1pooh4u Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 7 minutes ago, scoobdog said: I don't think that's r.... ... Eh, close enough. No, es correcto. Cállate, Scoob. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 (edited) But on a serious note it’s a non issue because Biden doesn’t have Parkinson’s https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Health-Summary-2.28.pdf Edited July 9 by 1pooh4u ETA Medical Report 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katt_goddess Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 The real problem with all these hand-wringing reports of Biden's age and all the possible infirmaries that fill each and every news hour is that there is no reporting whatsoever on all the shit that happened during the previous administration, no hammering on any of the many active instances of poor behavior and repeated threats of violence by both Dumpster and his sycophants both before and during the current administration, CNN hasn't even bothered to go after anything set in that abhorrent Project 2025 shit, nothing about Dumpster's own inability to actually answer any questions without veering off into 'vengeance is mine' spurge territory. It is very interesting to see the very same types of people who couldn't say a single good thing about the so-called 'mainstream media' before are suddenly so horny for those same media outlets and for all of the reasons mentioned above. All this 'Harris could beat Drumpf' is fine - she's still the VP and would become the acting President if anything does happen to Biden. It's not a matter of voting between a mummy and Hitler, it's a matter of voting between a continued democracy and a confirmed Christofascist dictatorship. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpgamer Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 As much as I'm on board with the discussions and criticisms and valid concerns... I do seriously hate how the discussion and 100% of the media presence is focused solely on Biden's fitness, with a complete lack of context or acknowledgement that Donald "can't even stay awake during his own court hearings" Trump ain't doing much better. Do we maybe need to circle back to his inability to walk down a ramp, or drink a bottle of water? Despite the age/mental concerns, Biden does have a salient point, that at least he's capable of telling the truth (once you get through the mumbling and brain fog......). It's a damn shame that this is dominating the landscape, allowing Trump to coast on through without getting constantly hammered for every lie he told. But, I think what really really sucks the most for the people, the party, the supporters, is that we were presented with Biden as the winning move when democracy was at stake. That is, frankly, one of the key motivators for dems in recent elections. It's this or maga authoritarianism. And now, with democracy no less at stake, the party is hell-bound to stick with a growing risk, rather than doing anything and everything in their power to present the clearly better option.. it feels just shy of saying there is no democracy anymore anyway. You don't get any choices, suck it up. We don't need to try to earn your vote, because we already know you're not going to vote for Trump. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discolé monade Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 On 6/30/2024 at 11:15 PM, discolé monade said: going according to plan, it would seem? What is Project 2025 And Why Is It Alarming? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katt_goddess Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 First off, any pinhead that smirks at me while claiming everything will be fine if I don't fight back is going to leave my presence missing a jaw and a large part of their pelvis. Secondly, how about skipping this and just going Weird Al for president instead. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 17 minutes ago, katt_goddess said: First off, any pinhead that smirks at me while claiming everything will be fine if I don't fight back is going to leave my presence missing a jaw and a large part of their pelvis. Secondly, how about skipping this and just going Weird Al for president instead. I do appreciate Weird Al getting upset that this election is too weird. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 1 hour ago, katt_goddess said: and a large part of their pelvis which part 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 The NY Times is apparently reporting Pelosi is telling Biden to drop out, and urging him to move quickly. This is as most polls show that at the state and local levels Democrats are again overperforming against their GOP Counterparts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Not just the NYT, WSJ just reported the same thing, and their reporting is saying that Pelosi is asking for Dems to hold off until after the NATO summit and then try and convince Biden to drop out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Its not a good sign for Biden when the first interviewer he interacted with in a long time is saying he cant serve 4 more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insipid Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) Maybe a better idea at this point is to choose someone to replace Kamala Harris . . . cause good God, do I not want her to become president if something happens to Biden. Edited July 10 by Insipid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 What an absolutely wild timeline we are in. Im convinced that the moment that changed things for Trump was when Biden insulted his golf game at the debate. Just like how Obama making fun of Trump at the correspondents dinner convinced him to run in the first place, Biden made it personal. Trump has been remarkably restrained since the debate while Democrats are in pure chaos. Previous versions of Trump would do anything he can to step on his own feet and bring media attention back to him, but not now. Hes staying relatively quiet while Democrats are in open revolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 This is the problem that Biden is facing. National polling is showing Trump with a lead, and it gets worse at state level where things really matter. If Trump picks up the 3 states that are moving in his direction, and holds his 2020 states, then he just needs to find 2 EVs somewhere to win. Any combination of PA, VA, MI, WI, MN, or NH gets him over 270, and back in the White House. Trump currently leads in all of those states except MN, VA and NH according to RCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) Yeah, this is a clear issue with the candidate. Not to mention many people are pointing out that getting rid of Joe would convince more people Project 2025 is an existential crisis. Most of Hollywood seems to have joined the “drop out” camp with George Clooney penning an open letter and pretty much all the late night hosts asking as well. Edited July 10 by Jman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 The current big deadline is the virtual convention they're doing to placate Ohio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 9 minutes ago, Raptorpat said: The current big deadline is the virtual convention they're doing to placate Ohio When is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Later this month, not sure the date. I think Ohio ended up passing a bill to fix the issue but the Dems pursued the virtual roll call anyways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 29 minutes ago, Jman said: Yeah, this is a clear issue with the candidate. Not to mention many people are pointing out that getting rid of Joe would convince more people Project 2025 is an existential crisis. See, this is part of the fundamental problem with current Democratic messaging about this election. We are being told that democracy is at stake, that our entire country might collapse, that Trump is literally Hitler, and if Democrats dont win it will be the last election ever. A lot of this messaging is recycled from past elections, but thats besides the point. The point is we are being told all these things, yet their actions arent matching the words. Hell, even Biden said he would be OK if he lost as long as he knows he gave it his all. Thats not the action of a man who thinks that Literally Hitler is one step away from the White House. If Democrats truly believed their rhetoric they would stop at no ends to boot Biden from the race and find someone younger, more energetic, and with a better chance of winning. Their rhetoric is great for energizing the base and for fundraising, but its just rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 15 minutes ago, Raptorpat said: The current big deadline is the virtual convention they're doing to placate Ohio So what happens if they hold this convention, nominate Biden, then Biden has to drop out? Legitimately asking here. Does it mean that places like Ohio put Biden on the ballot, even if he is not the nominee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: See, this is part of the fundamental problem with current Democratic messaging about this election. We are being told that democracy is at stake, that our entire country might collapse, that Trump is literally Hitler, and if Democrats dont win it will be the last election ever. A lot of this messaging is recycled from past elections, but thats besides the point. The point is we are being told all these things, yet their actions arent matching the words. Hell, even Biden said he would be OK if he lost as long as he knows he gave it his all. Thats not the action of a man who thinks that Literally Hitler is one step away from the White House. If Democrats truly believed their rhetoric they would stop at no ends to boot Biden from the race and find someone younger, more energetic, and with a better chance of winning. Their rhetoric is great for energizing the base and for fundraising, but its just rhetoric. I have to concur. Dropping him does convince people all hands are on deck which they should be, Project 2025 is a blueprint for a fascist society. The issue of course is that even if they win, Project 2025 becomes Project 2029, Project 2033, etc. The axe is raised. Edited July 10 by Jman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 9 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said: So what happens if they hold this convention, nominate Biden, then Biden has to drop out? I don't know all the processes, but if it's after the convention the DNC picks a successor candidate. Presumably Harris but not a guarantee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Debater131 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 9 minutes ago, Raptorpat said: I don't know all the processes, but if it's after the convention the DNC picks a successor candidate. Presumably Harris but not a guarantee. This feels like an area where some absolutely crazy stuff could happen, and each state will handle it differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I think the closest example is Eagleton getting replaced on the VP line after the convention in 1972. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 2 hours ago, Insipid said: Maybe a better idea at this point is to choose someone to replace Kamala Harris . . . cause good God, do I not want her to become president if something happens to Biden. What about Kamala Harris doesn't work for you? In all likelihood she'd be the candidate if Biden drops out anyways because there are no other candidates with a national profile that could possibly step in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belize Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 In all honesty, my position on the Biden controversy is: Incumbent presidents win reelection. The only time they lose is when there is economic recession. Pushing Biden out of the race would take that advantage away in favor of an inner party fight four months before the election and certain defeat in November. Pushing Biden out would be a bunch of panicked Democrats orchestrating their own defeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belize Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Giving up the incumbency advantage, fighting over a new nominee and trying to start a new campaign: That's one way to solve your problem of Biden being down 3 points in the polls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insipid Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 1 hour ago, scoobdog said: What about Kamala Harris doesn't work for you? In all likelihood she'd be the candidate if Biden drops out anyways because there are no other candidates with a national profile that could possibly step in. I really don't see her beating Trump if it came to that. I'll admit I only know a bit about her time as a prosecutor that left me with a bad taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 7 minutes ago, Insipid said: I really don't see her beating Trump if it came to that. I'll admit I only know a bit about her time as a prosecutor that left me with a bad taste. That's the general consensus. I voted her into the Senate, and I don't even know much about her as a politician other than there was purportedly an unofficial agreement between her an Newsome about staying out of each other's lane when he was looking at his national prospects when running for governor. True or not, the implication is that the party was trying to boost her national prospects early on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 33 minutes ago, Belize said: In all honesty, my position on the Biden controversy is: Incumbent presidents win reelection. The only time they lose is when there is economic recession. Devil's Advocate: before even getting to the question of age/competency, he's been underwater since the Afghanistan pullout and consistently hammered on inflation regardless of whether either is his fault, and as the electoral baseline he only won in 2020 by about 45k votes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 30 minutes ago, Belize said: Giving up the incumbency advantage, fighting over a new nominee and trying to start a new campaign: That's one way to solve your problem of Biden being down 3 points in the polls. This isn't a usual campaign, though. He's up against an equally suspect old man who hasn't run anything close to a coherent campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belize Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 9 minutes ago, Raptorpat said: Devil's Advocate: before even getting to the question of age/competency, he's been underwater since the Afghanistan pullout and consistently hammered on inflation regardless of whether either is his fault, and as the electoral baseline he only won in 2020 by about 45k votes. A potential answer: There are degrees of approval and disapproval of presidents. Biden does well in horserace polling against his opponent *among those who only slightly approve and slightly disapprove of him*. That's illustrated by the 90 and 3 in his row. So there's a lot of people who tell pollsters they disapprove of Biden, but will vote for him anyway. And that's unusual when compared to the previous three presidents. The idea of disapprovers voting for the president anyway is novel. I'm still trying to figure out what all that means, but it leads me to believe that job approval/disapproval as a measure for reelection outcome is different now than it was in previous presidential reelections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belize Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 It also raises the possibility that people who *slightly disapprove* of Biden are largely voters who voted for Biden in 2020. And can be won back, especially if the alternative is Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 IF the election is purely a referendum on Trump, which as of the past two weeks it hasn't been. And it can't be if Biden cannot dispell the optics. That's my general thought process right now. It's not really just a question of arguing "yeah you're moderately disappointed in him but at least he is competent and not a fascist" anymore. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpgamer Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I do think, unfortunately, there are plenty of voters that are rightfully disappointed in Biden and his administration, that, due to our fucked up two party system, will choose Trump, and frankly, I couldn't blame them. Dems have had years of puffed up rhetoric and burning idealism that's really great at motivating in the moment.. but when they fail to deliver on those motivators, what's a wishy-washy voter to do but vote for the side that will actually get their shit done? Sure, their "shit" is dismantling democracy... but at least they actually stand to accomplish their goals? Dems have been running on a typical "Yes we can" attitude to get elected, at which point they clarify "but that's hard work and the status quo is easier." It's all fucked any way you slice it, and it sucks to be in this position of seeing that it's all fucked, but not really seeing a clear path to unfucking ourselves. Best we can do is vote for whether we want lubed up first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptorpat Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I don't think there's a lot of vote flipping between the two so much as people will just not show up, or vote third party. I hate to make the comparison, but like the Roy Moore or Todd Akin races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Democrats need to focus on and get the message out on every single lie Trump told during the debate. They need to somehow convince the media to get in depth about Project 2025. What it is. What it means, all of it. They then need to get in depth about Trump’s obvious lie about not knowing nothing about it or who is involved with it. They need to show that either Trump is lying or he doesn’t remember who works for him. Some if not all the people involved in Project 2025 work or have worked for Trump. Biden is not doing a good job at dispelling the myth that he’s mentally unfit, or of putting Trump on the spot. He and his campaign should have Trump in defense mode at every turn but they don’t. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Rustling some jimmies with basic common sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 18 minutes ago, naraku360 said: Rustling some jimmies with basic common sense. Jon Stewart still got it 😆 the part where establishment democrats were complaining about the people and their concerns sounded so familiar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 “If the Nazis take over Europe at least both teams had fun” - FDR (according to J Stewart) 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belize Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 1 hour ago, 1pooh4u said: Democrats need to focus on and get the message out on every single lie Trump told during the debate. They need to somehow convince the media to get in depth about Project 2025. What it is. What it means, all of it. They then need to get in depth about Trump’s obvious lie about not knowing nothing about it or who is involved with it. They need to show that either Trump is lying or he doesn’t remember who works for him. Some if not all the people involved in Project 2025 work or have worked for Trump. Biden is not doing a good job at dispelling the myth that he’s mentally unfit, or of putting Trump on the spot. He and his campaign should have Trump in defense mode at every turn but they don’t. I think the campaign messaging on Project 2025 is surprisingly getting through all of the "Democrats in panic" news. That's the second thing I read about on social media after the Biden frenzy. There's also been one or two stories about legislative activity in Congress and the ongoing NATO summit, but that is overwhelmed by the first two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 31 minutes ago, Belize said: I think the campaign messaging on Project 2025 is surprisingly getting through all of the "Democrats in panic" news. That's the second thing I read about on social media after the Biden frenzy. There's also been one or two stories about legislative activity in Congress and the ongoing NATO summit, but that is overwhelmed by the first two. It needs to be more than just on social media and it needs to be the first thing. Not only that they should have been talking about it instead of waiting for half the country to be shocked by Biden’s poor debate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belize Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 One other surprising thing about the anti-Biden stuff among Democrats: people like Bernie Sanders are *supporting Biden*. The Congressional Black Caucus supports Biden. Relatively centrist Democrats like Jon Tester and Mark Warner are the ones pushing strongly for Biden to go. I worry that the anti-Biden panic is actually coming from people who thought "electable" candidates such as Kerry and Clinton would win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Also I’m seeing pretty much nothing about project 2025 on mainstream media. It’s all from other sources and none from the Biden camp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belize Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 (edited) What if: the Democrats saying Biden needs to go are the same Democrats who have no idea what electability is or how to achieve it. Edited July 10 by Belize 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 First senate democrat asked Biden to quietly fuck off. A senator from Vermont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 11 minutes ago, Belize said: What if: the Democrats saying Biden needs to go are the same Democrats who have no idea what electability is or how to achieve it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belize Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katt_goddess Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 23 hours ago, Raptorpat said: which part The kick starts at the front and comes out the back. They'll be lucky to have a horseshoe shaped pelvis left. And I'll probably need a new pair of shoes. Also, Biden saying he'll accept a loss is him pointing out yet another difference in how he as a President will act - Drumpf has refused to say he'll accept anything other than a win and the last time he lost, he wound up a mob of morons to storm the Capital. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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