Looking for constructive ideas

[Still Me]

Back story: 

Boy (14 autistic) has his own debit card so that when he does chores or has a birthday, money is loaded on and he can use it or save it. It was built as an effort for him to learn the value of money. 
 

2 months ago, boy managed to get debit card onto his google account, and spent $200+ on a freemium game called “cookie run”. 
 

boys account is monitored by mother and it flagged as unusual and that’s how we found out about it and subsequently punished by taking all his electronics away, deleting payment info from the google account, and explaining what a pay to win game was. He then said he wouldn’t do it again and that we assumed was the end of it.

2 or 3 weeks ago he had his debit card taken away for spending too much at school for snacks (like $70 in snacks bro…) so his mother took it and put it in her office. Then sometime during the night, he went into her office and snapped a photo of his card and put it back into the google account. 

then about a week ago we get a call that he has spent another $200 on that fucking cookie run game. Took away all his electronics again, deleted the card again, and was told if he’s seen playing that game again he’s getting a flip phone. Now he has to have the phone back for when he’s in school, but when he’s home he loses it. But apparently when he was at school he redownloaded the game. And he’s still not getting anything entertainment wise back. 
 

but at this point we’re at a loss of how to punish him. Cause clearly taking things away are not the answer, it does nothing. Last night I had him write me a one page (front and back) essay about why spending money on a game like that is bad and what he’s going to do to stop. And today he has to right me another one page essay about why paying attention in class is important (separate issue, email from teacher) and why education is important. And later today we are buying him a book that he is going to be required to read and write an essay on what it was about.

does anyone else have a recommendation for another constructive punishment? Cause I don’t think this is working either

[Raptorpat]

How does he respond to the punishment at the time?

[The_annoying_one]

I’ve never had a great track record when it comes to disciplining kids, since I don’t have any of my own, so I really don’t know what to say. Sorry.

[Still Me]

8 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

How does he respond to the punishment at the time?

He says he’s sorry. The most recent time he did cry…but for the most part he’s detached 

[ghostrek]

 I'm bad with money myself

@Still Me I usually get myself 40 bucks a week out of my paycheck to use for personal use maybe a similar idea use cash or a prepaid credit/debit card thing until he gets a handle of the money situation.

I wonder if the kid was attracted to those games due to social rejection also A lot of people compensate either by spending or eating.

My idea is works for me I always give myself 40 bucks out of my paycheck so I don't spend my paychecks into the ground unless i have to spend it to the ground to pay bills

Edited September 16, 2023 by ghostrek

[katt_goddess]

A thought, maybe figure out a way to work with his game obsession. Make him learn coding and graphics stuff to make his own potential game. And make him write it all down physically in a notebook before even attempting to code it. That way he will either get frustrated and stop or get focused and learn something super useful.

And switch him to a flip phone, no more free range card.

[André Toulon]

Stop giving him money and make him get a job. Whataburger, Braums and Golden Chick all hire 14 year olds (assuming you're still in tx)

I think we would need to know more about where he is on the spectrum to even begin to give advice though.

[André Toulon]

Whataburger might require a permit and parents to sign off on it iirc

[discolé monade]

5 minutes ago, André Toulon said:

Stop giving him money and make him get a job. Whataburger, Braums and Golden Chick all hire 14 year olds (assuming you're still in tx)

I think we would need to know more about where he is on the spectrum to even begin to give advice though.

this is kind of what i was going to say. 

dont' give him money. make him get a job for money. and get him a flip phone. 

[Gemini]

5 minutes ago, André Toulon said:

Stop giving him money and make him get a job. Whataburger, Braums and Golden Chick all hire 14 year olds (assuming you're still in tx)

I think we would need to know more about where he is on the spectrum to even begin to give advice though.

4 minutes ago, André Toulon said:

Whataburger might require a permit and parents to sign off on it iirc

Yes, because if I remember correctly, you can’t get a job until you’re 16 here in Texas. Of course, there are certain exceptions, but, even then, I think they have to be documented. (Like special hardship cases and such.)

[Insipid]

I bet you're marginally involved with the kid, if at all. My constructive idea is to fuck off with this shit.

[Still Me]

4 minutes ago, Insipid said:

I bet you're marginally involved with the kid, if at all. My constructive idea is to fuck off with this shit.

And you would be wrong but you can kindly fuck off

[André Toulon]

25 minutes ago, André Toulon said:

Whataburger might require a permit and parents to sign off on it iirc

In case you're wondering about TX child labor laws and want to hear from someone with a child and has actually looked into it, 14 year olds can work in TX.

https://www.twc.texas.gov/jobseekers/texas-child-labor-law

I wouldn't listen to anything that is apparently even less than anecdotal you may hear.

[Gemini]

3 hours ago, André Toulon said:

In case you're wondering about TX child labor laws and want to hear from someone with a child and has actually looked into it, 14 year olds can work in TX.

https://www.twc.texas.gov/jobseekers/texas-child-labor-law

I wouldn't listen to anything that is apparently even less than anecdotal you may hear.

They must’ve changed the law then. All right. I’ll admit that I’m wrong. Thank you for the correction.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Gemini

[1pooh4u]

If it’s all his own money that he’s earned one way or the other and he’s not stealing let him spend it. When he runs out of $ and needs something he can’t get because he spent all his $ he’ll learn. 
 

or you can try talking to him to find out why he’s so impulsive and what exactly is he thinking when he dumps his $ into a freemium game.  Maybe he needs help w impulse buying 

[André Toulon]

3 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said:

If it’s all his own money that he’s earned one way or the other and he’s not stealing let him spend it. When he runs out of $ and needs something he can’t get because he spent all his $ he’ll learn. 
 

or you can try talking to him to find out why he’s so impulsive and what exactly is he thinking when he dumps his $ into a freemium game.  Maybe he needs help w impulse buying 

The thing about kids dumping money into games seems odd to most of us because we already know how hard money is to come by but my kids were throwing money at fortnite, sims I minecraft every time they got their allowance.

At first it pissed me off and I drove myself crazy explaining to them that dumping all this money into the game was a scam, but then I remembered at their age I was throwing all my money away on cigarettes and weed....How can I actually judge them.

But as I said, the situation fixed itself once they had to punch a clock for money. Buddy is still kind of irresponsible but he's light-years better than he was when I was putting a few bucks on his card every month.

[1pooh4u]

22 minutes ago, André Toulon said:

The thing about kids dumping money into games seems odd to most of us because we already know how hard money is to come by but my kids were throwing money at fortnite, sims I minecraft every time they got their allowance.

At first it pissed me off and I drove myself crazy explaining to them that dumping all this money into the game was a scam, but then I remembered at their age I was throwing all my money away on cigarettes and weed....How can I actually judge them.

But as I said, the situation fixed itself once they had to punch a clock for money. Buddy is still kind of irresponsible but he's light-years better than he was when I was putting a few bucks on his card every month.

I didn’t learn the value of money until I hit my 30s. Nothing adults said to me helped when I was younger but I definitely remembered every word eventually.  Most people though definitely appreciate it more when they gotta work for it themselves. Even more when you start having bills to pay.  Idk how autistic people process information though, so it might just be a matter of explaining in a way they can understand. 

[Doom Metal Alchemist]

If him having a flip phone instead of a smartphone is feasible, I think that's a great idea.

Another thing you/the caretaker(s) can do is pay him in cash. He can spend his cash on whatever he wants in the non-virtual world, but if he wants to spend online, he has to show the care takers what he wants, and the caretakers can either go, "no, you're not getting that," or "ok, I'll order that for you" and then he can reimburse the caretakers with his cash.

[Still Me]

43 minutes ago, Doom Metal Alchemist said:

If him having a flip phone instead of a smartphone is feasible, I think that's a great idea.

Another thing you/the caretaker(s) can do is pay him in cash. He can spend his cash on whatever he wants in the non-virtual world, but if he wants to spend online, he has to show the care takers what he wants, and the caretakers can either go, "no, you're not getting that," or "ok, I'll order that for you" and then he can reimburse the caretakers with his cash.

We were actually just discussing the cash option. He used to have cash but someone duped him out of it once. Like he paid some kid $20 for 4 jolly ranchers…😐

[ghostrek]

42 minutes ago, Still Me said:

We were actually just discussing the cash option. He used to have cash but someone duped him out of it once. Like he paid some kid $20 for 4 jolly ranchers…😐

$20 for 4   jolly rancher.  have him do grocery shopping and point out the prices.

so may I ask is this child mainstreamed in classes or in a special ed classroom or mixture of both.

I'm asking this because I was in special ed two and some people have scammed special ed students out of a lot of money @Still Me

and other gullible things they did.

Edited September 16, 2023 by ghostrek

[Still Me]

He’s in regular classes with assistance from the resource department 

[ghostrek]

13 minutes ago, Still Me said:

He’s in regular classes with assistance from the resource department 

that is interesting because  this reminds me of a friend I had in school. His 16th birthday just was that very day and a bunch of kids  gave him a set of keys and he got all excited and all but In fact the keys But belong to a teacher at school. I don't know how the other kids didn't get in trouble for stealing the keys I don't know but But that did happen

 

[ghostrek]

@Still Me   but i would be talking to the school if i was you . About some of this stuff . Also especially at the IEP metings .  because if they doesn't seem to have intellectual   grasp of there behavior or is is in fact based on a psychological need of compensation of some kind of problem real or perceived There will be issues.

Speaking of someone that had IEP and was in special education or got help because of IEPs kids are cruel. I often speak of the time when I was in school that the kids were handing out of petition trying to stop me from getting my tests read or actually trying to stop the kids that have test read to them as part of their  IEP.

But to me this sounds like it's an issue that is also a maybe stems from a psychological side of things.  Like I said people often compensate by buying or eating things. Special ed kids are no different.

Edited September 16, 2023 by ghostrek

[André Toulon]

⚰️

[scoobdog]

I’d like to point out he has “a job” of sorts in the sense he’s getting money for chores.  So, while getting an actual job is certainly better than paying him to do stuff he should be doing anyway, it doesn’t really change the dynamic.

What seems to be missing is any obligation.  If he had a job, he’d have to pay for a bus pass to get to work or he’d need to buy work clothes.  Most kids don’t get jobs because they like working, they get jobs to support a livelihood, like athletics, music, an extracurricular hobby, or (god forbid) putting food on the table.   It looks like he doesn’t have any actual purpose for that money other than that shitty phone game and nothing he needs to buy to support his phone game habit.

So, getting a job will help, but what you really need to do is give him a hobby or activity to support.  I would start with whatever after school programs you have that are centered on arts or craftsmanship.

[André Toulon]

Nah man, I paid kids for chores...it's not the same as punching a clock. 

Cleaning your room and doing the dishes at your leisure is way different than having to tweak your sleep and play schedule to adhere to the arbitrary whims of your chosen servitude. 

Your parents may say "ok, I want that trash taken out when your game is over"....that luxury isn't afforded to you when Pixiecut McCuntnuggets is upset that her burger came with onions.

All that said, since she hasn't even acknowledged that suggestion, I just assume this kid working isn't an immediate option anyway.

[Still Me]

5 hours ago, André Toulon said:

Nah man, I paid kids for chores...it's not the same as punching a clock. 

Cleaning your room and doing the dishes at your leisure is way different than having to tweak your sleep and play schedule to adhere to the arbitrary whims of your chosen servitude. 

Your parents may say "ok, I want that trash taken out when your game is over"....that luxury isn't afforded to you when Pixiecut McCuntnuggets is upset that her burger came with onions.

All that said, since she hasn't even acknowledged that suggestion, I just assume this kid working isn't an immediate option anyway.

It isn’t. Kid has extracurriculars and certainly a mother who would not allow it. Not to mention, dad didn’t agree with said suggestion either.

what we had started doing prior was refusing to buy things for him, regardless of what they were. Making him the only source of drinks, snacks, activities, hell he had to buy all his school supplies. But what that turned into was him telling his mother that we “leave him to fend for himself”. 

[discolé monade]

have the adults in this matter all spoken together? because that's the first thing. making sure you are all on board. 

if you don't have that, then nothing matters. trust me. it's horrible when you lay down the laws, that you hope they carry through, and they get to the other house, and nothing is 

carried through, or the other adults don't want to cooperate, and rather just bash. so...that's the first thing. 

 

[André Toulon]

If the parents ain't with it, it's on them, but the kids only work weekends and Buddy is in debate and basketball. 

On the off chance they overlap, his job HAS to let him off because he's 14. So it allows him around 12-16 hours a week which is just enough to make him responsible for his own entertainment.

But again, that's a mom and dad battle and I'm not trying to get into the politics of the family dynamic here, but when buddy decides to snitch to his mama, I send him right on over there where he's the man of the house and has CHORES chores.....I don't have to worry bout Neff. Daddy's girl gonna be daddy's girl.... She'd much rather clean her room instead of an entire apartment.

[André Toulon]

Just now, discolé monade said:

have the adults in this matter all spoken together? because that's the first thing. making sure you are all on board. 

if you don't have that, then nothing matters. trust me. it's horrible when you lay down the laws, that you hope they carry through, and they get to the other house, and nothing is 

carried through, or the other adults don't want to cooperate, and rather just bash. so...that's the first thing. 

 

This

[Still Me]

1 hour ago, discolé monade said:

have the adults in this matter all spoken together? because that's the first thing. making sure you are all on board. 

if you don't have that, then nothing matters. trust me. it's horrible when you lay down the laws, that you hope they carry through, and they get to the other house, and nothing is 

carried through, or the other adults don't want to cooperate, and rather just bash. so...that's the first thing. 

 

Oh yeah that’s the one thing that’s been awesome. Punishments are carried in both households. Hell I told his mom that we were buying a book for him to read that he had to read 5 chapters a day no exceptions and she’s on board

[scoobdog]

9 hours ago, André Toulon said:

Nah man, I paid kids for chores...it's not the same as punching a clock. 

Cleaning your room and doing the dishes at your leisure is way different than having to tweak your sleep and play schedule to adhere to the arbitrary whims of your chosen servitude. 

Your parents may say "ok, I want that trash taken out when your game is over"....that luxury isn't afforded to you when Pixiecut McCuntnuggets is upset that her burger came with onions.

All that said, since she hasn't even acknowledged that suggestion, I just assume this kid working isn't an immediate option anyway.

I wasn’t suggesting they were the same, just that the job doesn’t impart any more sense of what things are worth on its own.

It would be interesting to know what his extracurricular activities are.  Spending money on a freemium game suggests that he’s not particularly invested in any of those activities.

[Still Me]

45 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

I wasn’t suggesting they were the same, just that the job doesn’t impart any more sense of what things are worth on its own.

It would be interesting to know what his extracurricular activities are.  Spending money on a freemium game suggests that he’s not particularly invested in any of those activities.

Band and drama

[Gemini]

5 minutes ago, Still Me said:

Band and drama

Buy him a book on Shakespeare.

[Raptorpat]

On 9/16/2023 at 1:01 PM, Still Me said:

He says he’s sorry. The most recent time he did cry…but for the most part he’s detached 

Yeah I'm wondering if he's actually like emotionally connecting the overspending to the punishment. Like does he internally recognize it's bad to overspend when he gets in trouble? Or did he just cry purely because he was punished?

One thing in his defense though is that "properly" developed freemium games are intentionally addictive. Every aspect is geared towards instant gratification dopamine hits and they are literal poison.

[Gemini]

9 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

Yeah I'm wondering if he's actually like emotionally connecting the overspending to the punishment. Like does he internally recognize it's bad to overspend when he gets in trouble? Or did he just cry purely because he was punished?

One thing in his defense though is that "properly" developed freemium games are intentionally addictive. Every aspect is geared towards instant gratification dopamine hits and they are literal poison.

This. Hell, South Park did an episode on this very thing.

[Still Me]

2 hours ago, Raptorpat said:

Yeah I'm wondering if he's actually like emotionally connecting the overspending to the punishment. Like does he internally recognize it's bad to overspend when he gets in trouble? Or did he just cry purely because he was punished?

One thing in his defense though is that "properly" developed freemium games are intentionally addictive. Every aspect is geared towards instant gratification dopamine hits and they are literal poison.

I’m not entirely sure. It’s a hard bet with a kid like him, I feel like all his reactions to negative is the inappropriate reaction. 
 

and yeah I get it games are addictive but it’s a situation that if not rectified now could potentially lead to more damaging ones.

I did however watch this guy going over others finances and it’s a common thing that younger generations don’t typically see the value of money outside of paying bills. So they don’t save when they should or don’t have emergency money when they should 

[ghostrek]

3 hours ago, Still Me said:

Band and drama

that's kind of weird  because those things cause people to have a deeper internal life and not necessarily need a lot of freemium entertainment.

 Maybe get them into a activity that causes him to have more of an internal life .

[ghostrek]

2 hours ago, Raptorpat said:

Yeah I'm wondering if he's actually like emotionally connecting the overspending to the punishment. Like does he internally recognize it's bad to overspend when he gets in trouble? Or did he just cry purely because he was punished?

One thing in his defense though is that "properly" developed freemium games are intentionally addictive. Every aspect is geared towards instant gratification dopamine hits and they are literal poison.

That's why I don't play in many of those anymore

[Raptorpat]

1 hour ago, Still Me said:

I’m not entirely sure. It’s a hard bet with a kid like him, I feel like all his reactions to negative is the inappropriate reaction. 

This is probably the crux of the issue. If negative reactions and punishments aren't breaking through to him, then they will only serve as a temporary roadblock instead of a learning experience (in fact he could be learning the wrong things, like how to sneak it around his parents). That's probably a question for his therapist if he has one.

[scoobdog]

10 hours ago, Still Me said:

Band and drama

Does he enjoy doing either?

[Still Me]

19 hours ago, scoobdog said:

Does he enjoy doing either?

Yeah, I think so. He joined them of his own volition

[scoobdog]

2 minutes ago, Still Me said:

Yeah, I think so. He joined them of his own volition

In that case, not sure what he can channel his money into.  Assuming he doesn't have his own instrument and he's not playing anything particularly large (like a tuba, or a bass drum), it might be a good idea to suggest he save up to purchase his own.  If he's keen on it, a lot of decent used "student" instruments can be purchases in the $2-300 range.  

[Still Me]

2 hours ago, scoobdog said:

In that case, not sure what he can channel his money into.  Assuming he doesn't have his own instrument and he's not playing anything particularly large (like a tuba, or a bass drum), it might be a good idea to suggest he save up to purchase his own.  If he's keen on it, a lot of decent used "student" instruments can be purchases in the $2-300 range.  

Na he owns his flute already…