So, apparently Montana has banned tik tock

[nameraka]

Bringing the total of things to do for fun in Montana from 5 to 4...

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by nameraka

[discolé monade]

 hmmm. 

so a couple of things.
how will this be monitored? how will people be fined/punished? montana is a 2nd amend. state, and i'm just curious WHY states/counties/cities are SO fucking gullible to believe this shite, is so that 'they' can defend OTHER unconstitutional bullshit?....but i digress. 

 

also, i found this rich. 
"The Chinese Communist Party using TikTok to spy on Americans, violate their privacy, and collect their personal, private, and sensitive information is well-documented," Gov. Gianforte said.

[Master-Debater131]

1 down, 49 to go.

 

If Congress wasnt trying to use this to shoehorn in one of the worst pieces of legislation ever I would get on board with their plan. But they cant just ban tiktok, they have to try and totally take over the internet in the process.

[discolé monade]

4 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

1 down, 49 to go.

 

If Congress wasnt trying to use this to shoehorn in one of the worst pieces of legislation ever I would get on board with their plan. But they cant just ban tiktok, they have to try and totally take over the internet in the process.

which part is keeping you from getting on board? 

[Master-Debater131]

2 minutes ago, discolé monade said:

which part is keeping you from getting on board? 

The part where the bill isnt a simple bill to ban TikTok but essentially the Patriot Act on steroids and applied to the internet. It gives the alphabet agencies farrrrrr to much control over the internet and the ability for government to simply ban any website it wants without even having evidence of any sort of wrongdoing. Dont like a website? Poof! Gone!  That kind of power is so open for abuse that its truly terrifying.

Heres a quick rundown of the bill:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/04/could-tiktok-ban-bill-criminalize-vpn-use-the-eff-says-its-not-impossible/

[discolé monade]

entertain an old lady, would you?

let's say montana makes this happen; as is happening with the '2nd amendment cities' - which are in fact a complete violation of said amendment, 

how would you percieve the monitoring of who is using it? couldn't 'they', in fact, just create a '14th amendment state'? 

[Master-Debater131]

Not sure what the 2nd amendment has to do with anything here. Banning an App has nothing to do with going door to do checking phones. Montana can simply instruct ISPs to block all traffic from TikTok and hold them liable for any breach of the law. If they wanted it off of phones then cell providers would be forced to push an update that blocks the function of the app itself.

 

All of this is done without ever looking a person in the face. Its by some programmer somewhere in an office.

[discolé monade]

i'm asking, because like the ridiculous 2nd amend city/county/state, this TOO is ridiculous. but the 2nd amend is already in full force,

and if it's done/shut down by some programmer in montana, what would happen when another programmer could just do the dark web version (i don't know how the dark web works, i know it's there though),

 how and who is going to monitor this? what is the punishiment?

it just seems that the GOP would have better things to focus on. i guess i'm just sort of rambling on. 

this country is so lost. it can't even see that we are a 3rd world nation. 
 

 

[Master-Debater131]

Theres a huge difference between 2A and an app. One involves an object you own and can hold, the other is just a bunch of 1s and 0s.

In one case you would have to go door to door asking for weapons and hoping no one shoots you.

In the other you can simply block internet traffic to a designated destination. Are there ways around that? Sure. You could use a VPN like everyone in Utah is doing to get to pornhub.But you would eliminate more than 90% of the traffic to that website.

 

TikTok is a legitimate threat to the US so it absolutely deserves scrutiny. In an ideal world the bill to ban TikTok would simply be a nationwide digital privacy law that protects people from all social media, google, amazon, etc. But thats not our world. So instead we got that abomination in Congress and piecemeal attempts to block tiktok like this.

[stilgar]

Tiktok is not a threat to the United States you weirdo. 

[scoobdog]

5 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Theres a huge difference between 2A and an app. One involves an object you own and can hold, the other is just a bunch of 1s and 0s.

In one case you would have to go door to door asking for weapons and hoping no one shoots you.

In the other you can simply block internet traffic to a designated destination. Are there ways around that? Sure. You could use a VPN like everyone in Utah is doing to get to pornhub.But you would eliminate more than 90% of the traffic to that website.

 

TikTok is a legitimate threat to the US so it absolutely deserves scrutiny. In an ideal world the bill to ban TikTok would simply be a nationwide digital privacy law that protects people from all social media, google, amazon, etc. But thats not our world. So instead we got that abomination in Congress and piecemeal attempts to block tiktok like this.

I'm with Disco.  The concept of a "2nd Amendment Jurisdiction" is certainly apropos for the situation given that it's a local jurisdiction attempting to regulate interstate functions even if it's not specifically about bestowing or releasing rights that are not theirs to give or take.  First off, how do you ask a company in California that provides service in Montana to restrict access to a product that is legal in California?  Apple's App Store isn't hosted in Montana, nor are any of the programmers who work on it.  Furthermore, whereas app stores might be restricted by region, they are restricted based on where that region hosts its servers and where international law limits access to applications for users in that region.  No such restriction exists inside of the United States, only outside of it.  You can't legally build an internet firewall in a place where no such firewall is feasible.

[Seight]

Thank God Montana's dance moves are safe from the clutches of the Chinese government!

...wait, can people in Montana dance?

[katt_goddess]

Just now, Seight said:

Thank God Montana's dance moves are safe from the clutches of the Chinese government!

...wait, can people in Montana dance?

Only with sheep and that doesn't get posted on TikTok. Its on like PornFarm or something.

[Sieg67]

The issue with Tik Tok is the unapologetic gathering of user data.  Yes other apps and services collect data but apparently Tik Tok is taking it to a new level.  So much so that the app has become a concern for national security and governments world wide have been banning it on official devices.   What amplifies this concern is our distrust of China and the apps connection to the country as it's been alleged that the CCP has backdoor access.

So China may be using our data for nefarious means.   What do we do?  Some say you could just ban Tik Tok.    What's stopping the app from popping back up under a different name?
The proposed solution is giving the government the ability to ban apps from US adversaries and preventing workarounds like VPNs for the apps.  I don't believe this means that any foreign app will automatically be banned.

I understand that it's believed this would cause an overreach and a complete policing of our internet but I have my doubts that ramifications would be that large...but I could be wrong.
 

 

My personal hatred of Tik Tok is it's ability to turn people into complete morons.  Tons upon tons of mind numbing garbage and dumb-asses doing dumb shit for Tik Tok clout.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Sieg67

[Master-Debater131]

16 hours ago, scoobdog said:

I'm with Disco.  The concept of a "2nd Amendment Jurisdiction" is certainly apropos for the situation given that it's a local jurisdiction attempting to regulate interstate functions even if it's not specifically about bestowing or releasing rights that are not theirs to give or take.  First off, how do you ask a company in California that provides service in Montana to restrict access to a product that is legal in California?  Apple's App Store isn't hosted in Montana, nor are any of the programmers who work on it.  Furthermore, whereas app stores might be restricted by region, they are restricted based on where that region hosts its servers and where international law limits access to applications for users in that region.  No such restriction exists inside of the United States, only outside of it.  You can't legally build an internet firewall in a place where no such firewall is feasible.

The psychical site of a server does not matter for where the data is retrieved, or where it is blocked. Websites routinely alter their services depending on the region that they are providing service for. ESPN absolutely region blocks content for live sports, and pornhub just blocked the entire state of Utah from their website. Its laughably easy to region lock websites and apps. Everyone is acting like this is some huge technological hurdle when it really isn't.

[1pooh4u]

Seems like enforcement will be on bytedance and apple google play w/e they’ll be fined for each day( month year wtf knows) they allow the app to be available in Montana. Citizens of Montana will not face any penalties at all. So here’s the thing if the app still generates enough revenue to ngaf about the fines, nothing is going to change.  Irdk I guess this is in a similar vein as states that want more than “check the over 18 box” for sites like porn hub. 

[André Toulon]

I'm on the fence with this whole thing, but here's a forum weapon anyway.

 

[scoobdog]

55 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

The psychical site of a server does not matter for where the data is retrieved, or where it is blocked. Websites routinely alter their services depending on the region that they are providing service for. ESPN absolutely region blocks content for live sports, and pornhub just blocked the entire state of Utah from their website. Its laughably easy to region lock websites and apps. Everyone is acting like this is some huge technological hurdle when it really isn't.

Sure it does.  How do you stop someone from retrieving that data? ESPN only blocks based on account information (based on the service provider account you input) which means you can theoretically travel to a city that has blocked a game’s broadcast and still see that game on your app.   If you attempt to block based on an IP address… well we know how that ends up based on dynamic addresses and VPNs.

It all comes down to where an account is registered, and that’s the problem.  Unless you punish the actual user directly, there are too many work arounds that make it impossible to stop Tik Tok from being used in Montana.

[nameraka]

On 5/18/2023 at 10:05 AM, discolé monade said:

 hmmm. 

so a couple of things.
how will this be monitored? how will people be fined/punished? montana is a 2nd amend. state, and i'm just curious WHY states/counties/cities are SO fucking gullible to believe this shite, is so that 'they' can defend OTHER unconstitutional bullshit?....but i digress. 

 

also, i found this rich. 
"The Chinese Communist Party using TikTok to spy on Americans, violate their privacy, and collect their personal, private, and sensitive information is well-documented," Gov. Gianforte said.

" ..is well documented." Is a thing my students like to say when they can't actually point to specific documentation.

[Master-Debater131]

10 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Sure it does.  How do you stop someone from retrieving that data? ESPN only blocks based on account information (based on the service provider account you input) which means you can theoretically travel to a city that has blocked a game’s broadcast and still see that game on your app.   If you attempt to block based on an IP address… well we know how that ends up based on dynamic addresses and VPNs.

It all comes down to where an account is registered, and that’s the problem.  Unless you punish the actual user directly, there are too many work arounds that make it impossible to stop Tik Tok from being used in Montana.

Its extremely easy to stop someone from retrieving data. Websites do it all the time. Apps do it to. Registration location has nothing to do with region locking either. I have an ESPN+ account. I cant watch some teams when I am at home because its region locked. But when I travel for work it loads up just fine because my geographic location has changed. Its not hard to do. To say that it cant be done or is difficult to do is just flat wrong.

[scoobdog]

16 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Its extremely easy to stop someone from retrieving data. Websites do it all the time. Apps do it to. Registration location has nothing to do with region locking either. I have an ESPN+ account. I cant watch some teams when I am at home because its region locked. But when I travel for work it loads up just fine because my geographic location has changed. Its not hard to do. To say that it cant be done or is difficult to do is just flat wrong.

Like I said, it's based on your account which includes your local IP address:  If you used a VPN, you could never be blocked.  Are you going to ban VPNs now?

[Master-Debater131]

Just now, scoobdog said:

Like I said, it's based on your account which includes your local IP address:  If you used a VPN, you could never be blocked.  Are you going to ban VPNs now?

Congress is trying to with their nationwide TikTok ban. And even if they succeed people who really want to use a VPN still.

Its the same with this law. If you really want to get to tiktok you can, but for the vast majority of people they wont. You will likely restrict more than 95% of the access in Montana by doing this. Most people cant be bothered to set up a VPN and use it properly.

[scoobdog]

5 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Congress is trying to with their nationwide TikTok ban. And even if they succeed people who really want to use a VPN still.

Its the same with this law. If you really want to get to tiktok you can, but for the vast majority of people they wont. You will likely restrict more than 95% of the access in Montana by doing this. Most people cant be bothered to set up a VPN and use it properly.

Except..... if Congress, bans Tik Tok, it can be forced out of Apple and Google's store, meaning it becomes extremely difficult to install it on the vast majority of phones.  Montana does not have that power.

[Master-Debater131]

3 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Except..... if Congress, bans Tim Tok, it can be forced out of Apple and Google's store, meaning it becomes extremely difficult to install it on the vast majority of phones.  Montana does not have that power.

Yes they can. And even if they couldn't they absolutely can ban traffic to TikTok itself. This really isnt hard. It happens all the time all over the world.

[scoobdog]

Just now, Master-Debater131 said:

Yes they can. And even if they couldn't they absolutely can ban traffic to TikTok itself. This really isnt hard. It happens all the time all over the world.

How?

[1pooh4u]

when Congress asked the creator or ceo of TikTok if he was spying for the Chinese government his answer wasn’t great “I wouldn’t call it spying” was part of their response. I didn’t catch the rest cuz my eyes rolled all the way into my head at that crazy phrasing. I couldn’t see for a minute and the panic from that left me deaf temporarily.  

[scoobdog]

2 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

when Congress asked the creator or ceo of TikTok if he was spying for the Chinese government his answer wasn’t great “I wouldn’t call it spying” was part of their response. I didn’t catch the rest cuz my eyes rolled all the way into my head at that crazy phrasing. I couldn’t see for a minute and the panic from that left me deaf temporarily.  

The danger of a company with personal data and the PRC breathing down its neck can’t be overstated.  I don’t think congress would be out of line to just ban them.

[1pooh4u]

27 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

The danger of a company with personal data and the PRC breathing down its neck can’t be overstated.  I don’t think congress would be out of line to just ban them.

What does China want our info for?   To make more robo calls from a bank I don’t use, in a language I don’t understand?  Cuz that’s pretty much just a Wednesday afternoon at this point 🫠

[katt_goddess]

1 hour ago, 1pooh4u said:

What does China want our info for?   To make more robo calls from a bank I don’t use, in a language I don’t understand?  Cuz that’s pretty much just a Wednesday afternoon at this point 🫠

They need to learn our epic dance moves and how to survive doing extra stupid things like eating Tide Pods which they will then add to their Kung Fu to become unstoppable. 

[1pooh4u]

11 minutes ago, katt_goddess said:

They need to learn our epic dance moves and how to survive doing extra stupid things like eating Tide Pods which they will then add to their Kung Fu to become unstoppable. 

I heard they’re working on a Mecha Jackie Chan 

[scoobdog]

2 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

What does China want our info for?   To make more robo calls from a bank I don’t use, in a language I don’t understand?  Cuz that’s pretty much just a Wednesday afternoon at this point 🫠

I was thinking more like IP addresses, but danger is generally itself overstatement, yeah ( lol).  I’m just saying that there isn’t really any middle ground between no restrictions and getting rid of it entirely.  

[katt_goddess]

18 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

I heard they’re working on a Mecha Jackie Chan 

That's what I call the move I use to flush public toilets using only the power of my foot.

[discolé monade]

ok. that's the 2nd time that's happened.

i'm posting in one thread. i even quo---

nvm.

Edited May 21, 2023 by discolé monade

[1pooh4u]

The thread was split because it was getting taken off topic I was going to move your post to the new topic but you edited it.  Your post is first in the new thread because the N Korea article was how it got started.  Lol I was gonna move your post and suddenly it was different I was like fuuuuuu😬😆 

[Doom Metal Alchemist]

21 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

The thread was split because it was getting taken off topic I was going to move your post to the new topic but you edited it.  Your post is first in the new thread because the N Korea article was how it got started.  Lol I was gonna move your post and suddenly it was different I was like fuuuuuu😬😆 

Did you get modded on the whole boards and I didn't get the memo???

[scoobdog]

2 hours ago, Doom Metal Alchemist said:

Did you get modded on the whole boards and I didn't get the memo???

Months ago.

[lupin_bebop]

Yeah.. That's about to get overturned. The First Amendment does apply to businesses, as well.