1pooh4u Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 29 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: How do you even combat that? They are shown the actual videos taken by Hamas themselves, and they are saying they are fakes. If you saw any of the leaked videos, or what got posted on telegram, there's no way you can view them and think that they are fakes. Israel almost has to release everything they have at this point. Put the entire unedited, and unblurred, video out there and let these people try and deny it. Israel releasing everything won’t help because the government and military has zero credibility. Hamas admitted what they have done. They named the attack ffs, and still you got antisemitic yahoos saying “it never happened” 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 35 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said: Israel releasing everything won’t help because the government and military has zero credibility. Hamas admitted what they have done. They named the attack ffs, and still you got antisemitic yahoos saying “it never happened” Then how do you combat this? How did it even get to this point? They wont accept that the videos that Hamas themselves videoed and bragged about, so how do you possibly pierce that bubble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 9 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: Then how do you combat this? How did it even get to this point? They wont accept that the videos that Hamas themselves videoed and bragged about, so how do you possibly pierce that bubble? We can’t so I guess we don’t. The more you try to convince these people that the events of 10/7 definitely took place, the more they will dig in to say “no they didn’t”. Have you ever changed anyone’s mind about anything you disagreed with them? I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve changed anyone’s mind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 8 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said: We can’t so I guess we don’t. The more you try to convince these people that the events of 10/7 definitely took place, the more they will dig in to say “no they didn’t”. Have you ever changed anyone’s mind about anything you disagreed with them? I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve changed anyone’s mind. Sadly your probably right. If the literal videos of the attack shot from the perspective of the attacker wont change minds, nothing will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said: Then how do you combat this? How did it even get to this point? They wont accept that the videos that Hamas themselves videoed and bragged about, so how do you possibly pierce that bubble? There are nazis who hide behind holocaust denial as a way to push approval without accepting responsibility for their views. I don't think there are many sincere holocaust deniers, and I would question the sincerity of anyone denying Oct. 7 being Hamas' doing. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done. It's a war of information, so education and media are pretty much what we have, and neither are fast or reliable methods. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, 1pooh4u said: Have you ever changed anyone’s mind about anything you disagreed with them? Regularly. 😎 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 48 minutes ago, naraku360 said: There are nazis who hide behind holocaust denial as a way to push approval without accepting responsibility for their views. I don't think there are many sincere holocaust deniers, and I would question the sincerity of anyone denying Oct. 7 being Hamas' doing. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done. It's a war of information, so education and media are pretty much what we have, and neither are fast or reliable methods. Theres, sadly, a large number of people who deny the holocaust now. Theres been polling done showing that a significant number of people dont think it happened. https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4349815-poll-americans-holocaust-myth/ 1 in 5 young Americans think its a myth according to this poll. Thats a horrifyingly high number. Post WW2 Germans were faced with the images of what the Nazis did. Now when faced with the same sort of imagery people say its fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 12 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: Theres, sadly, a large number of people who deny the holocaust now. Theres been polling done showing that a significant number of people dont think it happened. https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4349815-poll-americans-holocaust-myth/ 1 in 5 young Americans think its a myth according to this poll. Thats a horrifyingly high number. Post WW2 Germans were faced with the images of what the Nazis did. Now when faced with the same sort of imagery people say its fake. Oh, I'm aware. I just mean that a lot of people are insincere in holding that belief, particularly within media spaces. I guess I was thinking more in terms of people with political agendas and the weight to swing it rather than the average person. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 27 minutes ago, naraku360 said: Regularly. 😎 Stop lying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Just now, 1pooh4u said: Stop lying Bitch, please. I've changed minds in Youtube comments. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katt_goddess Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 3 hours ago, naraku360 said: Bitch, please. I've changed minds in Youtube comments. Oh ye gods, now that's a side boob that goes all the way to the spine. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 5 hours ago, naraku360 said: Bitch, please. I've changed minds in Youtube comments. You haven’t changed a fuckin thing except your dress foh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 5 hours ago, naraku360 said: Oh, I'm aware. I just mean that a lot of people are insincere in holding that belief, particularly within media spaces. I guess I was thinking more in terms of people with political agendas and the weight to swing it rather than the average person. Stop making excuses for antisemitism and Holocaust denial. You keep doing it. “Oh but it’s not the majority” “oh but it’s people with an agenda” really fuckin stop it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 49 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said: Stop making excuses for antisemitism and Holocaust denial. You keep doing it. “Oh but it’s not the majority” “oh but it’s people with an agenda” really fuckin stop it I don't know where I made excuses for antisemitism or where you got that I "keep doing it." Like, what are you talking about? I don't think people like Tucker Carlson or Candace Owens are sincere in their holocaust denialism. Nothing in that statement makes them less dangerous, nor is it denying the rise of antisemitism. It's literally giving an example of how we got to the rise in antisemitism, not a rejection of the premise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 19 minutes ago, naraku360 said: I don't know where I made excuses for antisemitism or where you got that I "keep doing it." Like, what are you talking about? I don't think people like Tucker Carlson or Candace Owens are sincere in their holocaust denialism. Nothing in that statement makes them less dangerous, nor is it denying the rise of antisemitism. It's literally giving an example of how we got to the rise in antisemitism, not a rejection of the premise. Sounds to me like you’re minimizing the amount of people who actually are antisemitic. Their sincerity or lack there of is irrelevant when it creates plenty of people believing that bullshit nonsense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 6 hours ago, naraku360 said: There are nazis who hide behind holocaust denial as a way to push approval without accepting responsibility for their views. I don't think there are many sincere holocaust deniers, and I would question the sincerity of anyone denying Oct. 7 being Hamas' doing. I'm not sure there is anything that can be done. It's a war of information, so education and media are pretty much what we have, and neither are fast or reliable methods. I think there probably are quite a few sincere holocaust deniers, if only because psychosis makes denial possible without altering the core bigotry. It’s important to remember that antisemitism is like any other form of racism: it’s not primarily an overt bias - it expresses itself in biased framing of mundane or readily observable behavior. When an antisemite experiences psychosis, they can fully believe that the genocide of Jewish people is a lie without first having an irrational hate for them. That’s because the underlying attitude that Jews are angry and overreact is readily portrayed through the narrow prism of journalism, without any express commentary, and can be rationalized. Bigotry always disguises itself respectability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 17 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said: Sounds to me like you’re minimizing the amount of people who actually are antisemitic. Their sincerity or lack there of is irrelevant when it creates plenty of people believing that bullshit nonsense. I was responding to MD and was on a different thought process. I was clarifying what I'd been referring to. We were just talking about different things. I was talking about the causes, she was talking result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarus27k Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 The rules of engagement for protests is a niche topic. I've attended a few protests and always known you should stay in public areas. You can break into private property as a form of protest but you'll be arrested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 The Rafah operation has started, and the IDF now controls the Rafah crossing with Egypt. This follows the warnings sent to civilians to evacuate the area because an operation was about to take place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilgar Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 13 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: The Rafah operation has started, and the IDF now controls the Rafah crossing with Egypt. This follows the warnings sent to civilians to evacuate the area because an operation was about to take place. Where the fuck were the civilians supposed to go asshole? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixman124 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 22 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said: The Rafah operation has started, and the IDF now controls the Rafah crossing with Egypt. This follows the warnings sent to civilians to evacuate the area because an operation was about to take place. Seems that the civilians who weren't able to evacuate at this point are going to be considered acceptable casualties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 On 5/7/2024 at 9:49 AM, Master-Debater131 said: The Rafah operation has started, and the IDF now controls the Rafah crossing with Egypt. This follows the warnings sent to civilians to evacuate the area because an operation was about to take place. They only gave them a couple of hours to evacuate. Nowhere near enough time. Israel is dangerously close to pissing off Egypt and destroying the peace they shared for 40 years 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 3 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said: They only gave them a couple of hours to evacuate. Nowhere near enough time. Israel is dangerously close to pissing off Egypt and destroying the peace they shared for 40 years Israel has been saying for weeks that they were going to go into Rafah. They've set up refugee camps and told people to go there. Theyve dropped leaflets showing where the safe zones are and texted everyone saying its time to go. Egypt has also been told this was coming, and Israel has worked with Egypt on plans for this. None of this should be a surprise at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 6 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: Israel has been saying for weeks that they were going to go into Rafah. They've set up refugee camps and told people to go there. Theyve dropped leaflets showing where the safe zones are and texted everyone saying its time to go. Egypt has also been told this was coming, and Israel has worked with Egypt on plans for this. None of this should be a surprise at this point. It’s a fuckin surprise because Israel’s government wrote the cease fire agreement that they declined once Hamas said “ok” and where were they to go? Israel is committing war crimes. They deliberately sniper women and children trying to get to hospitals. There are mass graves. The UN investigated and found a grave with 390 bodies. Some with signs of torture and summary executions. Some bodies were buried alive. Netanyahu and whoever else controls this should be in fuckin prison but the US is too busy threatening the ICC with sanctions and banning them from the US to gaf about these crimes. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Holocaust Remembrance Day and no one mentioned the crimes being carried out by Israel. “Never forget” unless you’re Palestinian, I guess. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 Speaking of Holocaust Remembrance Day 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 13 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: Speaking of Holocaust Remembrance Day So people wanting genocidal acts to stop in Gaza shouldn’t stand in front of an event calling for “never again” and the remembrance of one of the worst genocides in history? I don’t hear them blaming Jewish people for anything or accusing them of committing horrific acts. Imo it makes sense for them to be there so long as they aren’t chanting “intifada” that would be antisemitic because it would be blaming all Jews for the horrors Israel is committing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 Equating the war in Gaza to the Holocaust is absolutely laughable on its face. And calling it a "genocide" is just beyond ignorant of all historic and current fact. It makes for great slogans and catchy chants, but its just devoid of a basis in reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilgar Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 49 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: Equating the war in Gaza to the Holocaust is absolutely laughable on its face. And calling it a "genocide" is just beyond ignorant of all historic and current fact. It makes for great slogans and catchy chants, but its just devoid of a basis in reality. We get it md, you don't see Palestinians as human. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 53 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: Equating the war in Gaza to the Holocaust is absolutely laughable on its face. Why? Because the IDF isn't first rounding up civilians and putting them in camps before mass executing them? Look, the problem with the Holocaust (and I mean that in our own understanding of humanity) is that we focus on the veneer of respectability the Nazis put on these murder factories. Hitler didn't create those camps specifically to torture Jews, he (and Himler) did it because that was the most expedient way to the ultimate goal of eliminating a "pest" out of sight from the rest of the world. To this day, there are families that don't know what happened to their loved ones even though it's understood they were murdered. This creates something of a buffer between the specific atrocities of the Nazis and the broad, pervasive antisemitism that pervaded all of Europe from the late Roman through nineteenth century Russia, and it's a specific way Europeans and Americans disassociate themselves from similar behavior. Comparing Gaza to the Holocaust isn't about comparing tactics or even intent, it's about comparing the dehumanization process that leads to these atrocities. It's really easy for a white person like you to see the Holocaust and compartmentalize it as a case study on how hate can lead to horror. Meanwhile, you're not acknowledging that little acts you see around you contributed to that hate and are doing so even today. If you did, then you would see the parallels - simple explanations like "Hamas has taken over the good Palestinians," or "There are going to be collateral deaths if we want to be safe," - in similar rationals that existed in Germany well before Hitler came to power. The process of dehumanization is paved with such acts, like treating people as pawns in a larger esoteric war on ideology. It also presages other acts of atrocity by terrorists, using that dehumanization as justification to dehumanize their victims. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said: Equating the war in Gaza to the Holocaust is absolutely laughable on its face. And calling it a "genocide" is just beyond ignorant of all historic and current fact. It makes for great slogans and catchy chants, but its just devoid of a basis in reality. Well maybe Netanyahu should stop mass relocating people and engaging in collective responsibility. Then the comparisons couldn’t be made. The mass grave thing is also a horrific look. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 MD should read Animorphs. Everyone should read Animorphs. It's relevant to the philosophy discourse. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 11 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said: Well maybe Netanyahu should stop mass relocating people and engaging in collective responsibility. Then the comparisons couldn’t be made. The mass grave thing is also a horrific look. You literally just complained about Israel not giving people enough time to evacuate, and now are saying they are engaging in mass relocation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, Master-Debater131 said: And calling it a "genocide" is just beyond ignorant of all historic and current fact. What do you think people mean when they call it a genocide? What actions has Israel taken that could be viewed as genocidal? I'm asking this seriously since, despite personally questioning your motives, I would like to believe you've put some thought into the criticisms people have had on your commentary. If you haven't, that's unfortunate and very sad. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 9 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: You literally just complained about Israel not giving people enough time to evacuate, and now are saying they are engaging in mass relocation. At least once, Israel ordered an evacuation and promptly bombed the people where they evacuated to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 11 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: You literally just complained about Israel not giving people enough time to evacuate, and now are saying they are engaging in mass relocation. Hell, they bombed humanitarian convoys that were nowhere near the combat zone. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 20 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: You literally just complained about Israel not giving people enough time to evacuate, and now are saying they are engaging in mass relocation. Don’t be fuckin obtuse you know damn well Israel bombed safe roads and then bombed where they instructed Palestinians to go. You know damn well they are just trying to push them all into Egypt. And yes MD mass relocation is one of the stages of genocide 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/ Israel meets at least 3 stages 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Dehumanization ✅ Propaganda ✅ Classification ✅ Discrimination ✅ Denial ✅ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 6 minutes ago, naraku360 said: What do you think people mean when they call it a genocide? What actions has Israel taken that could be viewed as genocidal? I'm asking this seriously since, despite personally questioning your motives, I would like to believe you've put some thought into the criticisms people have had on your commentary. If you haven't, that's unfortunate and very sad. Genocide, by its very definition, is the deliberate killing of an ethnic people or nation with the express purpose of destroying that nation or ethnic group. WW2 saw multiple Genocides against multiple peoples in Europe and the Pacific. Turkey against Armenians, Genocide. Turkey, and many others, against the Kurdish people is Genocide. We've seen multiple Genocides in Africa over the last 20 years as well. Whats happening in Gaza is not a genocide. It is a war against a hostile enemy being waged by a nation that was attacked. Israel notifies civilians of the places they are going to attack, they send in aid and help control aid into Gaza even when those aid stations come under attack by Hamas. They have historically refused to attack known Hamas C&C centers because of the risk of civilian casualties. They go to lengths that no other nation on Earth goes to to try and protect civilians, and then they are still told it isn't enough. What is happening is unfortunate, but it doesnt even come close to the level of a Genocide. Its the end result of a war against a group of people who purposefully try and increase civilian causalities for the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 3 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: Israel notifies civilians of the places they are going to attack, they send in aid and help control aid into Gaza even when those aid stations come under attack by Hamas. They have historically refused to attack known Hamas C&C centers because of the risk of civilian casualties. They go to lengths that no other nation on Earth goes to to try and protect civilians, and then they are still told it isn't enough. You're going to need to cite sources on these claims. None of that sounds like anything Israel themselves have actually claimed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 So careful 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Those bodies look kinda small but it’s hard to tell size in photos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 So much care and concern 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Real human beings suffering. Used by Hamas. Villainized by the Israeli government. We kind of forget all this from the safety of our homes. Hamas attacked Israel and committed abhorrent acts in the process but still there is no excuse to do this. That child wasn’t Hamas 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gun Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 I don't think people should be protesting outside of Auschwitz. I think that should be a no-go area. But I understand why they're doing it. Netanyahu is a war criminal. In any sane world, he and his inner circle would be dragged in front of The Hague for what they're doing, right along with the leadership of Hamas. Let them all rot in hell together. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixman124 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Biden has stated that if Israel proceeds with the Rafah offensive, the US will not provide some munitions specifically high payload munitions - the ones used to level cities indiscriminately. If even Biden is started to halt weapons shipments, one of the biggest pro-Zionist proponents in the US, you have a fucking problem. Or I dunno he's also part of Hamas. That seems to be the logic for anyone not supporting the continued mass murder of innocents with 100% dedication 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discolé monade Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 3 hours ago, 1pooh4u said: Those bodies look kinda small but it’s hard to tell size in photos those are babies.those are children of gaza. those are the enemy of the great nation of israel 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixman124 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 4 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said: Genocide, by its very definition, is the deliberate killing of an ethnic people or nation with the express purpose of destroying that nation or ethnic group. Nuff said 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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