Putin: "Stick to the timeline!"

[Sieg67]

You keep using other events to justify the invasion and the attempted takeover of Ukraine.  Peak whataboutism.
Anybody should be able to see that invading another country to seize it's land, slaughter and rape it's citizens is inexcusable.

Again, nobody here is excusing the wrong other countries may have done.  I think we should have never stepped foot in the Middle East but I also think Putin's actions are despicable.  
His motivation is power.  It's why he assassinate or jails opposition, rigs elections and changed laws to make himself ruler for life.  

He is a horrible person and thinking he's invading Ukraine for their benefit is laughably sad.

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by Sieg67

[Top Gun]

2 hours ago, NewBluntsworth said:

So, did you look into that US-backed coup that you said the other day you didn't know a lot about? 

Yeah I mean that scenario sounds better to me than this endless war and famine that we're seeing bc the US and its friends never saw a war they didn't like. Hundreds of millions of people across the world now at risk of starvation because of this prolonged war. 

I understand it makes tubby white guys in America mad but Kyiv falling early and sparing us all that war and misery and death is a compromise I am willing to live with.

"I am perfectly fine with a democratic state being completely dismantled by an unprovoked aggressor so long as I am not personally inconvenienced."

And Nabs wonders why he gets called a bitch.

[NewBluntsworth]

On 9/25/2022 at 6:36 PM, Top Gun said:

"I am perfectly fine with a democratic state being completely dismantled by an unprovoked aggressor so long as I am not personally inconvenienced."

No, in fact I am not at all fine with America instigating the 2014 coup in Ukraine that kicked off a civil war in the Donbas between Nazi battalions that have since been officially integrated into the Ukrainian military and anti-coup Ukrainian citizens. That coup, along with America's other imperial provocations and material support for the organized Nazi battalions operating in Ukraine, directly led to this war that is ruining life for hundreds of millions of people, as do all of the many wars that the American empire instigates. 

Of course I'm not fine with that, you tubby (fakemod edit)

Edited September 26, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[NewBluntsworth]

https://asiatimes.com/2022/09/did-the-west-bring-war-to-ukraine/

Good article for context on what led to all this. 

[PenguinBoss]

1 hour ago, NewBluntsworth said:

What's the issue here...?

Pointing out the double standard that exists because of the strength of the American empire which is immune to international law and never faces any repercussions for any of its crimes and illegal invasions which have killed countless millions just in the lifespan of all these 50-something year old tubby white Americans clamoring for still more death at the hands of American weapons is...bad, somehow? 

"You're saying that Putin should get away with doing something that America and its allies do all the time, why would you want a peaceful resolution to the war instead of cheerleading our empire as it subjects the region to 'Global Justice, American Style!' Why that's outrageous, it's immoral! ...Me? You're goddamn right I'm rooting for the American war machine in this instance! Why no, of course I'm not an imperialist, I don't think any invasions of sovereign nations should be allowed and I wholeheartedly stand with the American empire in its firm commitment to policing this fake international norm that never applies to itself! World War 3? Nuclear annihilation? Small potatoes when we're trying to enforce some friggin international law over here! My imperial govt and media breathlessly insist that the very concept of national sovereignty is suddenly at stake!!1!!1!!!1!"

That about sum you up? Where'd I miss?

I missed where you're preaching to people that don't already agree? No one here is hootin' and hollerin' about people losing their homes and lives.

[Top Gun]

1 hour ago, NewBluntsworth said:

No, in fact I am not at all fine with America instigating the 2014 coup in Ukraine that kicked off a civil war in the Donbas between Nazi battalions that have since been officially integrated into the Ukrainian military and anti-coup Ukrainian citizens. That coup, along with America's other imperial provocations and material support for the organized Nazi battalions operating in Ukraine, directly led to this war that is ruining life for hundreds of millions of people, as do all of the many wars that the American empire instigates. 

Of course I'm not fine with that, you stupid tubby bitch. 

On behalf of the distant relatives that I probably still have in that corner of the world, ida na khuy.

[katt_goddess]

2 hours ago, Distortedreasoning said:

its not enough! if you call yourself a leftists like stillgar does, you need to be extra critical of foreign policy. pointing fingers at everyone else when our country is involved in most of these messes is hypocritical. 

the ukrainian government does not have the interests of their people at heart. its clear that they are taking orders from nato. this is what happens after a coupe. despite majority of ukranians wanting friendly relations with russia. 

 

 

Dude, there's nothing 'friendly' from Russia right now and there's a big damn difference between having friendly relations with a neighboring country and having that country annex you by blood and fire.

Ukraine mentioned an interest in joining NATO because they had reason to believe Russia was planning shit and Russia immediately cried about no, they weren't planning nuthin' while amassing soldiers on the border claiming they were just doing exercises. Exercises which could have been done along any part of their long border but just so happened to be along the border of a country that was worried about being attacked. They continued to deny they had any intention of doing anything right up until they rushed the border and started burning, bombing and destroying everything in sight. Then it was all about how they were just there to protect the pro-Russian Ukrainians...while proceeding to either kill or 'relocate' everyone they could catch as they moved far beyond any so-called pro-Russian zones to bomb the capital. 

Here's a little fun story about the Russian government's dark actions. Do you know how I got a basic grasp of Russian as a child despite being raised in an environment where English, Norwegian, and Swedish were most likely to be spoken while French Sesame Street played on the tv? A family of 4. A grandma, a mother, and two small girls. That was all that was left of that entire family line. Everyone in their family 'disappeared' . It was American operatives that got the last four members out before Russian agents could finish whatever f-ing task it was that included completely wiping out every trace of them. They were placed with new names in my tiny, shitty hometown in the middle of nowhere Minnesota because literally no one would think to look there. The mother gave lessons in Russian at my school so she could be close to her girls at all times. That was how bad her fear was - it followed her over the ocean to a place where no one would ever find them. Putin was in the KGB when they had to trust foreigners with their lives because their home was no longer safe. Think about this the next time you want to play the 'but Russia just wants to PROTECT Russians in Ukraine!' bit in this thread because Russia definitely doesn't have a really good history of that.  

As for anyone who thinks bringing up Libya is going to win them any points, Libya is currently investigating war crimes by Russian mercenaries. Maybe don't bring up other countries as some sort of gotcha when there's active investigations for the same shit by the same characters being looked into there.  As for Afghanistan? Think Soviet invasion and all the wonderful atrocities that happened then. None of this is a denial of shit America has done [ I think anyone accused of rape in the military should have their junk cut off in public and that's goes for anyone that tries to cover things up ] but this thread is about a Russian invasion of Ukraine.  

[matrixman124]

58 minutes ago, katt_goddess said:

Dude, there's nothing 'friendly' from Russia right now and there's a big damn difference between having friendly relations with a neighboring country and having that country annex you by blood and fire.

Ukraine mentioned an interest in joining NATO because they had reason to believe Russia was planning shit and Russia immediately cried about no, they weren't planning nuthin' while amassing soldiers on the border claiming they were just doing exercises. Exercises which could have been done along any part of their long border but just so happened to be along the border of a country that was worried about being attacked. They continued to deny they had any intention of doing anything right up until they rushed the border and started burning, bombing and destroying everything in sight. Then it was all about how they were just there to protect the pro-Russian Ukrainians...while proceeding to either kill or 'relocate' everyone they could catch as they moved far beyond any so-called pro-Russian zones to bomb the capital. 

Here's a little fun story about the Russian government's dark actions. Do you know how I got a basic grasp of Russian as a child despite being raised in an environment where English, Norwegian, and Swedish were most likely to be spoken while French Sesame Street played on the tv? A family of 4. A grandma, a mother, and two small girls. That was all that was left of that entire family line. Everyone in their family 'disappeared' . It was American operatives that got the last four members out before Russian agents could finish whatever f-ing task it was that included completely wiping out every trace of them. They were placed with new names in my tiny, shitty hometown in the middle of nowhere Minnesota because literally no one would think to look there. The mother gave lessons in Russian at my school so she could be close to her girls at all times. That was how bad her fear was - it followed her over the ocean to a place where no one would ever find them. Putin was in the KGB when they had to trust foreigners with their lives because their home was no longer safe. Think about this the next time you want to play the 'but Russia just wants to PROTECT Russians in Ukraine!' bit in this thread because Russia definitely doesn't have a really good history of that.  

As for anyone who thinks bringing up Libya is going to win them any points, Libya is currently investigating war crimes by Russian mercenaries. Maybe don't bring up other countries as some sort of gotcha when there's active investigations for the same shit by the same characters being looked into there.  As for Afghanistan? Think Soviet invasion and all the wonderful atrocities that happened then. None of this is a denial of shit America has done [ I think anyone accused of rape in the military should have their junk cut off in public and that's goes for anyone that tries to cover things up ] but this thread is about a Russian invasion of Ukraine.  

The issue here is that the arguments being put forth suggest that we are blissfully ignorant or complicit with the many US war crimes and are hypocritically giving the west a pass while wagging our finger at Russia. And it completely ignores that both sides have committed atrocities. 

Yes, the US has staged coups against socialist LATAM leaders. The USSR invaded Afghanistan. We invaded Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

We all universally believe that this is all wrong. Russia had no right and no good reason to invade. Just like the western states had no right. Period.

[scoobdog]

1 hour ago, matrixman124 said:

The issue here is that the arguments being put forth suggest that we are blissfully ignorant or complicit with the many US war crimes and are hypocritically giving the west a pass while wagging our finger at Russia. And it completely ignores that both sides have committed atrocities. 

Yes, the US has staged coups against socialist LATAM leaders. The USSR invaded Afghanistan. We invaded Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

We all universally believe that this is all wrong. Russia had no right and no good reason to invade. Just like the western states had no right. Period.

And we didn’t try to annex any of those countries.  It’s worth noting that every single person here would express the exact same sentiment if we were discussing the US annexing Hawaii.  

[1pooh4u]

6 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

And we didn’t try to annex any of those countries.  It’s worth noting that every single person here would express the exact same sentiment if we were discussing the US annexing Hawaii.  

We straight up stole Hawaii 

[scoobdog]

3 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

We straight up stole Hawaii 

Annexations are thefts without exception.

[1pooh4u]

7 hours ago, scoobdog said:

Annexations are thefts without exception.

Nothing about the US obtaining Hawaii was legal.  It’s not recognized as a US State under international law, but that’s  enough about Hawaii. This is about Russia v Ukraine/US.  
 

US is scumbags but none of what the US and pals did, that can be seen as a provocation, excuses Putin invading the country nor should the world have done an appeasement policy like Britain did with Hitler and Germany in ww2 with Putin. He wasn’t gonna stop with whatever area he was trying to grab. 
 

in any case the US is poking China now in regards to Taiwan. We’re gonna have half the world fighting each other in no time. It’s good for business apparently cuz we keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over

[Master-Debater131]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jake-sullivan-face-the-nation-transcript-09-25-2022/

 

Im not exactly enthused with all the talk about nuclear weapons lately.  It really does seem like something has changed and there is a real fear of Russia using Nukes in Ukraine. With their shame referendum they have this ass-backwards thinking that if Ukraine retakes that territory its an attack on the Russian homeland, which would justify the use of nuclear weapons.

[matrixman124]

5 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jake-sullivan-face-the-nation-transcript-09-25-2022/

 

Im not exactly enthused with all the talk about nuclear weapons lately.  It really does seem like something has changed and there is a real fear of Russia using Nukes in Ukraine. With their shame referendum they have this ass-backwards thinking that if Ukraine retakes that territory its an attack on the Russian homeland, which would justify the use of nuclear weapons.

I still don't think Putin is that dumb.

[Master-Debater131]

30 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

I still don't think Putin is that dumb.

I dont think he is either, but hes also backing himself into a corner. he has staked his entire legacy on a war that he is losing badly. His mobilization effort is causing all sorts of strife within Russia. Its going to fail to turn the tide of war. And its becoming more likely that he will feel he has no option other than to go pure strong-man and display that in any way necessary to cling to power.

 

The sham referendum will absolutely pass and then Russia will claim that as their own territory. Ukraine has a very real chance at retaking all territory lost since the war started, and maybe even back to 2014. Whats going to happen after Ukraine takes their territory back and Russia claims it as theirs?

[matrixman124]

24 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

I dont think he is either, but hes also backing himself into a corner. he has staked his entire legacy on a war that he is losing badly. His mobilization effort is causing all sorts of strife within Russia. Its going to fail to turn the tide of war. And its becoming more likely that he will feel he has no option other than to go pure strong-man and display that in any way necessary to cling to power.

 

The sham referendum will absolutely pass and then Russia will claim that as their own territory. Ukraine has a very real chance at retaking all territory lost since the war started, and maybe even back to 2014. Whats going to happen after Ukraine takes their territory back and Russia claims it as theirs?

Russia won't nuke itself because that is what nuking Ukraine would do lol

[Master-Debater131]

1 hour ago, matrixman124 said:

Russia won't nuke itself because that is what nuking Ukraine would do lol

Maybe.  They also could target another city like Kyiv.

[Master-Debater131]

So Im not going to post the videos, but there are a few circulating today of conscripts apparently shooting their officers. Heres a story about it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/26/russia-man-shoots-commander-drafting-residents-for-war-in-ukraine

This is in addition to a weave of arson attacks against conscription offices.

 

Sureeeee starting to seem like Russians would rather turn on their own than go fight in Ukraine.

[matrixman124]

38 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Maybe.  They also could target another city like Kyiv.

Kyiv is right next to Belarus which is next to Russia. It's the same thing as nuking yourself

[Top Gun]

59 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Sureeeee starting to seem like Russians would rather turn on their own than go fight in Ukraine.

Amazing how much more attention people pay to a war of aggression when they're being expected to get their asses killed in it.

[scoobdog]

9 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

Nothing about the US obtaining Hawaii was legal.  It’s not recognized as a US State under international law, but that’s  enough about Hawaii. This is about Russia v Ukraine/US.  
 

US is scumbags but none of what the US and pals did, that can be seen as a provocation, excuses Putin invading the country nor should the world have done an appeasement policy like Britain did with Hitler and Germany in ww2 with Putin. He wasn’t gonna stop with whatever area he was trying to grab. 
 

in any case the US is poking China now in regards to Taiwan. We’re gonna have half the world fighting each other in no time. It’s good for business apparently cuz we keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over

There is no legal apparatus per see to deem what the United States did as legal or illegal; unlike the ICC which (via UN Charter) is a treaty organization, there isn't an equivalent court where legal state boundaries can be contested.  The comparison has more to do with how Hawaii was annexed and who failed to intervene on it's behalf during the coup d'etat.  If I recall correctly, the Hawaiian monarchy had international standing at the time and attempted to get help from several European monarchies to no avail. That plays a huge part in determining why the United States and NATO have continued to provide military equipment and shine a light on the invasion; the sense that all of the European powers had a general historic knowledge of colonialism and the ramifications of its aftermath.  The US sees the Taiwan / China conflict in similar terms.

[NewBluntsworth]

 

 

Evil empire strikes yet again once more 

[Jman]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/farmers-among-russians-drafted-into-military-putin-says-2022-09-27/?utm_source=reddit.com
 

The Russian draft is becoming increasingly arbitrary as farmers, you know, the people you need for food, are getting draft papers.

[Jman]

Slovakia tells people fleeing the draft they aren’t welcome.

https://spectator.sme.sk/c/23017498/slovakia-will-not-grant-humanitarian-visas-to-russians-fleeing-mobilisation.html

[SwimModSponges]

On 9/23/2022 at 6:32 PM, SwimModSponges said:

Now that's the kind of election security we need in the US.

https://m.jpost.com/international/article-718256

96% of Ukrainians polled want to be part of russia.

[Top Gun]

You'd think if they wanted to pretend to have any shred of credibility they'd come up with a sizeable yet almost believable majority, but they clearly don't give a fuck.

[SwimModSponges]

I'm willing to bet they did legitimately get 96% to vote in favor, what with armed soldiers going door to door to collect votes and whatnot.

[scoobdog]

31 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said:

I'm willing to bet they did legitimately get 96% to vote in favor, what with armed soldiers going door to door to collect votes and whatnot.

I think the word you're looking for is "actually" since legitimate is rather antithetical to your point.

[tsar4]

49 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said:

I'm willing to bet they did legitimately get 96% to vote in favor, what with armed soldiers going door to door to collect votes and whatnot.

96% of the 18% they were successful in coercing into voting.

[Lemming]

57 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

You'd think if they wanted to pretend to have any shred of credibility they'd come up with a sizeable yet almost believable majority, but they clearly don't give a fuck.

I’m so clearly incapable of understanding things on a micro grade scale that I almost totally voted for majority occupation of mainland Ukraine as a calmative or convalescent measure

[tsar4]

Not sure about the Russian business model: 

First we're going to piss a bunch of people off at us by conscripting them into a hot war.

Then we're going to hand them loaded weapons or put them in armed tanks.

[Top Gun]

There's word that they may wind up trying to conscript people in the occupied territories. Like...have they thought this through?

[tsar4]

1 minute ago, Top Gun said:

There's word that they may wind up trying to conscript people in the occupied territories. Like...have they thought this through?

It was in the fine print of the votes they cast to become part of Russia.

[Seight]

18 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

There's word that they may wind up trying to conscript people in the occupied territories. Like...have they thought this through?

1) Use the annexed "citizens" for our war effort

2) ???

3) PROFIT

[Distortedreasoning]

On 9/25/2022 at 4:51 PM, katt_goddess said:

Dude, there's nothing 'friendly' from Russia right now and there's a big damn difference between having friendly relations with a neighboring country and having that country annex you by blood and fire.

Ukraine mentioned an interest in joining NATO because they had reason to believe Russia was planning shit and Russia immediately cried about no, they weren't planning nuthin' while amassing soldiers on the border claiming they were just doing exercises. Exercises which could have been done along any part of their long border but just so happened to be along the border of a country that was worried about being attacked. They continued to deny they had any intention of doing anything right up until they rushed the border and started burning, bombing and destroying everything in sight. Then it was all about how they were just there to protect the pro-Russian Ukrainians...while proceeding to either kill or 'relocate' everyone they could catch as they moved far beyond any so-called pro-Russian zones to bomb the capital. 

Here's a little fun story about the Russian government's dark actions. Do you know how I got a basic grasp of Russian as a child despite being raised in an environment where English, Norwegian, and Swedish were most likely to be spoken while French Sesame Street played on the tv? A family of 4. A grandma, a mother, and two small girls. That was all that was left of that entire family line. Everyone in their family 'disappeared' . It was American operatives that got the last four members out before Russian agents could finish whatever f-ing task it was that included completely wiping out every trace of them. They were placed with new names in my tiny, shitty hometown in the middle of nowhere Minnesota because literally no one would think to look there. The mother gave lessons in Russian at my school so she could be close to her girls at all times. That was how bad her fear was - it followed her over the ocean to a place where no one would ever find them. Putin was in the KGB when they had to trust foreigners with their lives because their home was no longer safe. Think about this the next time you want to play the 'but Russia just wants to PROTECT Russians in Ukraine!' bit in this thread because Russia definitely doesn't have a really good history of that.  

As for anyone who thinks bringing up Libya is going to win them any points, Libya is currently investigating war crimes by Russian mercenaries. Maybe don't bring up other countries as some sort of gotcha when there's active investigations for the same shit by the same characters being looked into there.  As for Afghanistan? Think Soviet invasion and all the wonderful atrocities that happened then. None of this is a denial of shit America has done [ I think anyone accused of rape in the military should have their junk cut off in public and that's goes for anyone that tries to cover things up ] but this thread is about a Russian invasion of Ukraine.  

you cant just ignore the coupe and say russia is acting on a vacuum and is annexing crimea for the hell of it. pre 2014, relations were as friendly as can be. ukraine elected a pro russian leader. nato giving weapons to the extremist group to overthrow their government after said elections is already seriously undermining ukraine. crimea is way too important for russia to leave it at the hands of the west, you talking economic and national security. this post coupe ukraine was a threat whether anyone here acknowledges or not.

 

nato expansion is the red line russia has said many times that they will not tolerate. remember there was peace between the countries, but the west just kept expanding nato further east to russia territory. why is that? russia was in complete shambles post collapse so why didn't nato dissolve? post 2014 coupe government,  ukraine never had their peoples intrests at heart. russia even managed a cease fire. and they started to work with germany on another pipeline. hell russia provided the EU with cheap reliable energy and helped the syrian government from total collapse at the hands of the US. 

 

really? it wasnt US/NATO where the ones that bombed and overthrew ghadaffi which threw the entire region into chaos? aint no gotcha either, just be honest about what nato is and what it isnt. it is not a "peaceful defense force" like many claim. theres more than just lybia,  this is just western imperialism club meant to exert is force on weaker nations. they are much more aggression than anything russia has done. if anything you are the one turning a blind eye on that. also im not excusing russia for any crimes they may have committed either. but i will remain extremely skeptical of western sources on reporting the war. lots of stories turned out to being fake, so its a little difficult to sift through all  all these allegations. there are also many allegations of war crimes being committed by the ukranian government as well. this is a war and its always horrible. 

 

in todays major war news, i wonder who bombed the nordstream pipeline? they really dont want this used for leverage in any potential peace deal. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/mystery-gas-leaks-hit-major-russian-undersea-gas-pipelines-europe-2022-09-27/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Distortedreasoning]

On 9/26/2022 at 3:41 AM, 1pooh4u said:

Nothing about the US obtaining Hawaii was legal.  It’s not recognized as a US State under international law, but that’s  enough about Hawaii. This is about Russia v Ukraine/US.  
 

US is scumbags but none of what the US and pals did, that can be seen as a provocation, excuses Putin invading the country nor should the world have done an appeasement policy like Britain did with Hitler and Germany in ww2 with Putin. He wasn’t gonna stop with whatever area he was trying to grab. 
 

in any case the US is poking China now in regards to Taiwan. We’re gonna have half the world fighting each other in no time. It’s good for business apparently cuz we keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over

billions of weapons been going to taiwan for years now. its what we do. that plan backfired in russia, and in the middle east and they will backfire on a bigger scale if we try to escalate further with china. i still dont get, the recognition of US aggression, but condemning other nation when they do it. like sure condemn other nations, but isnt it hypocritical to not bring the same energy you have on other countries, when ours has the worst track record of doing it? 

[matrixman124]

16 minutes ago, Distortedreasoning said:

billions of weapons been going to taiwan for years now. its what we do. that plan backfired in russia, and in the middle east and they will backfire on a bigger scale if we try to escalate further with china. i still dont get, the recognition of US aggression, but condemning other nation when they do it. like sure condemn other nations, but isnt it hypocritical to not bring the same energy you have on other countries, when ours has the worst track record of doing it? 

I guess we live in the United States and are therefore responsible for all of the many war crimes it's done. That's the kind of logic you are putting forth here

 

[Lemming]

Vladimir Putin and the Opioid Crisis

Vladimir Putin and the 50 foot tall gold embossed Hall of Destruction

Vladimir Putin and the Refiners Stone

[matrixman124]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2022/09/27/ukraine-russia-invasion-live-updates/10438223002/

99% in Donetsk. Sounds legit.

I guess we can just annex parts of adjacent countries. There are some Americans in Baja California. Can we annex that?

[mthor]

10 hours ago, Top Gun said:

There's word that they may wind up trying to conscript people in the occupied territories. Like...have they thought this through?

SOP for the soviet's - it's how my Polish grandfather wound up in America.

[matrixman124]

7 minutes ago, mthor said:

SOP for the soviet's - it's how my Polish grandfather wound up in America.

Can't say no with a gun in your face

[Master-Debater131]

https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-for-u-s-citizens-in-russia/

So, apparently the State Department just told all US Citizens in Russia to get out.

 

Which really begs the question, what the hell are US Citizens doing in Russia right now?

[SwimModSponges]

Well it can't be 8 GOP congressman on a secret trip to speak with the russian government, that happened on the fourth of July 2018.

It also can't be Rand Paul with a secret handwritten note from Trump, because that happened on August 8 2018.

Wonder who it could be.

[Jman]

58 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

https://ru.usembassy.gov/security-alert-for-u-s-citizens-in-russia/

So, apparently the State Department just told all US Citizens in Russia to get out.

 

Which really begs the question, what the hell are US Citizens doing in Russia right now?

Dual citizens, people going to pick up their families to get them out before they get conscripted, etc.  Afghanistan faced a similar issue before its fall.

[Master-Debater131]

Just now, Jman said:

Dual citizens, people going to pick up their families to get them out before they get conscripted, etc.  Afghanistan faced a similar issue before its fall.

Yea, thats fair.  I didnt think about that. I was thinking tourists or people trying to do business in Russia.

 

Really feel bad for the people trying to get their families out. Putin has shown zero regard for human life. Hes going to throw bodies at Ukraine until something breaks.

[scoobdog]

12 hours ago, Top Gun said:

There's word that they may wind up trying to conscript people in the occupied territories. Like...have they thought this through?

I suspect the Russians see all of the people in the occupied regions as cannon fodder if they’re not already part of a resistance militia.

[matrixman124]

38 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

I suspect the Russians see all of the people in the occupied regions as cannon fodder if they’re not already part of a resistance militia.

Yeah they can use them before their own citizens.

[scoobdog]

1 hour ago, matrixman124 said:

Yeah they can use them before their own citizens.

Exactly.  Ghoulish as it is, they're most likely assuming whoever doesn't want to be in Russia has already evacuated, and the people left are either willing to go to battle or (more likely) easily cowed.  The fact that it's been reported that "voters" were possibly bussed in from Crimea, it seems likely that there won't be all that many people left to actually conscript.

[Top Gun]

4 hours ago, scoobdog said:

I suspect the Russians see all of the people in the occupied regions as cannon fodder if they’re not already part of a resistance militia.

My main point here is that they're going to be handing weapons to people who don't want them there and will be as likely to shoot their commanding officers in the back as follow orders.

[Sieg67]

I've already seen a video of somebody killing an enlister.