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Stormy days ahead for Trump

Sieg67

By Sieg67
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https://x.com/tjcrowley/status/1796322228101075124

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https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-trial-new-york-memes-prospective-jurors-1235005658/

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Raptorpat Monster Mutant

Raptorpat

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  On 4/4/2023 at 4:09 PM, Master-Debater131 said:

The by the book take is that the charges here are Federal charges that fall under FEC jurisdiction.

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But we don't even know what the state charges are yet.

  On 4/4/2023 at 4:09 PM, Master-Debater131 said:

Further than that, the DA dropped this case before when it became clear it wouldn't go anywhere.

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He dropped the Cy Vance tax fraud case, which is separate from this Stormy hush money case.

  On 4/4/2023 at 4:09 PM, Master-Debater131 said:

Even further than that is his soft on crime approach to prosecutions within NYC.

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This is actually a main factor in the "by the book" approach that I'm talking about. After he was elected, he circulated an internal memo setting his prosecutorial priorities for his term which included not wasting resources on prosecuting poor kids jumping MTA turnstiles or low level crimes that aren't attached to felonies.

Which, regardless of the merits, created all sorts of political drama through to today solely because he wrote a legalese memo about prosecutorial discretion without regard to the political optics.

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Icarus27k Icon

Icarus27k

Posted
Posted
  On 4/4/2023 at 4:09 PM, Master-Debater131 said:

The problem with the by the book image is that it falls apart when put under scrutiny. The by the book take is that the charges here are Federal charges that fall under FEC jurisdiction. Thats how these cases are always handled, and they always result in fines being handed to candidates and it going away. 

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We will know exactly what the charges are later today, but it's probably state felony charges falsifying business records, not an FEC administrative case. 

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Master-Debater131 Hero

Master-Debater131

Posted
Posted
  On 4/4/2023 at 4:25 PM, Raptorpat said:

But we don't know what the state charges are yet.

He dropped the Cy Vance tax fraud case, which is separate from this Stormy hush money case.

This is actually a main factor in the "by the book" approach that I'm talking about. After he was elected, he circulated an internal memo setting his prosecutorial priorities for his term which included not wasting resources on prosecuting poor kids jumping MTA turnstiles or low level crimes that aren't attached to felonies.

Which, regardless of the merits, created all sorts of political drama through to today solely because he wrote a legalese memo about prosecutorial discretion without regard to the political optics.

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Fair enough on the charges, but all indications are that it has to do with the hush money and payments out of his campaign and business. I guess we will know for sure here in a few hours.

The crime thing is more than low level stuff though. Violent crime is up, and he isnt prosecuting the offenders. Felony assault is up almost 15% according to the NYPD. Its one thing to not charge turnstile jumpers, its a whole other thing to not charge violent offenders or decrease the charges so they can post bail.

Icarus27k Icon

Icarus27k

Posted
Posted

My understanding is, in order for falsifying records to be a felony in New York, it has to be in furtherance of another crime. If it's not done in furtherance of a second crime, it's just a misdemeanor. 

This by itself has nothing to do with election law. It's just lying on records and the second crime can be anything. It's been used, for example, to prosecute someone who has who has lied on forms to get safety net benefits. 

Further, the second crime that is needed to make it a felony can be a state or federal crime. It's been successfully prosecuted with both. 

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1pooh4u Monster Mutant

1pooh4u

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I’m not going.  checked the news like 20 min ago and it’s getting crazy. A lot of pro trump yellow flag waving.  There’s like thousands of people there already. 

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Jman Super Hero

Jman

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  On 4/4/2023 at 5:29 PM, 1pooh4u said:

I’m not going.  checked the news like 20 min ago and it’s getting crazy. A lot of pro trump yellow flag waving.  There’s like thousands of people there already. 

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Might be for the best.  I doubt anyone hears anything but “RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!”

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Master-Debater131 Hero

Master-Debater131

Posted
Posted
  On 4/4/2023 at 5:29 PM, 1pooh4u said:

I’m not going.  checked the news like 20 min ago and it’s getting crazy. A lot of pro trump yellow flag waving.  There’s like thousands of people there already. 

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Ive been watching Twitter for the "highlights". There are some, lets just say, colorful characters out there right now. And more and more keep showing up.

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1pooh4u Monster Mutant

1pooh4u

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  On 4/4/2023 at 5:35 PM, Jman said:

Might be for the best.  I doubt anyone hears anything but “RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!”

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George Santos is down there, the worst of the worst has shown up. Thousands of people showing up FOR Trump in NYC is very suspect to me. I’m not sayin there aren’t Trump supporters here. Trump wants his case moved to Staten Island because he knows he’s loved there but still it’s a way bigger pro turnout than I thought it would be. 

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1pooh4u Monster Mutant

1pooh4u

Posted
Posted
  On 4/4/2023 at 5:49 PM, Master-Debater131 said:

Ive been watching Twitter for the "highlights". There are some, lets just say, colorful characters out there right now. And more and more keep showing up.

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Yeah something ain’t right. I expected a lot of people but not that many not thousands especially supporting Trump. He’s almost universally hated in NYC even before he was potus. I took one look at the news and just did a “nope” I’m not getting sucked into that bullshit nonsense. 

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rpgamer Luminary

rpgamer

Posted
Posted
  On 4/4/2023 at 5:29 PM, 1pooh4u said:

I’m not going.  checked the news like 20 min ago and it’s getting crazy. A lot of pro trump yellow flag waving.  There’s like thousands of people there already. 

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Ain't it wild how they've adopted a flag the color commonly associated with cowardice?

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Raptorpat Monster Mutant

Raptorpat

Posted
Posted
  On 4/4/2023 at 4:33 PM, Master-Debater131 said:

The crime thing is more than low level stuff though. Violent crime is up, and he isnt prosecuting the offenders. Felony assault is up almost 15% according to the NYPD. Its one thing to not charge turnstile jumpers, its a whole other thing to not charge violent offenders or decrease the charges so they can post bail.

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That's a bit of a stickier wicket to actually untangle what culpability he might have to contribute to a national post-covid crime wave.

But my point was that he  wrote a legalese memo exercising his prosecutorial discretion without regards to the optics and has been attacked by adversaries and nonlawyers ever since, and then he dropped the other Trump case because he thought it was too difficult to prove and got attacked by Democrats. So I just don't see him throwing flimsy claims against the wall to play in the game, it just feels out of character.

Master-Debater131 Hero

Master-Debater131

Posted
Posted
  On 4/4/2023 at 5:54 PM, 1pooh4u said:

Yeah something ain’t right. I expected a lot of people but not that many not thousands especially supporting Trump. He’s almost universally hated in NYC even before he was potus. I took one look at the news and just did a “nope” I’m not getting sucked into that bullshit nonsense. 

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The thing is though is that even if Trump supporters are outnumbered 10 to 1, in a city with 8.5 Million people thats still a ton of Trump supporters. Just by the pure volume of people theres probably at least 100,000 Trump supporters in NYC.

Theres also the fact that this date has been announced for a while. Any of the MAGA cultists that wanted to show up had plenty of time to make that happen. If anything, Im a little surprised at how small the crowds are.

Icarus27k Icon

Icarus27k

Posted
Posted (edited)

Do I care that Fox News employees are all absurd liars (see the defamation lawsuit that Dominion Voting Systems has against them and is pending)? 

I enjoy it more know that.

Edited by Icarus27k
Raptorpat Monster Mutant

Raptorpat

Posted
Posted
  On 4/4/2023 at 6:48 PM, 1pooh4u said:

It’s taking forever to unseal the indictment. Everything should be over. How long does it take to read charges and then plead “not guilty”

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NBC just got a note slipped out of the room.

34 counts of falsifying business records and conspiracy, relates to hush payments to two separate women.

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Jman Super Hero

Jman

Posted
Posted (edited)

34 counts, each count at 4 years…

Just getting him on three will put him in jail (or more likely, an isolated but comfortable exile unable to run his digital gob on Twitter) for the rest of his life given his age.

You don’t suppose France can rent out Saint Helena island, can they?

Edited by Jman
Master-Debater131 Hero

Master-Debater131

Posted
Posted

The problem with this is that it does confirm that all Bragg did was strip each payment and try and make it its own charge. That actually goes against DoJ guidance on what to do in these cases because it winds up weakening the overall case. It also does confirm that Bragg is trying to bootstrap minor charges that are past the statute of limitations to something bigger to get this case to proceed. Bragg is going to have to take a totally unproven strategy and prove it to a court now. Thats the first thing he will have to do before this can ever possibly go to a trial.

 

1pooh4u Monster Mutant

1pooh4u

Posted
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Half those counts he probably will be found “not guilty” if his trial gets moved to SI he won’t be found guilty on any counts. He’s looking at 34 felonies 

I gotta say it blows my mind that people can pay off people to keep their mouths shut and the only crime is where the $ came from and how it was recorded 

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Master-Debater131 Hero

Master-Debater131

Posted
Posted

Its pretty common to pay people to shut up. NDAs are a thing, and they are heavily enforced. You do not want to see what happens to you if you break an NDA. Jerry Jones has a fund set aside for when a new illegitimate child shows up asking for money. They take a DNA test, sign an NDA, then get paid to go away forever. I think the last I heard was that he was up to 10 illegitimate kids now.

Thats just how things work.

 

Master-Debater131 Hero

Master-Debater131

Posted
Posted
  On 4/4/2023 at 7:16 PM, Raptorpat said:

We still haven't seen any of their materials yet, and USDOJ guidance is completely irrelevant to state prosecutions.

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Not really. Their guidance for prosecutions may not matter but the underlying principal of weakling your case by splitting it up sure does. Bragg doesnt have a single strong case, he has 34 weak cases. Its a prosecution thats a mile wide and inch deep.

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PhilosipherStoned Monster Mutant

PhilosipherStoned

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 4/4/2023 at 6:44 PM, Raptorpat said:

the only person completely immune from trump-style name-calling

https://twitter.com/StormyDaniels/status/1643318360761876486?s=20

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Might as well change your twitter handle  to 'Cum Dumpster' at this point, but I get why her angst is being awarded in a way..

Edited by PhilosipherStoned
and more than likely padding the bank. Kudos though I guess.
Master-Debater131 Hero

Master-Debater131

Posted
Posted

Some key things coming out now. No Gag order in place, next time this will make news is in December. The next court date is December 4th where the Judge will rule on the motions delivered by the Attorneys.

Soooooo theres a solid 8 months before anything happens again.

  • Confused 1
Jman Super Hero

Jman

Posted
Posted

Well now that New York has taken the first steps, I wouldn’t be surprised if Georgia makes their own announcement in the summer.  I think that no one wanted to be first, and that now the doors are open.

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katt_goddess Monster Mutant

katt_goddess

Posted
Posted
  On 4/4/2023 at 7:43 PM, Master-Debater131 said:

Some key things coming out now. No Gag order in place, next time this will make news is in December. The next court date is December 4th where the Judge will rule on the motions delivered by the Attorneys.

Soooooo theres a solid 8 months before anything happens again.

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Don't worry about boredom. We still have the Georgia investigation, the stolen documents at Mar-a-Lago thing that just keeps on giving, and that civil lawsuit in NY over the Trump Organization lying about its assets in order to screw over lenders and insurers.

The clock stops in NY if the criminal leaves the state to live elsewhere. He left to live in DC/FL in 2016 and did his official tantrum move to Florida as his permanent residency in 2019. Basically he is being held to account by the same rules set into place to catch predator priests. 

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scoobdog Monster Mutant

scoobdog

Posted
Posted

He’s not being charged with an election crime, he’s being charged with a financial crime during the commission of an election crime.  If Pat says he’s a by the book prosecutor, then that is what he is.

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