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2024 Presidential Elections: the schadenfreude commences


NewBluntsworth

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30 minutes ago, Insipid said:

He told I don't understand, and then he shared with me a wojak that represents Gen Z malaise.

bg,f8f8f8-flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f

And the solution to that, is a 78 year old man?

The math ain’t mathing.

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I'm feeling better today for Harris than I was because there was a list of state polling in Rust Belt states that allayed much of Democrats' anxiety. The anxiety was caused by uncertainty about what was happening. Questions that got answered today were:

Is Harris' slight lead in Michigan real? Or is it a fluke?

What exactly is happening in Wisconsin? What if something bad is happening there?

Is Harris falling behind Trump in Pennsylvania?

All of these were answered in Harris' favor today. Yes, her slight lead in Michigan is real. She also has a slight lead in Wisconsin which we didn't know because of the lack of quality polling. No, she is not falling behind in Pennsylvania, but rather it's tied there. Dems need to focus their attention on GOTV there. 

 

We narrowed the window of possibilities from "she could be losing all three or she could be winning all three" to "she's winning two of them and one of them is tied; we focus on that tied one". 

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Polls of MI, WI and PA that were published today:

CNN/SSRS, Marquette University Law School, Qunnipiac University, Fox News, Suffolk University, Susquehanna Polling, Monmouth University, YouGov.

 

It was a lot of material. 

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2 hours ago, SwimOdin said:

Nope, can’t read it, it’s too real.

Politics becomes more bearable when you only listen to it and pretend every conservative is a sock puppet with googly eyes whenever you hear their voices.

Edited by naraku360
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15 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Wait, you dont get a sticker with your ballot?  When we get our mail in ballots it comes with an "I voted" bewb sticker.

 

Also, WTF is a corporation commissioner? We're voting on CEOs now?

Nope. No stickers. I asked the lady that notarized it about them and she didn't have any either.  @scoobdog I did not see that you asked the same question

https://oklahoma.gov/occ.html

They're supposed to monitor all The State's utility companies and keep them in check

Edited by molarbear
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11 hours ago, Blackrose321 said:

Absolutely, a lot of people are struggling these days, including these men. I hope I didn't sound unconcerned or unfeeling, because I do care, I just also worry about the motive behind voting for Trump. I suppose you could boil some amount of it down to disinformation - they have no reason to think Trump will help them but if they only tune into Fox News, they wouldn't know that. Although you would think that a rich nepo baby who owes his workers millions of dollars, ran a fake university and still benefitted from free PPP money would give them pause...

Since it doesn't, since they forgive him for these actions, I worry that while they are feeling overwhelmed and often don't know any better, their decision to vote for Trump isn't purely economic - that it is also an attack on equality because they aren't voting for one bigoted candidate, they are voting for two. And Vance is, imo, worse because he truly believes his own bullshit. Trump is just trying to stay out of jail and off of Putin's list.

Dr. Ibram X. Kendi said you cannot be neutral on racism and I think that makes sense for any -ism. So even for those men who would claim they are voting only for economic reasons, what does that say about them? Can you really be neutral on the suffering and subjugation of other humans? They are kind of going out of their way to let it happen too because, as I said, they easily forgive Trump's many cons and schemes which isn't in their favor. They do so because they seem to like the messaging - you are special, you are important, everyone else is the problem.

Ultimately, I agree with you that "Trump is an unfortunate byproduct of the end stages of toxic masculinity." I saw a documentary about the 19th Amendment a while back, can't recall what it was titled, but I remember it being said that fighting for progress is always met with an equal, or bigger, push against it - the MAGA culture war is that pushback, and it was kicked off by outrage over a black man becoming President. There's really only so much you can probably do with those people.

This is more about social dynamics, and how there are necessarily some groups that become disenfranchised when the power structure evolves.  People vote for Trump because they don't fit and they are incapable of adapting; the man himself is entirely irrelevant.

One thing that persistently has bothered me is the perception that our economy is failing, despite most economists agreeing that it's been not only remarkably stable but unusually resilient following COVID and the eventually reawakening of inflation.  Overlay that onto the shift rightward of young males, and I think there's a good chance there's a correlation.  For most of us, financials are real time.  I look at expenditures and revenue streams as a regular part of my job.  Most people my age and older or slightly younger have a direct connection to the various costs that define our existence, regardless of revenue, because there is no safety net if we fail.  Much younger people exist initially in a state of suspended economic security - they don't have full access to living wage jobs and they don't have a personal support network that can sustain them financially.  They need social norms as a structure to support themselves while they develop these skills.  For better or worse, a despot like Trump gets his powers by maintaining a rigid conservative social structure, so he's a natural choice for young men who don't have to deal with the ramifications of conservative values and aren't self sufficient like older males.  Similarly, the subtext of the typical gripes about the economy center on a pessimistic future.  It's somewhat incongruous to say that the complaint about future in eggs, milk, meat and produce are rooted in the past, but that's because they involve a past that is a dead end.  The sour economic outlook firmly roots itself to changes in lifestyle, so the notion that Mr. X is paying more for a gallon of milk, a staple of just about every diet, is actually a covert complaint about sacrifices in other parts of one's daily life are necessitated by these cost increases.

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3 hours ago, molarbear said:

Nope. No stickers. I asked the lady that notarized it about them and she didn't have any either.  @scoobdog I did not see that you asked the same question

https://oklahoma.gov/occ.html

They're supposed to monitor all The State's utility companies and keep them in check

The honest to goodness truth is I don't know who is even right for this job. I'm on full electric so ONG isn't on my radar, but OG&E think they're slick with these tiny increases. I visit their site and check my energy archives from time to time. I should probably do it again soon but this summer, my bills were eclipsing $160....back in 2018, my summer bills were always around $100-$120.

 

And I see they are pushing this "flat rate bill bullshit where they average out your energy usage and pay that every month despite what you use...but I can potentially be gone for a week at any time and I turn EVERYTHING off, it don't even leave outside lights or a lamp on to make it look like someone is home. Fuck electric bills.

And as soon as I find an alternative to Sparklight, their ass is toast too. My bill has gone up twice this year and it's not like the service is stellar.

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3 hours ago, scoobdog said:

This is more about social dynamics, and how there are necessarily some groups that become disenfranchised when the power structure evolves.  People vote for Trump because they don't fit and they are incapable of adapting; the man himself is entirely irrelevant.

One thing that persistently has bothered me is the perception that our economy is failing, despite most economists agreeing that it's been not only remarkably stable but unusually resilient following COVID and the eventually reawakening of inflation.  Overlay that onto the shift rightward of young males, and I think there's a good chance there's a correlation.  For most of us, financials are real time.  I look at expenditures and revenue streams as a regular part of my job.  Most people my age and older or slightly younger have a direct connection to the various costs that define our existence, regardless of revenue, because there is no safety net if we fail.  Much younger people exist initially in a state of suspended economic security - they don't have full access to living wage jobs and they don't have a personal support network that can sustain them financially.  They need social norms as a structure to support themselves while they develop these skills.  For better or worse, a despot like Trump gets his powers by maintaining a rigid conservative social structure, so he's a natural choice for young men who don't have to deal with the ramifications of conservative values and aren't self sufficient like older males.  Similarly, the subtext of the typical gripes about the economy center on a pessimistic future.  It's somewhat incongruous to say that the complaint about future in eggs, milk, meat and produce are rooted in the past, but that's because they involve a past that is a dead end.  The sour economic outlook firmly roots itself to changes in lifestyle, so the notion that Mr. X is paying more for a gallon of milk, a staple of just about every diet, is actually a covert complaint about sacrifices in other parts of one's daily life are necessitated by these cost increases.

I'm really enjoying our conversation, thanks for taking the time to talk. ❤️

Would you say that these conditions, the truth of which is distorted by Trump, then leads to the troubling acceptance of extremist ideologies so that these men can feel safe? It's so hard for me to understand on a personal level because no matter how frustrated I've felt by people and my circumstances, I've never been able to take that in, even if it would mean having more of a support system for myself. Makes my insides curdle.

Do you have any reading you'd suggest on the topic? You've got a different view from mine and I'd like to expand if you have suggestions.

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3 hours ago, Blackrose321 said:

It's not his fault, Republicans defunded math.

He studied engineering.

I really hate how hyperpartisan this country has become. I made that shit up about the wojak response. I hate Trump and many of his supporters. I'm not gonna let something as shitty and fickle as American politics create a divide between people I care about.

This all reminds me of something my Afghani friend said, and she really hates the Taliban and Islam: There are many good people with bad beliefs and many bad people with good beliefs. Take that as you will.

Edited by Insipid
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39 minutes ago, Insipid said:

He studied engineering.

I really hate how hyperpartisan this country has become. I made that shit up about the wojak response. I hate Trump and many of his supporters. I'm not gonna let something as shitty and fickle as American politics create a divide between people I care about.

This all reminds me of something my Afghani friend said, and she really hates the Taliban and Islam: There are many good people with bad beliefs and many bad people with good beliefs. Take that as you will.

I was just joking, I didn't mean to upset you. I was obviously replying to "the math not mathing" comment that I actually also quoted in said response. I didn't even mention whatever you made up elsewhere.

TIL what Wojak is.

This is honestly a bit ridiculous for you to go off on me about as if I've victimized you or done something awful. I think I've had enough for a while. The speech wasn't necessary but I hope you feel better.

Edited by Blackrose321
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27 minutes ago, Blackrose321 said:

I was just joking, I didn't mean to upset you. I was obviously replying to "the math not mathing" comment that I actually also quoted in said response. I didn't even mention whatever you made up elsewhere.

TIL what Wojak is.

This is honestly a bit ridiculous for you to go off on me about as if I've victimized you or done something awful. I think I've had enough for a while. The speech wasn't necessary but I hope you feel better.

I apologize for being too contentious. Yes, I feel I should do the same. I am already ignoring the polling results. I might as well just ignore it all for a while.

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6 hours ago, Blackrose321 said:

I'm really enjoying our conversation, thanks for taking the time to talk. ❤️

Would you say that these conditions, the truth of which is distorted by Trump, then leads to the troubling acceptance of extremist ideologies so that these men can feel safe? It's so hard for me to understand on a personal level because no matter how frustrated I've felt by people and my circumstances, I've never been able to take that in, even if it would mean having more of a support system for myself. Makes my insides curdle.

Do you have any reading you'd suggest on the topic? You've got a different view from mine and I'd like to expand if you have suggestions.

Unfortunately, most of what I write is entirely my opinion;  If something does spark my imagination I'll usually link it in there as a reference (sort of like a research paper).

Extreme ideologies tend to be deeply planted.  My personal experience with casual racism is that a lot of the latent attitudes that I grew up with are independent from fundamental ideology.  As any heteronormative white person should know, these are latent beliefs, stereotypes that we usually don't annunciate and play very little into our decision making process, we only become aware of through the lens of self reflection on privilege.  It's bigotry regardless of how we come about them, but it's also easy to be aware of once we're looking at ourselves in the proper way.  More importantly, the fact that these exist suggest that we can make good decisions while still holding that latent bigotry and, conversely, that bad decisions stand on their own whether or not they're driven by extremism and the psychosis that entails.

In that sense, Trump being openly bigoted isn't really about making anyone feel safe.  He's really just identifying himself as an agent of chaos; someone that will disrupt social evolution and give these guys the space to be their regressive selves.  It would be a mistake to suggest that these guys might feel safe in that kind of setting, but it would not be understated that he will embolden them.  Where these guys feel safe is entirely dependent on the locale, so Trump winning isn't going to suddenly make a bigoted school  board in California more powerful but it will make it easier for sheriff in rural Alabama to be racist regardless of the consequences.

...

I know most of this isn't much comfort because it involves dealing with people allowing their selfish tendencies to drive decisions that affect you.  Understanding why people act irrationally and how extremism affects us can, nonetheless, help us cope.  Extremists have always existed and their ranks are almost universally filled with people that have deluded themselves as a means of coping.  Misogynists can't be convinced that women aren't the enemy because no manner of support is going to compensate for the fact that they're emotionally and intellectually underdeveloped.  However, there is no indication that we're dealing with more extremists than usual this cycle - the simple truth is that we're dealing with growing pains and as difficult as it seems, we're not on the wrong path.

Between you and me, this election is leaving a pit in my stomach as well. This is absolutely not what I wanted to deal with after having Trump finally thrown out of office in '20.  But I also have faith that the loudest voices don't represent the majority even in a negative outcome, and thatfundamental psychological underpinnings point to growth rather than a collapse.

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1 hour ago, Jman said:

I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, but it will be rough either way.  

 

I like how we're all just kind of watching and waiting. Acting like we always do, but with close eyes on this thing that is happening (election) for any slight movement. 

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12 minutes ago, Belize said:

 

I like how we're all just kind of watching and waiting. Acting like we always do, but with close eyes on this thing that is happening (election) for any slight movement. 

I’m getting more and more scared of the plots, schemes, and potential violence we’re almost definitely heading towards.

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1 hour ago, matrixman124 said:

He definitely shit his pants in fear

bafkreigy6lgugzch44hik26dlnt5ecflvwja736ejevzwjdgv443jx6jvq.jpg

What a cringe fabrication. JD Vance wasn't officially nominated yet as the vice president candidate during the assassination attempt. Nobody knew who the hell he was.

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16 hours ago, molarbear said:

Nope. No stickers. I asked the lady that notarized it about them and she didn't have any either.  @scoobdog I did not see that you asked the same question

https://oklahoma.gov/occ.html

They're supposed to monitor all The State's utility companies and keep them in check

Well WTF?!

Im like 90% sure that getting a sticker is a required process of voting.

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