ITN: Israel

[katt_goddess]

Republicans don't believe in letting anyone have a choice, do they? Not all Jews want to 'go back to the Homeland' but pretty damn sure they all would like to not have to worry about getting punched or shot on the street just for being Jewish. 

[Master-Debater131]

Israel considering flooding Hamas’ underground tunnel network with salt water: report

https://nypost.com/2023/12/04/news/israel-considering-flooding-hamas-underground-tunnel-network-with-seawater-report/

"Israel is considering flooding Hamas’ underground network of tunnels in Gaza with ocean water as part of its plan to completely decimate the terrorist group that rules over the Palestinian territory, according to a report.

The Israel Defense Forces assembled at least five pumps that could be used to draw water from the Mediterranean Sea to flush out the tunnels within a matter of weeks, US officials told the Wall Street Journal.

The military completed the system, built about one mile north of the Al-Shati refugee camp, around the middle of last month, according to the paper. Each pump has the power to move thousands of cubic meters of water per hour into at least 800 tunnels used by Hamas to move through Gaza without detection."

 

Good. Flood the rats out. This has been an obvious answer for a while now on how to deal with the tunnels. Egypt proved that by flooding them you can render them totally unusable for  a very long time. Israel can use the same tactic and force the rats out of their holes.

[scoobdog]

 No, it’s not good.  Introducing millions of gallons of water into sandy soil could cause the soil to liquify and result in building collapse.  If you recall, one of the biggest underground bunkers is under the hospital.

[Insipid]

6 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

😱

[Master-Debater131]

Weve gone from "will they" to "they already are" flooding them out in 24 hours.

Israel has started the process of flooding the Hamas tunnels.

 

Video from inside the tunnels as the flooding starts and a view from the other side opening the pumps.

 

 

Calling their "operation" "Flood of Al Aqsa" really did turn into some epic foreshadowing. Now Israel just has to wait for the rats to scurry to the surface as the tunnels start to fill up. This is the answer to the question on how to clear the tunnels. You dont, you simply flood them and make them totally inoperable for a very long time. Beyond being the tactically smart move by Israel, there is some thick irony in delivering the sea directly to the doorsteps of the people who chant the genocidal slogan "from the river to the sea".

 

[Mix]

I can't believe the newly freed hostages are angry with my buddy Netanyahu. 

So they got shelled a few times. Everyone's getting shelled over there. 

It's like I told him last year when he thought about quitting, I said, "don't you dare quit on yourself! Give yourself every opportunity to succeed!"

I was talking out of my ass, obviously. I thought he was fucked. The timing of this war saved his ass.

Now, he is super grateful. He's always calling to thank me and to offer me asylum or whatever. Good guy, that Netanyahu.

[scoobdog]

3 hours ago, Anthony Devulder said:

I can't believe the newly freed hostages are angry with my buddy Netanyahu. 

So they got shelled a few times. Everyone's getting shelled over there. 

It's like I told him last year when he thought about quitting, I said, "don't you dare quit on yourself! Give yourself every opportunity to succeed!"

I was talking out of my ass, obviously. I thought he was fucked. The timing of this war saved his ass.

Now, he is super grateful. He's always calling to thank me and to offer me asylum or whatever. Good guy, that Netanyahu.

I would hold off on that asylum offer for a li'l bit - at least until all the future sink holes in Gaza settle.  I mean, give the guy credit:  finding a way to turn a foreign country into Florida and not somehow get shellacked by a con man is an accomplishment all itself.

[katt_goddess]

And who exactly says that Hamas will save the hostages? The hostages die from drowning, it wasn't Hamas that drown them after all and I can almost guarantee that that's exactly how they'll frame it. 

[naraku360]

10 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

 

So, like, what's stopping Hamas from evacuating and leaving the hostages to drown?

[scoobdog]

So, we can all agree flooding tunnels = lots of dead people ≠ dead Hamas, right?

[katt_goddess]

17 hours ago, scoobdog said:

So, we can all agree flooding tunnels = lots of dead people ≠ dead Hamas, right?

As long as the bloated bodies that eventually pour out don't have any fatal bullet holes in them, Hamas can and will claim that Israel killed them. 

Hostages are only bargaining chips when they aren't dead weight. Between hauling out a child and a bunch of guns-n-ammo, Hamas is going to go full NRA and save the guns.  

[matrixman124]

HMMMMMMMM

 

[matrixman124]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study

An actual study shows the disturbingly high number of civilian casualties in Gaza: over 61%

[scoobdog]

On 12/10/2023 at 7:41 AM, matrixman124 said:

HMMMMMMMM

 

I'm not going to bother looking up the article to this obvious click-bait headline.  Suffice it to say that genocide doesn't need to be one sided - the term can equally apply to the actions of all members of Hamas, who clearly annunciate the destruction of Israel as part of their platform, and to the actions of a select few in Israel's government and defense force that allow indiscriminate targeting of unarmed and unaffiliated Palestinian citizens.  The problem is that the term is being coopted by bad actors who will use the term as a cultural component rather than specific to actions and words. 

[matrixman124]

Another loaded question headline that's trying to slander anyone who is against Zionist extremism as anti-Semites.

This would make some Jewish people anti-Semitic since they are against what the Zionists are doing.

[scoobdog]

16 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Another loaded question headline that's trying to slander anyone who is against Zionist extremism as anti-Semites.

This would make some Jewish people anti-Semitic since they are against what the Zionists are doing.

It isn’t loaded.  Anti-Zionism isn’t a thing because it conflates Israeli statehood with extremism elements in Jewish society.  It’s a trojan horse for white supremacists who wish to use the Palestinian cause as a vehicle for their virulent antisemitism.

The problem is that a lot of Americans don’t know how to differentiate extremist elements within Jewish society.  For the same reason a vast majority of reasonable Americans can be saddled with worthless wretch that they didn’t vote for (Trump), a majority of Israeli people have to contend with corrupt self-dealing Netanyahu without having voted for him.  That isn’t something that’s easily presented in an argument for Palestinian rights and it’s why supposedly intelligent and capable university presidents end up waffling when all pro Palestinian protests are portrayed as antisemitism.  There has to be separation between Israel’s right to exist as a state and elements within that state that turn a blind eye to illegal settlements and use terrorism laws to incarcerate non violent Palestinian; that separation disappears when a term like Anti-Zionism is used to describe Israel’s government’s actions.

[Master-Debater131]

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-777767

Hamas leaders leave Qatar for unknown destination - report

Several Hamas leaders left Qatar for an unknown destination, turning off their phones and not accepting calls, KAN's Arabic language channel reported citing sources in Doha on Tuesday evening.

 

Additionally, on Tuesday, KAN news reported that Saleh al-Arouri, a senior member of Hamas, left his usual residence in Beirut for Turkey.

 

 

Im sure this has nothing to do with Israel telling Mossad to go hunt down and kill any Hamas leader they can. I wonder what wonderful hellhole they will pop up in. My bet is Iran or some other country who is either actively supporting or sympathetic to Hamas. Wherever it is, it probably wont be out of reach of Mossad though. They will get them eventually.

[Master-Debater131]

Turkish lawmaker who had heart attack after saying Israel ‘will suffer the wrath of Allah’ dies

https://nypost.com/2023/12/14/news/turkish-lawmaker-who-had-heart-attack-slamming-israel-dies/

 

Thats some Wrath of God type shit right there, either that or Israel has a Death Note. Literally when he finishes his speech he drops dead.

[matrixman124]

IDF killed 3 Israeli hostages thinking they were combatants. This needs to end.

[matrixman124]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

IDF killed 3 Israeli hostages thinking they were combatants. This needs to end.

Looks like the IDF regularly fires on Palestinian women dressed in hijabs. Better safe than sorry! (JESUS FUCKING CHRIST)

[matrixman124]

AHHHHHHHHHHH

[Master-Debater131]

Hamas said to reject Israeli offer for 7-day truce in Gaza, release of 40 hostages

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-reject-israeli-offer-for-7-day-truce-in-gaza-release-of-40-hostages/

"Hamas has rejected an Israeli proposal for a week-long truce in the Gaza Strip in return for the release of some 40 hostages, including all women and children the terror group still holds, according to a report Wednesday.

Citing Egyptian officials, the Wall Street Journal reported that under the rejected proposal, Hamas would also free elderly male hostages who require urgent medical care. In exchange, Israel would halt air and ground operations in Gaza for a week and allow increased aid into the coastal territory.

But Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad — another Iran-backed terror organization slated to take part in negotiations for the first time — reportedly told Egyptian mediators Israel must end its offensive in the Strip before they will discuss any potential deal.

 

Even then, the report said Islamic Jihad demanded that Israel free all Palestinian prisoners for the release of all remaining hostages — estimated at some 100.

Israel has said it will not halt its military campaign, and that this condition is a non-starter for talks."

 

 

[scoobdog]

For those wondering why Hamas would reject the offer, this from The Guardian:

Quote

Israel is losing the war against Hamas – but Netanyahu and his government will never admit it.

by Paul Rogers

The official narrative has been that Hamas is weakened, but in reality the IDF’s doctrine of massive force is failing

10:00 EST Thursday, 21 December 2023

Until recently the war narrative on Gaza has been very largely controlled by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and the country’s ministry of defence. Israel’s international reputation may have plummeted with the killing of more than 20,000 Palestinians, the wounding of more than 50,000 and the destruction of much of Gaza, but the IDF could still sell a plausible narrative of a severely weakened Hamas, even claiming that the war in northern Gaza was largely complete, and success in southern Gaza would follow before too long.

The narrative was helped by severe difficulties for the few journalists still operating in Gaza, including the risk to their personal safety, while the international press corps was stuck in Jerusalem and dependent on IDF sources for much of their information.

That changed as a different picture began to emerge. First there was a lack of evidence to support the IDF’s claim of a Hamas headquarters under al-Shifa hospital, then the IDF could not identify the location of the Israeli hostages, despite having some of the world’s most advanced intelligence.

Very recently there have been two further incidents. On 12 December, there was a skilful triple ambush staged by Hamas paramilitaries in a part of Gaza supposedly controlled by Israeli forces. An IDF unit was ambushed and took casualties. Further troops were sent to aid that unit, and they were then ambushed, as were reinforcements.

Ten IDF soldiers were reported killed and other seriously wounded, but it was their seniority that counted, including as it did a colonel and three majors from the elite Golani Brigade. That Hamas, supposedly decimated and with thousands of troops already killed, could mount such an operation anywhere in Gaza, let alone a district reportedly already under IDF control, should raise doubts about the idea that Israel is making substantial progress in the war.

A further indication came a few days later, when three Israeli hostages succeeded in getting away from their captors, only to be killed by IDF soldiers, even though shirtless and carrying a white flag. What has since made that worse, and is causing considerable anger in Israel, is that calls from the hostages were picked up by an audio-equipped IDF search-dog five days before they were killed.

There are other, wider indications of the IDF’s problems. Official casualty figures have shown more than 460 military personnel killed in Gaza, Israel and the occupied West Bank and about 1,900 wounded. But other sources suggest far greater numbers of wounded. Ten days ago, Israel’s leading daily, Yedioth Ahronoth, published information obtained from the ministry of defence’s rehabilitation department. This put casualty numbers at more than 5,000, with 58% of them classed as serious and more than 2,000 officially recognised as disabled. There have also been a number of friendly fire casualties, with the Times of Israel reporting 20 out of 105 deaths due to such fire or accidents during fighting.

Overall, the IDF is still following the well-rehearsed Dahiya doctrine of massive force in responding to irregular war, causing extensive social and economic damage, undermining the will of the insurgents to fight while deterring future threats to Israel’s security. But it is going badly wrong. Criticism is coming from unexpected quarters, including from the former UK defence minister, Ben Wallace, who has warned of an impact lasting 50 years. Even the Biden administration is becoming thoroughly uneasy at what is unfolding, yet Benjamin Netanyahu and the war cabinet are determined to continue for as long as they can.

It is worth recognising why. The 7 October attacks and the brutality involved struck Israel’s assumption of security to the core, which means that the great majority of Israeli Jews have so far continued to support Netanyahu’s response. Even that, though, is fraying and is made worse by the killing of the three hostages by IDF troops.

An effect of all this is that the IDF commanders are coming under huge pressure to succeed, and will go as far as the war cabinet will allow. Many of those commanders are highly intelligent if inevitably single-minded people, and will now know that for all Netanyahu’s rhetoric, Hamas, or at least Hamas’s ideas, cannot be defeated by military force. They also know that while talks are stalling, pressure from the families of hostages may soon result in another humanitarian pause. Therefore, their aim will be to damage Hamas as much as they can, as quickly as they can, while they can, whatever the cost to Palestinians. For evidence of this approach, witness this week’s intense air raids.

What makes that possible is Netanyahu’s dependence on an extremist minority of religious fundamentalists and trenchant Zionists in his government. They would not have anything like the wider support in Israel were it not for the tragedy of 7 October, yet they are doing more and more harm to Israel’s long-term security. Not only does Israel risk becoming a pariah state, even among its allies, but it will also fuel a generation of radical opposition from a reconstituted Hamas or its inevitable successor.

It needs saving from itself, but that will depend, more than anything, on Joe Biden and the people around him. Perhaps pushed on by the rapidly changing public mood in western Europe, they must recognise their role in bringing an immediate end to this conflict.

Paul Rogers is emeritus professor of peace studies at Bradford University and an honorary fellow at the Joint Service Command and Staff College.

To oversimplify the point: using excessive force, no matter how justified it might be, always yields diminishing results the more intense and sustained it is.  It's not so much a matter of comparing results of these sustained offensives (namely the degree of collateral casualties), which is problematic in its own right - failing to match the offensive to the enemy forces inevitably leads to failed objectives.

Even before the sustained bombardment led to the unfolding tragedy in Gaza, it was imminently clear that any kind of organized military campaign was going to be rife for failure.  The IDF started with a stunning intelligence failure and left with few viable options, all of which were built into Hamas' planning.  The more viable option should have been to close the border between Gaza and Israel which, although it still represented a potential human catastrophe, didn't result in the sheer chaos of the other option.  At the very least, a blockade gave the international community opportunity to step in and provide aid.  The death of options was compounded by the fact that the failure came as the Israeli government has been teetering on instability because of the hard right forcing anti-democratic initiatives through on top of failing to act on murderous, violent Jewish settlers.  The response has always been less informed by sound practices for dealing with a terrorist organization and by sucking the air out of growing detractors of the current governing coalition's actions.

It was always a foregone conclusion that Hamas would wait out the onslaught long enough for the campaign to flounder, but it doesn't come without its own risks.  This piece from CNN has some unsettling points, but it's helpful to understand why support for Hamas has changed inside of the Palestinian territories.  In particular, the willingness to avoid any kind of depictions of the horrific October 7th attacks in order to maintain deniability suggests two things - (1) that Palestinians have a fundamental inability to process the horrors of Hamas' actions in context of their own oppression, and (2) that Palestinians have to also contend with their own ineffectual representation both inside their territories and on the world stage.  At the same time, it has a limit because every Palestinian will eventually have to reckon with what Hamas did without their permission but on their behalf nonetheless.  The problem is that the Netanyahu's reckless crusade has continued to delay this reckoning by forcing Palestinians to prioritize their very survival over fostering their sense of humanity, and that too has given Hamas much needed cover as it fights for its own political survival.

It's also given cover to the rampant anti-Semitism that has festered like a wound and reversed some of the important-if-paltry gains we've made since Trump lost the 2020 election.

[Master-Debater131]

Hezbollah confirms: Senior member of the organization killed in Israeli strike

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/383037

"

The Hezbollah terrorist organization confirmed overnight Wednesday that Hussein Yazbek, the group’s official in charge of the Naqoura area, was killed in an Israeli air strike in southern Lebanon.

According to the organization's announcement, three other members of the organization were eliminated alongside Yazbek: Ibrahim Fahs, Hossein Ghazala and Hadi Reda. Since the beginning of the war, Hezbollah announced that 146 of its terrorists have been eliminated.

In addition, the organization claimed responsibility for 11 operations against Israel on the Lebanese border that were carried out in the last day."

 

Very nicely done Israel. Keep up the good work!

[Icarus27k]

A U.S.-led what now? 

 

 

 

Edited January 5 by Icarus27k

[scoobdog]

11 minutes ago, Icarus27k said:

A U.S.-led what now? 

 

 

 

It's not a great proposal, but it stands in stark contrast to a downright evil counterproposal of "encourage a voluntary" forced migration.

[Icarus27k]

A bunch of experts and media people are really wanting the Israel-Gaza war to escalate to a regional conflict because they are bored. A lot of articles are going with that premise. 

 

In reality, if they do start, regional conflicts start within days of initial fighting. Therefore, I'm dismissing these articles as alarmist. 

[MasqueradeOverture]

NYC had its rush hour hit today

[Master-Debater131]

Couple of big developments today. First:

IDF gains control of key Gaza village in south after weeks of fighting

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-781609

"Khirbat Ikhza'a is just slightly southeast of Khan Yunis, making it an important strategic location for cutting off Hamas forces from maneuvering or fleeing in various directions there."

 

And Second:

Israel could deport Hamas leaders, withdraw from Gaza in Qatari proposal

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-781602

"A new Qatari proposal for a ceasefire would see the leaders of Hamas all be deported and all of the hostages captured by the terrorist group released in exchange for the withdrawal of the IDF from Gaza, according to news revealed by Channel 13 citing sources close to officials in Doha, Qatar.

 

If such a proposal were implemented, hostages would be released in stages."

 

These two things are absolutely tied together. Israel is winning this war, and are proving to be committed to hunting and killing every Hamas terrorist and leader they can. They are going further than they ever have before, and the thought that this would just blow over clearly was wrong. As Israel continues to capture these key locations Hamas has fewer and fewer places to flee. Thats forcing Hamas, and their backers, to recalculate how they do things. Previously they could offer a single hostage for a few hundred captured terrorists. Cant do that anymore as Israel is clearly not going back to the status quo. Hamas also cant continue to fight because their tunnels are being destroyed and Israel has total dominance of the area.

If this were a normal war then at this point Hamas would be open to surrender and looking for peace. But Hamas is a death cult and they would rather see every single person in Gaza die than give up control. The peace deal that Qatar put forward was already rejected by Hamas. So this war is going to continue, and its entire because of Hamas.

[matrixman124]

South Africa is using IDF Tik Toks and other social media as part of their International Court of Justice case that they are committing atrocities including genocide against the Palestinian civilians.

Israel is saying that South Africa is part of Hamas.

 

Edited January 11 by matrixman124

[Master-Debater131]

 

Fetterman is racking up a lot of Ws lately.

[naraku360]

Joel is a legend for being able to handle this article and maintaining composure. Some of this is way too crazy to not just mock relentlessly, but it's effectively MD's stance.

Edited January 13 by naraku360

[naraku360]

MD: Think of the children!

Normal people:

MD:

 

[katt_goddess]

Since the start of this war, 1% of all Palestinians in Gaza have been killed. The bulk of that isn't 'Hamas', it's kids. There isn't even a viable percentage of that 1% that could be called actual 'Hamas'. It's just kids and civilians. 

[Master-Debater131]

Some potentially big developments going on right now.

Iran has apparently launched a ballistic missile strike in Iraq that was very close to the US Consulate in Erbil.

 

 

Not a lot of word on what was hit. Some early rumors are that it was a Mossad outpost, but no one has confirmed it yet.

[Mix]

Woah, is this still going on?

I guess my therapist was right, I don't care about anyone but myself.

Though she did say that when she broke up with me, so it might not have been her professional opinion.

 

[Icarus27k]

Ever since the Ukraine war started in 2022, I've been following a bunch of supposed experts on geopolitics. Usually people from think tanks, academia, and former government officials.

 

I've been convinced over half of them have no idea what they are talking about. 

[Insipid]

7 hours ago, Icarus27k said:

Ever since the Ukraine war started in 2022, I've been following a bunch of supposed experts on geopolitics. Usually people from think tanks, academia, and former government officials.

 

I've been convinced over half of them have no idea what they are talking about. 

I've always thought the term sounded so stupid anyway, think tank. Reminds me of Richard Nixon's head in a jar on Fururama.

[Icarus27k]

Sounds far fetched. I mean, have you seen us in America?

[Icarus27k]

Although, it would be funny if the U.S. suddenly pulls out of a hat an end to the current Gaza war and a Palestinian state next to Israel. 

[Mix]

4 hours ago, Icarus27k said:

Although, it would be funny if the U.S. suddenly pulls out of a hat an end to the current Gaza war and a Palestinian state next to Israel. 

America - "So how 'bout you give us the hostages and we give you Afghanistan?"

Hamas - "What?"

America - "It's an empty lot, freshly bulldozed. You can build the home of your dreams."

Israel - "But, eh, if they accept the deal, they all have to go and Gaza is ours, yes?"

America - "Dude, chill. I'm trying to do something here."

Hamas - "What about the Afghans? Not to mention the Taliban. Where do they go?"

America - "Look, lets not pretend you don't know how this works. You section off an area for them, build some walls, put up some guard towers, tell the world they are dangerous people. Come on, I gotta walk you through this?"

Hamas - "uhhh, we're...probably going to need some weapons...to defend...ourselves."

America - "No problem."

Hamas - "Missiles?"

America - "Sure, why not."

Hamas - "Then it's a deal."

Israel - "So you all leave Gaza and Gaza is ou..."

Hamas - "Yes, yes, Jesus Christ, you can have the place, you lunatic."

Israel - "Jesus?"

Hamas - "I mean....fuck it, who cares, i'm out of here."

[Master-Debater131]

Herzog: ‘No Israelis in their right mind’ are thinking about peace process right now

https://www.timesofisrael.com/herzog-nobody-in-his-right-mind-is-thinking-about-peace-process-right-now/

Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, next to a photo of one-year-old Israeli hostage Kfir Bibas, President Isaac Herzog said on Thursday that Israelis are not able to think about a peace process with the Palestinians right now.

“If you ask an average Israeli now about his or her mental state, nobody in his right mind is willing now to think about what will be the solution of the peace agreements,” he said in an interview on the WEF main stage, “because everybody wants to know: Can we be promised real safety in the future?”

After the unprecedented slaughter in southern Israel by Hamas terrorists on October 7, “every Israeli wants to know that he will not be attacked in the same way from north or south or east,” Herzog said.

 

And they shouldnt be. The 10/7 attacks showed that its impossible to have any meaningful peace as long as Hamas exists. The attacks also have something like 75% support from the people in Gaza. So until their mindset is changed and they recognize the fact that Israel has a right to exist theres no way we will see any peace. Every time Israel has tried for peace they have been stabbed in the back. At this point they continue to be fully justified in their war to root out and destroy Hamas.

[Icarus27k]

The U.S. will start to insist on a peace process if Israel continues to resist it. I wouldn't be surprised if military aid to Israel starts to be conditional based on that. All done quietly though. 

[stilgar]

It's good to see md is in favor of genocide.

[scoobdog]

Israel eschews the peace process at their own peril.

[katt_goddess]

Netanyahu is what happens when history isn't learned, just repeated. 

I wonder if he too is a militant vegan whose farts can also clear a room. 

[Master-Debater131]

Hamas bigwig rejects 2-state solution, says Oct. 7 ‘revived dream to free Palestine’

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-bigwig-rejects-2-state-solution-says-oct-7-revived-dream-to-free-palestine/

"Senior Hamas official Khaled Mashaal has dismissed the possibility of a two-state solution and said that his terror group’s devastating October 7 assault on Israel proved that liberating Palestine “from the river to the sea” is a realistic idea.

In an interview with Kuwaiti podcaster Ammar Taki last week, Mashaal, a former top leader of the terror group, said that there is “nearly a consensus” among Palestinians that they will not give up their rights to the land stretching “from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea” — that is, the West Bank, Gaza and all of Israel.

Mashaal noted that the slogan is also regularly chanted at rallies by “American students and in European capitals,” and said that the October 7 onslaught has “revived that dream.”

 

The Hamas bigwig categorically rejected the option of a political settlement with Israel and a two-state solution to the conflict, on the grounds that it would imply recognizing the legitimacy of the State of Israel, an “unacceptable” red line for the terror movement."

 

This isnt really a surprise. Hamas has no intention of ever accepting a 2 state solution and recognizing the right of Israel to exist. And thanks to the useful idiots in the West out there chanting the genocidal slogan "from the river to the sea" they are emboldened to keep up the fight. Israel really has no other option than to continue the operation to wipe Hamas out. Thats the only chance that there will ever be peace and a 2 state solution.

[scoobdog]

What was the point of posting that, again?   To prove that Hamas is out of touch with reality?  I think we all knew that.  Doesn't change the fact that the reality is a true two state solution is probably the only viable path forward:  you can't keep neutering Palestinian self-governing and expect Hamas to be destroyed.  Hamas exists because Israel hasn't given the Palestinians the resources to effectively govern while continually walling them off.

[Master-Debater131]

Gazans call for release of Israeli hostages in rare protest against Hamas

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rjgqmd0t6

IDF Arabic Spokesperson Lieutenant Colonel Avichay Adraee posted on Wednesday footage of a rare protest against Hamas near the Shuhada al-Aqsa Hospital in Deir al-Balah, central Gaza Strip.

"Hamas-ISIS leaders, led by Sinwar, listen to the cries of your people, your children and your wives expressing their anger over the situation you caused in Gaza," he wrote in a post on X (formerly Twitter) to which the video was attached."

 

 

The people of Gaza may be waking up to the reality that Hamas isnt worth sticking with.

[Master-Debater131]

6 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Doesn't change the fact that the reality is a true two state solution is probably the only viable path forward: 

You, and others, keep saying that as if its even remotely possible with Hamas in charge. 

 

Until everyone accepts the reality that the 2 state solution is dead as long as Hamas exists then there is no way forward.