Raptorpat Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 where is cracky when you need him uuuuugggggghhhh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mix Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) my heart goes out to you it should be there in two to three business days....use it to plug the leak Edited January 3, 2020 by Mix 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naraku4656 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 put your mouth on it. don't want to waste any water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Metal Alchemist Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Naraku4656 said: put your mouth on it. don't want to waste any water Uh-oh, I foresee another "hold your wee for a wii" moment happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupin_bebop Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Fix it yourself. You don't need him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarPanda Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Put A bucket down you'll be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackymckrackin Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Admin_Raptorpat said: where is cracky when you need him uuuuugggggghhhh Go tankless. Best investment evar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackymckrackin Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 minute ago, crackymckrackin said: Go tankless. Best investment evar. Also, Navien and Rheem are the better choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, lupin_bebop said: Fix it yourself. You don't need him. that's what you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 33 minutes ago, crackymckrackin said: Go tankless. Best investment evar. so what's the deal with tankless, I've heard good things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 39 minutes ago, crackymckrackin said: Go tankless. Best investment evar. Whole house tankless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 my aunt and uncle replaced their tank with a tankless system a couple weeks ago when theirs started leaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackymckrackin Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 hours ago, scoobdog said: Whole house tankless? Depends on the house and occupants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackymckrackin Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Admin_Raptorpat said: so what's the deal with tankless, I've heard good things Tankless (gas) saves boat loads of money. The upfront price is higher but not by much when compared to a tank type gas water heater. If gas isn't an option, tank type would be the smarter choice. Electric tankless just isn't there yet in terms of efficiency. There is some added yearly maintenance on a tankless. The need to be flushed out once a year. The heat exchanger builds up calcium and lime and lowers efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamped Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAC Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 JB-weld brah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsar4 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 9 hours ago, Admin_Raptorpat said: so what's the deal with tankless, I've heard good things May mean significant repiping and/or electrical work. I've heard both good & bad. Consumer Reports says you need to know what Gallons per Minute your house will require, since you won't have a storage tank like a standard water heater. "Rather than storing water, tankless water heaters use heating coils to heat the water as you need it. They’re more energy-efficient than a storage tank but provide only a limited flow of hot water per minute—about 3.5 gallons, depending on inlet water temperatures. They’re best for people who typically aren’t drawing water for more than one use at a time—such as running a shower and dishwasher simultaneously.Tankless models are best for homes that use natural gas to heat the water; electric models might require an expensive upgrade of the home’s electrical capacity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 Yeah, the plumber stopped by to scope it out with my father and they think the easiest thing to do is just replace the tank, probably downsizing from 50 gal to a 40 gal to save money now and on energy usage over time. It's an electric hook-up now (though the other boiler for the radiator system is gas-powered, apparently converted from oil) so that would complicated with tankless if we explored that direction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpme Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 7 hours ago, crackymckrackin said: Tankless (gas) saves boat loads of money. The upfront price is higher but not by much when compared to a tank type gas water heater. If gas isn't an option, tank type would be the smarter choice. Electric tankless just isn't there yet in terms of efficiency. There is some added yearly maintenance on a tankless. The need to be flushed out once a year. The heat exchanger builds up calcium and lime and lowers efficiency. I've heard several different opinions on this but one that got me interested was this The pro with tankless is you don't have a bulky tank on the floor The con though its structure sercured to the foundation which can be tricky especially with older homes from the 70s and back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpme Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 https://www.servicechampions.net/blog/pros-cons-on-demand-tankless-water-heaters/ https://tankless.best/blog/the-pros-and-cons-of-a-tankless-water-heater/ Honestly I would just do some research on it Pat My hot water tank blew last march but the tank was 18 years old much longer than the usual age 8 to 12 year range This was the type Then I went with a Richmond heater which was cheaper. Bradford was about $1,200 and that's just 40 gallons without installation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginguy Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 59 minutes ago, Admin_Raptorpat said: Yeah, the plumber stopped by to scope it out with my father and they think the easiest thing to do is just replace the tank, probably downsizing from 50 gal to a 40 gal to save money now and on energy usage over time. It's an electric hook-up now (though the other boiler for the radiator system is gas-powered, apparently converted from oil) so that would complicated with tankless if we explored that direction. Hmm, sounds like you should just go for a HE electric tank. You can get really good ratings for a comparatively cheap price. Bummer way to start the new year, but hopefully this is getting the crud out of the way first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberbully Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Great, I really needed something else to needlessly worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 I am really touched that you worry about me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackymckrackin Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Admin_Raptorpat said: Yeah, the plumber stopped by to scope it out with my father and they think the easiest thing to do is just replace the tank, probably downsizing from 50 gal to a 40 gal to save money now and on energy usage over time. It's an electric hook-up now (though the other boiler for the radiator system is gas-powered, apparently converted from oil) so that would complicated with tankless if we explored that direction. There's a pretty big leap in price from a 40 gallon electric to a tankless. Most tankless start at or around $1,200 and then you have to purchase the valve kits and in some cases vent kits. Most 40 gallon electric water heater start around $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwimModSponges Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Admin_Raptorpat said: I am really touched that you worry about me. We gotta look out for each other. Make sure nobody's running by the pool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 Yeah, we're just not really in a position to take advantage of "cracky's best investment evar" right now, so cheap 40 gallon electric tank it probably will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackymckrackin Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Just now, Admin_Raptorpat said: Yeah, we're just not really in a position to take advantage of "cracky's best investment evar" right now, so cheap 40 gallon electric tank it probably will be. Someday when we are all rich....gonna make it rain tankless water heaters. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Ginguy said: Bummer way to start the new year, but hopefully this is getting the crud out of the way first. We had to replace most of the original line draining out of the house a couple months ago. The 70 year old rusted, crack, and corroded cast iron couldn't be snaked and had to be replaced. It was on our to-do list to replace it all anyways (and if it weren't an emergency I would have had him do the whole job at once rather than just the last 50ft), but you're never ready for it when it's actually time. And now the water tank, which was not even on the list, jumped ahead of things like replacing the lining for the heating boiler and fireplace ventilation or upgrading the electric. So if we die from a preventable cause, just know we could at least take hot showers up until the last day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacky1980 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 i replaced two 40gal electric heaters in my old house over 9 years. with the cheap ones. bad investment. they kept developing pinhole leaks in the bottom, even though they were stationary on blocks and kept dry at all times (on the outside, obviously). the house i moved into in 2016 had a 40gal electric in the basement that was 17 years old. i sucked out the buildup and replaced the elements a few months after moving in, and it's still running like a champ. crap. now i jinxed it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginguy Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Admin_Raptorpat said: We had to replace most of the original line draining out of the house a couple months ago. The 70 year old rusted, crack, and corroded cast iron couldn't be snaked and had to be replaced. It was on our to-do list to replace it all anyways (and if it weren't an emergency I would have had him do the whole job at once rather than just the last 50ft), but you're never ready for it when it's actually time. And now the water tank, which was not even on the list, jumped ahead of things like replacing the lining for the heating boiler and fireplace ventilation or upgrading the electric. So if we die from a preventable cause, just know we could at least take hot showers up until the last day. Ouch. When you replace the rest of your sanitary drain, be sure to put in a back-flow prevention valve. Best couple hundred dollars you will spend. I wouldn't run the fireplace if the ventilation is suspect, and the electrical is kind of scary. Is it knob and tube (replace that shit immediately) or just older and possibly a mix of copper and aluminum (safe if it was done right)? I got hit last year with needing a new roof and having to put in a drainage tile to control water in my front yard, that sucked. Yay home equity loan being lower than the financing offer from the roofing company, and yay for being able to pay it off early without penalty. Still sucked though, I had to pass up on a White House Christmas tour and some other cool opportunities. Home ownership is really good for unexpected and costly bills.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 The fireplace is a no-go. It was claimed to be operational and the prior owners definitely used it, but the first thing the fireplace inspector said when we wanted to start using it the following winter (before he even stuck a camera in or anything) was "DO NOT USE THIS". It needs like $7K worth of work to fix everything and be safe and code-compliant. But he said the more important problem and contributing factor to that is that the lining from the furnace in the basement into the chimney, and then the lining in the chimney, is shot. The acidic gasses venting out from the furnace (it's actually a boiler for the radiators, and it was converted from oil-burning to gas-burning at some point, a conversion that's evidently prone to this issue) ate through the linings and are eating through the mortar in the chimney. It isn't like carbon-monoxide urgent but that was going to be the immediate thing to do until the poop-pipe incident, and now this so it's bumped back one further. I believe the electric is all safe but it needs upgrading. New/larger switchbox, most all the outlets are two-prong, need more outlets, stuff like that. Electrician was here about two years ago to close off an outlet so we could put up a cabinet there and we talked it out, but then everything else plus two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginguy Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Ouch. Is there any way to direct vent the boiler out the basement instead of through the chimney? Otherwise it seems like you are just going to be doing this again and again. It might be worth the probable cost. The biggest thing with electric is if the wiring is mixed aluminum and copper and wasn't done right. We had this issue in our church and it wasn't done right, it causes a very real fire hazard. It cost our church $1500 to trace and repair it. The Session was complaining about the money until I showed them the wire nut that was melted from arcing. I got my money approved that night. Hopefully you aren't in that kind of situation, but it might not hurt to have your electrician check it out when you get to updating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpme Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, Ginguy said: Ouch. Is there any way to direct vent the boiler out the basement instead of through the chimney? Otherwise it seems like you are just going to be doing this again and again. It might be worth the probable cost. The biggest thing with electric is if the wiring is mixed aluminum and copper and wasn't done right. We had this issue in our church and it wasn't done right, it causes a very real fire hazard. It cost our church $1500 to trace and repair it. The Session was complaining about the money until I showed them the wire nut that was melted from arcing. I got my money approved that night. Hopefully you aren't in that kind of situation, but it might not hurt to have your electrician check it out when you get to updating. Well there is a way to tie it into the exhaust from the new furnaces since they're usually installed on the side of the house thru the brick n mortar I've see it done a few times I'm just not sure it it should be though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupin_bebop Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 11:30 PM, Admin_Raptorpat said: that's what you think Sigh. You’re being difficult as Hell. Fine. Get them to fix it. Then, go tankless. It’s amazing. Downside: your electric/gas bill may go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 I am incapable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneFox Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 When they said ‘significant up front’ they mean SIGNIFICANT. I’m not a plumber, but going to gas tankless requires you to have a second vent pipe installed, on top of the heater which is probably 300-400 dollars more expensive. You NEED a water softener or your investment, so that’s another 400-800 dollars if you don’t have one. Unless you like replacing expensive shit in your home every few years. With electric, you gotta upgrade your breakers and wiring instead of your vent. So pick your poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 My poison is an electric tank currently being installed while I hope it hurries up because y'all kept me up too late and I need a nap. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpme Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Admin_Raptorpat said: My poison is an electric tank currently being installed while I hope it hurries up because y'all kept me up too late and I need a nap. Just out of curiosity but what water system do you have? City or well water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 I am plugged into the town I do not use well water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackymckrackin Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, InsaneFox said: When they said ‘significant up front’ they mean SIGNIFICANT. I’m not a plumber, but going to gas tankless requires you to have a second vent pipe installed, on top of the heater which is probably 300-400 dollars more expensive. You NEED a water softener or your investment, so that’s another 400-800 dollars if you don’t have one. Unless you like replacing expensive shit in your home every few years. With electric, you gotta upgrade your breakers and wiring instead of your vent. So pick your poison. Most if not all gas tankless, vent with PVC now. It's not as bad as it used to be...don't buy Rennie...depending on your climate, some can be installed on an outside wall and directly vent outside. Pat can't unless he decides to move way south. The real expenses are the gas connection, valve kit and the heater itself. In Pat's case the 40 gal electric really is his best choice. I think I mentioned this but never do electric tankless. They require an insane amount of amps. Even with a newer 200 amp panel you blast through 60 amps with just one heater. If your house requires 2 heaters, you just lost 120 amps. In an all electric house you might have some brown outs or kill some sensitive electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 New tank installed. It's a 50 gallon again because it was actually cheaper than the 40 gallon. Hopefully not garbage because I don't need to do this again in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneFox Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Admin_Raptorpat said: New tank installed. It's a 50 gallon again because it was actually cheaper than the 40 gallon. Hopefully not garbage because I don't need to do this again in the near future. If you don’t have a water softener you’ll probably have to. They don’t build these things to last anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpme Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, Admin_Raptorpat said: I am plugged into the town I do not use well water. Whole house sediment catcher will be a good investment Since the water line hook up for the tank comes from the main line the catcher can help lighten the tank by catching sediment from the city when they do any pipe replacements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpme Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Just now, InsaneFox said: If you don’t have a water softener you’ll probably have to. They don’t build these things to last anymore. I never had a water softener and mine lasted 18 years were as the standard age is 8 to 12 The only thing I had done to it every year is a flush and fill but that's only because the city keeps replacing water mains and fire hydrants Flush the water line to remove any sediment 🙄💢 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpme Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 http://waterheatertimer.org/Clean-sediment-out-of-water-heater.html Water-softener reduces life of anode rod in gas and electric water heaters Water heater manual says: "Artificially softened water is exceedingly corrosive because the process substitutes sodium ions for magnesium and calcium ions. The use of water softener may decrease life of water heater tank." Six-year tanks come with 1 anode rod. Read manual. Generally, tanks with longer warranties come with 2 anode rods. Pick your poison now fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneFox Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, helpme said: I never had a water softener and mine lasted 18 years were as the standard age is 8 to 12 The only thing I had done to it every year is a flush and fill but that's only because the city keeps replacing water mains and fire hydrants Flush the water line to remove any sediment 🙄💢 Okay, well I sell these every day, and most people average about 5-6 years on their tank. There are exceptions, but planning for longer than that is probably not wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneFox Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, helpme said: http://waterheatertimer.org/Clean-sediment-out-of-water-heater.html Water-softener reduces life of anode rod in gas and electric water heaters Water heater manual says: "Artificially softened water is exceedingly corrosive because the process substitutes sodium ions for magnesium and calcium ions. The use of water softener may decrease life of water heater tank." Six-year tanks come with 1 anode rod. Read manual. Generally, tanks with longer warranties come with 2 anode rods. Pick your poison now fox Additionally, most water heater servicemen as well as representatives from companies like A.O. Smith will tell you that reducing lime and scale buildup will do more good than harm. Edited January 4, 2020 by InsaneFox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpme Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 minute ago, InsaneFox said: Okay, well I sell these every day, and most people average about 5-6 years on their tank. There are exceptions, but planning for longer than that is probably not wise. It also depends on the type and any features it has My Bradford had a sediment separator and had to be flushed whenever if got full which would be once a year the Richmond I just bought last march has a seperator as well but it has a bigger drain valve than the old one I'm on the hunt for a 1/2 hot water hose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpme Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, InsaneFox said: Additionally, most water heater servicemen as well as representatives from companies like A.O. Smith will tell you that lime and scale buildup will do more good than harm. I worked for a plumbing store the worst item you can ever put with a tank is a softener most of the plumbers we've had did a 2 way line one to the softener and the other to the tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneFox Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, helpme said: I worked for a plumbing store the worst item you can ever put with a tank is a softener most of the plumbers we've had did a 2 way line one to the softener and the other to the tank Well Lowe’s, Whirlpool, A.O. Smith, and every one of my installers (4 local Indianapolis companies) seem to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts