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2024 Presidential Elections: the schadenfreude commences

NewBluntsworth

By NewBluntsworth
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Raptorpat
Raptorpat

https://x.com/selina_dedalus/status/1817624852276424868

little_girl_lost
little_girl_lost

Trump made his choice, he should have to carry jd vance to term.

GuyBeardmane
GuyBeardmane

Happy to see those two got out to cast their vote.

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1pooh4u Monster Mutant

1pooh4u

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

Baby Musk doesn't understand laws. It's everyone's legal right to not do business with someone they don't want to do business with

Screenshot_20241014-113923.png

I’m reading that the California Coastal Commission is a quasi judicial government agency.  Wouldn’t that mean he might have a case because they’re admitting it’s his spreading of misinformation that is getting in his way of launching off the coast? 

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André Toulon Monster Mutant

André Toulon

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1 hour ago, 1pooh4u said:

I’m reading that the California Coastal Commission is a quasi judicial government agency.  Wouldn’t that mean he might have a case because they’re admitting it’s his spreading of misinformation that is getting in his way of launching off the coast? 

I'm an idiot and I'm not contesting what you say, but I'm asking why would that be a factor in a case against them for denying his project.

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1pooh4u Monster Mutant

1pooh4u

Posted
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20 minutes ago, André Toulon said:

I'm an idiot and I'm not contesting what you say, but I'm asking why would that be a factor in a case against them for denying his project.

Because the first amendment protects us from government punishments or punitive actions based off things we say. He might get an attorney that can convince a judge that he was denied access to launch his rockets off the coast because of the things he tweeted, not because of any other concerns. A private company can do whatever they like within reason but government has a different standard.   I was reading that in limited circumstances government employers or agencies could deny based off things said or communicated if they can prove that hiring the person would be harmful to the mission of the agency in some way but Musk can get the best lawyers so idk. 

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katt_goddess Monster Mutant

katt_goddess

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

Because the first amendment protects us from government punishments or punitive actions based off things we say. He might get an attorney that can convince a judge that he was denied access to launch his rockets off the coast because of the things he tweeted, not because of any other concerns. A private company can do whatever they like within reason but government has a different standard.   I was reading that in limited circumstances government employers or agencies could deny based off things said or communicated if they can prove that hiring the person would be harmful to the mission of the agency in some way but Musk can get the best lawyers so idk. 

There is one little problem with that.

Melon Husk has government contracts and receives money from us the taxpayers for his various 'pursuits'. As such, he is supposed to be held to certain standards and one of them is the whole not supporting an insurrectionist on American soil or inciting violence towards its people.

If he wants to cry about his civilian rights, he'll have to become an actual civilian and cease sucking on the taxpayer's teats. 

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1pooh4u Monster Mutant

1pooh4u

Posted
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22 minutes ago, katt_goddess said:

There is one little problem with that.

Melon Husk has government contracts and receives money from us the taxpayers for his various 'pursuits'. As such, he is supposed to be held to certain standards and one of them is the whole not supporting an insurrectionist on American soil or inciting violence towards its people.

If he wants to cry about his civilian rights, he'll have to become an actual civilian and cease sucking on the taxpayer's teats. 

  being an independent government contractor doesn’t mean you don’t have first amendment rights though. Musk has been spewing bile for years but the pentagon still hires him.  Him not being considered a civilian doesn’t mean he no longer has protection offered to people under the constitution.  

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1pooh4u Monster Mutant

1pooh4u

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You can dislike the man all you like. I know I do, but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have a case this time. This isn’t private companies not advertising on his platform. This is a State quasi judicial government agency openly saying his spread of misinformation is the reason he’s not being allowed to use the coast to launch his rockets. 

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Jman Super Hero

Jman

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

You can dislike the man all you like. I know I do, but that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have a case this time. This isn’t private companies not advertising on his platform. This is a State quasi judicial government agency openly saying his spread of misinformation is the reason he’s not being allowed to use the coast to launch his rockets. 

The state is probably going to argue reputational damage which given how dangerous these launches can be, makes it a public safety concern.

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1pooh4u Monster Mutant

1pooh4u

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Jman said:

The state is probably going to argue reputational damage which given how dangerous these launches can be, makes it a public safety concern.

That’s a good move because there are circumstances where they can hold the things he’s said against him.  
 

out of the 100000000000000000 times he’s claimed his free speech has been violated this might be the only time he’s possibly right. He can afford the best lawyers but he’s pretty dumb for a genius so he’ll probably hire Giuliani 

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Raptorpat Monster Mutant

Raptorpat

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I'd wager the actual case doesn't begin and end at the 1A, the article says the Space Force is seeking to apply military exemptions to SpaceX despite it not being for military purposes and the article goes on to say the commission and the Space Force have been fighting consistently over everything for more than a year.

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katt_goddess Monster Mutant

katt_goddess

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

  being an independent government contractor doesn’t mean you don’t have first amendment rights though. Musk has been spewing bile for years but the pentagon still hires him.  Him not being considered a civilian doesn’t mean he no longer has protection offered to people under the constitution.  

There's some demand that he no longer receive those contracts anymore, especially since he isn't paying taxes on the money he's been funneling from those contracts directly into his 'America PAC'. 

When you work for someone, you are essentially agreeing to certain restrictions. Example, unless you work at Waffle House, you aren't allowed to tell a customer directly to f all the way off. 

You do that in the breakroom with the door shut. <.< >.>

Besides, any MAGAt that is crying about 1A rights being violated is blowing smoke up someone's ass because they don't actually care about 'rights' unless it's them. These are the same people defunding public schools in order to funnel that money to religious for-profit schools, demanding christian bible classes in what's left of those public schools, banning books that they themselves have never and will never read, contemplating loudly about using the military to control any citizen protests that arise [ or as the case around here was, attempting to pass a law saying it was okay to run protesters over ] and banning the use of frickin' pronouns because words. Those are all things covered in 1A too after all. 

Anyway, to lighten things up, the Spirit of Halloween bless you

spirit | Fake Spirit Halloween Costumes | Know Your Meme

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scoobdog Monster Mutant

scoobdog

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

I’m reading that the California Coastal Commission is a quasi judicial government agency.  Wouldn’t that mean he might have a case because they’re admitting it’s his spreading of misinformation that is getting in his way of launching off the coast? 

Well, no, because they’re not denying the permits because of Musk explicitly, although his past flaunting of state directives is taken into account.  The DoD is being denied because they’re attempting to piggyback his launches on their permit.

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Doom Metal Alchemist Monster Mutant

Doom Metal Alchemist

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@1pooh4u I'm not understanding your argument. No one has the "right" to do business with the government, the government can do business with whoever they want to and can deny them for any reason (except possibly protected classes like sex, religion, race, sexual orientation, etc, although I don't know how a whole corporation could qualify to be in any protected or non protected classes of these types). The first amendment does not admonish you from all liability, even from the government. The 1st amendment means you can't be arrested, thrown in jail, fined, be slapped with a misdemeanor or criminal offense, or silenced by the government, etc etc, it has nothing to do with having the privilege to do business with the government. And the government taking away his business contracts is not silencing him. He still has the same "freedom" to say whatever dipshit garbage he always has.

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1pooh4u Monster Mutant

1pooh4u

Posted
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Georgia breaking records with early voting and a GA Judge blocked a rule saying that all paper ballots had to be hand counted in order to certify results. The judge basically was like “no way. Not enough time, money or training to do this and it will cause chaos” so already Trump republicans were trying to delay results, especially if Trump loses GA, and attempting to create doubt about the results. 
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/georgia-judge-blocks-election-rule-requiring-hand-counting-of-ballots/

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Dark_Cloud_Overhead

Posted
Posted
On 10/14/2024 at 8:17 PM, tsar4 said:

"Have mercy...been waitin' on the bus all day!"

image.png.345383093038ef223b85257d0779428b.png

I think what a lot of people, particularly in the media, fail to understand is that the clownish bufoonery of the guy is part of what makes him so appealing to a lot of people. How much of it is real and how much of it is an act I'm not totally sure about, but either way the result is the same. It distracts people and redirects their attention away from just how depraved and malevolent the things he says and is promising to do should he get in power again actually are. Same as how a con man does something flashy or showy with one hand so you don't notice how he's slipping the money out of your wallet with the other.

Folks that are wise to the trick don't fall for it so easily, but there's a lot more -- let's be frank -- foolish, gullible, and just plain stupid -- people out there that do, and the thing is he clearly knows that quite well and has done a really good job at targeting that segment of the population. Sure, when it comes to being a responsible leader, the guy is inept and clueless as can be, but when it comes to appealing to people's worst instincts and tricking folks into buying his BS, make no mistake he's a pro. It's what the guy has been doing his whole life after all.

Also, there's the whole anti-intellectual, anti-expert aspect that the right has embraced that is a part of this in a way I'm really hesitant to bring up, but I honestly believe a lot of his followers would rather have someone like him who's an idiot in charge instead of someone that actually knows what they're doing, because deep down it simply makes them feel better about themselves and their own relative level of intelligence. It's sadly why no matter what he says or does, they're gonna make whatever excuse they have to explain his crap away and stick with him to the end.

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scoobdog Monster Mutant

scoobdog

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I think the bigger issue might be that those that subscribe to the depravity of Trump fall into a class of people who are despairing.  That's not to say they're any more intelligent than their foolish choices suggest, but it differentiates people who are attempting to rationalize Trump and people who are simply viscerally resonating with Trump's anger and resentment.

What people may actually not be getting is that there isn't an explicitly rational justification for Trump ascending to the presidency.  Hitler's rise to power in the Weimar Republic was just as nonsensical as what we've seen out of the Trump campaign and his spineless toadies; it didn't really have the logical component that is often ascribed to it.  German citizens knew from the beginning that Hitler was as inept as he was ferile, having seen the savagery of Kristalnacht and Beer Hall Putsch,  and he was a frequent target of mockery for it.  However, HItler could channel the despair that some of those same citizens were feeling at a time when overall morale was at an all time low.  In particular, he could manipulate the collective wounded pride of the marginalized fringes of the populace - the people that were generally poor and uneducated.  Without detailing a specific psychological profile, demagogs like him and now Trump can typically mobilize people who don't have the emotional and intellectual ability to forecast their own future, people who are despairing because they do not have the means to rectify their own situation and have no vision for a future beyond their immediate needs.

This has started to become more evident as we see the occasional union boss refuse to endorse the traditional union values party or outright disavow an unhinged Trump.  It's not enough to see your way of life ending to effect change; you also have to have to see the path forward.  It creates an environment where those that cannot see that path cling to the tattered remains of their current values instead of transitioning.   We know about the racists, misogynists and bigots that carry Trump's torch.  We don't really know about the blue collar workers, particularly in swing states, that are seeing the demise of their industries, in part because it hard to comprehend when you understand how changes to the steel, mining, or automotive industries represent untapped opportunities that could fill the voids.  Unfortunately, this isn't something an aspiring presidential candidate can compensate for:  you can't give people a sense of imagination and curiosity.

At the same time, there is a still a way to combat this kind of despair, and it has a lot to do with the captains of those industries.  Corporations can promise investing more heavily and openly in emerging sectors, and a lot of this malaise that seems to be holding back swing voters would dissipate.

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scoobdog Monster Mutant

scoobdog

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Raptorpat said:

To be more succinct, his platform represents the politics of white working class aggrievement, and the goal to expand their base beyond that was built around emphasizing male aggrievement generally.

But that’s not entirely true either.  The aggrieved include a substantial number of women as well.

Edit:  look at the last four minutes of this Kimmel clip as an example.

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Raptorpat Monster Mutant

Raptorpat

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, scoobdog said:

But that’s not entirely true either.  The aggrieved include a substantial number of women as well.

Edit:  look at the last four minutes of this Kimmel clip as an example.

I said "white working class aggrievement" which is irrespective of gender, which they wanted to expand to also focus on general male aggrievement as well.

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scoobdog Monster Mutant

scoobdog

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

I said "white working class aggrievement" which is irrespective of gender, which they wanted to expand to also focus on general male aggrievement as well.

It doesn’t have to be “working class,” either.  We’re kind of dancing around an issue that’s intellectual in nature, and framing it in socio-economic, gender, racial, or even ableist terms veers dangerously into stereotypes.

It’s really stupid people aggrievement, and it’s a form of apathy rather than conservative activism.

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Raptorpat Monster Mutant

Raptorpat

Posted
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1 hour ago, scoobdog said:

It doesn’t have to be “working class,” either.  We’re kind of dancing around an issue that’s intellectual in nature, and framing it in socio-economic, gender, racial, or even ableist terms veers dangerously into stereotypes.

It’s really stupid people aggrievement, and it’s a form of apathy rather than conservative activism.

I don't think it's philosophically conservative - it's populism. But I think simply calling it stupid people aggrievement does overshadow what I think are clear socio-economic demographics that the core MAGA platform by-design resonates with.

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scoobdog Monster Mutant

scoobdog

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Raptorpat said:

But I think simply calling it stupid people aggrievement does overshadow what I think are clear socio-economic demographics that the core MAGA platform by-design resonates with.

That’s where we disagree.  I don’t see a clear socioeconomic delineation for Trump’s support.  Part of it is having family that is clearly not working class blindly supporting Trump.  Part of it is an illogical connection between Trump support and the best interest of the purported class that supports him.  You can certainly make a correlation between a group that is likely less educated and Trump support, but rationalization has little to do with economic factors.

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Raptorpat Monster Mutant

Raptorpat

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I don't understand, maybe because it's 1:30am. Polling has consistently shown over the past decade-of-trump that the education gap is the biggest (or maybe second biggest since Dobbs) demographic driver in the overall shift in support between the two parties. The Dems have hemorrhaged people with less than a four-year degree and MAGA has pushed away people with a four year degree or more. This education gap is observable across race, gender, union/non-union etc., though it is obviously most prominent with the white male demographic. That's not to say demographics are destiny (it would be silly so say there are no college graduates supporting Trump or no high school grads supporting Kamala), or that people are sitting to have polite rational conversations about their education/class and which box they belong in. Aggrievement populism doesn't really lend itself to rationalism, the whole idea is they're just mad as hell and want to point the finger at the "other" who is to blame.

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Raptorpat Monster Mutant

Raptorpat

Posted
Posted

This is from a NYTimes/Siena poll this week just as an example of the education gap (which I am using as a proxy for working class/professional-managerial class) overlaid on top of race in the far right column:

image.png

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/10/13/us/elections/times-siena-poll-likely-electorate-crosstabs.html

I saw another one the other day I can't find that also broke it down further by gender and the gap is monumental.

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Doom Metal Alchemist Monster Mutant

Doom Metal Alchemist

Posted
Posted

This may be tangential, and the only evidence I have to support this is my own experience, but I think probably the biggest cause of the education gap is for the majority of college students, college is probably their best opportunity by a large margin to be immersed in so many different people of so many different cultures, races, etc. My childhood through adolescence I was mostly around white people by a large margin, but then I go to college and I'm being taught by teachers from Korea, Taiwan, Africa, and of course natural citizens of America of various races, and that's not even to mention the make up of the student body. Just by being exposed to people of so many different cultures and ethnic groups is basically the best way to learn Muslims aren't terrorists, Mexicans aren't freeloaders, blacks aren't lazy and don't want everything handed to them, etc. By going to college I by first hand experience had hard evidence of these things. Without some kind of life event that gets you out of what may be your lifelong bubble of ethnic separation, it's much easier to believe common stereotypes.

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Insipid Legend

Insipid

Posted
Posted (edited)

There's the troubling trend of young men, who were once predominantly Democrat, becoming more Republican.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna174384

I think there's potential of certain sexist rhetoric worsening under a female president.

Edit: I just wanted to add, I see Kamala being a two-term president. I am worried about the 2032 election.

Edited by Insipid
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Jman Super Hero

Jman

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Insipid said:

There's the troubling trend of young men, who were once predominantly Democrat, becoming more Republican.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna174384

I think there's potential of certain sexist rhetoric worsening under a female president.

Edit: I just wanted to add, I see Kamala being a two-term president. I am worried about the 2032 election.

You mean the same way a two term black president broke the brains of so many?

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