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OwlChemist81

Toonami Unevenedge Ratings Discussion 3.0: Let The Good Times Roll!!!!!

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Posted (edited)

Carry-over from last page!

UPDATED: SHOWBUZZDAILY’s Top 150 Saturday Cable Originals & Network Finals: 1.2.2021 | Showbuzz Daily

Final-Cable-2021-Jan-02-SAT.png

"Adult Swim’s late-night line-up performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL at 0.22/396K, SWORD ART UNDERWORLD at 0.19, FIRE FORCE at 0.19, ASSASSINATION CLASSROOM at 0.18, GEMUSETTO at 0.16/277K & 0.16/274K, NARUTO at 0.17/297K, and DEMON SLAYER at 0.11/223K."

Super didn't even crack 400K to start the new year. Is this the new benchmark?

Edited by OwlChemist81
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That's an oddly large drop in 18-49 for Demon Slayer after Shippuden. Funny how GSDB being a rerun didn't seem to affect it at all.

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Brace yourselves, folks, because this is just BAD:

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-saturday-cable-originals-network-finals-1-9-2021.html

image.thumb.png.aa12fe7a01f633038bc01574fd18370a.png

For some weird reason people were either just watching Football or CNN all day and all night. AOT alone came in at #43, SAO #53, and it wasn't even close to Top 50 for everything else. The last time Toonami even did close to this bad was with that bomb night back on 7/6/19.

I think it's time to face the facts: Dragonball Super is NOT working as a rerun lead-in. AOT should just kick off the block after Family Guy and slot a new show after 12:30, but damn, if things don't improve from here, it's gonna be a bad year for Toonami.

But maybe this is an outlier. It seems that ever since 1/5, news channels have been dominating the Top 50, first with GA Election coverage, and then with coverage of the horrible age-defining event which took place on 1/6. In fact, it seems that at least on Saturday, news's stranglehold on the Top 50 was beginning to wane as CNN failed to claim the #1 slot; the popular Wrestling program AEW Dynamite only managed #48 on Wednesday night, and Battlebots didn't even make the Top 50 on Thursday night. Looked at through that lens, a #43 debut for the final season of AOT might not be that bad. But I still think Toonami would do well to counterprogram a marathon against Wild Card Saturday from here on out.

"Adult Swim’s late-night line-up performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL down 0.04 to 0.18/232K, ATTACK ON TITAN at 0.12, SWORD ART UNDERWORLD down 0.08 to 0.11, FIRE FORCE down 0.09 to 0.10, ASSASSINATION CLASSROOM down 0.08 to 0.10, GEMUSETTO at  0.09/154K & 0.09/152K compared to last week’s 0.16/277K & 0.16/274K, NARUTO down 0.05 to 0.12/218K, and DEMON SLAYER down 0.01 to 0.10/164K." 

Edited by OwlChemist81
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Wow. Wolf Blitzer.

 

It's almost as if a ....... massive assault on the very fabric of democracy as we know it took place in the days since December. 

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I was one of the CNN watchers. I literally have it on my TV 24/7 now. I’ve kind of lost interest in the block for the time being since there’s so much craziness happening. 

Wolf Blitzer rules! He does his show 7 days a week
 

Edited by brianycpht
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The one good thing is, there's nowhere to go but up for Titan now, like Food Wars before it.

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Gee, when terrorists try to take over the capital to install an unelected despot, that takes priority over cartoons!  AOT got screwed over badly.

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Attack on Titan? Sorry ... too busy watching Attack on Capitol.

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1 hour ago, Daos said:

Attack on Titan? Sorry ... too busy watching Attack on Capitol.

I kinda felt like it was over on Wednesday, and the episode ended with Biden's being confirmed in the wee hours Thursday morning (but I couldn't sleep until MSNBC's "Final Vote" showed 270 for Biden). Thursday and Friday I pretty much didn't watch much coverage other than maybe the 3 Primetime shows (Rachel, Lawrence, and Brian), but Saturday I was just done with the whole thing. All football and basketball until Toonami time!

That's typically how I operate these days. MSNBC Monday-Friday, sports and Toonami on Saturday. I also usually mix in wrestling on weeknights.

 

Edited by OwlChemist81

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The inauguration was today.  The hope is that without the nutcase in the White House people will calm down some.

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Full numbers are in:

"Adult Swim’s late-night line-up performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL down 0.01 to 0.17/363K, ATTACK ON TITAN up 0.01 to 0.13, SWORD ART UNDERWORLD up 0.01 to 0.12, FIRE FORCE down 0.01 to 0.09, ASSASSINATION CLASSROOM down 0.01 to 0.09, SSSS GRIDMAN at 0.09, NARUTO down 0.03 to 0.09/203K, and DEMON SLAYER down 0.02 to 0.08/168K."

The gulf between Dragon Ball Super and Attack on Titan is large as ever, even though DBS is down to Pop Team Epic levels at this point.

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2 minutes ago, OwlChemist81 said:

Full numbers are in:

"Adult Swim’s late-night line-up performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL down 0.01 to 0.17/363K, ATTACK ON TITAN up 0.01 to 0.13, SWORD ART UNDERWORLD up 0.01 to 0.12, FIRE FORCE down 0.01 to 0.09, ASSASSINATION CLASSROOM down 0.01 to 0.09, SSSS GRIDMAN at 0.09, NARUTO down 0.03 to 0.09/203K, and DEMON SLAYER down 0.02 to 0.08/168K."

The gulf between Dragon Ball Super and Attack on Titan is large as ever, even though DBS is down to Pop Team Epic levels at this point.

SAO went up?? Woah.

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Though y'all might like to see this:

What follows are the Live + Same Day rating results for the night’s select cable telecasts on Saturday, January 16 (with the night’s cable ranks according to households, total viewers and demo ratings in parentheses):

Final Space (repeat) (Adult Swim, 8:00 PM, 30 min.) • 0.200 million viewers [#892] • 0.093 million adults 18-49 • 0.07 A18-49 [#502] • 0.07 A25-54 [#703] • 0.03 A55+ [#1219]

American Dad (repeat) (Adult Swim, 8:30 PM, 30 min.) • 0.197 million viewers (lol) [#901] • 0.09 HH • 0.111 million adults 18-49 • 0.09 A18-49 [#369] • 0.08 A18-34 • 0.08 A25-54 [#600] • 0.04 A55+ [#1166]

American Dad (repeat) (Adult Swim, 9:00 PM, 30 min.) • 0.241 million viewers [#712] • 0.14 HH • 0.122 million adults 18-49 • 0.09 A18-49 [#290] • 0.06 A18-34 • 0.09 A25-54 [#486] • 0.07 A55+ [#947]

American Dad (repeat) (Adult Swim, 9:30 PM, 30 min.) • 0.274 million viewers [#600] • 0.17 HH • 0.156 million adults 18-49 • 0.12 A18-49 [#180] • 0.08 A18-34 • 0.13 A25-54 [#239] • 0.07 A55+ [#947]

Rick & Morty (repeat) (Adult Swim, 10:00 PM, 30 min.) • 0.266 million viewers [#622] • 0.17 HH • 0.158 million adults 18-49 • 0.12 A18-49 [#172] • 0.08 A18-34 • 0.15 A25-54 [#194] • 0.05 A55+ [#1085]

Rick & Morty (repeat) (Adult Swim, 10:30 PM, 30 min.) • 0.312 million viewers [#485] • 0.20 HH • 0.188 million adults 18-49 • 0.15 A18-49 [#112] • 0.09 A18-34 • 0.18 A25-54 [#126] • 0.05 A55+ [#1030]

Family Guy (repeat) (Adult Swim, 11:00 PM, 30 min.) • 0.383 million viewers [#322] • 0.237 million adults 18-49 • 0.18 A18-49 [#54] • 0.21 A25-54 [#75] • 0.08 A55+ [#863]

Family Guy (repeat) (Adult Swim, 11:30 PM, 30 min.) • 0.443 million viewers [#246] • 0.273 million adults 18-49 • 0.21 A18-49 [#26] • 0.23 A25-54 [#59] • 0.09 A55+ [#767]

Read more: https://programminginsider.com/saturday-ratings-easy-buffalo-bills-victory-ignites-nbc-to-over-20-million-viewers/#cable-sd

So yeah, the news is to blame.

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Can’t say I’m surprised.  
 

Even with the Orange Man gone for now, we still have a crapload of problems to deal with which will keep folks glued to the news.

Also, expect Demon Slayer reruns to do a lot worse now.

 

 

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A surprising show leads Toonami, and a few others slip past the news to chart in 18-49:

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-saturday-cable-originals-network-finals-1-23-2021.html

image.thumb.png.02b8d114865aac3a6770013a2934ef57.png

So far, only DBS, SAO, Ass Class, and Fire Force have cracked 300K total viewers in 2021. After 3 weeks, the final season of AOT still hasn't done it. And, while AOT did best the 1 AM hour in total viewers, its performance in key demos just seemed inferior.

Of course, UFC was the big story last weekend, but maybe this weekend is the weekend Toonami finally catches something resembling a break?

Edited by OwlChemist81
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UPDATE:

"Adult Swim’s late-night line-up performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL down 0.06 to 0.11/267K, ATTACK ON TITAN down 0.01 to 0.12, SWORD ART UNDERWORLD up 0.01 to 0.13, FIRE FORCE up 0.05 to 0.14, ASSASSINATION CLASSROOM up 0.02 to 0.11, SSSS GRIDMAN up 0.01 to 0.10, NARUTO up 0.01 to 0.10/183K, and DEMON SLAYER steady at 0.08/155K."

Fire Force winning the night on Toonami in 18-49 CONFIRMED, plus it beat Danger Force on Nick, officially making it the best "Force" on Saturday night!!

 

Edited by OwlChemist81
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So hopefully without UFC to compete with, Toonami will do much better next week.

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Demon Slayer is in the US Netflix Top 10.

It’s been said before, but it’s amazing how much greater their reach is with shows that have been on Toonami for a while.

Apparently the rumor is the Chainsaw Man anime will be a Netflix exclusive.  It’d be perfect for Toonami admittedly.

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Yeah I see it's currently #9. And if that just doesn't say everything about how little reach Toonami has now. It happened with JoJo of course and supposedly One Piece. It's a bit of a head scratcher but Adult Swim programming arguably goofed by premiering Demon Slayer at 1:30am. Sure at the time they had OPM season 2 and MHA was just weeks away but they even put it behind Food Wars (which admittedly was doing well at the time). They moved it up once other shows ended but by then it was too late for anyone to care. Way to squander the biggest new show of 2019. Hopefully they learn from that.

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Considering DeMarco’s tried and true tactic of “get the rights so Netflix can’t”, I genuinely wonder if Toonami is inhibiting the popularity of a lot of these shows, or if their success is despite Toonami, like in the case of MHA.

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On 1/27/2021 at 6:25 AM, Jman said:

Considering DeMarco’s tried and true tactic of “get the rights so Netflix can’t”, I genuinely wonder if Toonami is inhibiting the popularity of a lot of these shows, or if their success is despite Toonami, like in the case of MHA.

Uh well MHA came out years before Toonami was able to get it.

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14 hours ago, Daos said:

Uh well MHA came out years before Toonami was able to get it.

And had it gotten on Toonami as either a dub premiere for season 1 or maybe up to a year after the dub premiered on FUNimation, then Toonami might have actually had a notable impact on its popularity back in 2016 and 2017. I guess we'll never know. Now Toonami definitely benefits more for having MHA than MHA benefits from being on Toonami (this is also true of DBS of course). But you can't really say that about many of the other popular shounen. Attack on Titan breaks CR weekly but that's not translating to anywhere near the performance it once had on Toonami.

The way things have been going makes me feel like any show that's popular enough for people to watch it in Japanese when it comes out isn't likely to bolster Toonami's performance, especially if they air less than a season behind Japan. MHA is really the only outlier to that, but as well as it does on Toonami, it is unquestionably more of a powerhouse on streaming services.

Netflix hasn't gotten Attack on Titan beyond season 1. I get the feeling if they were able to get the other seasons it would have ranked in their top 10 plenty of times even if it wasn't available dubbed. MHA could have cleaned up on Netflix as well even if it was uploaded until 6-12 months after the simulcast. I hate how Netflix doesn't simulcast and how most of their exclusives don't get home video releases but I cannot deny that they the top dog when it comes to offering anime to the general public. Even if they had all of CR and Aniplex's backlog, FUNimation's service won't ever have that kind of reach outside of the anime viewing community.

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As long as retention's decent, I don't care how low the ratings go anymore.

Besides, I'd pin the blame more on Super reruns continuing to shit up the front half-hour than Attack on Titan returning with most of the cast being literally whos.

Edited by PokeNirvash
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All the big shows are available elsewhere, and that’s screwing with them.

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Burned out Rick and Morty reruns and Final Space at 10:30 probably did no favors as well.

Edited by wjbraden
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Well, Super actually didn't do too shabby, considering...

"Adult Swim’s late-night line-up performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL up 0.03 to 0.14/311K, ATTACK ON TITAN up 0.02 to 0.14, SWORD ART UNDERWORLD down 0.02 to 0.11, FIRE FORCE down 0.04 to 0.10, ASSASSINATION CLASSROOM down 0.02 to 0.09, SSSS GRIDMAN down 0.03 to 0.07, NARUTO down 0.02 to 0.08/167K, and DEMON SLAYER up 0.01 to 0.09/157K."

At least AOT kept pace with Super this week in the target demographic this week, even if it lost considerably in total viewers.

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I'm thinking Final Space moving to 10:30 like hurt the 11pm hour of Family Guy and prime time in general. I'd like to see those numbers if we ever get them.

Titan held DBS quite well and after it beat DBS in demos last week it really makes you wonder how Titan would do without DBS reruns ahead of it.

Seems like people didn't start Gridman and the people who did are decreasing in number every week. It's a shame but it does make their decision not to move it up seem a tad more reasonable. It's probably not going to see a significant increase in viewership even at 1am so there's no sense screwing over the other shows for its sake. I just really wish it didn't turn out this way. Mecha other than gen:LOCK keep getting the shaft on Toonami.

Hopefully Ass Class can bounce back with it's move to 1am. If it can't then they really screwed the pooch by pushing it so late when it was doing well.

Edited by Sketch

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It is a shame with Gridman, but the show is over two years old, Toonami sucks dick at promotion, repeatedly, and it’s early on a block that isn’t bringing home the audience anymore.  And it pains me to say that but most, if not all of the audience, the anime audience which is tech savvy by nature so it can watch this stuff, has moved on to greener pastures.

If Demon Slayer is any indication, the show would do great on Netflix.

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Clearly it's not all, considering it isn't getting zero viewers, but I get your point.

Edited by PokeNirvash

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18 hours ago, Sketch said:

I'm thinking Final Space moving to 10:30 like hurt the 11pm hour of Family Guy and prime time in general. I'd like to see those numbers if we ever get them.

Titan held DBS quite well and after it beat DBS in demos last week it really makes you wonder how Titan would do without DBS reruns ahead of it.

Seems like people didn't start Gridman and the people who did are decreasing in number every week. It's a shame but it does make their decision not to move it up seem a tad more reasonable. It's probably not going to see a significant increase in viewership even at 1am so there's no sense screwing over the other shows for its sake. I just really wish it didn't turn out this way. Mecha other than gen:LOCK keep getting the shaft on Toonami.

Hopefully Ass Class can bounce back with it's move to 1am. If it can't then they really screwed the pooch by pushing it so late when it was doing well.

At this point Gridman is what it is, I guess. I just hope this doesn't sink our chances of getting sequel/spin off SSSS.Dynazeon, coming out in April 2021, on the block!

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After such a dismal January, reversal of fortune in February? Well, kinda!

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-saturday-cable-originals-network-finals-2-6-2021.html

image.thumb.png.3932a820c3907a0194de65686acd2250.png

Well, I guess the 5th time's the charm, as AOT's final season finally joins the 300K+ club with its 5th episode, and manages 3rd place with 18-34 among cable originals. Also, SSSS.Gridman hits a new series high, and FINALLY makes its Top 50 debut as SAO, Fire Force, and Ass Class also make returns to the Top 50.

Could this be the effect of Toonami actually showing something completely new in Cosmo Samurai, even if it's just a microseries?

Edited by OwlChemist81
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Update:

"Adult Swim’s late-night line-up performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL up 0.07 to 0.21/367K, ATTACK ON TITAN up 0.05 to 0.19, SWORD ART UNDERWORLD up 0.06 to 0.17, FIRE FORCE up 0.05 to 0.15, ASSASSINATION CLASSROOM up 0.04 to 0.13, SSSS GRIDMAN up 0.06 to 0.13, NARUTO up 0.03 to 0.11/220K, and DEMON SLAYER steady at 0.09.170K."

Super still can't crack 400K in 2021...

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23 minutes ago, OwlChemist81 said:

Update:

"Adult Swim’s late-night line-up performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL up 0.07 to 0.21/367K, ATTACK ON TITAN up 0.05 to 0.19, SWORD ART UNDERWORLD up 0.06 to 0.17, FIRE FORCE up 0.05 to 0.15, ASSASSINATION CLASSROOM up 0.04 to 0.13, SSSS GRIDMAN up 0.06 to 0.13, NARUTO up 0.03 to 0.11/220K, and DEMON SLAYER steady at 0.09.170K."

Super still can't crack 400K in 2021...

Just like the week before, Final Space probably ruined the momentum. But a curious thing did happen as well, where the second Family Guy rerun pre-Toonami did worse than the first. Wonder if that was the case again this week?? Nevertheless, it's high time for a primetime overhaul.

Edited by wjbraden
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As much as I'd love to see that, what do you do? I would do the following:

DBS (move from Toonami or Episode 15), Final Space, R&M, AD×3, FG×2

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32 minutes ago, OwlChemist81 said:

As much as I'd love to see that, what do you do? I would do the following:

DBS (move from Toonami or Episode 15), Final Space, R&M, AD×3, FG×2

Well, if it were up to me, the Ricks would be gone-zo and Toonami would start at 11 with Super moved to 8 like you mention, but I just can't see anything like that happening.

Probably the most do-able realistic thing they could do right now is what you mention, with the exception of Super being swapped out for MHA (I don't see them going back to episode 15, it's too redundant) or stealing a Bob's airing or two from somewhere.

 

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cable is dead ぶ仮塩

People could be watching it. Problem is their target audience has mostly cut cable and Neilson doesn't count shit like Hulu Live (which I have) or YouTube TV.

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5 hours ago, Sketch said:

Here's another case of "gee I wish this success helped Toonami even a little bit"

https://www.cbr.com/attack-on-titan-most-popular-series-united-states/

Attack on Titan is the most popular show available to watch the US right now (apparently by some metrics) but it can barely manage even 300,000 viewers on Toonami this year.

I saw the SPOILERS. i KNOW. -_-

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5 hours ago, Sketch said:

Here's another case of "gee I wish this success helped Toonami even a little bit"

https://www.cbr.com/attack-on-titan-most-popular-series-united-states/

Attack on Titan is the most popular show available to watch the US right now (apparently by some metrics) but it can barely manage even 300,000 viewers on Toonami this year.

I would say that Toonami's ability to get conventional ratings peaked around Season 1 of OPM, and it was after that where streaming absolutely exploded into becoming the default method of consuming media for a lot of the country, especially anime and other types of prestige format television, which by definition tends to skew younger, towards a demographic that was more willing to embrace the technology and cast aside DeMarco's more old-fashioned way of thinking.  It now is at the point where people want the material to come to them, rather than 

The success of Demon Slayer on Netflix has been my big example to go to.  It was doing middling ratings for Toonami, then it airs on Netflix and becomes one of the most watched shows on the platform overnight.  So much so I would bet Netflix is probably eyeing Mugen Train as soon as it's available.  Same with One Piece.  Gets cancelled after it does middling to bad ratings on Toonami, airs on Netflix, somehow becomes one of the most binged shows on the platform.  

DeMarco is an old fashioned TV man.  Shows when he says, once a week, on his schedule.  And people are not having it anymore.

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Samurai Jack also did well. The peak so far was a random episode of DBZ Kai, which did 2.015M viewers on August 8, 2015.

That was kind of a shocker since it happened at a time that cable was waning and streaming was picking up steam, so I'm pretty sure that will NEVER be eclipsed.

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I think we’re past the point of things being on the block being a primary means of exposure. It certainly helps broaden its awareness a bit, but the fact that many didn’t even know Demon Slayer was dubbed until it was on Netflix and Funimation says a lot about the current state of TV

We’re the last vestiges of a gone by era 

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Toonami going off the air in 2008 hurt--a lot!

There are STILL people who watched Dragon Ball Z on CN Toonami that don't know Toonami ever came back on the air on Adult Swim!

I guess they're just always busy with other stuff on Saturday nights and never bothered to tune in!

Edited by OwlChemist81
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3 minutes ago, OwlChemist81 said:

Toonami going off the air in 2008 hurt--a lot!

There are STILL people who watched Dragon Ball Z on CN Toonami that don't know Toonami ever came back on the air on Adult Swim!

I guess they're just always busy with other stuff on Saturday nights and never bothered to tune in!

Things have changed a great deal. I see people constantly on Twitter talking about how great Toonami was. They refer to it in the past tense. Even when it’s pointed out that it’s still on the air, they still argue that it’s not the same block as the one they grew up with. Toonami isn’t introducing people to things on a mass scale like they used to. I think they still point casual people who don’t watch anime to things they wouldn’t seek out. I’ve also seen those same people watch the second seasons of things Toonami introduced them to online and never watch Toonami’s eventual airing. It’s happening right now with Titan, Stone, and TPN

Unless we go back to the times where you simply could not easily get shows until they aired on television, it’s just not going to be the force it was

its not going anywhere, but the excitement and purpose  it used to have is not the same 

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And that's why key to Toonami's survival is its own original shows. Even Cosmo Samurai, Toonami's first real original animation in 2021 (unless you count the bumps) seems to be having that effect on the ratings. We don't know how Dragon Ball Super did in 18-34, but the episode of AOT that followed is the ONLY known show to crack 0.2 in Adults 18-34 this year!

I say "seems to" only because its actual effect is still somewhat inconclusive with only one data point. We'll have half the data by tomorrow, though!

Edited by OwlChemist81

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16 hours ago, Jman said:

I would say that Toonami's ability to get conventional ratings peaked around Season 1 of OPM, and it was after that where streaming absolutely exploded into becoming the default method of consuming media for a lot of the country, especially anime and other types of prestige format television, which by definition tends to skew younger, towards a demographic that was more willing to embrace the technology and cast aside DeMarco's more old-fashioned way of thinking.  It now is at the point where people want the material to come to them, rather than 

The success of Demon Slayer on Netflix has been my big example to go to.  It was doing middling ratings for Toonami, then it airs on Netflix and becomes one of the most watched shows on the platform overnight.  So much so I would bet Netflix is probably eyeing Mugen Train as soon as it's available.  Same with One Piece.  Gets cancelled after it does middling to bad ratings on Toonami, airs on Netflix, somehow becomes one of the most binged shows on the platform.  

DeMarco is an old fashioned TV man.  Shows when he says, once a week, on his schedule.  And people are not having it anymore.

I'm thinking since they list Fuji TV for One Piece, that it's counting not only Netflix but also Hulu, Crunchyroll and FUNimation but regardless that's wild to see on a US chart. I know people have been enjoying Wano but there's no doubt in my mind that Netflix is the primary reason One Piece is doing that well right now. Netflix only ever had the first season of Attack on Titan (subbed) but even that's gone now. Gotta wonder how well it would have done if they kept adding more episodes.

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