mochi Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 when I was a kid Anime wasn't especially homophobic at all in fact a lot of the animes that got mainstream success here had gay characters back in the 90's and early 2000's Cardcaptor Sakura: every main character is LGBT as confirmed by Clamp (including Sakura, they recently confirmed she is Bi) Sailor Moon: heroic Lesbian characters added to main cast in 3rd Story arc, manga also contains one Male gay or bi character (a classmate of Tuxedo mask's) Outlaw Star: Fred Luo, admittedly not the absolute best example of a gay character, but he wasn't ugly and he was the main character's friend Cowboy Bebop: the episode Jupiter Jazz and there were a handful of other animes in the 90's that at the very least had semi-positive portrayals of LGBT people now all we're getting out of anime is the fuck happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 You have to name more than one example for this argument to have merit. Especially when there are dozens of anime coming out every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 That's like asking when anime became racist. The answer is always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 You have to name more than one example for this argument to have merit. Especially when there are dozens of anime coming out every season. easily (this one is especially bad because the show out-right calls his homosexuality a "mental disorder") arguably, he "gets over being gay" in one episode after seeing his crush in drag https://new1.fjcdn.com/pictures/Have+you+ever+been+so+cool+almost+made+a+gay_60cb8a_4465223.png[/img] (arguably) in the manga he "chooses to be straight" and lives happily ever after, the anime diverges heavily and I'm not sure if that happens in the anime is canonically gay, but the anime he's from is set in a world where everyone is forcibly wed to an opposite sex partner at age 16 whether they like it or not (or that's what it sounds like) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlChemist81 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Were we ever on the subject of that? Because I sure as hell wasn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satou Kazuma Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 they did this to spite you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Mochi is always on the subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted September 28, 2017 Author Share Posted September 28, 2017 Mochi is always on the subject! damn right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapinator_X Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 When they actively went on ASMB and UE, and were like "hey, I like to read this guy's post on homophobic anime, so lets make more of it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Either you really care about this, or you have way too much time on your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 Either you really care about this, or you have way too much time on your hands. both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarPanda Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Inuyasha was my first encounter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Mochi is too laser focused on this, Japan doesn’t care, but they don’t have to deal with Tumblr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 Mochi is too laser focused on this, Japan doesn’t care, but they don’t have to deal with Tumblr. they do just not to the same extent America does Japan has a "if we pretend it doesn't exist it will go away" mentality about gay people the irony is that all the horribly homophobic characters I just referenced are an attempt to be progressive it's like Will & Grace, it seemed incredible and progressive at the time, now it just seems insulting and stereotypical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 That's stupid. If they really wanted gay people to disappear, they wouldn't be putting so many of them in their works, homophobically represented or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 That's stupid. If they really wanted gay people to disappear, they wouldn't be putting so many of them in their works, homophobically represented or not. a lot of anime and Manga featuring gay characters are also meant to appeal to straight women because women think guy on guy is hot there is the rare gay character that seems to have been written with an actual gay audience at least partially in mind (Yuri on ice to some extent and Bulaut in Akame ga Kill) but overall the average Japanese person feels one of 3 ways about gay people 1. they're entirely indifferent (best case scenario) 2. they think they can politely persuade gay people to not be gay by setting them up on blind dates with opposite sex people 3. they just pretend gay people aren't real there are some people in Japan who are genuinely okay with gay people though, the anime industry however stifles those people, like Hunter X Hunter's author Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 You know, most of us would be indifferent if you didn’t bring it up every five seconds. We’re not antagonists, we just don’t care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted September 29, 2017 Author Share Posted September 29, 2017 You know, most of us would be indifferent if you didn’t bring it up every five seconds. We’re not antagonists, we just don’t care. indifference is good in some context but bad in others on one hand you won't actively hurt us on the other, you won't do anything to help us if someone else tries to hurt us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpressAngel Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Speaking as a queer person, for the love of god could you shut up about LGBT+ representation for like ten minutes? It's exhausting to read, and it can't be healthy for you to be fixated on it constantly. There has to be something to your personality besides the fact that you like dicks that you can focus on occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 You might want to list name of character and what show they're from, instead of just posting pictures and assuming everyone knows who they are. To comment on a couple of them - Charlotte Cuulhorne's sexuality was never stated. You shouldn't assume things and stereotype, Mochi. =3 The other characters that are stated to be gay/bi or could be presumed to be are portrayed well, in my opinion, as is the trans character. Black, hispanic, etc characters also tend to be drawn and portrayed well. Say what you will about Bleach, but it's pretty good on representation. I already ranted about Ivankov and the Queens in the pinned One Piece thread in the Toonami folder. You can discuss it there if you like. But yeah, they're pretty awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 they do just not to the same extent America does Japan has a "if we pretend it doesn't exist it will go away" mentality about gay people the irony is that all the horribly homophobic characters I just referenced are an attempt to be progressive it's like Will & Grace, it seemed incredible and progressive at the time, now it just seems insulting and stereotypical Regardless of what it was or what it was trying to do, and how poorly it might have pulled it off, Will & Grace was just a bad and chronically unfunny show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 a lot of anime and Manga featuring gay characters are also meant to appeal to straight women because women think guy on guy is hot there is the rare gay character that seems to have been written with an actual gay audience at least partially in mind (Yuri on ice to some extent and Bulaut in Akame ga Kill) but overall the average Japanese person feels one of 3 ways about gay people 1. they're entirely indifferent (best case scenario) 2. they think they can politely persuade gay people to not be gay by setting them up on blind dates with opposite sex people 3. they just pretend gay people aren't real there are some people in Japan who are genuinely okay with gay people though, the anime industry however stifles those people, like Hunter X Hunter's author Bulaut still sexually harassed Tatsumi, and you called him homophobic for rejecting it. So you know what the average Japanese person thinks from watching anime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Speaking as a queer person, for the love of god could you shut up about LGBT+ representation for like ten minutes? It's exhausting to read, and it can't be healthy for you to be fixated on it constantly. There has to be something to your personality besides the fact that you like dicks that you can focus on occasionally. He's as one-dimensional as the characters he complains about, lul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted September 30, 2017 Author Share Posted September 30, 2017 Bulaut still sexually harassed Tatsumi, and you called him homophobic for rejecting it. So you know what the average Japanese person thinks from watching anime. from what I saw Bulaut only said one suggestive line to Tatsumi when they first met and never harrassed him after that, though I've only seen the dub and the dub did a lot to cover up Tatsumi's lines calling Bulaut a Rapist (namely they got rid of them entirely) also Bulaut isn't the greatest representation of a Gay person I'll admit that, but compared to characters like Puri Puri Prisoner it at least seems like the writers were actually trying to make a positive gay character since he's not drawn hideously and paranoia about rape or not Tatsumi actually liked and respected him as a person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandstone Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Bulaut still sexually harassed Tatsumi, and you called him homophobic for rejecting it. So you know what the average Japanese person thinks from watching anime. That's a bit inaccurate. I wouldn't consider Bulat to have been sexually harassing him... People are so sensitive to being flirted with today even in a joking or playful manners because as a society (especially western modern society) we have stigmatized sexuality in general. And so any overt gesture no matter how innocuous it may ultimately become an affront to the virtue or self-worth of the person in question when it never was intended as such. In fact, at least when I do this, it is a means of endearment to the individual in question not that I am really hitting on them. My more intelligent and good friends that I have done this with have responded in kind, knowing full well I am not serious and am not trying to grope them or whatever lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandstone Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 I wouldn't consider a lot of these characters to necessarily being homophobic representations, though there are some notable exceptions on your list that I would agree with, Puri Puri Prisoner being one of them, though I don't think the author was intending on legitimizing the portrayal but rather lampooning the fact that it is a prevalent portrayal in anime. Some of these I would deffinitely agree are gay by implication, this is frequently done in anime I think for cultural and sensibility reasons. That said some of the ones that are, such as Hisoka from HxH, are not being portrayed in a homophobic light but rather as an evil character that just happens to be gay, the Gourmet would be another example of this. By and large, most representations are not that of being creepy or evil though so I don't see that as an overall problem but rather just showing that gays are like any other people and can be complex characters with individual personalities, with or without major flaws or ill intentions. I would say you have a point about there being significantly less representation of gay characters that are shown with non-stereotypical mannerisms, i.e. gay men are shown as feminine and flamboyant and lesbians are shown as butch and crass people. This is not always the case, but it is very frequently in anime. I think this is not necessarily overt homophobia as it is a bad conception of what a gay person is on the part of the author. This is probably due to a number of major factors such as most manga authors being straight men, who obviously have very little first-hand experience with LGBT people unless they just have a very close relative or friend. And even then, there are admittedly a loud minority of people in real life that do portray those characteristics prominently. So it is entirely possible that they would have only that association to draw on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandstone Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 You might want to list name of character and what show they're from, instead of just posting pictures and assuming everyone knows who they are. To comment on a couple of them - Charlotte Cuulhorne's sexuality was never stated. You shouldn't assume things and stereotype, Mochi. =3 The other characters that are stated to be gay/bi or could be presumed to be are portrayed well, in my opinion, as is the trans character. Black, hispanic, etc characters also tend to be drawn and portrayed well. Say what you will about Bleach, but it's pretty good on representation. I already ranted about Ivankov and the Queens in the pinned One Piece thread in the Toonami folder. You can discuss it there if you like. But yeah, they're pretty awful. ben0119[/member] Haha, I said this in the other thread already, but it is worth mentioning that Ivankov and the Okamas in One Piece are some of my favorite LGBT characters in that they are portrayed as positive characters, that have significant plot roles and just happen to be gay and flamboyant. I have no problem with that portrayal as long as the character has a good personality to go with it, and are not just being treated as a setting prop (i.e. they are just there because they are gay). Mochi listed a character in his list which illustrates my above point exceptionally well. The character I am referring to is the gay (implied) master from Fairy Tail. He has a very bland personality, never does anything significant, and is only portrayed as making uncomfortable suggestions about the male protagonists. This is what I call the "Gay Pet Syndrome", and it is not exclusive to anime. This is a prevalent character archetype in media as a whole, especially in current era TV shows in the US and UK. The Gay Pet Syndrome is a term I use when at least three of the following qualifiers are present: 1. The character in question is gay and numerous unnecessary references are made to that effect. This is frequently done when group dialogue is going on in a lot of shows, as just a way to constantly remind everyone that the character is gay so they obviously are irrelevant to whatever was just said. This can also come in the form of the character bringing it up repeatedly for seemingly no reason. This is often extremely distracting to me. I would liken this too when you have a straight couple in a show that is just obnoxiously infatuated with each other and basically do nothing else but fawn over each other while on screen. 2. The character in question is gay and is always shown only with a group of people of the opposite sex "hanging out" or tagging along ONLY. This is where I originally derived the term from in the first place, this is one where you see rampant in teen-oriented dramas in TV and Movies, some examples of this type of show are 90210, Riverdale, Glee, and just about any show with Vampires, Werewolves, or Supernaturals in it. Essentially they are shown as an extension of another character or group of characters (most typically girls dragging around and fag hagging their gay friends). 3. The character in question is gay and has no relevance to the plot whatsoever. By this, I mean characters that are just in a show or movie because the author thought it was a great idea to be inclusive of gays and/or just thought it would be cute to include one. This is probably the most patronizing and offensive to me personally. It is basically like saying "You're here, you're Queer, and that's it", Note to authors: don't include LGBT characters if you are just going to have them there with no actual purpose. There are a couple of rather prominent examples of this type in The Walking Dead (though I love this show they do this with almost all of the characters they portray as being gay, which is to say they are just there to be gay). 4. The character in question is gay and is portrayed with a massive amount of gay stereotype related mannerisms, personality quirks, or memes. This is probably the least offensive to me of the group above believe it or not, and I really only find it offensive when paired with more than one of the others and if it is done to an obnoxiously high degree that ends up distracting from what would otherwise be a good and likable character. I have zero problems with gay men being portrayed as feminine, or eccentric in shows or lesbians being portrayed as masculine, or tomboys in shows but don't overdo it to the point where it detracts from the character's background, motives, plot, etc... And, especially don't do it if you are just using this as another method of expressing qualifier number 1. This is to say stereotypical actions/mannerisms that are repeated not because of the character's personality but in awkward ways in which no person would ever act. This is another example of bringing up the sexuality for seemingly no reason, it is super distracting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurgatoryGirl Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Speaking as a queer person, for the love of god could you shut up about LGBT+ representation for like ten minutes? It's exhausting to read, and it can't be healthy for you to be fixated on it constantly. There has to be something to your personality besides the fact that you like dicks that you can focus on occasionally. OMG! YES! Thank you so much for saying this! applause I knew I wasn't the only poster, who felt this way. Believe it or not, he has managed to ruin shows I really liked BECAUSE all he does is nit pick, whine, and psychoanalyze every character and show to death. Japan is NOT homophobic. The country is more accepting of homosexuals than here in America. There are Yaoi and Shonen Ai Anime, that exist and they are STILL not to his liking. At this rate, he might as well not watch anything because he's NEVER satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Speaking as a queer person, for the love of god could you shut up about LGBT+ representation for like ten minutes? It's exhausting to read, and it can't be healthy for you to be fixated on it constantly. There has to be something to your personality besides the fact that you like dicks that you can focus on occasionally. Oh, there is a little more to his personality... but it's about wanting Trump to start a nuclear war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Can we please not talk about that? It finally got out of the news, I don't want to be reminded of it again here of all places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatch Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Can we please not talk about that? It finally got out of the news, I don't want to be reminded of it again here of all places. Sounds good. I just wanted to pile on a bit. shithead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurgatoryGirl Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Can we please not talk about that? It finally got out of the news, I don't want to be reminded of it again here of all places. The fact that this community is so political and needs to politicize everything is 1 of the main reasons why I normally don't post. As of this past week, this is the most I have ever posted on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satou Kazuma Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 The fact that this community is so political and needs to politicize everything is 1 of the main reasons why I normally don't post. As of this past week, this is the most I have ever posted on this board. it's always mochi's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurgatoryGirl Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 it's always mochi's fault. I don't believe it is all his fault. Although, I will say his obsessive compulsive need to oppress others with his political agenda ad nauseum can be majorly repulsive. He loves roaming around UEMB complaining about shows he hates, especially Tokyo Ghoul. He did something similar on Lithium, when it came to Sailor Moon Crystal not being aired on Toonami like making 40 threads about it. I used to like watching Sailor Moon, before it ever aired on Toonami more than 20 years ago. Because of his obsession with it for obvious reasons, I have grown to hate Sailor Moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gun Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Haha, I said this in the other thread already, but it is worth mentioning that Ivankov and the Okamas in One Piece are some of my favorite LGBT characters in that they are portrayed as positive characters, that have significant plot roles and just happen to be gay and flamboyant. I have no problem with that portrayal as long as the character has a good personality to go with it, and are not just being treated as a setting prop (i.e. they are just there because they are gay). I could completely understand people having a problem with the random okama in the series, since despite being portrayed as good guys they do pile on that particular stereotype incredibly heavily, but for my money Ivankov is a downright progressive character. They (I feel justified going with gender-neutrals here) don't really give a damn about gender in the least, switching between both at a whim, and gives an equal lack of shits about how anyone views them. They're all about absolute personal freedom. He did something similar on Lithium, when it came to Sailor Moon Crystal not being aired on Toonami like making 40 threads about it. I used to like watching Sailor Moon, before it ever aired on Toonami more than 20 years ago. Because of his obsession with it for obvious reasons, I have grown to hate Sailor Moon. I really don't get this mentality. How does someone being an insufferable git about a certain piece of entertainment affect your own enjoyment of it in any way? Just ignore them and watch what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurgatoryGirl Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 I really don't get this mentality. How does someone being an insufferable git about a certain piece of entertainment affect your own enjoyment of it in any way? Just ignore them and watch what you want. When you have to constantly watch, listen, and read someone's complaints the whole time, you're bound to get annoyed after a while. Not that I have any huge attachment to a show or anything, but the incessant whining, nit picking, psychoanalyzing, politicizing, etc. can be a major turn off. Imagine being in the movie theater and having to sit through someone complaining the whole 90 minutes or so of the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Well the Internet's not a movie theater. You have the option of not paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurgatoryGirl Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Well the Internet's not a movie theater. You have the option of not paying attention. Very true. This is another reason why I normally don't participate in most show threads on this board. They're mostly filled with fights and complaints. Sometimes I lurk to see what other posters are saying about a show. Once I see threads being derailed with someone loudly protesting about disliking a show like they always are, I typically skip to another thread, page, sub-forum, or do something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I could completely understand people having a problem with the random okama in the series, since despite being portrayed as good guys they do pile on that particular stereotype incredibly heavily, but for my money Ivankov is a downright progressive character. They (I feel justified going with gender-neutrals here) don't really give a damn about gender in the least, switching between both at a whim, and gives an equal lack of shits about how anyone views them. They're all about absolute personal freedom. I dunno, seems forced, manufactured, and tone deaf, to me. Like, this is what Oda thinks gay people are like and throws it in your face, probably thinks he is being inclusive and progressive with it. Maybe even well-intended. So were lots of other offensive portrayals over the history of entertainment. And have you seen what they look like? Freakish and inhuman, to say the least. As I said, they look out of place even in One Piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 ben0119[/member] Haha, I said this in the other thread already, but it is worth mentioning that Ivankov and the Okamas in One Piece are some of my favorite LGBT characters in that they are portrayed as positive characters, that have significant plot roles and just happen to be gay and flamboyant. I have no problem with that portrayal as long as the character has a good personality to go with it, and are not just being treated as a setting prop (i.e. they are just there because they are gay). Yeah they are good guys, significant, and not weaklings, etc. but they are about as over-the-top and stereotypical as you can get. Like I said, they're cartoonishly gay. Is this justified because One Piece is cartoonish? I don't think so. There's also no non-stereotypical gay characters to counterbalance them. I love Bon Clay and he was fine on his own, and never explicitely stated to be gay, and not nearly as over-the-top as these new characters, which just take it to a whole other level. And it's all out of nowhere. Where did this come from? Not to mention I just find that type of super effeminate gay character/person/voice annoying in general. Doesn't help that TV shows are peppered with such characters and TV hosts, etc. It's like the entertainment industry doesn't know any other kind of gay people exist, or they can't advertise how "inclusive" and "progressive" they are if the person isn't stereotypically gay, like people won't notice or pick up on it or something. Mochi listed a character in his list which illustrates my above point exceptionally well. The character I am referring to is the gay (implied) master from Fairy Tail. He has a very bland personality, never does anything significant, and is only portrayed as making uncomfortable suggestions about the male protagonists. This is what I call the "Gay Pet Syndrome", and it is not exclusive to anime. This is a prevalent character archetype in media as a whole, especially in current era TV shows in the US and UK. The Gay Pet Syndrome is a term I use when at least three of the following qualifiers are present: 1. The character in question is gay and numerous unnecessary references are made to that effect. This is frequently done when group dialogue is going on in a lot of shows, as just a way to constantly remind everyone that the character is gay so they obviously are irrelevant to whatever was just said. This can also come in the form of the character bringing it up repeatedly for seemingly no reason. This is often extremely distracting to me. I would liken this too when you have a straight couple in a show that is just obnoxiously infatuated with each other and basically do nothing else but fawn over each other while on screen. Kinda like Mochi? > 2. The character in question is gay and is always shown only with a group of people of the opposite sex "hanging out" or tagging along ONLY. This is where I originally derived the term from in the first place, this is one where you see rampant in teen-oriented dramas in TV and Movies, some examples of this type of show are 90210, Riverdale, Glee, and just about any show with Vampires, Werewolves, or Supernaturals in it. Essentially they are shown as an extension of another character or group of characters (most typically girls dragging around and fag hagging their gay friends). Noticed this on some Hair Goddess reality show show I had on in the background that I made the mistake of not changing the channel off of. This guy was so obnoxious and getting in his friend's face doing her makeup. I swear fiction is bleeding into the real world and vise versa. To be fair the other people on the show are annoying as fuck too. They're from Staten Island. 3. The character in question is gay and has no relevance to the plot whatsoever. By this, I mean characters that are just in a show or movie because the author thought it was a great idea to be inclusive of gays and/or just thought it would be cute to include one. This is probably the most patronizing and offensive to me personally. It is basically like saying "You're here, you're Queer, and that's it", Note to authors: don't include LGBT characters if you are just going to have them there with no actual purpose. There are a couple of rather prominent examples of this type in The Walking Dead (though I love this show they do this with almost all of the characters they portray as being gay, which is to say they are just there to be gay). 4. The character in question is gay and is portrayed with a massive amount of gay stereotype related mannerisms, personality quirks, or memes. This is probably the least offensive to me of the group above believe it or not, and I really only find it offensive when paired with more than one of the others and if it is done to an obnoxiously high degree that ends up distracting from what would otherwise be a good and likable character. I have zero problems with gay men being portrayed as feminine, or eccentric in shows or lesbians being portrayed as masculine, or tomboys in shows but don't overdo it to the point where it detracts from the character's background, motives, plot, etc... And, especially don't do it if you are just using this as another method of expressing qualifier number 1. This is to say stereotypical actions/mannerisms that are repeated not because of the character's personality but in awkward ways in which no person would ever act. This is another example of bringing up the sexuality for seemingly no reason, it is super distracting to me. I don't see how you don't find Ivanov distracting. He seemingly behaves in a way to just constantly remind you he's gay and doesn't act like any real person would act. As I said I like Bon Clay but Ivankov just takes it to a whole other level and is just too annoying and feels out of place to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 from what I saw Bulaut only said one suggestive line to Tatsumi when they first met and never harrassed him after that, though I've only seen the dub and the dub did a lot to cover up Tatsumi's lines calling Bulaut a Rapist (namely they got rid of them entirely) also Bulaut isn't the greatest representation of a Gay person I'll admit that, but compared to characters like Puri Puri Prisoner it at least seems like the writers were actually trying to make a positive gay character since he's not drawn hideously and paranoia about rape or not Tatsumi actually liked and respected him as a person I dunno he was constantly all over him and making passes at him, saying sexual stuff, etc. Seemed inappropriate and invasion of personal space at least, to me. Well, that is true. He could've been a lot worse, like you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 That's a bit inaccurate. I wouldn't consider Bulat to have been sexually harassing him... People are so sensitive to being flirted with today even in a joking or playful manners because as a society (especially western modern society) we have stigmatized sexuality in general. And so any overt gesture no matter how innocuous it may ultimately become an affront to the virtue or self-worth of the person in question when it never was intended as such. In fact, at least when I do this, it is a means of endearment to the individual in question not that I am really hitting on them. My more intelligent and good friends that I have done this with have responded in kind, knowing full well I am not serious and am not trying to grope them or whatever lmao. Well people that sexually harass others often think they aren't doing anything wrong and are just "being complimentary" or "joking", etc. I dunno have you seen all the porn and our celebrities and entertainment? Or just the way some people are? You should see some people's social media. I think our society is more open and okay with it than it's ever been. Still, that doesn't mean everyone has the same standards about it in general, including other people "flirting" or whatever you would call it. And if it's done a lot it can be quite annoying, at best. Comments like "if you were a girl I'd like to be with you/have sex with you," commenting about your feet, asking if you're nude underneath covers (had a cover on while I was playing videogames), etc seems pretty inappropriate to me. I had some guy do this I was friends with in junior high/high school. Eventually stopped being friends with him because of those and other issues. I suppose if it was someone I knew, who wasn't being creepy and/or annoying, it would be one thing. I dunno. Might still get on my nerves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 I dunno he was constantly all over him and making passes at him, saying sexual stuff, etc. Seemed inappropriate and invasion of personal space at least, to me. Well, that is true. He could've been a lot worse, like you said. the way they framed his flirting it was obvious he was joking also Tatsumi liked him so I don't think Tatsumi really thought Bulaut was gonna rape him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 the way they framed his flirting it was obvious he was joking also Tatsumi liked him so I don't think Tatsumi really thought Bulaut was gonna rape him Yeah, maybe. Some of it did seem like it went too far to me, though. Then again it's been a while since I've seen the show and it wasn't that memorable. I actually had to look up Tatsumi's name because I didn't remember it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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