can't tell the truth without breaking out in diaper rash. 

He skipped the first debate the first time too, claiming he was going to hold a rally for veterans instead. He kept the money raised and then bitched like a pussy when his numbers tanked claiming it was all rigged against him. As opposed to everyone else got to say something without the toddler tantruming for the cameras. 

I hope he gets the takes-no-shit officer when he's being booked in Atlanta. Secret Service can't interfere with a court officer dealing with a petulant criminal. Too bad fingerprints are taken either through digital scan now or clear reactives - you know he'd leave tiny fingerprints on everything including his face if it was the old standard ink.  

[Icarus27k]

When you look at the GOP candidates for president, do you see one that could get 50% of the popular vote among Americans? I don't.

And that should tell you how the 2024 election is likely to go. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Icarus27k

[Jman]

If Trump gets the nomination, the GOP loses.  Nothing galvanizes everyone quite like Der Trumpenfurher.  The GOP is begging for a boring candidate or to just see Trump get infected with a disease so they can deflate that rallying point for their enemies.

[Icarus27k]

4 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Solid reference in the meme. Hes not wrong either. this is going to be Hillary all over again.

 

 

 

 

I don't get the meaning. Is this a comparison of Trump to Clinton? If so, Clinton participated in all of the Democratic primary debates in 2015-16. So perhaps Trump is worse than Clinton if we are using that as a standard. 

[Seight]

4 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Solid reference in the meme. Hes not wrong either. this is going to be Hillary all over again.

 

 

"Aida" Hutchinson

[Icarus27k]

This Republican presidential candidate is a 9/11 Truther. 

[PenguinBoss]

2 hours ago, Icarus27k said:

 

 

I don't get the meaning. Is this a comparison of Trump to Clinton? If so, Clinton participated in all of the Democratic primary debates in 2015-16. So perhaps Trump is worse than Clinton if we are using that as a standard. 

I took it as thinking the two of them believe they don't really need to try to win the primary/election.

[scoobdog]

4 hours ago, Icarus27k said:

I don't get the meaning. Is this a comparison of Trump to Clinton? If so, Clinton participated in all of the Democratic primary debates in 2015-16. So perhaps Trump is worse than Clinton if we are using that as a standard. 

Most likely she’s referring to the fact Trump famously refused to debate for most of the 2016 presidential election.  It ended up working for him because he could attack his opponents from a distance with little pushback.

[Icarus27k]

I have an acquaintance who believes Trump will NOT be the GOP candidate, and it'll be obvious early on. The logic goes like this: a bunch of GOP caucusgoers or primary voters will say they are going to support Trump but when it actually comes time to vote they will vote for someone else. That is, the polls and assumptions are more pro-Trump than what the results will be. 

[Seight]

34 minutes ago, Icarus27k said:

I have an acquaintance who believes Trump will NOT be the GOP candidate, and it'll be obvious early on. The logic goes like this: a bunch of GOP caucusgoers or primary voters will say they are going to support Trump but when it actually comes time to vote they will vote for someone else. That is, the polls and assumptions are more pro-Trump than what the results will be. 

I'm somewhere between "I have my doubts just based on how crazy these people have been" and "I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT JUST TO SEE HIS RESPONSE"

[Master-Debater131]

So its Debate Day for the GOP. Most of the top candidates will be there. Trump, being the coward that he is, wont be. Or maybe hes busy trying to stay out of jail, either way he wont be there.

DeSantis is going to take center stage tonight and likely is going to take a lot of attacks. The real question is going to be if anyone other than Christie goes after Trump. So far none of the candidates are really going hard at Trump. Thats an odd strategy considering they need to take him out in order to win the nomination. Unless they are counting on him being "busy" and unable to accept the nomination.

Trump himself is releasing a recorded interview with Tucker Carlson tonight on Twitter. Im sure it will score a ton of views and hes going to say that its proof that the debates dont matter. That whole "you can watch it whenever you want, or during commercials" thing wont really matter to him.

Going to be an interesting day for the GOP.

 

[Raptorpat]

Hogan strongly considering a No Labels run

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/third-party-2024-bid-very-likely-former-maryland-gov-larry-hogan-trump/

[Master-Debater131]

 

[Icarus27k]

 

 

[1pooh4u]

That Marianne Williamson is so far behind that Kennedy Clown says a lot about this fuckin country 

[Raptorpat]

https://twitter.com/keithedwards/status/1694523402193711199

[Master-Debater131]

Now that we are a few days removed from the debate, and past the immediate spin, its time to look at how they did.

I dont think there was a clear winner in the debate. Everyone had their moments, and everyone had a moment of weakness as well.

DeSantis probably was the strongest up there because he didnt take the bait from Trump-Light (Vivek) and focused on his record. Thats one of his greatest strengths and something that he needs to focus on. Even when the moderators tried to bring up Trump he avoided the topic and said what so many people are thinking, its time to forget about the orange turd and 2020 and focus on 2024. That was a fantastic line. His whole repeated navy seal thing was cringe though, I doubt we see much more of that.

Vivek was nothing more than Trump-Light. Right down to his mannerisms. He did have a few good moments, but his constant attacking and total failure on the Ukraine question really seemed to turn a lot of people off. The general commentary since the debate is that hes going to fade quickly now.

Christie is partially why hes going to fade. His "chat GPT" comment was probably the zinger of the night and absolutely is going to stick. He clearly was out to do as much damage to Trump as possible. He might have done that as well. Some of his lines were pretty clearly aimed at Trump and got serious applause from the crowd. It was amusing that he got asked a UFO question as well.

Pence had a few great moments as well. When he talked about January 6th he clearly stated that Trump wanted him to violate the constitution and he refused to do so.

Nikki had a few of her own great moments. She really leaned into the "im a woman" thing and identity politics. Thats not a bad thing for her at all. Her foreign policy strengths really showed when she thoroughly beat down Vivek.

 

At the end of the day though Im not sure a whole lot is fundamentally going to change. Trump is still way out ahead in the polls. So unless that changes, or people are just lying to the pollsters, then Trump still is the front runner. Theres probably going to be some changes to everyone elses numbers, but so far Trump has remained pretty stuck where he is. Its pretty depressing to see that to. You saw actual policy debate on the stage without Trump. Something so many conservatives want to get back to having. But the MAGA morons have a death grip on the nomination right now and would rather get crushed in 24 with Trump than win with literally anyone who was on that stage.

[Icarus27k]

I assume the GOP debate was detrimental to Trump because voters got a sense of a Trump-less politics and liked it. No, some X video with Tucker Carlson, who nobody remembers anymore, isn't close to being the same as a televised debate. 

 

Trump is on his way down the toilet, despite how much he tries to act like he's in control. He's going to pretend like he's the sitting president up till he's thrown in prison. He'll continue pretending but no one will hear him after that. 

[Raptorpat]

[katt_goddess]

Ramaswamy stealing all those RFK Jr votes before they can even be made 1% at a time. 

[discolé monade]

1 hour ago, Raptorpat said:

i love that 'someone else' gets a spot. 

see kids; your vote counts!

 

[Seight]

4 hours ago, Raptorpat said:

A mystery box is polling higher than Asa Hutchinson.

Lol, LMAO even.