ITN: Israel

[scoobdog]

Israel punted on the intelligence, and there’s no chance now of regaining the advantage.

[PenguinBoss]

Looking forward to nothing happening to this twat.

[discolé monade]

i had no idea that roger waters was a fucking douche. 

damn. 

 

"Pink Floyd's former frontman, known for his antisemitic remarks, shares his reaction to Bono's Nova Festival Tribute in Al Jazeera interview: urges people to "kick him in the crotch."

 

[scoobdog]

13 minutes ago, discolé monade said:

i had no idea that roger waters was a fucking douche. 

damn. 

 

"Pink Floyd's former frontman, known for his antisemitic remarks, shares his reaction to Bono's Nova Festival Tribute in Al Jazeera interview: urges people to "kick him in the crotch."

 

Apparently he’s been antisemitic for quite some time, if his former bandmates are to be believed.

[Icarus27k]

Biden says he hopes there’ll be a ceasefire in Gaza by next Monday

By Alex Marquardt and Donald Judd, CNN

 4 minute read

Updated 6:05 PM EST, Mon February 26, 2024

 

R

CNN

 — 

President Joe Biden said that he hopes there’ll be a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas conflict by “next Monday.”

 

“Well I hope by the beginning of the weekend, I mean, the end of the weekend,” Biden said after being asked when a ceasefire might start during an appearance on Monday at an ice cream shop in New York city with comedian Seth Meyers. “My national security adviser tells me that we’re close. We’re close, it’s not done yet. And my hope is that by next Monday we’ll have a ceasefire,” Biden added.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/26/politics/hamas-demands-gaza-negotiations/index.html?Date=20240226&Profile=cnnbrk&utm_content=1708991975&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

[Master-Debater131]

Hamas Rejects Cease-Fire Proposal, Dashing Biden’s Hopes of Near Term Deal

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/27/world/middleeast/biden-israel-hamas-cease-fire.html

"Hamas officials said on Tuesday that there had been no breakthrough in the mediated talks with Israel aimed at pausing the war and freeing the remaining hostages in the Gaza Strip, one day after President Biden said he was hopeful that a cease-fire would be in place by next week.

Basem Naim, a Hamas spokesman, said in a text message that the militant group had yet to formally receive “any new proposals” since senior Israeli officials met with Qatari, Egyptian and U.S. mediators in Paris last week to advance a possible deal.

Another Hamas official, Ahmad Abdelhadi, said that the group was sticking to its demand that Israel agree to a long-term cease-fire and that leaks about the talks were designed to pressure Hamas to soften its position.

“We are not interested in engaging with what’s been floated, because it does not fulfill our demands,” Mr. Abdelhadi said Tuesday in a televised interview with al-Mayadeen, a Lebanese broadcaster."

 

Hamas is not going to agree to a peace deal because they have this insane idea that they are winning the war. Their idea of a "deal" is for Israel to surrender. Its laughable on its face. The only way there will ever be peace is if Hamas is completely decimated and there is a long-term de-radicalization plan in place in the same manner that we saw in Germany and Japan post WW2.

[discolé monade]

27 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Hamas Rejects Cease-Fire Proposal, Dashing Biden’s Hopes of Near Term Deal

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/27/world/middleeast/biden-israel-hamas-cease-fire.html

"Hamas officials said on Tuesday that there had been no breakthrough in the mediated talks with Israel aimed at pausing the war and freeing the remaining hostages in the Gaza Strip, one day after President Biden said he was hopeful that a cease-fire would be in place by next week.

Basem Naim, a Hamas spokesman, said in a text message that the militant group had yet to formally receive “any new proposals” since senior Israeli officials met with Qatari, Egyptian and U.S. mediators in Paris last week to advance a possible deal.

Another Hamas official, Ahmad Abdelhadi, said that the group was sticking to its demand that Israel agree to a long-term cease-fire and that leaks about the talks were designed to pressure Hamas to soften its position.

“We are not interested in engaging with what’s been floated, because it does not fulfill our demands,” Mr. Abdelhadi said Tuesday in a televised interview with al-Mayadeen, a Lebanese broadcaster."

 

Hamas is not going to agree to a peace deal because they have this insane idea that they are winning the war. Their idea of a "deal" is for Israel to surrender. Its laughable on its face. The only way there will ever be peace is if Hamas is completely decimated and there is a long-term de-radicalization plan in place in the same manner that we saw in Germany and Japan post WW2.

you mean....

concentration camps and internment camps. 

 

 

[Master-Debater131]

3 minutes ago, discolé monade said:

you mean....

concentration camps and internment camps. 

 

 

lol no

Nice try though.

[naraku360]

1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said:

The only way there will ever be peace is if Hamas is completely decimated and there is a long-term de-radicalization plan in place in the same manner that we saw in Germany and Japan post WW2.

Meaning...?

[Master-Debater131]

19 minutes ago, naraku360 said:

Meaning...?

Start by capturing or killing the entire Hamas leadership and command structure. Israel is doing a good job at this, so they just need to keep on trucking.

Demilitarize the Gaza Strip so that they cannot launch another attack. Again, Israel is doing a good job and can just keep going.

Get rid of the UNWRA in Gaza. Its proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that they are a terrorist supporting organization and they need to go.

Start educating people, particularly younger people, that Jews are not monsters and that they have a right to live. Normally you could show images of the atrocities from 10/7, but the hate runs so deep in Gaza that even that might not be enough. This will take the longest and will need to be ingrained in much of the post-war efforts. Same as what happened in Germany and Japan after WW2.

Ideally an international peacekeeping force would occupy Gaza for a while to ensure that they dont launch another attack and that the education can continue. This is where things are tough though because no one wants to be involved in Gaza, least of all other Arab nations.

[scoobdog]

28 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Start by capturing or killing the entire Hamas leadership and command structure. Israel is doing a good job at this...

And that is where you lost us.

Actually, it was earlier when you posted an article that blatantly emphasized it was only Hamas that was rejecting the peace deal and ignored the fact that Israel had rejected any possible deal about the same time.

[scoobdog]

A Reminder of Scoob's Unpopular Opinion:

We really need to stop making the Hamas conflict about anti-semitism.  Don't get me wrong - anti-semitism is very real and at a nadir - but the insistence of tying the atrocities in Gaza to a historical oppression of Jews has the unintended effect of conflating two tragedies and diminishing both.  I bring it up because anti-semitism has clawed its way back into the headlines and there is the very real and dangerous insinuation that those who stand up against anti-semitism are tacitly pro-genocide of Palestinians.  It's by no means a reasonable take and the perpetrators are almost assuredly white-supremacists and other bad actors; nonetheless, framing hate in terms of an unrelated cause can confuse the issue and stifle discussion.

It's all the more important as we approach the movement by Arab-Americans and other non-white voters to express their dissatisfaction with Biden's handling of the situation.  Biden isn't advocating for the genocide of Palestinians, nor is in any position to stop a war that affects American citizens on both sides.  Still, voters have every right to vote not-committed to express their dissatisfaction with the fact that the United States provides Israel with the weapons used to eradicated Palestinians.  We should be discussing the security aid we provide Israel and Biden should not only be open with us about it but also explain what he intends to do to stop American firepower from being used in such a horrific manner.  These discussions happen when the topic is clear and concise, not peppered with ancillary concerns, and it can't happen if support for Palestine is made to be mutually exclusive of efforts to combat normalized hate of Jewish people.

[naraku360]

 

[Icarus27k]

53 minutes ago, naraku360 said:

 

I bet he wonders why his videos aren't more popular.

[stilgar]

Why does md love genocide so much?

[naraku360]

37 minutes ago, Icarus27k said:

I bet he wonders why his videos aren't more popular.

I don't know what you mean.

Edited February 28, 2024 by naraku360

[Icarus27k]

46 minutes ago, naraku360 said:

I don't know what you mean.

Yeah, I regretted that last post after hitting send. It was my instinct to hate on professional videomakers. I saw a thumbnail with the word "genocide" on it and just had to mock it. 

[Master-Debater131]

 

This is a bit surprising actually. Having 82% of Americans agree on anything is tough.  Vast majorities support Israel, want Hamas removed from Gaza, and say Israel is avoiding civilian causalities.  This comes even as useful idiots in the West scream that Israel is the bad guy.

Very positive sign that Americans can still generally tell right from wrong.

[scoobdog]

Has all of Hamas been killed yet?

[Icarus27k]

The last I heard, the U.S. is promoting a weeks-long ceasefire they hope will turn permanent.

[katt_goddess]

34 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Has all of Hamas been killed yet?

No, but once they drop a nuke on southern Gaza where they told all the refugees to go to for 'safety' they'll be that much closer. 

[naraku360]

2 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Very positive sign that Americans can still generally tell right from wrong.

I mean, they think Israel is trying to avoid casualties, even though Israel's officials routinely announce how much they actively want casualties.

So, apparently not.

[naraku360]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/27/un-israel-food-starvation-palestinians-war-crime-genocide

https://theintercept.com/2023/12/20/gaza-israel-biden-netanyahu-war-strategy/

 

"""""""Avoiding casualties.""""""""

@Master-Debater131, fuck off. You know damn well that Israel's actions are irredeemable. Starvation tactics, hospital bombings, more dead children in a few months than years of Hamas, a 60+% civilian casualty rate. If this is "avoiding casualties," it's the most incompetent harm reduction mankind has ever seen.

The IDF are state-run terrorists.

Hamas is a terrorist group.

Opposing Israel's actions are not the same as supporting Hamas, before you make that pathetic excuse of an accusation.

Opposing Israel's actions is simply opposing terrorism.

You aren't unaware.

You're a liar too cowardly to admit that you are, in fact, supporting terrorism. You know you are.

Edited February 29, 2024 by naraku360

[discolé monade]

11 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

lol no

Nice try though.

lol yes. 

[Master-Debater131]

2 hours ago, naraku360 said:

You're a liar too cowardly to admit that you are, in fact, supporting terrorism. You know you are.

Hahahaha, oh now thats a good one.

 

Im happy to be firmly planted on the right side of history.

[scoobdog]

3 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Hahahaha, oh now thats a good one.

 

Im happy to be firmly planted on the right side of history.

But, you’re not.  I’m not going so far as to call the IDF terrorists since they’re following bad orders, but they’re perpetrating a tragedy that’s unimaginable and unrelenting in its destruction.  The people of Israel are victims of this too:  their elected officials not only failed to listen to intelligence resulting in a terrorist attack, they covered the failure by waging an indiscriminate bombing campaign and nearly wiped out entire generations of Palestinians.  There is no right side to be had here; nobody is going to win.

[stilgar]

46 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Hahahaha, oh now thats a good one.

 

Im happy to be firmly planted on the right side of history.

Yes shit head, you are on the right side of history. Just not on the correct side of history. What with you seeming to revel in genocide.

[naraku360]

50 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Hahahaha, oh now thats a good one.

 

Im happy to be firmly planted on the right side of history.

Except you're quite literally supporting a fullblown genocide campaign.

Israel has been intentionally killing medics, cutting supplies needed to survive, bombing hospitals, indiscriminately killing civilians regardless of how obviously harmless they are. These are all by definition, codified by the Geneva Convention, war crimes. Genocide.

Since you're too much of an insincere shitstain to so much as look at a single article calling your bitch-ass out, here:

Quote

ded claims”.

The US state department spokesperson, Matthew Miller, said the administration was aware of the allegations and had asked the Israeli authorities to investigate.

“I cannot independently confirm the reports,” Miller said. “I will say that we have been clear that civilians and detained individuals must be treated humanely and in accordance with international humanitarian law. We strongly urge Israel to thoroughly and transparently investigate credible allegations and ensure any accountability for abuses and violations, and that will continue to be our position.”

In their report, delivered on Monday, the UN experts said: “We are particularly distressed by reports that Palestinian women and girls in detention have also been subjected to multiple forms of sexual assault, such as being stripped naked and searched by male Israeli army officers. At least two female Palestinian detainees were reportedly raped while others were reportedly threatened with rape and sexual violence.”

The independent experts, who have been appointed by the UNHRC but do not represent the UN, reported that degrading photos of female Palestinian detainees, reportedly taken by Israeli soldiers, had been uploaded to the internet.

The experts said women and girls had not been spared in the widespread killing of Palestinian civilians. With the estimated death toll in Gaza now close to 30,000, the experts pointed to reports of women and girls being arbitrarily killed in Gaza, often with family members.

“We are shocked by reports of the deliberate targeting and extrajudicial killing of Palestinian women and children in places where they sought refuge, or while fleeing,” the experts said in a joint statement. “Some of them were reportedly holding white pieces of cloth when they were killed by the Israeli army or affiliated forces.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says

Huh, weird how you don't give a fuck about the rape and murder of those children.

Come on, bitch, answer. How do you explain this? Is this what you call a good response? I believe you once said the IDF had been flawless in response. Does that include child rape? Or the indiscriminate violence?

Nothing?

 

[naraku360]

53 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

I’m not going so far as to call the IDF terrorists since they’re following bad orders

I'm not going to call 1930s German soldiers nazis since they were just following bad orders.

Edited February 29, 2024 by naraku360

[rpgamer]

13 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Start educating people, particularly younger people, that Jews are not monsters and that they have a right to live.

Maybe I know fuckall about geopolitics and less about this situation, but... I was under the impression that Jews were not the targets of this particular genocide....

[naraku360]

1 hour ago, rpgamer said:

Maybe I know fuckall about geopolitics and less about this situation, but... I was under the impression that Jews were not the targets of this particular genocide....

I think she thinks she's on Netanyahu's payroll but all she's really on is shitty, dying message board for middle aged stoners, and also meth.

[Top Gun]

So MD, I'm assuming you accidentally left out the step in your plan where young Israeli citizens are educated that Palestinians are not monsters and they have the right to live in their own land, right? ...right?

[discolé monade]

...while trying to convince everyone that their side is the right side, with charts, and statements, and opinion pieces. 

lol. this is genocide you speak of. plain and simple. 

no amount of semantics can disguise that. 

as stilgar wonderfully stated. you sure are on the right side....just not the correct side. 

[discolé monade]

here's what your 'right side' looks like:

these people, the poor people, died while trying to get food. that's the right side? you can not be this obtuse? 

Reporting from the scene, Al Jaeera's Ismail al-Ghoul said that after opening fire, Israeli tanks advanced and ran over many of the dead and injured bodies. "it is a massacre, on top of the starvation threatening citizens in Gaza, : he said.

 

[naraku360]

3 hours ago, discolé monade said:

here's what your 'right side' looks like:

these people, the poor people, died while trying to get food. that's the right side? you can not be this obtuse? 

Reporting from the scene, Al Jaeera's Ismail al-Ghoul said that after opening fire, Israeli tanks advanced and ran over many of the dead and injured bodies. "it is a massacre, on top of the starvation threatening citizens in Gaza, : he said.

 

She's getting off to the pile of corpses.

[matrixman124]

7 hours ago, discolé monade said:

here's what your 'right side' looks like:

these people, the poor people, died while trying to get food. that's the right side? you can not be this obtuse? 

Reporting from the scene, Al Jaeera's Ismail al-Ghoul said that after opening fire, Israeli tanks advanced and ran over many of the dead and injured bodies. "it is a massacre, on top of the starvation threatening citizens in Gaza, : he said.

 

This has been indefensible for months

Edited February 29, 2024 by matrixman124

[Master-Debater131]

*yawn* whole lot of dumb shit going on while I was away today. Oh well, back to reality.

Hamas leader Sinwar cites civilian casualties as tactical advantage for terror group, report says

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bja61pt3t

"Mounting civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip will intensify global pressure on Israel to halt its military actions against Hamas, the terrorist group's leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar told fellow Hamas officials handling cease-fire talks in Qatar, the Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday as growing humanitarian crisis and destruction in Gaza are testing Israel’s relations with the U.S. and other global partners."

 

Hamas continues to signal that they want civilian causalities because they know it will only encourage the useful idiots in the West. Hamas purposefully increases civilian causalities knowing that it will get reactions in the West, reactions playing out in this very thread funny enough. Huh. So while Israel continues to work to minimize civilian casualities, Hamas worked to pump those numbers up. That makes this another good time to remind everyone that the numbers coming from the ministry of health in Gaza are not to be trusted because they are the propaganda number pushed out by Hamas.

Edited March 1, 2024 by Master-Debater131

[katt_goddess]

This is probably a good time to point out that ynet is 100% pro-Israel in all things no matter what the thing is and would feel they have nothing to gain by reporting civilian deaths in Gaza as actual deaths. 

[naraku360]

48 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

So while Israel continues to work to minimize civilian casualities

Citation needed.

[stilgar]

2 hours ago, naraku360 said:

Citation needed.

 

[scoobdog]

On 2/28/2024 at 9:37 PM, naraku360 said:

I'm not going to call 1930s German soldiers nazis since they were just following bad orders.

That’s what you picked out of my post?

[naraku360]

7 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

That’s what you picked out of my post?

Did I remark on anything else?

[scoobdog]

Well, anyway, it wasn’t a statement of culpability.  There are rules to stop state sanctioned murder that differ from those meant to stop brigands.  Making the difference is still important because there are Israeli soldiers that are killing not because they hate Palestinians but because they’re conscripted into of a mismanaged and poorly planned operation.

[stilgar]

1 hour ago, scoobdog said:

Well, anyway, it wasn’t a statement of culpability.  There are rules to stop state sanctioned murder that differ from those meant to stop brigands.  Making the difference is still important because there are Israeli soldiers that are killing not because they hate Palestinians but because they’re conscripted into of a mismanaged and poorly planned operation.

I mean, they also hate Palestinians. 

[naraku360]

4 hours ago, scoobdog said:

Well, anyway, it wasn’t a statement of culpability.  There are rules to stop state sanctioned murder that differ from those meant to stop brigands.  Making the difference is still important because there are Israeli soldiers that are killing not because they hate Palestinians but because they’re conscripted into of a mismanaged and poorly planned operation.

I was really just ballbusting over the sentiment, but if you want to get into it, I don't think the level of extremism of individuals in an organization changes whether or not they're terrorists.

The motivation behind an act of terrorism doesn't change it being an act of terrorism. The IDF, as an organization, is deliberately doing this. Individuals in the IDF don't really matter when fear and destruction are Netanyahu's stated goals, even if usually wedged between dishonest claims of trying to prevent casualties.

What you're describing is no different from Hamas recruitment. I doubt every single member is there out of hatred rather than to survive, but if their method of survival is to participate in terrorism, they're still a terrorist.

Edited March 1, 2024 by naraku360

[scoobdog]

7 hours ago, naraku360 said:

I was really just ballbusting over the sentiment, but if you want to get into it, I don't think the level of extremism of individuals in an organization changes whether or not they're terrorists.

The motivation behind an act of terrorism doesn't change it being an act of terrorism. The IDF, as an organization, is deliberately doing this. Individuals in the IDF don't really matter when fear and destruction are Netanyahu's stated goals, even if usually wedged between dishonest claims of trying to prevent casualties.

What you're describing is no different from Hamas recruitment. I doubt every single member is there out of hatred rather than to survive, but if their method of survival is to participate in terrorism, they're still a terrorist.

Yes to all your points.  I obviously don’t want to get too far into it when we’re talking an unequivocal act of genocide (where the act supersedes any potential rationale), and I bring it up only in the all important context of separating the actions of the IDF and Israeli government from cultural stereotypes.

FWIW, Netanyahu is a particularly odious individual who has turned personal corruption into a crime against humanity.  Whatever his personal beliefs about Palestinians, his directing of IDF forces to bomb Gaza repeatedly despite knowing full well that it would disproportionally cause mass casualties amongst civilians and other non combatants makes him a war criminal.

[Master-Debater131]

Hamas official: 'We don't know which of the hostages are dead or alive'

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-790201

"Hamas official Basem Naim said on Monday to AFP that the terror group did not know which of the hostages were dead or alive.

Basem also added that the hostages were held by many terror groups in different locations in the Gaza Strip.

According to Basem, a ceasefire is necessary for Hamas to ascertain how many and which hostages it is still holding.

The same Hamas official, in an interview with the BBC, said that the hostages "are in different areas with different groups" and Hamas "have asked for a ceasefire to collect that data [on which hostages are alive and where.]"

Continuing the BBC interview, Naim asserted that information relating to the hostages was "valuable" and could not be given "for free.""

 

Oh they know which ones are alive and which are dead. They just refuse to say it because they realize that if they admit to the torture, rape, and murder of the hostages it will be bad PR for them. And on top of that, if they admit they are all, or even mostly, dead then the IDF will simply bomb the last remaining Hamas hideouts and kill the leadership.

[stilgar]

The idf does not give a shit about the hostages and are going to keep bombing Palestinians even if all of Hamas has died you disgusting pile of garbage.

[naraku360]

On 2/29/2024 at 6:14 PM, naraku360 said:

Citation needed.

No citation received.

Why might that be, @Master-Debater131?

[Master-Debater131]

 

US boots on the ground in Gaza. Going to be interesting to see how this one plays out.