2024 Presidential Elections: the schadenfreude commences

[Belize]

11 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Yeah my wife and I were hit hard by 2016 but I'm honestly just irritated this happened again.

And I don't think there was cheating.

Trump winning the popular vote by over 5 mil is not  a glitch or a sign of cheating

It's a symptom of a much bigger problem that this country will have to deal with probably for the rest of our lives

 

That's why I'm fatalistic in the sense of hating this country now. I don't say that lightly. It's the kind of thing that you don't forgive and it changes one's whole worldview. 

I don't want to be associated with the USA anymore. I would leave if I had an easy way.

[Jman]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

I think if Harris can distinguish herself, she can have a credible second run. She needs to be able to provide clear solutions and clear signs of her support for the people afraid of Trump

She would need to be focused hard on policies and the like, which is always the issue with branding.  I know the GOP would go after her hard on appearances.

[naraku360]

1 hour ago, CountFrylock said:

Democrats need an answer to people like Joe Rogan 

Rogan appeals to uncritical thinkers. That doesn't mean his audience is inherently dumb, some of the smartest people I know (words I don't use lightly) have liked people in the Rogan or Pool sphere since we all have blind spots, but he doesn't encourage much thought or engagement with the content from the audience.

It's much harder to convince people when you want to emphasize solutions rather than be a frequent reminder to the listener about their current predicaments.

These people get fed the problem and unfortunately media needs to actively challenge the audience for the majority to even bother questioning it. It's frustrating that news needs to be entertaining, and there clearly are people who can do it is positive ways as I'm sure my Jon Stewart fanboying would indicate, for masses to care.

Rogan stokes fear, and fear is easy to stoke. Fear doesn't draw democrats. Solutions do, and solution-based thinkers are a minority across every demographic. There isn't a single non-ultra wealthy demographic that benefits from more Trump, and he's been the inciting force of quite a few elites losing all credibility to even the dullest of dullards so they don't benefit much from his general incompetence. The closest to silver lining is the fact that he will accelerate the billionaire brainrot tenfold. A bunch of these moral gutterlings have flown too close to the sun on behest of the literal most obvious con man I've had the displeasure of laying eyes upon.

Edited November 6 by naraku360

[scoobdog]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

I'm gonna level with you, he's appealing to all young guys. White, black, Hispanic, etc

I have a huge issue with the term diversification in the absence of a concerted effort to reach out to other groups, regardless of them choosing to vote for him.  It has nothing to do with "voting against one's own interests:"  I don't believe any of these white guys are voting against their interests.  It just so happens their values align with an openly racist, homophobic, and elitist agenda.

[matrixman124]

Just now, Jman said:

She would need to be focused hard on policies and the like, which is always the issue with branding.  I know the GOP would go after her hard on appearances.

Yeah definitely. But really she just needs to frame it as "You picked Trump over me and now everything has gone to shit. This is your second and last chance"

[matrixman124]

Just now, scoobdog said:

I have a huge issue with the term diversification in the absence of a concerted effort to reach out to other groups, regardless of them choosing to vote for him.  It has nothing to do with "voting against one's own interests:"  I don't believe any of these white guys are voting against their interests.  It just so happens their values align with an openly racist, homophobic, and elitist agenda.

Again, it's not just white guys

[PenguinBoss]

 

[CountFrylock]

At this point I think this will egg people on to imitate trumps behavior because he shows that’s the path to success 

[Jman]

Just now, CountFrylock said:

At this point I think this will egg people on to imitate trumps behavior because he shows that’s the path to success 

It didn’t work for the “Black Nazi” who got thrashed.  Cult leader charisma can’t work for just anyone.

[Insipid]

7 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

What rhetoric specifically?  I don't tend to think Trump's voter base is all that diversified because the message he blasts specifically to uneducated, straight, white older males can work on young males that are not white but still uneducated and straight.

The identity politics. And I'm not only referring to men. Trump gained significantly higher proportions of women and lgbt people this time. Also Muslims.

 

[scoobdog]

Just now, matrixman124 said:

Again, it's not just white guys

I see what I did.  I said "white" instead of "young."

I know they're not white and it doesn't matter.  A lot is being made of Latino men going for Trump when, in fact, there are plenty of examples of toxic masculinity in hispanic culture along with a concerted effort to root it out.  The same applies for black men.

[matrixman124]

1 minute ago, scoobdog said:

I see what I did.  I said "white" instead of "young."

I know they're not white and it doesn't matter.  A lot is being made of Latino men going for Trump when, in fact, there are plenty of examples of toxic masculinity in hispanic culture along with a concerted effort to root it out.  The same applies for black men.

Yeah the problem isn't Latino men or Black men. It's men.

[_lost_username_]

5 minutes ago, Jman said:

She would need to be focused hard on policies and the like, which is always the issue with branding.  I know the GOP would go after her hard on appearances.

Harris is not going to be the nominee again. Parties tend not to run candidates after they lose one national election, especially if they lose both the popular vote and electoral college. Honestly, I see them going back to the formula that worked for them: Run a successful center-leftish candidate from the south or Midwest with a coastal VP. Biden was the single exception but I can’t think of any others after Kennedy. 

[_lost_username_]

One thing I’m sure Democrats won’t do again is run someone over 70 for president. Not sure about Republicans but the damage dementia don will do to the party when he is in office may make them follow the same path.

[Belize]

One interesting take I heard recently is that Trump is unique. Only he can pull off his successful fascist bigot schtick. Anyone else who tries to emulate it fails to gain a following.

 

That's somewhat optimistic implying it's just a singular phenomenon. I don't trust it because it's optimistic though. 

[CountFrylock]

Not looking forward to my neighbor celebrating trumps victory

dude spent so much money on stupid merchandise  money he could have used on more important things…. Trump merchandise  that’s what he spent money on

 

[Jman]

1 minute ago, Belize said:

One interesting take I heard recently is that Trump is unique. Only he can pull off his successful fascist bigot schtick. Anyone else who tries to emulate it fails to gain a following.

 

That's somewhat optimistic implying it's just a singular phenomenon. I don't trust it because it's optimistic though. 

It’s kind of true though.  Trump had a brand through his media empire and shows.  None of the other GOP do.

[scoobdog]

1 minute ago, Insipid said:

The identity politics. And I'm not only referring to men. Trump gained significantly higher proportions of women and lgbt people this time. Also Muslims.

I'll have to see some kind of data to corroborate that (and I'm not asking you because I know that's not something you could have at this point), but it's mostly immaterial given that Trump won a popularity vote despite being openly hostile to the same groups you mention.

Identity politics hasn't come up much as of late because it's mostly become an afterthought... and rightly so.  It's an artificial term; covertly used to label people for voting based on their personal values without openly using racist terminology and primarily on conservative platforms where such sentiment is safe.  However, it doesn't apply to Hollywood so neatly.  If you're suggesting that Hollywood should go broke for pursuing openly LGBTQIA+, black, latino programming, then you're reducing all of the pertinent value systems to stereotypical behavior.

[matrixman124]

10 minutes ago, _lost_username_ said:

Harris is not going to be the nominee again. Parties tend not to run candidates after they lose one national election, especially if they lose both the popular vote and electoral college. Honestly, I see them going back to the formula that worked for them: Run a successful center-leftish candidate from the south or Midwest with a coastal VP. Biden was the single exception but I can’t think of any others after Kennedy. 

I think she has a shot as long as she can distinguish herself from Biden

Hilary was always going to be bogged down with her political  baggage but there is a comeback story in a second Harris campaign that isn't weighed down by Biden

[naraku360]

55 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Honestly I would argue that the reason we had such high turnout from the young guys demographic is because of the digital landscape. I wouldn't put the blame completely on that but it's what mobilized that demographic.

Listening to Musk, Rogan, Tate, Shapiro, etc

And yeah I think the closest thing we got to the opposite to that was breadtube and the above personalities flourished because of the backlash to more progressive media

Unfortunately, Breadtube suffers from in-fighting and frequent grifters. There are very few spheres I've dropped off more people from than politics, and a noteworthy number have been Breadtubers who "left the left" eventually, became faux-progressive Stalinists, were exposed for being abusers, or have no principles. Many were white guys, but it was a very diverse group of people that's dwindled to a select few and most of the people I follow now were pre-Breadtube. I think the closest to Breadtube I pay attention to now is, like, shark3ozero who moved away from them after Breadtubers were calling him/white knighting people who called him shit like a "house c**n," or people generally disliked by them.

GOP gets away with it because the grift is the message and loyalty doesn't matter. It's all a money game. Progressives have to sift through bad actor after bad actor. The GOP just finds a new talking head to replace the last one.

[scoobdog]

11 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Yeah the problem isn't Latino men or Black men. It's men.

I believe Insipid also pointed out that there were significant women and LGBTQIA+ representation in Trump's orbit as well.   That doesn't change the fact Trump's message wasn't to any of them.  He wasn't speaking to black people, he wasn't speaking to gay people, he wasn't speaking to women.  He was only speaking to straight white older men.

[matrixman124]

Good take

[matrixman124]

11 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

I believe Insipid also pointed out that there were significant women and LGBTQIA+ representation in Trump's orbit as well.   That doesn't change the fact Trump's message wasn't to any of them.  He wasn't speaking to black people, he wasn't speaking to gay people, he wasn't speaking to women.  He was only speaking to straight white older men.

Tell that to them

[Insipid]

14 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

I believe Insipid also pointed out that there were significant women and LGBTQIA+ representation in Trump's orbit as well.   That doesn't change the fact Trump's message wasn't to any of them.  He wasn't speaking to black people, he wasn't speaking to gay people, he wasn't speaking to women.  He was only speaking to straight white older men.

I don't disgaree with you there. He's the ultimate con man who somehow appealed to a variety of people. As for how or why, at least for now, I don't care to know. I just accept it. Cognitive dissonance for me is getting old.

[matrixman124]

Just now, Insipid said:

I don't disgaree with you there. He's the ultimate con man who somehow appealed to a variety of people. As for how or why, at least for now, I don't care to know. I just accept it. Cognitive dissonance for me is getting old.

People are upset and he gave them a terrible terrible solution to solve their problem.

Their bigotry is why they liked the solution

[scoobdog]

1 hour ago, matrixman124 said:

Tell that to them

Tell them what?  I know why all these men voted for a racist bigot, and it has everything to do with the outdated brand of  masculinity that he espouses.  Men have a vested interest in voting for the  man who isn't going to ask them to adapt to a new world order.

[SwimOdin]

I’ll be going on a John Mulaney-esque bender for the next four years, wish me good fortune…

[_lost_username_]

Kind of weird to see but Trump’s percentage of both white men and women decreased. A continued gradual increase from 2016 and 2020. What hurt Harris is Trump gained 15 percent more of the Latina vote from 2020 and Trump won 10 percent more of the Latino vote than Harris. She also had a lower percentage of black males who are voting less Democratic every election since Clinton.

Source: https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/politics/2020-2016-exit-polls-2024-dg/index.html

[_lost_username_]

Looking at the demographics from my previous post — Gen-X really failed, yo.

[naraku360]

2 minutes ago, _lost_username_ said:

Looking at the demographics from my previous post — Gen-X really failed, yo.

More like ex-Gen.

We breaking up, dipshits.

[Insipid]

13 minutes ago, _lost_username_ said:

Looking at the demographics from my previous post — Gen-X really failed, yo.

As mother says, and she's part of it, Generation Xtra Chromosome

[André Toulon]

11 hours ago, Distortedreasoning said:

democracy working as intended.

i wonder who they will blame to explain their loss. 

LGBTQ.

Young men

Black men

Latino men

Gen X

Groceries

Kamala

Jill

 

[Belize]

I agree that a Republican trifecta (presidency, House, Senate) would be a catastrophe for the world, but also keep in mind the limitations. *Democrats* held a trifecta with almost 60 Senate seats from 2009 to 2011, and it was hard as hell getting things done. 

[Master-Debater131]

Ahhh what a fun day this has been. Ive been consuming all sorts of Liberal media today to see if they have learned anything at all from last night, and so far the answer is No. Even here the obvious answers are being discredited for the old tropes. Harris lost because of racism, sexism, the country is full of Nazis, or people are just too stupid to understand whats good for them.

The biggest issue was the economy, and no matter what people are told they do not feel that the economy is working for them. When groceries cost what they do, people will never believe you when you say "trust me, the economy is good". Abortion also was not the game changing issue that Democrats thought it would be. Women didnt vote in lock step for a single issue abortion campaign, but instead they acted like most other voting groups and weighed different positions to decide who to vote for. Across the country Abortion issues won at the state level, but then didnt translate into enough votes at the top of the ticket. That issue is working exactly how SCOTUS said it should, its a State issue, and States are figuring it out. Missouri, a blood red state, passed an Abortion resolution while voting overwhelmingly for Trump.

Last night also clearly showed that there is a realignment between the working class and the elites, and the GOP is clearly becoming the party of the working class. Trump made massive gains among minority men, and particularly working class men. This continues a trend that we have seen for a while now where Men, particularly working class men, are trending toward the GOP. Men, in general, also showed up in ways that they havent before (more on that in a different post). For all the talk about the gender gap among women carrying Harris over the line, the Democratic weakness among Men absolutely offset that. Married Women also tend to vote more Republican than Democrat, and it looks like they showed up last night.

In the cases where this is brought up by commentators, those commentators are instantly browbeat into submission and not allowed to expand on that. Democratic pundits still fully believe that the only reason that Harris lost is because of racism, sexism, and Nazis.

Inflation, Crime, Immigration, all considered back-seat issues to the real driver why Harris lost, racism, sexism, and Nazis. Democrats had learned this lesson after 2016 when they nominated Biden in 2020 to win the working class vote, but then abandoned it right away this year in favor of playing identity politics with a wealthy elite woman from a wealthy elite background.
 

Oh, and you shouldnt have killed that squirrel.

[scoobdog]

1 hour ago, naraku360 said:

More like ex-Gen.

We breaking up, dipshits.

Seriously, though.... Fuck Gen X. 

[scoobdog]

Just now, Master-Debater131 said:

Ahhh what a fun day this has been. Ive been consuming all sorts of Liberal media today to see if they have learned anything at all from last night, and so far the answer is No. Even here the obvious answers are being discredited for the old tropes. Harris lost because of racism, sexism, the country is full of Nazis, or people are just too stupid to understand whats good for them.

The biggest issue was the economy, and no matter what people are told they do not feel that the economy is working for them. When groceries cost what they do, people will never believe you when you say "trust me, the economy is good". Abortion also was not the game changing issue that Democrats thought it would be. Women didnt vote in lock step for a single issue abortion campaign, but instead they acted like most other voting groups and weighed different positions to decide who to vote for. Across the country Abortion issues won at the state level, but then didnt translate into enough votes at the top of the ticket. That issue is working exactly how SCOTUS said it should, its a State issue, and States are figuring it out. Missouri, a blood red state, passed an Abortion resolution while voting overwhelmingly for Trump.

Last night also clearly showed that there is a realignment between the working class and the elites, and the GOP is clearly becoming the party of the working class. Trump made massive gains among minority men, and particularly working class men. This continues a trend that we have seen for a while now where Men, particularly working class men, are trending toward the GOP. Men, in general, also showed up in ways that they havent before (more on that in a different post). For all the talk about the gender gap among women carrying Harris over the line, the Democratic weakness among Men absolutely offset that. Married Women also tend to vote more Republican than Democrat, and it looks like they showed up last night.

In the cases where this is brought up by commentators, those commentators are instantly browbeat into submission and not allowed to expand on that. Democratic pundits still fully believe that the only reason that Harris lost is because of racism, sexism, and Nazis.

Inflation, Crime, Immigration, all considered back-seat issues to the real driver why Harris lost, racism, sexism, and Nazis. Democrats had learned this lesson after 2016 when they nominated Biden in 2020 to win the working class vote, but then abandoned it right away this year in favor of playing identity politics with a wealthy elite woman from a wealthy elite background.
 

Oh, and you shouldnt have killed that squirrel.

We didn't want to hear more from you, in case you missed it. 

[matrixman124]

6 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Ahhh what a fun day this has been. Ive been consuming all sorts of Liberal media today to see if they have learned anything at all from last night, and so far the answer is No. Even here the obvious answers are being discredited for the old tropes. Harris lost because of racism, sexism, the country is full of Nazis, or people are just too stupid to understand whats good for them.

The biggest issue was the economy, and no matter what people are told they do not feel that the economy is working for them. When groceries cost what they do, people will never believe you when you say "trust me, the economy is good". Abortion also was not the game changing issue that Democrats thought it would be. Women didnt vote in lock step for a single issue abortion campaign, but instead they acted like most other voting groups and weighed different positions to decide who to vote for. Across the country Abortion issues won at the state level, but then didnt translate into enough votes at the top of the ticket. That issue is working exactly how SCOTUS said it should, its a State issue, and States are figuring it out. Missouri, a blood red state, passed an Abortion resolution while voting overwhelmingly for Trump.

Last night also clearly showed that there is a realignment between the working class and the elites, and the GOP is clearly becoming the party of the working class. Trump made massive gains among minority men, and particularly working class men. This continues a trend that we have seen for a while now where Men, particularly working class men, are trending toward the GOP. Men, in general, also showed up in ways that they havent before (more on that in a different post). For all the talk about the gender gap among women carrying Harris over the line, the Democratic weakness among Men absolutely offset that. Married Women also tend to vote more Republican than Democrat, and it looks like they showed up last night.

In the cases where this is brought up by commentators, those commentators are instantly browbeat into submission and not allowed to expand on that. Democratic pundits still fully believe that the only reason that Harris lost is because of racism, sexism, and Nazis.

Inflation, Crime, Immigration, all considered back-seat issues to the real driver why Harris lost, racism, sexism, and Nazis. Democrats had learned this lesson after 2016 when they nominated Biden in 2020 to win the working class vote, but then abandoned it right away this year in favor of playing identity politics with a wealthy elite woman from a wealthy elite background.
 

Oh, and you shouldnt have killed that squirrel.

Nobody cares about the squirrel 

[Jman]

Yeah, you had me at the groceries, then lost me there.

Also I stand by GOP policies not being popular given how many policies on the ballots were defeated and passed and their breakdown, but the GOP has way better messaging with an army of online apologists.  The Democrats need to create something equivalent if they want to do better past the inevitable anger that will hit the GOP come midterms.

[Master-Debater131]

For the candidates, Trump is Trump. We all know who he is, and we have all had 4 years of him being President. So his status was already set.

Harris, on the other hand, was an absolutely horrible candidate from Day 1. Anyone who is honest with themselves would see that. She failed to gain a single vote in the primaries, and flamed out before her own state of California was ever able to vote for her. Tulsi Gabbard ended her campaign in 2020 before it ever got going.

Prior to being anointed as the nominee this year she was one of the most unpopular VPs in American history. At no point did people ever have a favorable opinion of her. If there was an actual open primary following the palace coup against Biden she would not have won. But Democrats couldnt do that because it risked shattering their coalition, something that may have happened anyway.

She was the most artificial candidate we have ever seen, and couldnt even find a way to answer some of the most basic questions asked of her.
"What would you do different from Biden?"

"Nothing"

Thats as politically tone deaf an answer as you can possibly have when everything suggested people are not happy with the direction of the country.

The VP pick wasnt any better. She went with Waltz because she couldnt go with the Jewish Shapiro. The antisemitic wing of the Democratic party was simply too strong for her to go with the much smarter and more politically adept pick of Shapiro. Waltz turned into a huge liability and did nothing to help bring rural voters, particularly men, into the Democratic fold. His debate performance was horrible, and he was just weird.

Vance on the other hand clearly demonstrated an ability to communicate with people, and his performances on those podcasts are a huge reason why men showed up for Trump.

Joe Rogan wound up potentially being kingmaker this year. Harris flat out refused to go to Rogan to do the podcast. Trump, Vance, and Trump surrogate Musk all made sure to go to that podcast. A three hour conversation that made them all seem like perfectly normal people. Harris absolutely needed to do that, and she didnt. Those conversations perfectly pierced the media bubble that Trump is Hitler. No one who listened to those podcasts would think that. Baron Trump apparently was instrumental in having the Trump campaign lean into these podcasts to get to these voters.

[naraku360]

13 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Ahhh what a fun day this has been. Ive been consuming all sorts of Liberal media today to see if they have learned anything at all from last night, and so far the answer is No. Even here the obvious answers are being discredited for the old tropes. Harris lost because of racism, sexism, the country is full of Nazis, or people are just too stupid to understand whats good for them.

The biggest issue was the economy, and no matter what people are told they do not feel that the economy is working for them. When groceries cost what they do, people will never believe you when you say "trust me, the economy is good". Abortion also was not the game changing issue that Democrats thought it would be. Women didnt vote in lock step for a single issue abortion campaign, but instead they acted like most other voting groups and weighed different positions to decide who to vote for. Across the country Abortion issues won at the state level, but then didnt translate into enough votes at the top of the ticket. That issue is working exactly how SCOTUS said it should, its a State issue, and States are figuring it out. Missouri, a blood red state, passed an Abortion resolution while voting overwhelmingly for Trump.

Last night also clearly showed that there is a realignment between the working class and the elites, and the GOP is clearly becoming the party of the working class. Trump made massive gains among minority men, and particularly working class men. This continues a trend that we have seen for a while now where Men, particularly working class men, are trending toward the GOP. Men, in general, also showed up in ways that they havent before (more on that in a different post). For all the talk about the gender gap among women carrying Harris over the line, the Democratic weakness among Men absolutely offset that. Married Women also tend to vote more Republican than Democrat, and it looks like they showed up last night.

In the cases where this is brought up by commentators, those commentators are instantly browbeat into submission and not allowed to expand on that. Democratic pundits still fully believe that the only reason that Harris lost is because of racism, sexism, and Nazis.

Inflation, Crime, Immigration, all considered back-seat issues to the real driver why Harris lost, racism, sexism, and Nazis. Democrats had learned this lesson after 2016 when they nominated Biden in 2020 to win the working class vote, but then abandoned it right away this year in favor of playing identity politics with a wealthy elite woman from a wealthy elite background.
 

Oh, and you shouldnt have killed that squirrel.

What a worthless waste of time it was to read the first three paragraphs.

You're a deeply unlikable person.

[matrixman124]

2 minutes ago, naraku360 said:

What a worthless waste of time it was to read the first three paragraphs.

You're a deeply unlikable person.

My eyes glazed over when she went on about the "Anti-Semitic wing of the Democratic party"

Oh you mean the one who actually wants to stop the genocide

And Harris literally was stuck with Biden since she is still the VP of his presidency. It was impossible for her to disavow him. And I do agree that didn't help her but it's ridiculous to suggest she could have just shit on him the whole time

Edited November 6 by matrixman124

[Belize]

Not to judge, but have you tried completely ignoring those posts? Not even a snarky insult. 

[stilgar]

Go fuck yourself md. Your rights are gonna get fucked just like every other trans person. You ain't special and they ain't gonna spare you.

[ghostrek]

7 hours ago, Insipid said:

Donald Trump has managed to diversify the Republican party. It is quite impressive and horrible.

Speaking as a Midwesterner conservatism and right-wing thinking is pretty common for most population groups. I know gay people that was against gay marriage?

[Satou Kazuma]

20 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Oh, and you shouldnt have killed that squirrel.

Fuck that dead squirrel. Dude was looking for clout and never sought out to registered a license until it was too late, after the complaints.

[ghostrek]

Just now, ghostrek said:

Speaking as a Midwesterner conservatism and right-wing thinking is pretty common for most population groups. I know gay people that was against gay marriage?

I'm not saying that's common but I met people like that and I'm not being mean I just  know a lot of people in the midwest or like that especially the suburbs and rural areas @Insipid

[André Toulon]

Congrats MD, I'm nothing if not an advocate for smug jackasseey, 

Barring the idea of election tampering, the right won and to me it's already time to get over it. The game is over, I can't stand bellyaching unless it's mine and I'm fully aware of the hypocrisy in that. 

But my honesty will always champion the rustling of Jimmies

[Jman]

 

[matrixman124]

4 minutes ago, Jman said:

 

Yeah pretty much!

[Insipid]

Nabs should be temporarily allowed back.