Jump to content
UnevenEdge

ITN: Israel


Master-Debater131

Recommended Posts

I don't usually bother with you because you're disingenuous as all get out, but...

10 hours ago, Distortedreasoning said:

even asking like they do in msm. hamas, however they were formed, whatever you think of them, is the army of the palestinian people. thats the only ones aside from ansar allah fighting for palestinian liberation. 

It's objective fact that attacking soft, non military targets is not fighting for liberation.  Even if you're stupid enough to believe that Hamas fighters didn't engage in rape or torture in at least the same degree as the IDF is now being investigated for, you can't ignore the fact that terroristic operations are incompatible with freedom fighting operations for multitude of reasons, including:

  • An operation that results in civilian casualties can only result in retaliation and/or increased governmental control.  You don't stop bleeding by letting your heart pump the wound dry, you stop it by compression.
  • Terrorism has never, historically, resulted in compliance.  To the contrary, it tends to radicalize establishment participants in a way that increases divisions and results in a greater burden for the separatist faction.  (If you want an example, look no further than the nearly century long struggle of the Irish Republican Army and the impediments it created for Ireland.)
  • When retaliation inevitably does happen, the consequential collateral damage will almost certainly disproportionately affect the disenfranchised side.  The October 7th massacre wasn't just a tragedy for the innocent Israeli civilians, it was a tragedy for the Palestinians who took the brunt of the retaliation even before the IDF entered into ghastly war of attrition.  The independence movement doesn't have the infrastructure of the establishment so they will, naturally, suffer higher casualty rates should the establishment respond in kind to an attack.

in short, an "army of the palestinian people" doesn't sabotage their own people for no appreciable gain.  Let's call the Oct 7 attackers what they are - anarchists who are putting their own (if justified) anger above the cause they're fighting for.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Distortedreasoning said:

@Raptorpat, i guess you only gonna allow msm views and ones that totally discredits the plight of those that are suffering. 

That’s not what happened because the msm makes Palestinian suffering very clear what you won’t do is post bullshit blogs and try to deny the events that took place on October 7. I bet you’ll be posting Holocaust denial shit shortly too 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

That’s not what happened because the msm makes Palestinian suffering very clear what you won’t do is post bullshit blogs and try to deny the events that took place on October 7. I bet you’ll be posting Holocaust denial shit shortly too 

Wtf did he post to catch a ban?

Edited by naraku360
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, naraku360 said:

Wtf did he post to catch a ban?

Basically a far left blog post denying Hamas had anything to do with Oct 7 to support his claim that Hamas was innocent of any crimes 

hamas has admitted they did it. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

Basically a far left blog post denying Hamas had anything to do with Oct 7 to support his claim that Hamas was innocent of any crimes 

hamas has admitted they did it. 

Was that the Grey Zone post or something somehow worse?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, naraku360 said:

Was that the Grey Zone post or something somehow worse?

Grey Zone post. I’m not saying they never broke a story or never got anything right but broken clocks are right twice a day too. Doesn’t mean I’m using them to tell time 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

Grey Zone post. I’m not saying they never broke a story or never got anything right but broken clocks are right twice a day too. Doesn’t mean I’m using them to tell time 

Yeah, I'm not as sure about horseshoe theory as I am that distorted is a willing victim of faux-progressive propaganda.

I think he's aware it's propaganda but agrees with what it's pushing. Like, it's propaganda but the kind that speaks the truth so I'm gonna pretend it isn't......?

That may sound crazy, because it is, but also distorted.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, naraku360 said:

Yeah, I'm not as sure about horseshoe theory as I am that distorted is a willing victim of faux-progressive propaganda.

I think he's aware it's propaganda but agrees with what it's pushing. Like, it's propaganda but the kind that speaks the truth so I'm gonna pretend it isn't......?

That may sound crazy, because it is, but also distorted.

I see it a lot with libertarianism in particular. Originally it was a lot more anarcho sindicalist where they disregarded centralized government and self governed via commune. 

Over time, it became less about self government and more about survival of the fittest and individualism. So you have a philosophy that is supposed to be about community and now it's about get rid of government so we can bring back feudalism.

So we have a lot of idealists who see modern libertarianism on the surface as reduced centralized government and more akin to an anarchist society but in reality they're being duped by a bunch of megalomaniacal rich old farts who think they are the fittest to survive because they have money and power.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, naraku360 said:

Yeah, I'm not as sure about horseshoe theory as I am that distorted is a willing victim of faux-progressive propaganda.

I think he's aware it's propaganda but agrees with what it's pushing. Like, it's propaganda but the kind that speaks the truth so I'm gonna pretend it isn't......?

That may sound crazy, because it is, but also distorted.

It would make sense that there are ultra progressives who are willing to warp reality to an ideology.

As absurd as it sounds, the idea that Bernie Sanders might be a sellout is easier to process than a geopolitical reality that suggests Jewish progressives are powerless to stop a strongman that is hijacking Jewish identity to further his personal aims.  Israel can’t stop protecting itself just because Netanyahu is engaging in a genocide.  It’s not as simple as cutting off arms shipments, and putting restrictions on shipments is hard when they go through a strongman with a ultra conservative agenda that aligns with racist Republicans who are also pushing to approve those arms shipments.

It goes to the greater concept that idealism rarely meshes with reality in ways that easily disillusion idealists.  It’s no coincidence that Distorted isn’t all that intelligent - he rarely processes information other than to directly refute.  But, more than that, he’s similar to Trumpers and Musk Bros in that he’s powerless to maintain the worldview he thrives in.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, André Toulon said:

It's annoying for me because I can sometimes agree with some of distorted's sentiments....then he say some wild and outlandish shit that makes me completely rethink what we agreed on. That all or nothing shit is childish.

All it takes is finding yourself in an echo chamber with the wrong people and your priorities get really twisted. Is this because distorted had some predilections to this kind of thinking? Can't say for sure. But I don't think they intend to be a stooge posting on this here web forum in the year of our Lord 2024. The grifters are on the big platforms.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/13/2024 at 4:40 AM, 1pooh4u said:

That’s not what happened because the msm makes Palestinian suffering very clear what you won’t do is post bullshit blogs and try to deny the events that took place on October 7. I bet you’ll be posting Holocaust denial shit shortly too 

october 7 just an excuse. self defense? where have we heard that talk before? i know people dont got long memories, but 9/11. i gotta chose my words carefully about what happened on that day seeing as this is a taboo thing here. but i will say the mainstream pushes this view, to discredit any action by the palestinians and is exactly the excuse israel is using to commit their genocide. say what you'll say about oct. 7 but the facts are, this is the greenlight for israel to continue doing what they are doing. the usa can say they dont approve of whats happening, but they sure as shit are giving them weapons to continue doing it. 

 

everyone trying to make people seem crazy because of disagreements. 

  • D'oh 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/13/2024 at 11:50 AM, 1pooh4u said:

Basically a far left blog post denying Hamas had anything to do with Oct 7 to support his claim that Hamas was innocent of any crimes 

hamas has admitted they did it. 

the article didnt deny any "crimes". it was just specific crimes being thrown into question. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't read your source but you somehow both denied that terrorism against civilians happened while also implying that the terrorism against civilians was justified.

THAT IS NOT AN OK POSITION 

JUSTIFYING AFFIRMATIVE VIOLENCE AGAINST OR OTHERWISE DEHUMANIZING CIVILIANS ON EITHER SIDE IS NOT OK

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Raptorpat said:

I didn't read your source but you somehow both denied that terrorism against civilians happened while also implying that the terrorism against civilians was justified.

THAT IS NOT AN OK POSITION 

JUSTIFYING AFFIRMATIVE VIOLENCE AGAINST OR OTHERWISE DEHUMANIZING CIVILIANS ON EITHER SIDE IS NOT OK

Thank you Pat.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Distortedreasoning said:

october 7 just an excuse. self defense? where have we heard that talk before? i know people dont got long memories, but 9/11. i gotta chose my words carefully about what happened on that day seeing as this is a taboo thing here. but i will say the mainstream pushes this view, to discredit any action by the palestinians and is exactly the excuse israel is using to commit their genocide. say what you'll say about oct. 7 but the facts are, this is the greenlight for israel to continue doing what they are doing. the usa can say they dont approve of whats happening, but they sure as shit are giving them weapons to continue doing it. 

 

everyone trying to make people seem crazy because of disagreements. 

Fuck you Oct 7 happened they raped women men and children and murdered babies as a fuckin target. And yes they did have the right to self defense every country has the right to defend itself and its citizens

I’m not getting into any other conversation with you because I do not discuss Israel and Palestine with fuckin antisemites. Which you definitely are and not for your stance on the conflict 

fuck off big time

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Distortedreasoning said:

the article didnt deny any "crimes". it was just specific crimes being thrown into question. 

Actually, no, fuck you. You don't get the benefit of the doubt here.

On 8/7/2024 at 1:19 AM, Distortedreasoning said:

Here's the headline:

"Western media concocts ‘evidence’ UN report on Oct 7 sex crimes failed to deliver"

Screenshot_20240815_102215_Chrome.thumb.jpg.17b9fd141025a3e12dc85c864e2933a0.jpg

No guys, it wasn't denying crimes! It was just claiming the evidence of those crimes was fabricated!

Douchenugget.

Edited by naraku360
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, naraku360 said:

Actually, no, fuck you. You don't get the benefit of the doubt here.

Here's the headline:

"Western media concocts ‘evidence’ UN report on Oct 7 sex crimes failed to deliver"

Screenshot_20240815_102215_Chrome.thumb.jpg.17b9fd141025a3e12dc85c864e2933a0.jpg

No guys, it wasn't denying crimes! It was just claiming the evidence of those crimes was fabricated!

Douchenugget.

maybe they didn’t collect “concrete evidence” because at the time the victims were still fuckin missing.   
 

 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shame Distorted went this direction considering there was only 1 person in this thread saying what Israel was doing after the attack was ok.  Now I gotta defend Israel because of one dip shit denying any rapes occurred. I guess that woman bleeding from her asshole liked whatever got shoved up there.  Fuckin pieces of shit

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/15/2024 at 10:47 AM, 1pooh4u said:

Shame Distorted went this direction considering there was only 1 person in this thread saying what Israel was doing after the attack was ok.  Now I gotta defend Israel because of one dip shit denying any rapes occurred. I guess that woman bleeding from her asshole liked whatever got shoved up there.  Fuckin pieces of shit

MD and Distorted in this thread:

  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Netanyahu: Israel won't pay any price for hostage deal, won’t give up Philadelphi

"Israel won’t make a hostage deal at any price Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Tuesday in advance of high-level negotiations slated for later this week.

He made his comments to victims groups, just after the IDF was able to retrieve six bodies of Israelis killed in captivity in the enclave.

"I am not sure that there will be a [hostage] deal," Netanyahu said according to a statement put out by both groups he met with. These were the Valor Forum representing victims of the Israel-Hamas war and the Tikva Forum composed of relatives of hostages in Gaza.

"If there is a deal, it will be one that safeguards those [Israeli] interests which I have repeatedly stressed, which is preserving Israel's strategic assets," Netanyahu told the two groups, both of whom support a firm stand with regard to a deal.

He met with them a day after speaking for three hours with US Secretary Antony Blinken who is in the region in an attempt to finalize a deal."

 

Netanyhu is saying the quiet part out loud now. The odds of a hostage deal are pretty small at this point. Israel cant afford to allow Hamas to continue to exist, so they will do what is needed to end the war. They also are not going to give up the Philadelphi corridor anytime soon, which is a non starter for Hamas who needs that corridor to smuggle in more supplies for their terrorism.

October 7th fundamentally changed the calculus in the region. Israel can no longer allow Hamas to exist, and they are now publicly stating so.

  • D'oh 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

@Master-Debater131 do you know what “saying the quiet part out loud” means cuz I’m not so sure that you do. Netanyahu and his buddies have been doing that since Oct 7 

From the beginning the "quiet part" has been that there may not be any hostage deal. Publicly there has always been talk, and effort, to have some sort of hostage deal. They even had the one earlier where there was a pause and release of some hostages. Now that he is openly saying that there may not be a deal it represents a shift in tone, and a clear shift in public expectations for this war.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Master-Debater131 said:

From the beginning the "quiet part" has been that there may not be any hostage deal. Publicly there has always been talk, and effort, to have some sort of hostage deal. They even had the one earlier where there was a pause and release of some hostages. Now that he is openly saying that there may not be a deal it represents a shift in tone, and a clear shift in public expectations for this war.

You're shifting the goal posts:  you specifically said that the "quiet part" was Hamas ceasing to exist:

Quote

October 7th fundamentally changed the calculus in the region. Israel can no longer allow Hamas to exist, and they are now publicly stating so.

In fact, Netanyahu hasn't just explicitly stated this from the beginning, it's been stated by the Israeli government for as long as Hamas has been in existence.  They have never "allowed" Hamas to exist, they simply can't eradicate it.

But, that aside, Netanyahu didn't have to say there was no hostage deal planned because the goal all along had been to eliminate Hamas.  Now that the unrealistic goal has failed in spectacular fashion, he is stuck with a bad negotiating position - he does not have the option to not negotiate for hostage release until all of the hostages are rescued or, more likely, recovered.  He already has the victims' families breathing down his neck and he's facing an increasingly fractured coalition.  If he says that no deal is possible for getting the hostages back, he's effectively doomed.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Netanyahu has never wanted to save the hostages. He has an area bombed flat and then the bodies get pulled out. That's it. If you asked him to define 'Hamas', 'Palestinian' would be the only qualifier. If he was told that any actual 'Hamas' terrorists would immediately die if he himself died, 100% guarantee - his own blood is the ink in a DeathNote type of thing, he would go and have another school bombed instead. 

  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

From the beginning the "quiet part" has been that there may not be any hostage deal. Publicly there has always been talk, and effort, to have some sort of hostage deal. They even had the one earlier where there was a pause and release of some hostages. Now that he is openly saying that there may not be a deal it represents a shift in tone, and a clear shift in public expectations for this war.

This is not what the phrase means. In this context, to "say the quiet part loud" is to say that no hostage deal was ever a consideration.

The phrase does not apply to "may or may not" situations. It applies when the person saying it was always actively and intentionally going against their publicly stated position. The phrase specifically refers to liars. It is not about uncertainty nor simply being incorrect.

  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

You're shifting the goal posts:  you specifically said that the "quiet part" was Hamas ceasing to exist:

In fact, Netanyahu hasn't just explicitly stated this from the beginning, it's been stated by the Israeli government for as long as Hamas has been in existence.  They have never "allowed" Hamas to exist, they simply can't eradicate it.

But, that aside, Netanyahu didn't have to say there was no hostage deal planned because the goal all along had been to eliminate Hamas.  Now that the unrealistic goal has failed in spectacular fashion, he is stuck with a bad negotiating position - he does not have the option to not negotiate for hostage release until all of the hostages are rescued or, more likely, recovered.  He already has the victims' families breathing down his neck and he's facing an increasingly fractured coalition.  If he says that no deal is possible for getting the hostages back, he's effectively doomed.

MD also likes to ignore that the fall of ISIS was only possible because of Palestinian fighters, who made up much more of the resistance than the US or Israel.

As a result, Israel is unironically killing the people who are most significant in fighting Hamas.

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said:

From the beginning the "quiet part" has been that there may not be any hostage deal. Publicly there has always been talk, and effort, to have some sort of hostage deal. They even had the one earlier where there was a pause and release of some hostages. Now that he is openly saying that there may not be a deal it represents a shift in tone, and a clear shift in public expectations for this war.

There never was going to be a hostage deal period. Netanyahu and his gang of evil clowns made plenty of statements to suggest that from day 1 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...