Conclave is on track to have the funniest Oscar PR run ever

[MasqueradeOverture]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pope-francis-pnuemonia-sepsis-rcna193312

Quote

Pope Francis remains in critical condition after he experienced a severe asthmatic respiratory crisis this morning requiring high-flow oxygen therapy, according to a Vatican update released Saturday.

"The Holy Father's condition continues to be critical, therefore, as explained yesterday, the Pope is not out of danger," the Vatican's statement said.

The Vatican said the prognosis remains "reserved," indicating a cautious outlook as medical teams continue to stabilize his condition."

Edited February 22 by MasqueradeOverture

[Raptorpat]

Not up to date on his condition, but mentions his preparatory decisions.

https://www.politico.eu/article/pope-francis-legacy-death-complex-italy-rome-health/

Quote

ROME — Pope Francis is seriously worried about his health after being hospitalized with severe bronchitis, and is rushing to tie up loose ends ahead of the battle to succeed him.

The pope was admitted to a special ward earlier this month in Gemelli Hospital in Rome with a respiratory infection, and he has since been forced to cancel a number of public appearances.

It’s the latest health crisis for the 88-year-old pontiff, who had part of a lung removed as a young man and has become increasingly fragile in recent years. The Holy See press office has trickled out continuous updates, and on Monday said the pope’s bronchitis had advanced to a “polymicrobial infection” with a “complex clinical picture.”

According to two people familiar with the matter, Francis has been suffering from intense pain and has privately expressed certainty he won’t make it this time. On Sunday, doctors at Gemelli distressed the pope by barring him from delivering his regular morning Angelus sermon, which he has rarely missed, even when hospitalized, said one of the people and a third person. He is now acting entirely on “doctors’ orders,” said one of them. 

The pope initially resisted going to hospital but was told in no uncertain terms that he was at risk of dying if he stayed in his room in the Vatican, the second person added.

As his health has deteriorated over the last month, Francis has also moved to complete key initiatives and appoint sympathetic figures to key posts, following a progressive-tinted papacy marked by bitter ideological divisions. 

Since he became pope in 2013, Francis has aimed to make the Church more inclusive, opening up key roles to women and LGBT+ people. While that has provoked furious reaction from many conservatives, liberals complain that the reforms have been insufficient. Meanwhile, the pope’s efforts to put an end to rampant child abuse by clerics have produced mixed results.

Papal succession will be political
On Feb. 6, before he was hospitalized, he extended the term of the Italian cardinal Giovanni Battista Re as dean of the College of Cardinals, a role that will oversee some preparations for a potential conclave, the secretive gathering that determines the selection of a new pope. The move, which controversially sidestepped a scheduled vote on the next dean by top cardinals, was intended to ensure that the process plays out according to Francis’s wishes, the people said. 

Re, a longtime Vatican operator, is too old to participate in the conclave himself. Nevertheless, he will be a pivotal figure in the behind-closed-doors discussions that often take place before the conclave. That Francis selected him as dean instead of a younger candidate suggests he wanted to keep a friendly face in the role who would defend his legacy, said one of the people.

“The run-up to the conclave is more important as that’s where lobbying goes on,” the person said.

Ahead of the 2013 conclave that elected him pope, Francis himself reportedly benefitted from the influence of a group of cardinals who were too old to participate in the proceedings but nevertheless held sway over the outcome.

Re’s continuation in the role will also see him deliver funeral rites for Francis should he die. The pope has privately joked that Re will be “kinder” to him than other candidates, a second person added.

The Holy See’s press office declined to comment.

Before his health took a turn for the worse, Francis was navigating a politically sensitive moment. Earlier this month, he issued an extraordinary rebuke of United States Vice President JD Vance’s characterization of Ordo Amoris, a theological concept relating to love that Vance used to justify President Donald Trump’s migrant policy. The papal pushback triggered fury from the White House, raising the prospect of a highly politicized succession battle should Francis die.

“They’ve already influenced European politics, they’d have no problem influencing the conclave,” said one close observer of Vatican politics, referring to the Trump administration. “They might be looking for someone less confrontational.”

On Saturday, the pontiff also sped up his unprecedented reformist move to appoint a nun, Sister Raffaella Petrini, as the next and first woman governor of Vatican City, announcing that Petrini’s term would begin on March 1. That date was earlier than some expected and triggered unease about his health among allies, according to one high-ranking Church official. However, it might also have been a coincidence: the current governor, Cardinal Fernando Vérgez Alzaga, will turn 80 that day, making him ineligible for the role.

Even if Francis survives his latest illness, observers see this as a likely turning point as Francis shifts focus from making headway on reform to locking it in.

“He may not die now but of course he eventually will,” said one Vatican official. “We all die — and he’s an 88-year-old man with lung problems.”

 

[Master-Debater131]

Sure sounds like hes on his way to meet his boss.

 

How long has it been since this happened? Like 10 years right?

[1pooh4u]

 

2 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Sure sounds like hes on his way to meet his boss.

 

How long has it been since this happened? Like 10 years right?

12 years this pope became pope in 2013

[Master-Debater131]

43 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

 

12 years this pope became pope in 2013

12? Really? I swear it wasnt that long ago.

Time is broken.

[1pooh4u]

36 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

12? Really? I swear it wasnt that long ago.

Time is broken.

Yeah. I just was tellin my other half it felt like less than 5 years ago 😆 idk it seems like when I was coming up pope John Paul II was Pope for like from the time I started having memories up until college and then 2 Popes really fast now 😆

[Raptorpat]

pretty sure when he was elected it was intended as a "caretaker" to keep the seat warm for a couple years before the next long-term pope, because he was already so old and had the health issues

[Master-Debater131]

45 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

Yeah. I just was tellin my other half it felt like less than 5 years ago 😆 idk it seems like when I was coming up pope John Paul II was Pope for like from the time I started having memories up until college and then 2 Popes really fast now 😆

I can think of 3 popes. JP2, then the guy who looked like Emperor Palpatine, then this one. Im not Catholic so I dont really pay attention to it that closely though.

Maybe this time they should pick someone who isnt basically with a foot in the door of heaven.

[MasqueradeOverture]

26 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

pretty sure when he was elected it was intended as a "caretaker" to keep the seat warm for a couple years before the next long-term pope, because he was already so old and had the health issues

That was the Sith Pope (Benedict).

Most popes are seniors when elected sans Jude Law

[Raptorpat]

Maybe? I thought it was Francis because of the whole pope palpatine resigning making everything weird

[SwimOdin]

I’m hoping for a Young Pope/New Pope scenario myself 

[André Toulon]

Luigi Mangione?

[MasqueradeOverture]

[1pooh4u]

He’s going down. Double pneumonia and signs of kidney failure. Hopefully the next pope is someone Trump really hates. Someone even more “progressive” than the current one. I put it in quotes because he’s progressive for a pope. Not the rest of the population 

[scoobdog]

2 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

He’s going down. Double pneumonia and signs of kidney failure. Hopefully the next pope is someone Trump really hates. Someone even more “progressive” than the current one. I put it in quotes because he’s progressive for a pope. Not the rest of the population 

As modestly liberal as Francis has been, he’s been getting almost unrelenting blowback for basically not being a sanctimonious twat.  I don’t really see how a more liberal pope is possible, which is depressing to say the least.

[1pooh4u]

10 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

As modestly liberal as Francis has been, he’s been getting almost unrelenting blowback for basically not being a sanctimonious twat.  I don’t really see how a more liberal pope is possible, which is depressing to say the least.

On a pope scale of progressiveness, I would say he was more than modestly liberal, but point taken. I wonder how much it will cost Elon to buy a pope. Back in the day the pope wasn’t even ever necessarily a priest. They were like the King of Kings of Christian countries.  Some nut job somewhere might try going back to those days. 

[MasqueradeOverture]

The only massive shakeup to take the church out of the Dark Ages would be Luis Antonio Tagle but there's as much of a chance of that happening as

Spoiler

the hermie

in Conclave becoming pope.

Edited February 24 by MasqueradeOverture

[scoobdog]

3 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

On a pope scale of progressiveness, I would say he was more than modestly liberal, but point taken. I wonder how much it will cost Elon to buy a pope. Back in the day the pope wasn’t even ever necessarily a priest. They were like the King of Kings of Christian countries.  Some nut job somewhere might try going back to those days. 

Medieval popes were actually pope/princes, something that was stamped out with the unification of Italy.  We’re not going back to that thanks to the demise of feudalism and the resulting disenfranchisement of lesser nobility.  A bigger danger is the rise of a heretical pope:  ironically, there’s a greater chance of a chief cleric who’s ultra orthodoxy is destructive to canon and, consequently church structure, than a cleric who’s radically progressive.

Francis isn’t really doing anything special.  He was tasked with rebuilding a church devastated by the pedophilia scandal, and that always meant expanding inclusion.  Gay people aren’t going to disappear, poverty and migration (the two most central themes in Jesus’ teachings) are at all time highs,  and women hold more power and influence than at any other time in history.  Through all that and despite two millennia worth of ecumenical precedent, church liturgy has very little to say about against these issues, so Francis only needed to do incremental revisions to the teachings to make a huge difference.  I say he’s modestly liberal because two hot button issues in modernizing the Christian faith, namely abortion and women in the clergy, had virtually no headway despite the fact the Gospel doesn’t mention the former and there is copious examples of holy women showing leadership in the same.

it speaks how to what would traditionally be heresy has become mainstream in the greater Christian community.  In particular, singling out migrants openly flaunts Jesus’ teachings (and to a certain extent Judaic teachings as well), yet there is a strong presence of nationalism within Baptist congregations.  Troublingly, there are signs of that nationalism showing up in the more conservative cults within the Roman Catholic congregation, particularly when it comes to abortion and women’s rights.  It suggests that any new schism that might appear in the next conclave will be between a moderate faction and an ultra conservative faction that would “heretically” interpret the Gospel in an exclusive way.