Shinichiro Watanabe apparently considers Space Dandy a massive flop and feels guilt over screwing it up

[Jman]

 

[PokeNirvash]

He's just mad 'cause everyone preferred it over Terror in Resonance.

Edited January 5, 2023 by PokeNirvash

[Seight]

Damn, I liked that show too.

[viperxmns]

let it be under the radar, we don't need netflix finding it and deciding to do more bad things with anime

 

[Jman]

12 minutes ago, viperxmns said:

let it be under the radar, we don't need netflix finding it and deciding to do more bad things with anime

 

Alice in Borderland and the Kenshin films convinced me they should just throw money to Japanese studios and let them do it.

[viperxmns]

live action anime stuff is less cringe in my mind when Japanese studios are the ones doing it

[Top Gun]

Space Dandy kicked major ass.

[DragonSinger]

3 hours ago, Jman said:

 

Unfortunately, I think this was one of those shows that was ahead of its time. I think it would do really well if it came out now.

[Toonamiguy321]

He is being too hard on himself. Among western viewers who watched it on Toonami, it’s beloved. Over the years, I have seen very few negative discussions about Space Dandy. At the very worst, there are specific episodes people didn’t mesh with. Id wager most Toonami fans would rank Dandy somewhere in their top 10 memories of all time from the revived block. 
 

Where it struggled was with Japanese audiences. Just never got it’s wheels rolling over there. I know, that’s the “main” audience even though it premiered on Toonami first. I don’t think it’s fair to consider the show a total dud just because of that though. Yea, there is no convincing a Japanese studio to make more when it’s well documented it doesn’t appeal to the Japanese, but it still found solid footing on the other side of the ocean. That’s no flop. 
 

Every single anime season there are multiple shows that the entire world thinks are garbage. If your show was beloved by one country, that’s better than a lot of shows could wish for. 

[OwlChemist81]

I have a funny feeling it re-airs next year for its 10th Anniversary!

And maybe DeMarco can even make like an extra 6-episode special happen?

[Daos]

Ya know, Weird Al's zany comedy UHF was a huge flop. But it was great and became a cult classic. Sometimes things get released that are just ahead of their time, or just too oddball for their time. Japanese creators are always way too hard on themselves.

"These were the greatest years of my life" 

"You were here a week."

[DragonSinger]

2 hours ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

He is being too hard on himself. Among western viewers who watched it on Toonami, it’s beloved. Over the years, I have seen very few negative discussions about Space Dandy. At the very worst, there are specific episodes people didn’t mesh with. Id wager most Toonami fans would rank Dandy somewhere in their top 10 memories of all time from the revived block. 
 

Where it struggled was with Japanese audiences. Just never got it’s wheels rolling over there. I know, that’s the “main” audience even though it premiered on Toonami first. I don’t think it’s fair to consider the show a total dud just because of that though. Yea, there is no convincing a Japanese studio to make more when it’s well documented it doesn’t appeal to the Japanese, but it still found solid footing on the other side of the ocean. That’s no flop. 
 

Every single anime season there are multiple shows that the entire world thinks are garbage. If your show was beloved by one country, that’s better than a lot of shows could wish for. 

I feel like it would have had more of a shot in Japan after One Punch Man's popularity.

[MasqueradeOverture]

I remember being in college and hearing this show pop up in conversation amongst art classmates while it was airing. A pleasant surprise for sure.

I agree, it was too ahead of its time. It fits more into the post-post-irony of Gen Z's culture than whatever the naive hell was happening in 2014.

Edited January 5, 2023 by MasqueradeOverture

[Doom Metal Alchemist]

I didn't mind it but when you put it up against something like Cowboy Bebop, it can't compare. But that really speaks more to the quality of Bebop rather than the lack of quality of Space Dandy.

[atomicinumatt]

12 hours ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

Where it struggled was with Japanese audiences. Just never got it’s wheels rolling over there. I know, that’s the “main” audience even though it premiered on Toonami first. I don’t think it’s fair to consider the show a total dud just because of that though. Yea, there is no convincing a Japanese studio to make more when it’s well documented it doesn’t appeal to the Japanese, but it still found solid footing on the other side of the ocean. That’s no flop. 
 

Every single anime season there are multiple shows that the entire world thinks are garbage. If your show was beloved by one country, that’s better than a lot of shows could wish for. 

I think that is maybe what SW is speaking towards. Even though it premiered a day earlier in america, Japan was still the primary market. Japan is where a lot of the marketing, merchandising, etc. would be, even more so back then when it came out. It is more easily viewed as a financial flop, not that it was not a good show. I mean how much money did it make over in America? I did not see a lot of merchandising. Maybe some DVD sales and licensing? I think there was a manga adaptation as well so maybe that sold some here. IDK. But the primary market for these projects is almost always Japan. Though it has been changing in years of late.   

I do think it would do better over there in today's times. I am not sure how they marketed it over in Japan either. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by atomicinumatt

[Sketch]

If he honestly feels Dandy was a mistake, that’s a real shame. Bebop and Champloo are fantastic and ionic but Space Dandy was truly art.

I hope Shingo Natsume is proud of directing Space Dandy.

[Daos]

I think two things worked against it in Japan. Japan doesn't seem to like Sci Fi as much as we do in the US. An anime about basketball would probably draw more eyeballs than most Sci Fi you could put out there.

The other thing is Dandy's lack of continuity. Kind of similar to Aqua teen hunger force, where characters would die and then everything would just go back to normal the next episode. From what I've seen they're not usually into that.

 

[atomicinumatt]

52 minutes ago, Daos said:

I think two things worked against it in Japan. Japan doesn't seem to like Sci Fi as much as we do in the US. An anime about basketball would probably draw more eyeballs than most Sci Fi you could put out there.

The other thing is Dandy's lack of continuity. Kind of similar to Aqua teen hunger force, where characters would die and then everything would just go back to normal the next episode. From what I've seen they're not usually into that.

 

While I think Sci-Fi is not the most popular genre in Japan, there are definitely successful Sci-Fi anime over there. The episodic nature of Space Dandy could have been a turn off for some. 

I think that the biggest reason it was financially unsuccessful in Japan is that it was marketed more towards the western audience, and not as much in Japan, their largest market by far at the time. 

Even though it is a great anime and was popular in America, it ultimately fell from the public's attention after a while. And in Japan it was even less noticed. I do honestly think it comes down to marketing and the time it came out. Just my opinion though. 

[Daos]

Not sure how accurate this is, but take a look at the list.

https://questionjapan.com/blog/things-to-do/most-popular-anime-in-japan/

Top 10 popular anime in 2021, none were Sci Fi. And if they do like Sci Fi, it's usually going to be more Mecha than Sci Fi.

They just have very different tastes. They love Tokyo Ghoul for some reason.

[Jman]

The issue with Space Dandy is that it was very difficult to market.  It was marketed as a madcap comedy but numerous episodes were not funny, more interested in exploring concepts and ideas than laughs (basically, everything Mike Lazzo loathed about cartoons on his watch).  Add that with parodies that went nowhere depending on what side of the world you were on (the cringe that was the High School Musical parody, spoofed ideas from Space Runaway Ideon that were alien to Western viewers save hardcore followers of Tomino’s filmography), and you have a lot of disparate elements that never gelled into a whole and was quickly forgotten on both sides of the ocean.

[PokeNirvash]

"Quickly forgotten," he says as the rest of us fondly reminisce.

[DragonSinger]

2 hours ago, Daos said:

I think two things worked against it in Japan. Japan doesn't seem to like Sci Fi as much as we do in the US. An anime about basketball would probably draw more eyeballs than most Sci Fi you could put out there.

The other thing is Dandy's lack of continuity. Kind of similar to Aqua teen hunger force, where characters would die and then everything would just go back to normal the next episode. From what I've seen they're not usually into that.

 

Superhero stuff does very well and can be considered sci-fi. But like I said earlier and agree with @atomicinumatt, Space Dandy probably could have done better if it was released more recently. Back then, I didn't really have anything to compare it with, but now I can bring up One Punch Man or something like Blood Blockade Battlefront when talking about it now. I really do hate that they advertised it while name dropping Cowboy Bebop because it did cause the wrong expectations. I assumed the same thing going into it, but I wasn't turned off because I grew up on anthology shows like Outer Limits and The Twilight Zone. Once I knew what I was actually watching, it was easier to enjoy the ride. I will always give that show props for making me emotionally invested in a love triangle with a friggin vacuum.

[Toonamiguy321]

4 hours ago, atomicinumatt said:

It is more easily viewed as a financial flop, not that it was not a good show. I mean how much money did it make over in America?

If the discussion was about it being just a financial flop, he would be right on the money. Even back in 2014, the fact that it’s world premier rights had been sold to Adult Swim was a pretty big red flag that this didn’t have high expectations among Japanese audiences. 
 

Why I think he is too hard on it is because while it didn’t make tons of money, it does have a big following of fans. As I noted, every season there are multiple shows that are financial failures because they are shit and most everyone agrees so they don’t sell. Dandy may not have sold well, but it has a modest fanbase. That’s no failure in my book. 
 

1 hour ago, Jman said:

The issue with Space Dandy is that it was very difficult to market.  It was marketed as a madcap comedy but numerous episodes were not funny, more interested in exploring concepts and ideas than laughs

This was a much more noticeable issue in the second cour. Personally, I don’t think those types of episodes are a bad thing, but when you are labeled as a comedy and then are frequently not a comedy, it’s jarring to the viewer. And it’s not a case of “we told jokes that weren’t funny” but was a “we didn’t tell jokes at all”. Identity is important, and that was a big issue in the second half.

 

30 minutes ago, DragonSinger said:

Dandy probably could have done better if it was released

Have to disagree with this take. Stuff like OPM didnt just suddenly take off when it’s anime started. It had a decent following to the webcomic long before the anime started. Anime original projects like Dandy are always on an extreme uphill battle. If it’s first bundle of episode didnt resonate with the audience extremely well, it would have flopped just the same. 
 

If you want Dandy to survive in today’s market, Dandy needs to be an average 20 something living a boring life when suddenly he is hit by a truck and transported to another world where the goddess of reincarnation gives him cheat powers to access all the worlds booty. AotY, with 4 more seasons in the works. 

[atomicinumatt]

30 minutes ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

If the discussion was about it being just a financial flop, he would be right on the money. Even back in 2014, the fact that it’s world premier rights had been sold to Adult Swim was a pretty big red flag that this didn’t have high expectations among Japanese audiences. 
 

Why I think he is too hard on it is because while it didn’t make tons of money, it does have a big following of fans. As I noted, every season there are multiple shows that are financial failures because they are shit and most everyone agrees so they don’t sell. Dandy may not have sold well, but it has a modest fanbase. That’s no failure in my book. 

It is a great anime, and I love it. There is certainly a following to this day, I just feel that it could have been more successful if it was marketed differently. 

SW should not feel bad either, he may have some regrets but it is still an awesome work!

[Toonamiguy321]

25 minutes ago, atomicinumatt said:

It is a great anime, and I love it. There is certainly a following to this day, I just feel that it could have been more successful if it was marketed differently. 

I can agree there. Not sure how they marketed it in Japan, but the way it was in the US was basically “the guy who worked on Bebop worked on this”. That should have just been a bonus, not their core selling point. That warped expectations out of the gate, and it took a couple of months for it to break the “is this a Bebop sequel?” notion among casual viewers. 
 

Demarco has always had a bad habit of putting too much weight on creators, rather than the work itself. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of people who love a certain franchise love the franchise itself, not it’s creator. Just cause a creator made one beloved franchise doesn’t mean everything they crank out is going to be met with the same praise and administration. Market the creation, not the creator. 

[Jman]

Dandy’s a bit reminiscent of Moral Orel, not in content, but in that concept of “show advertised as comedy decides it doesn’t need to be a comedy and wants to focus on other things, only to meet a rather divisive reaction.”  People don’t call it bad, but they were confused by what it was purported to be vs what it was.

For Dandy’s weird, cringe, or otherwise incomprehensible moments, there were genuine flashes of brilliance, laugh out loud episodes, and nothing that could be considered unoriginal. But something that messy and disjointed was never going to get the popularity of “Japanese Beavis who turns into chainsaw monster and fights demons in the hope of scoring.”

Edited January 6, 2023 by Jman

[atomicinumatt]

1 hour ago, Jman said:

But something that messy and disjointed was never going to get the popularity of “Japanese Beavis who turns into chainsaw monster and fights demons in the hope of scoring.”

Lmao I see your point, CSM is definitely the hype right now. 

But I actually it a lot. I read the manga a while ago and think Fujimoto is really good. His other work, Fire Punch is really good too. 

[Sketch]

When Adult Swim promoted it they did mention Cowboy Bebop but they did so in the same breath as Soul Eater and Fullmetal Alchemist which was more less saying Studio Bones made it. They never mentioned Watanabe in the promos but I wonder how the marketing was in Japan.

[DangerMouse]

On 1/5/2023 at 4:52 PM, PokeNirvash said:

"Quickly forgotten," he says as the rest of us fondly reminisce.

This.

Absolutely loved Space Dandy.

(The dub was so damned good too.)

[Blatch]

Dandy is an out-and-out classic, and it marked the beginning of my personal golden age for Toonami. I love to the point where I called it my favorite anime when pressed by a co-worker. Hopefully my kind feelings will get through to Watanabe somehow.

[MasqueradeOverture]

Dandy's reputation is not rotting.

Ｉｔ＇ｓ　ｆｅｒｍｅｎｔｉｎｇ

[naraku360]

On 1/4/2023 at 7:03 PM, Jman said:

Alice in Borderland and the Kenshin films convinced me they should just throw money to Japanese studios and let them do it.

Alice in Borderland is a good adaption for what its worth but really the wrong medium. It would've made more sense to go for a full 50-ish episode anime. They had to cut a lot of things that made the manga as good as it is to compensate for 1. Time, and 2. The fact a long-form live action drama with only 2 short seasons can't really get away with the several volumes worth of content where the protagonist kinda dips out of the story. That and the limitations of live action compared to animation generally.

That said, for what they had to accomplish, the resulting show is markedly better than expected.

 

 

Anyway, all this is to say go read the manga. For all the show's missteps, it was the push needed to finally get a US release and the manga is the better version by a large margin.