2022 Midterms: Oh god, not again

[Doom Metal Alchemist]

11 minutes ago, Ginguy said:

So, in the midst of former Vice-President Biden trying to redefine recession, turns out he had time to order the USPS to create a new "election security division" to handle mail-in ballots.

Just in time for Monkey Ba.7 Pox election fortifications....

 

 

So do Republicans want mail in voting to be more secure or less secure? I'm getting mixed signals here.

[Sawdy]

9 minutes ago, Doom Metal Alchemist said:

So do Republicans want mail in voting to be more secure or less secure? I'm getting mixed signals here.

They don’t want non whites voting… it’s very simple

[Seight]

18 minutes ago, Doom Metal Alchemist said:

So do Republicans want mail in voting to be more secure or less secure? I'm getting mixed signals here.

Spoiler

They just simply don't want mail-in voting.

 

[Master-Debater131]

Two new polls out showing Fetterman up on Oz by double digits.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/senate/

 

I will continue to say that while the national environment favors the GOP, the GOP in Penn is pretty much fucked.  They nominated two uniquely bad candidates and happen to be going up against the strongest Dem in this entire cycle in Fetterman. The only thing stopping the GOP from a total sweep this year is the GOP.  They nominated some truly awful candidates, and are very likely going to blow easy wins because of it.

They learned nothing from Todd Akin.

[scoobdog]

24 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Two new polls out showing Fetterman up on Oz by double digits.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/senate/

 

I will continue to say that while the national environment favors the GOP, the GOP in Penn is pretty much fucked.  They nominated two uniquely bad candidates and happen to be going up against the strongest Dem in this entire cycle in Fetterman. The only thing stopping the GOP from a total sweep this year is the GOP.  They nominated some truly awful candidates, and are very likely going to blow easy wins because of it.

They learned nothing from Todd Akin.

Well, they nominated awful candidates because they're in even more disarray than the Democrats.  When you allow a know usurper to have the kind of influence he has on your party, you set yourself up for this exact problem.

[Sawdy]

1 minute ago, scoobdog said:

Well, they nominated awful candidates because they're in even more disarray than the Democrats.  When you allow a know usurper to have the kind of influence he has on your party, you set yourself up for this exact problem.

The trolling Fetterman is doing tho is amazing tho

[scoobdog]

12 minutes ago, Sawdy said:

The trolling Fetterman is doing tho is amazing tho

He's what we need more of across the country.

[Sawdy]

4 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

He's what we need more of across the country.

He’s sloth… with a brain 

[Top Gun]

I only saw Oz's first post-primary ad just yesterday, and it was more of his usual insane babbling. Meanwhile Fetterman's camp has been taking the high road and spinning him as the badass he actually is.

Meanwhile on the governor side of things, this one PAC has been doing nothing but running clips of Mastriano's batshit abortion views. Shapiro doesn't even need to do anything more than that.

[Sawdy]

2 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

I only saw Oz's first post-primary ad just yesterday, and it was more of his usual insane babbling. Meanwhile Fetterman's camp has been taking the high road and spinning him as the badass he actually is.

Meanwhile on the governor side of things, this one PAC has been doing nothing but running clips of Mastriano's batshit abortion views. Shapiro doesn't even need to do anything more than that.

Oh yeah, the ads where the women are stating he is all about no exemptions on abortion? Yeah.. those are hitting big… tho I live outside of Philly and a good amount of people here like Oz and Masteiano because they are “honest and speak the truth” which is the same Trump shit

[Top Gun]

Oh trust me, I'm in the same exact boat there.

[Master-Debater131]

29 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Well, they nominated awful candidates because they're in even more disarray than the Democrats.  When you allow a know usurper to have the kind of influence he has on your party, you set yourself up for this exact problem.

I dont really think thats true. Dems are in just as rough a shape with regard to disarray as the GOP are, the difference is that a lot of it is being masked by getting some wins in Congress.  Once they are in the minority this fall its going to be a bloodbath with the hardcore progressive wing and the more centrist wing going for blood blaming each other for the loss.

Both parties are pretty much a shit show. Its just a difference of what kind of shit show. Dems are going to have an internal war over how far left they want to go, while the GOP is still fighting between the more principled conservatives and the MAGA-Cult. You can hate the "muh both sides!" all you want, but if you take a step back its pretty clear both parties are fracturing right now.

[Master-Debater131]

Mastriano is the single most dangerous candidate in the country this year. Bobo the clown and MTG are idiots, but Mastriano is legitimately dangerous.

His ideas are flat out undemocratic and he would represent an existential threat to our nations democracy if he wins. He has flat out said that he has the power to simply ignore the electors and pick who he thinks should win the presidency.

He needs to be defeated, and not a close one either. It should be a slaughter so that he and his ideas can be relegated to the trash heap.

[Raptorpat]

I don't think "disarray" is the right framing. The coalitions I think are contextually different, in part because the Electoral College and geographical advantages minimize what Republicans need to win while maximizing what Democrats need to win.

So that means like the Republican coalition is much narrower, because it only needs a smaller cohort to win power, and is more effectively purging it's outlying members because it can. Meanwhile the Democratic coalition is a much broader tent, so it's always prone to a lot of natural disagreement but everyone needs to stay in that tent to break even. 

There are localized examples of "disarray", like GA statewides will be real interesting to see how Republican voters act, given Kemp and Raffensperger are probably more dangerous to maga than a Democrat Trumpistas can easily vilify. But I think the Mastriano-type GOP Christian Nationalist candidate is going to be the new norm more and more.

[Master-Debater131]

I dont think the parties are quite the way you described them anymore. It was true that Dems were bigger tent and the GOP were smaller tent, but that dynamic has seen some pretty large shifts in recent years.

Dems are largely turning into the party of highly educated white people, while the GOP is picking up the working class.  Its a dynamic you are seeing play out in local elections across the country. The Dems are alienating large sections of their traditional base by letting the ultra-progressive white people take over the party. The loudest voices are getting the most support, and a lot of their ideas are not supported outside of their elitist bubbles. Thats why you have seen some incredible movement by working class people, particularly Hispanics, toward the GOP.  The GOP is growing quickly with the working class, again driven largely by the Hispanic movement toward them. The GOP has a record number of Hispanic candidates this year, and are look to win a bunch of minority-majority districts which is something they had no chance of doing just a few years ago. The idea of the "Demographic Destiny" that would lead to a permanent Democratic majority totally collapsed.

Thats going to be a fascinating dynamic to see play out within the GOP. The MAGA-Cult "christian nationalists" against the working class bloc led by a growing number of minority voters. In the long run that working class vote is going to win, simply because there are more working class people than there are maga-cult members. Thats even assuming the maga-cult can survive if/when Trump is charged with a crime and/or loses another election or even in the primary.

Democrats are quickly going to have to come to terms with the fact that a lot of their ideas just are not that popular. They are working right now because the GOP are basically one-upping them on the stupid, but that wont be the case forever. A lot of the ideas that play well in the ultra-blue bubbles are completely toxic in the rest of the country. You've already see some of the infighting over the past few years between the progressive members of the House and the centrists in the Senate. Its been relatively peaceful because Dems are in power, once that changes this fall its going to be an all out war between those two blocs. A lot of ills are healed by being in power.

Its not like we have seen this happen before either. Bush ran on a "big tent" platform and won then we saw the GOP shrink during the Obama years. These cycles happen in our politics, and we are going through another shift right now.

[NewBluntsworth]

We really can't get a clown react here?

[Master-Debater131]

 

This dude can go fuck himself. Hes a propagandist for the communist party. There is zero chance that China is dumb enough to shoot down her plane. They know that would be an immediate declaration of war on the US, and they arent about to try and do that.

 

God it feels weird to be cheering for Pelosi.

[NewBluntsworth]

39 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

This dude can go fuck himself. Hes a propagandist for the communist party. There is zero chance that China is dumb enough to shoot down her plane. They know that would be an immediate declaration of war on the US, and they arent about to try and do that.

 

God it feels weird to be cheering for Pelosi.

Of course you'd cheerlead this dumb provocation, warmongering is like most of your politics.

Personally I'm hoping Nancy finds something out for all her fucking around over there. 

[scoobdog]

21 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Personally I'm hoping Nancy finds something out for all her fucking around over there. 

Oh really?  What are you hoping Nancy finds out?

[scoobdog]

1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said:

I dont think the parties are quite the way you described them anymore. It was true that Dems were bigger tent and the GOP were smaller tent, but that dynamic has seen some pretty large shifts in recent years.

It hasn't changed.  Demographics are mostly irrelevant here.

By being conservative, the GOP really has only one effective ideology, that being maintaining the status quoa with the minimum cost.  That's not a knock, it's a general feature of any conservative party in any system and it's particularly effective in an Electoral College system that allows for fewer supporters to maintain power.  Progressivism is by its vary nature a much more loose coalition, with each group rallying around its own unique ideology and the broader party being a coalition of those members working together to help each out.  It's about a bunch of people with fundamental disagreements working together to get their own agendas the into play.  To put in a far more simpler terms, for Republicans the combined action and the goal are one in the same, for Democrats the combined action is a means to separate goals.

Also, that makes the one pitfall to a narrow coalition being that if that smaller cohort begins to purge moderates instead of outliers, which is what Trump is trying to do now.  By allowing a celebrity with no real political acumen control of a powerful and fairly stable political entity, they've committed the one fatal mistake they can create when it comes to maintaining power.

[Ginguy]

Naturally enough, when this happens and you're the "bigot" in the center, the guy on the right doesn't seem so bad.

 To put it another way, the Left invariably turns on itself.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Ginguy

[NewBluntsworth]

21 minutes ago, Ginguy said:

Naturally enough, when this happens and you're the "bigot" in the middle, the guy on the right doesn't seem so bad.

 To put it another way, the Left invariably turns on itself.

 

 

""""Center"""""

[Ginguy]

4 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

""""Center"""""

Duly noted.

 

[rpgamer]

"The left" ain't building any gallows for any of its own party members.

But do continue carrying on with the "turning on itself" subject on the dying message board where literally everyone wants you gone.

[PenguinBoss]

1 hour ago, rpgamer said:

"The left" ain't building any gallows for any of its own party members.

Yeah, but they were always the party of lynching. Didn't you see the picture?

[scoobdog]

3 hours ago, Ginguy said:

Naturally enough, when this happens and you're the "bigot" in the center, the guy on the right doesn't seem so bad.

 To put it another way, the Left invariably turns on itself.

I'm only quoting this because it's a perfect example of why conservatives are so easily conned by a charlatan like Trump.

@Master-Debater131- This "meme"  naturally explains the problem with comparing a conservative coalition with a progressive one.  When your basic model is maintaining the status quoa, your ideology doesn't change much as time progresses.  You might tailor the message to meet the current climate or you might attempt to soften some instances of blatant exclusion (bigotry, racism, or xenophobia) to better reach minority voters.  In general, though, you're still just selling people on the fact that things are fine just as they are and how they've always been.   When you attempt to put various social movements together under one progressive banner, however, you get a mirage as to where the extreme elements of your coalition may or may not be.  The sensation of progressives becoming more and more extreme is less about these elements suddenly appearing as the meme above might suggest and more about suddenly trying to compare progressive movements against each other.

Make no mistake, the year 2012 brought with it some key social movements that continued to gain momentum during the misrule of Trump.  Movements like "Black Lives Matter" were always in existence, but the uptick in police violence made the issue tangibly real and made racism a lightening rod for some progressive voters.  Similarly, the recovery from the 2008 crash opened up fissures between the companies that benefitted from an accommodating Fed and workers with wages that increasingly fail to provide sustenance.  These are just examples, of course:  how much influence (if any at all) each of these or any other progressive movement has is subject to debate.  The point is that the progressive rallying around each of these movement can seem incompatible to centrists of even each other.  @NewBluntsworth being the clown he is, illustrates this, and it highlights how there is no real "extreme" left that relates to centerists.

[SwimModSponges]

[katt_goddess]

3 hours ago, Ginguy said:

Naturally enough, when this happens and you're the "bigot" in the center, the guy on the right doesn't seem so bad.

 To put it another way, the Left invariably turns on itself.

 

 

You do realize that that cartoon shows that the guy on the right has run so far from the center himself that he would be considered Hitler's buddy had the 2008 line been given that much length, right? The little dude in the middle is no more than a 2006 'conservative' by those measurements. 

Further, it seems rather disingenuous for you to ever harp about 'woke' since you've no problem with the types of censorship, invasive jackassery and rewriting of things done on behalf of so-called conservatives for the conservatives... but really just for the white male conservatives who claim a 'Christian' religious bent whenever the cameras are rolling. 'Woke' uses pronouns in public spaces because everyone is different = worse thing ever. Republicans want to look up the shorts of students to make sure they are playing in the right sports = 'family values group hug time'.  

Your terms homework is due. 

[PenguinBoss]

Gotta say, I'm also a big fan of Jingai posting what is obviously a thumbnail. Couldn't figure out how to get to the actual picture, bud?

[katt_goddess]

1 minute ago, PenguinBoss said:

Gotta say, I'm also a big fan of Jingai posting what is obviously a thumbnail. Couldn't figure out how to get to the actual picture, bud?

If he links something that I can link back to a toad hole directly, I will feast on his shriveled soul.  

I only really require about 980 calories most days. 

[Raptorpat]

i want to post pictures too

[Doom Metal Alchemist]

4 hours ago, Ginguy said:

Naturally enough, when this happens and you're the "bigot" in the center, the guy on the right doesn't seem so bad.

 To put it another way, the Left invariably turns on itself.

 

 

You already posted this and I already pointed out YOU called Obama's 2012 presidential election Republican competitor a RINO. 

Your party now has drifted so far fucking to the right that now religious liberty as spelled out in The First Amendment according to the LAWMAKERS in YOUR PARTY means "This country is/needs to be a Christian Nationalist nation." How anyone with half a brain cell can equate "religious liberty" with "Christianity only" just shows how far up your own asses you and your party have gone. "HUR DUR THE SECOND AMENDMENT ALLOWS FOR AK'S IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT GET OUT AMERICA HATER." Ok, and to that end The First Amendment guarantees this was never and WILL NEVER be a Christian Nationalist nation and if YOU and YOUR LAWMAKERS DON"T LIKE IT, YOU/THEY CAN GET OUT, YOU AMERICA HATERS.

'HUR DUR ALL THE LEFT DO IS CALL ANYONE THEY DON'T AGREE WITH BIGOTS."

I want you to explain, in great detail, how actively advocating and trying to extinguish all non-Christian religions in this nation in the name of "RELIGIOUS LIBERTY" is NOT bigotry. Spell it out for me. Pretend I'm in kindergarten. 

[rpgamer]

At least he's playing a good distraction from MD's claims that "the left agenda" is widely unpopular. Yeah. I'm sure access to health care, education, living wages, and general basic human rights is a pretty unpopular position.

[stilgar]

15 minutes ago, rpgamer said:

At least he's playing a good distraction from MD's claims that "the left agenda" is widely unpopular. Yeah. I'm sure access to health care, education, living wages, and general basic human rights is a pretty unpopular position.

It is if you are a shit head conservative.

[Master-Debater131]

20 hours ago, scoobdog said:

*shortened to save space*

I dont really disagree with what you said. Thats how the two ends of the spectrum typically work.  I dont really think the GOP is a true conservative party anymore though. Between the MAGA-cult and general "own the libs" they act more like a right-wing populist party instead of a truly conservative party.

A true conservative party would reign in spending and government when they get the chance. The GOP hasnt done that. They expand government for programs that they like. If its the "right" program, they will absolutely spend money on it. They also have shown no hesitation in wielding the power of the government to do whatever they want. They arent trying to shrink the government like a conservative party would do.

Democrats are basically the "Everything else" party.  I do think there are some shifts, but I dont think that the GOP is really a true conservative party anymore.  A lot of the more traditional conservatives have left the GOP and are floating around. A bunch went to the Democrats, which is a dynamic that will be interesting to see play out.

Trump was a political grenade that got rolled into DC. We are still dealing with the fallout both in terms of what it did to the electorate, and what he did on the 6th with his cult. Ill stand by my opinion that I think we are seeing a shift in our political parties. I just dont think we will have a real grasp on what changed for a few more years.

[scoobdog]

17 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

I dont really disagree with what you said. Thats how the two ends of the spectrum typically work.  I dont really think the GOP is a true conservative party anymore though. Between the MAGA-cult and general "own the libs" they act more like a right-wing populist party instead of a truly conservative party.

A true conservative party would reign in spending and government when they get the chance. The GOP hasnt done that. They expand government for programs that they like. If its the "right" program, they will absolutely spend money on it. They also have shown no hesitation in wielding the power of the government to do whatever they want. They arent trying to shrink the government like a conservative party would do.

Democrats are basically the "Everything else" party.  I do think there are some shifts, but I dont think that the GOP is really a true conservative party anymore.  A lot of the more traditional conservatives have left the GOP and are floating around. A bunch went to the Democrats, which is a dynamic that will be interesting to see play out.

Trump was a political grenade that got rolled into DC. We are still dealing with the fallout both in terms of what it did to the electorate, and what he did on the 6th with his cult. Ill stand by my opinion that I think we are seeing a shift in our political parties. I just dont think we will have a real grasp on what changed for a few more years.

That’s true.   A lot of the disarray you see from progressives is a result of the GOP self immolating and purging is own moderates creating both an even larger progressive tent and a sense of urgency that a loose coalition can’t realistically meet.

[Raptorpat]

6 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

creating both an even larger progressive tent and a sense of urgency that a loose coalition can’t realistically meet.

I think the coalition met the urgency of their shared goal in 2018/2020. The problem is once they accomplished their shared vision (Trump out) and they faxed a blank slate, their differences started to outweigh their facial commonalities.

Then the build back butthole type fiascos make more sense.

[Master-Debater131]

1 hour ago, Raptorpat said:

I think the coalition met the urgency of their shared goal in 2018/2020. The problem is once they accomplished their shared vision (Trump out) and they faxed a blank slate, their differences started to outweigh their facial commonalities.

Then the build back butthole type fiascos make more sense.

This is frankly what a lot of people keep missing when looking at the current state of the Democratic majority. Biden, and Dems, won not because of Biden but because of Trump.  2020 was a referendum on Trump where the majority of Americans said "fuck that" and went with the definition of establishment candidate in Biden. He wasnt elected to be the next FDR, he was elected to be a boring not-Trump President.

But then some in his party, and eventually Biden himself, thought they had a mandate to jerk this country to the Left and try and push through a wildly progressive agenda. That wasnt what got him elected. The math in Congress wasnt ever going to let that kind of agenda pass, and so it made it look like Biden and his agenda was a failure.

All Biden had to do was be not-Trump and be the most boring President ever and he would be popular. Instead he tried to push through an agenda that no one really wanted, then failed in that push, and now looks totally incompetent.

[matrixman124]

1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said:

This is frankly what a lot of people keep missing when looking at the current state of the Democratic majority. Biden, and Dems, won not because of Biden but because of Trump.  2020 was a referendum on Trump where the majority of Americans said "fuck that" and went with the definition of establishment candidate in Biden. He wasnt elected to be the next FDR, he was elected to be a boring not-Trump President.

But then some in his party, and eventually Biden himself, thought they had a mandate to jerk this country to the Left and try and push through a wildly progressive agenda. That wasnt what got him elected. The math in Congress wasnt ever going to let that kind of agenda pass, and so it made it look like Biden and his agenda was a failure.

All Biden had to do was be not-Trump and be the most boring President ever and he would be popular. Instead he tried to push through an agenda that no one really wanted, then failed in that push, and now looks totally incompetent.

I don't think the problem is "Biden is too progressive." The problem is he promised a lot of progressive change and did not follow through with it. And now we are in or on the verge of a recession with the prices of gas and goods climbing. That's all the voters really care about, stuff that directly affects them.

Meanwhile, the GOP is trying to make it look like progressives are brainwashing the youth into becoming queer and they're using that as a pretense to push red states further right, erasing queer and women's rights with the help of the Supreme Court making it a state issue. They're trying to make everyone as afraid as possible of the left to get people to vote for them for protection.

It's not a great situation but the GOP has been far more malicious than the Democrats who have arguably been very complacent with their actions for the sake of bipartisanship. They seem to be pushing back a bit more since Roe's death at least.

[scoobdog]

Democrats were not under the illusion that Biden was anything other than not Trump.  You might be misattributing what we’re doing as a us calling it a mandate, but that’s hardly the case.  Climate, voting rights and child care can hardly be called wildly progressive considering the overwhelming need.  They’re causes that most progressives can agree are really important and frankly don’t need mandates.

[Top Gun]

All of those positions would be considered center to center-right in a country whose Overton window isn't royally fucked.

[Master-Debater131]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/01/politics/nancy-pelosi-taiwan-visit/index.html

 

Shes going.  CNN is reporting that Pelosi will go to Taiwan on Tuesday and spend the night in Taipei. China keeps huffing and puffing, but I really doubt they actually do anything.

[Sawdy]

7 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/01/politics/nancy-pelosi-taiwan-visit/index.html

 

Shes going.  CNN is reporting that Pelosi will go to Taiwan on Tuesday and spend the night in Taipei. China keeps huffing and puffing, but I really doubt they actually do anything.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China's_final_warning

[naraku360]

On 7/30/2022 at 12:55 PM, Master-Debater131 said:

But then some in his party, and eventually Biden himself, thought they had a mandate to jerk this country to the Left and try and push through a wildly progressive agenda.

......what?

[Master-Debater131]

10 minutes ago, Sawdy said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China's_final_warning

This is a really good point about whats going on.

it feels like we get these kind of warnings every few weeks for activities that have been going on for decades. Hell, they issued a "warning" after the CHIPs act passed saying that us producing our own semiconductors was bad for the international order.

[Sawdy]

https://www.comicsands.com/mtg-laugh-at-monkeypox-gay-2657738751.html
 

I wonder who she is referring to when she says, “Some people”

[Master-Debater131]

I feel like calling MTG a cunt is an insult to cunts.

 

Shes an entirely different level of awful garbage.

[Sawdy]

https://theprint.in/world/biden-facetimes-veterans-protesting-for-burn-pit-bill-sends-pizza/1062933/

Edited August 1, 2022 by Sawdy

[stilgar]

On 7/30/2022 at 3:55 PM, Master-Debater131 said:

But then some in his party, and eventually Biden himself, thought they had a mandate to jerk this country to the Left and try and push through a wildly progressive agenda.

How far right do you have to be to think biden in pushing a progressive agenda?

[PenguinBoss]

3 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/01/politics/nancy-pelosi-taiwan-visit/index.html

 

Shes going.  CNN is reporting that Pelosi will go to Taiwan on Tuesday and spend the night in Taipei. China keeps huffing and puffing, but I really doubt they actually do anything.

Found the real reason for her trip: