2024 Presidential Elections: the schadenfreude commences

[matrixman124]

1 minute ago, Jman said:

We build things for the kids.  This is why I got so concerned when a lot of kid focused websites went offline, because I knew them mixing with adults guaranteed trouble.

I think it's really terrible that this suggests that the kids will have nothing to do without the Internet

[_lost_username_]

3 minutes ago, CountFrylock said:

Problem is if we try to say underage kids should have either limited internet access or none 

then where are they suppose to go?

It’s not like arcades are still around and much of the places children hung out at have either gone out of business or declined to such an extent they might as well be out of business 

if I was a kid today I’d have no idea what to do with my weekend 

 

VR spaces is where the next generation of teenagers will probably be. That’ll be a new load of outrages and headaches.

[CountFrylock]

2 minutes ago, Jman said:

We build things for the kids.  This is why I got so concerned when a lot of kid focused websites went offline, because I knew them mixing with adults guaranteed trouble.

There just doesn’t seem to be any money in that though because we did have kid centric places in the past but they went out of business 

 

[Jman]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

I think it's really terrible that this suggests that the kids will have nothing to do without the Internet

More that kid spaces in general don’t seem as readily available.  Parks, arcades, and yes, websites.  Get your kids into sports.  Give them places to play.  Etc, all.

Granted, my family is a bunch of semi-pro athletes on my dad’s side (he was an all-state wrestler in high school, my brother played lacrosse through college, and I’m a semi-pro grappler who trains with a lot of kids wanting to get into MMA).  I imagine our kids will be doing sports early.

[Master-Debater131]

12 minutes ago, Jman said:

This remains the biggest example of just how weird the messaging was.  In a vacuum, progressive policies won handily when up for voting.  People like giving women bodily autonomy.  They like workers having money.  They like their taxpayer dollars having practical effects.

And yet they all voted for Trump.

I would argue that it was more about individual liberty than anything. In most cases, issues that touched on individual liberty passed. A lot of voters do not think that Democrats represent individual liberty anymore. The actions of the Democratic base and most vocal in the party lead people to think "these people are insane and wont just leave me alone". The economy was still teh biggest issue, but a lot of people are tired of the government trying to dictate their lives.

The Amish vote was huge this time around, and supposedly a lot of the turnout was due to government overreach into the Amish community. They may have handed PA to Trump, and it might have been a direct result of government interference into the Amish community.

[CountFrylock]

5 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

I think it's really terrible that this suggests that the kids will have nothing to do without the Internet

It’s not that they have nothing without the internet but that kids don’t really have many places for them period 

Growing up there  were many activities and businesses catered towards kids 

now there isn’t and kids have to go online to find some semblance of a hang out spot 

because there’s Jack shit for them offline in that department 

[Belize]

31 minutes ago, CountFrylock said:

I don’t exactly have many options right now…my mothers got a social security interview on the 18th but even if that goes anywhere I’m not confident about it due to trump walking into office 

Right now all we can do is sell or pawn stuff to get by 

 

 

You do what you go to do to survive. But I would advise never being dependent on a Trumper. Don't ever give them the time of day. Treat them like how all the normal people in the Star Wars universe treated all the imperials. 

[Master-Debater131]

 

RCP Exit Polling data - Among people who believed that Democracy was "Very Threatened", Trump won by 4 points.

That is a remarkable number when you consider the sheer propaganda that attempted to make Trump the next Hitler.

[discolé monade]

look

fuck ALL your bullshit polls. your inflated sense of political analysis. your hot takes.

fuck that. 

imma tell. you. we BEEN tellin' you. 

IT'S BECAUSE AMERICA HATES BLACK PEOPLE.  BLACK WOMAN. SPECIFICALLY A MIXED BLACK WOMAN.

y'all need to get the fuck out of each others asses. and face the fact, your country is racist. 

always has been always will.  

welcome back to 1852. 

i wonder how long before they start lynching. i wonder if the calm killing act of 1669 will pop back up in the law books?

but i digress. STOP IT. 

THE REASON IS BLACK. 

p.e.r.i.o.d. 

 

[SwimOdin]

1 hour ago, Belize said:

Trump won because at least half of people are horrible, disgusting people who cheer cruelty. This is the moral clarity we need to start with. 

I suspect this wasn't an overwhelming problem for most up till 2015 or so because we successfully had them contained and inhibited some way. The way back to a good state is finding a way to do that again. 

That mindset is how democrats will continue to lose national elections.

[discolé monade]

2 hours ago, Belize said:

Trump won because at least half of people are horrible, disgusting people who cheer cruelty. This is the moral clarity we need to start with. 

I suspect this wasn't an overwhelming problem for most up till 2015 or so because we successfully had them contained and inhibited some way. The way back to a good state is finding a way to do that again. 

trump won. because america is racist. 

we told you. 

but keep analying. please. 

[Belize]

38 minutes ago, SwimOdin said:

That mindset is how democrats will continue to lose national elections.

Telling the truth isn't a mindset, and I'm not worried about national elections while saying it. 

[Master-Debater131]

 

Cenk has been on a tear since the election, and hes been nailing some key points like this one.

[matrixman124]

5 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

 

Cenk has been on a tear since the election, and hes been nailing some key points like this one.

Broken clocks

[Belize]

51 minutes ago, discolé monade said:

trump won. because america is racist. 

we told you. 

but keep analying. please. 

I know. I carefully chose the words of my last post with that in mind. I said, "this wasn't an overwhelming problem for most before 2015", implying it was an overwhelming problem for oppressed groups. The problem needs to be reduced, not growing. It needs to be inhibited to make progress at reducing it. 

 

And yes, African-Americans have been telling us. 

Edited Friday at 06:53 PM by Belize

[rpgamer]

2 hours ago, Jman said:

2026 will have a lot of people hopefully campaigning on “You found out, and how did it feel?”

This is small comfort when it means they don't have to learn anything from their losses, they can just coast on waiting until shit's fucked and expecting to win afterwards.

It's at the core of why so many of the left are disillusioned with their own party. They get in on a message of actually pushing the fight, and when words fail to become action, they lose that support and are rightly kicked out on their asses. But the party fails to see that part coming, doesn't have anyone in place to step in, so they lose to a Republican by simple virtue of supporters simply having no one to vote for.

The party expects everyone to vote blue no matter what. But, if that blue ain't blueing, well.. sure, they're likely not voting red.. but they're more likely to not vote at all, or gamble on a long shot, rather than support a party of failed promises.

Kinda one of the key differences in party voters. One side has turned into a cult that will vote in alignment no matter what, contrasted with a party that can't follow through and doesn't have a cult following, losing support when they fail to deliver.

And they fail to deliver a lot, either by over promising, inaction, or just plain complacency.

A campaign of "Did you learn your lesson?" is exactly what leads us to this point.

[Top Gun]

12 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

 

Cenk has been on a tear since the election, and hes been nailing some key points like this one.

This take is dumb as hell for multiple reasons. For one, how much overlap is there between the Latino men who voted for Hillary 8 years ago, and the Latino men who voted for Trump now? More importantly, is Cenk aware that, y'know, not all Latinos are of Mexican descent? Does he know the gender breakdown of the Mexican presidential election? Y'know, those little inconvenient facts that would even remotely back up his points.

[matrixman124]

7 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

This take is dumb as hell for multiple reasons. For one, how much overlap is there between the Latino men who voted for Hillary 8 years ago, and the Latino men who voted for Trump now? More importantly, is Cenk aware that, y'know, not all Latinos are of Mexican descent? Does he know the gender breakdown of the Mexican presidential election? Y'know, those little inconvenient facts that would even remotely back up his points.

But I think the problem is that Latino men are becoming a scapegoat when the problem is much more complex. Trump got huge gains across all young male demographics. He made huge gains with women who should by all accounts be disgusted with him.

So there is good in Cenk trying to criticize the scapegoating even if his logic is lacking in full evidence.

I lost respect for him years ago when his only answer to stop super PACs was his own super PAC. And he was dead to me when he threw his weight behind Ana Kasparian when she went full TERF.

But I agree with him in this case

Edited Friday at 07:01 PM by matrixman124

[Dark_Cloud_Overhead]

38 minutes ago, discolé monade said:

trump won. because america is racist. 

we told you. 

but keep analying. please. 

There's still a lot of it; that's without question. Just look at the news today about the threatening racist text messages being sent to black people across the country. It's scary stuff. Even if it's not coming from here in the U.S. (some speculation Russia could be behind it), it's happening for a reason and should be looked at and called out for what it is: a terrorist attack. Whether it's physical or psychological, it's just as evil and despicable, and whoever's doing it, they're doing it because they know it'll be effective because of how much hate and fear there is here still.

That said, there isn't any single reason he won. If there were, people would have seen it coming much more easily. The rot that's here has been slowly creeping in and building up for a long time I believe, and that's exactly why trying to root out the causes of it all is gonna be next to impossible at this point. Racism plays a part, misogyny plays a part, the internet and changing media landscape plays a part. It's a toxic stew that's been brewing for quite some time, and I think we should face the fact that there's no easy way to throw it all out now. All we can do is do is our own part in trying to oppose succumbing to it in whatever little ways we can. Expect the worst, but hope for the best. If that sounds overly bleak and cheesy, all I got to say is -- dammit people I'm trying my best to be as optimistic as I can here!

[Master-Debater131]

Found the real reason Harris lost

 

America hates Tims

 

[Belize]

1 hour ago, SwimOdin said:

That mindset is how democrats will continue to lose national elections.

 

In other words, people need to be honest with themselves that at least half of all people are just evil bastards. And you have to start with that. Anything less than that is dangerous false positivity belief. 

Edited Friday at 07:07 PM by Belize

[CountFrylock]

I’m tired of this being the common complaint 

nobody got on the republicans asses for ditching the primary but somehow when the democrats do the same 

it’s “taking choice away from the American people”

 

[naraku360]

29 minutes ago, Belize said:

 

In other words, people need to be honest with themselves that at least half of all people are just evil bastards. And you have to start with that. Anything less than that is dangerous false positivity belief. 

Shut up, dude.

[Jman]

This is the biggest issue as far as I’m concerned.  And it likely will take legal action to demolish the misinformation machine, legal action I don’t think the Left has the will or political muscle to enact.

[Raptorpat]

35 minutes ago, Belize said:

In other words, people need to be honest with themselves that at least half of all people are just evil bastards. And you have to start with that. Anything less than that is dangerous false positivity belief. 

how very Mitt Romney "47 percent" of you

[Belize]

Interesting defending the honor of Trump supporters you guys are going here. 

[Belize]

18 minutes ago, naraku360 said:

Shut up, dude.

I used the word "dangerous" for a reason. If you guys don't know your enemy, you're going to be destroyed by them. 

Edited Friday at 07:55 PM by Belize

[[classic swim]]

Phew, typing so fast! Can’t get the words out right!

[naraku360]

15 minutes ago, Belize said:

Interesting defending the honor of Trump supporters you guys are going here. 

I'm not defending honor of Trump supporters.

I want the world to be a nicer place. Kill them with kindness. It pisses off anyone disingenuous if you don't get mad, and gives room to sway or at bare minimum understand.

[naraku360]

16 minutes ago, Belize said:

I used the word "dangerous" for a reason. If you guys don't know your enemy, you're going to be destroyed by them. 

No, I don't think most are evil bastards.

I think most are in right wing echo chambers that feed them nothing but misinformation.

If you are taught to believe wrong information, you base your views on the wrong information, and therefore vote in accordance. I've been wrong about Trump from time to time, and been disproven on those things, sometimes by people that like him.

Even MD has got me on the odd occasion. Rare, but it happens.

[Belize]

15 minutes ago, [classic swim] said:

Phew, typing so fast! Can’t get the words out right!

 

Yes. It's because of my sincere shock and concern. If you try to appease Trumpers, you guys are going to get hurt.

I've tried to avoid Trumpers for years because I know they are one day away from a rampage. (See January 6th, 2021.)

[Jman]

The saddest part of all of this?

It could have been way worse.

[Belize]

When we're dealing with Trumpers, it's *not* a matter of "Maybe if Harris emphasized unions more, she could have won Michigan".

This is a deeper, older problem. It's "this radical, violent mob is going to crucify people if you don't stand up to them". 

[naraku360]

Just now, Belize said:

When we're dealing with Trumpers, it's *not* a matter of "Maybe if Harris emphasized unions more, she could have won Michigan".

This is a deeper, older problem. It's "this radical, violent mob is going to crucify people if you don't stand up to them". 

I'm not suggesting to go hit up some Proud Boys to try and convert them.

I'm suggesting talking to normal people like they're normal, even if they've fallen for Trump's con.

[_lost_username_]

1 hour ago, Belize said:

 

In other words, people need to be honest with themselves that at least half of all people are just evil bastards. And you have to start with that. Anything less than that is dangerous false positivity belief. 

You can think that but anyone that says it out loud sounds like an asshole to most people, even if in their head they agree.

[Master-Debater131]

25 minutes ago, Jman said:

This is the biggest issue as far as I’m concerned.  And it likely will take legal action to demolish the misinformation machine, legal action I don’t think the Left has the will or political muscle to enact.

I really want to know how anyone can do anything about "misinformation".

For starters, even defining what misinformation is is almost impossible. So many things that were "misinformation" wind up being true. Misinformation is also almost universally in the eye of the beholder. The entire right wing things that the entire media a driver of misinformation. The Left views places like X as nothing but misinformation. Remember the NY Post story about Hunter Biden? It was entirely true, but it was labeled as misinformation at the time. That happens all the time.

Then, assuming you can even define it, how do you enforce it? The 1st Amendment is pretty clear in the openness of speech. There are no laws against lying. You can lie all you want at any point in your life, and its totally legal.

Assuming you figure out a way around that, how do you even begin to apply it to something like the internet? Its not like you can just ban words online, people will figure out ways around them.

And even if you did, it wont stop word of mouth. There was a nation wide rumor that Maralyn Manson removed a rib so he could suck his own dick before the internet took off. Totally word of mouth, but it was everywhere.

 

This isnt an issue that really can be solved in any meaningful way.

[Jman]

There’s some things you could do, but many aren’t feasible.  Surprisingly most of them don’t involve banning networks.

Disclaimers before infotainment saying that the words presented can be false and clear labels when a show is a news show and when a show is an entertainment show.  No getting to rile up people.

Equal time enforcement like the one Trump wanted over the weekend thanks to Kamala’s SNL spot.

Surprisingly enough, fact checking notes on X where disclaimers shut down bullshit.  Create a formal system for such.

Laws providing people access to vetted sources, not Wikipedia.

The same enforcements on internet videos and podcasts that were in public radio.  Namely the fact that people can be reported to a central authority and forced to make retractions, pay fines, or admit they are an entertainment outlet rather than a news show.

You don’t need to ban Hannity from the air so much as slap a giant disclaimer on his face.  Same with Rogan.  He shouldn’t be banned, but he should have disclaimers and be asked to link to sites on science and health news he discussed.

[Insipid]

PA House has Democrat majority.

Good, we aren't a complete shithole red state.

[Master-Debater131]

Interesting ideas. Would that mean that everyone expressing an opinion in a public media space would need a disclaimer?

Virtually the entire media, both legacy and new, are just entertainment at this point. In this system would someone like Colbert have to have a disclaimer on his show whenever he started talking politics or healthcare?

Just trying to see how you think a disclaimer system might work. Its an interesting idea, and it might work to a degree, but to me the question becomes where the line is for needing a disclaimer and not.

[Jman]

7 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Interesting ideas. Would that mean that everyone expressing an opinion in a public media space would need a disclaimer?

Virtually the entire media, both legacy and new, are just entertainment at this point. In this system would someone like Colbert have to have a disclaimer on his show whenever he started talking politics or healthcare?

Just trying to see how you think a disclaimer system might work. Its an interesting idea, and it might work to a degree, but to me the question becomes where the line is for needing a disclaimer and not.

I genuinely believe at the beginning and end of every show, and this includes late night shows, needs something akin to “the following program is presenting news stories via the opinions of the hosts.  They are not meant to be an impartial source of news, nor as entertainment programming, are required to present all the facts.”

You slap it on Colbert, Hannity, anything on a major network or before a major podcast.   You make it clear what is a fact and what is an opinion.  News hours should be forced to present news.  Sans sensationalism.  It might be the only way to unwind us from this infotainment hellscape.

It’d be particularly interesting for Fox News, Newsmax since they run on being news but have argued in court they are entertainment.  Ok, then they should be restricted on how they can use “News” terminology.  You don’t ban the other side, you drag them into the light to be seen.

Edited Friday at 08:55 PM by Jman

[PenguinBoss]

 

[Top Gun]

Y'know that's not doing a lot to disprove my prevailing "masses of dumb drooling rednecks" theory.

[Raptorpat]

55 minutes ago, Insipid said:

PA House has Democrat majority.

Good, we aren't a complete shithole red state.

It appears to be the case that outside of the obvious red state Senate seats that were effectively on loan, there were no red down-ballot tailcoats. The Dems held all the other Senate seats, except (except Casey by a hair, but it's gone into overtime). On the whole, it appears that most everything else broke even/status quo, or shifted from one party to the other by a hair.

[matrixman124]

16 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

Y'know that's not doing a lot to disprove my prevailing "masses of dumb drooling rednecks" theory.

It's more that you only can spot misinformation if you know what to look for. Those who don't have that education are just more susceptible to believing it. It's Brainwashing 101

[Top Gun]

I rest my case.

[1pooh4u]

7 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

I rest my case.

lol a little late for that search. Trump will probably not do this. Dude had no clue what a tariff is cuz he never read about the American revolution 

[Top Gun]

I'm not even joking anymore, I want some sort of basic knowledge test before people are allowed to vote. Dumb motherfuckers need not apply.

[_lost_username_]

29 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

I'm not even joking anymore, I want some sort of basic knowledge test before people are allowed to vote. Dumb motherfuckers need not apply.

It sounds like common sense on its face but remember, these tests were used during Jim Crow to … you know.

A test like that can easily be abused. Like asking a question like “who’s your favorite president” and “do you believe in God?”

[Jman]

Just now, _lost_username_ said:

It sounds like common sense on its face but remember, these tests were used during Jim Crow to … you know.

A test like that can easily be abused. Like asking a question like “who’s your favorite president” and “do you believe in God?”

Civics tests may be more in line with what the Founding Fathers wanted than the Electoral College to be honest.  Not open ended loyalty questions though.

[Insipid]

On 10/25/2024 at 7:18 PM, Insipid said:

It's not a uniquely Ameican phenomenon. Look at the country with the lowest birth rate in the world.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/10/1243819495/elections-reveal-a-growing-gender-divide-across-south-korea

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2024/11/08/trumps-election-has-women-swearing-off-sex-inside-the-4b-movement/76131121007/

 

So it begins. Population decline is coming. It is the single greatest issue that will define the 21st century.