Zaslav writes off Final Space for taxes, show will disappear from everything once international licenses expire

[Jman]

 

 

Zaslav continues his war on animation, but Toonami is thankfully unaffected.

[Daos]

Remember Symbionic Titan?

Once a show is written off for tax purposes it's almost impossible to revive. The company would basically have to refile taxes for that year and pay a huge chunk of cash.

It's as close to Permadeath as any IP can get. 

Did anyone actually like Final Space? I couldn't get into it.

[MasqueradeOverture]

The show was just monologues every 3 minutes about "feeweengs" so personally I won't miss it.

BUT this is further proof Zaslav is a threat to the media landscape and the creation of art versus statistical "content."

[PokeNirvash]

Everything except the pirate sites. Deny their existence all you want, they're still there.

[matrixman124]

[Jman]

8 hours ago, MasqueradeOverture said:

The show was just monologues every 3 minutes about "feeweengs" so personally I won't miss it.

BUT this is further proof Zaslav is a threat to the media landscape and the creation of art versus statistical "content."

On the one hand, it is definitely an example of the “I’m making this as a form of self therapy” genre that seems to have defined Western animation the last 6-8 years or so.

On the other hand, Zaslav’s merciless almost suggests a personal beef with Western animation.  Obviously that isn’t the case but still.

[Top Gun]

How is "writing off" a piece of entertainment even a thing? Like, what the fuck does that actually mean from an objective standpoint?

[matrixman124]

8 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

How is "writing off" a piece of entertainment even a thing? Like, what the fuck does that actually mean from an objective standpoint?

It makes sense if the goal is to maximize profits and not make art. We are coming to a great reckoning now that the big streaming services think they can do whatever they want without consequences as long as it benefits their shareholders and only their shareholders.

[korosu]

lol

[Jman]

5 hours ago, Top Gun said:

How is "writing off" a piece of entertainment even a thing? Like, what the fuck does that actually mean from an objective standpoint?

It's essentially the tax equivalent of an "at least you tried" award.  Since a production requires hours, investment, and the employment of individuals, declaring it a failure allows the company to recoup some of the investment on the logic that the production did keep people employed and put money into the economy.  Therefore, the company and its investors will not be so hesitant to do it again fearing a flop because there is some incentive to at least try.

[matrixman124]

5 minutes ago, Jman said:

It's essentially the tax equivalent of an "at least you tried" award.  Since a production requires hours, investment, and the employment of individuals, declaring it a failure allows the company to recoup some of the investment on the logic that the production did keep people employed and put money into the economy.  Therefore, the company and its investors will not be so hesitant to do it again fearing a flop because there is some incentive to at least try.

That's what it should be for. But this is more like exploiting a loophole

[katt_goddess]

18 hours ago, Daos said:

Remember Symbionic Titan?

Once a show is written off for tax purposes it's almost impossible to revive. The company would basically have to refile taxes for that year and pay a huge chunk of cash.

It's as close to Permadeath as any IP can get. 

Did anyone actually like Final Space? I couldn't get into it.

I thought it had its moments, the script was very serial in nature, and the now apparently final season ended on a cliffhanger that should have easily allowed for at least another season if not two. 

I do not care for these permadeathes. It's a cheat for money, kills off content that could at least by played for filler somewhere, and honestly, if I was a creator with a show like 'Final Space' ready for marketing, things like this would make me less likely to willingly work with such a company. They are not just killing off content, they are making it unlikely that good creators will want to work with them unless the conditions are super good and very long term for said creator. 

[matrixman124]

Yeah it's the equivalent of burning down the fields and salting the earth.

[Sketch]

Sounds like an episode of season 3 cost around 900,000. That is quite a bit of money for a show that got decent ratings at best, almost 12 million dollars.

I really think IPs should be given to their creator when these tax write offs happen and the media should become public domain instead of living in limbo unless the company pays the government to make use of the IP again.

I bought seasons 1 and 2 while I still could but it was too late for season 3, which I have no qualms with pirating. I managed to get the entirety of ThunderCats Roar for 5 bucks before it was pulled from Amazon, so that’s something I guess.

[Daos]

32 minutes ago, katt_goddess said:

I thought it had its moments, the script was very serial in nature, and the now apparently final season ended on a cliffhanger that should have easily allowed for at least another season if not two. 

I do not care for these permadeathes. It's a cheat for money, kills off content that could at least by played for filler somewhere, and honestly, if I was a creator with a show like 'Final Space' ready for marketing, things like this would make me less likely to willingly work with such a company. They are not just killing off content, they are making it unlikely that good creators will want to work with them unless the conditions are super good and very long term for said creator. 

I only saw a few episodes but I felt like it didn't know whether it wanted to be a comedy or a serious drama.

[Jman]

1 minute ago, Daos said:

I only saw a few episodes but I felt like it didn't know whether it wanted to be a comedy or a serious drama.

By Rogers' own admission, he had to make it a comedy at first although he didn't want to, because pitching a dramatic  original cartoon when you're not Japanese will still have most executives look at you like you have smoking turds in your mouth.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Jman

[Top Gun]

57 minutes ago, Jman said:

It's essentially the tax equivalent of an "at least you tried" award.  Since a production requires hours, investment, and the employment of individuals, declaring it a failure allows the company to recoup some of the investment on the logic that the production did keep people employed and put money into the economy.  Therefore, the company and its investors will not be so hesitant to do it again fearing a flop because there is some incentive to at least try.

Ah, the foul deepest pits of end-stage capitalism at work.

And I actually jumped through a few hoops to import an Australian DVD release of the entirety of Symbionic Titan as a small middle finger to the powers that be.

[Daos]

Megas  XLR was also sentenced to death many years ago if anyone remembers that.

[Sketch]

1 hour ago, Daos said:

Megas  XLR was also sentenced to death many years ago if anyone remembers that.

How could I ever forget? 😞

[Daos]

1 hour ago, Jman said:

By Rogers' own admission, he had to make it a comedy at first although he didn't want to, because pitching a dramatic  original cartoon when you're not Japanese will still have most executives look at you like you have smoking turds in your mouth.

I would not have gone with that art style for a show that was trying to have serious plots and drama.

[katt_goddess]

20 hours ago, Daos said:

I only saw a few episodes but I felt like it didn't know whether it wanted to be a comedy or a serious drama.

Drama with comedy interspersed to relieve the tension. That's why you end up with say an episode with a sequence where mainly the males of the series are having a literal pissing contest while other episodes deal with feelings of loss, abandonment, betrayal and depression. 

As Jman already pointed out, the type of animation involved and being a Western production makes it hard to market as a pure drama to the people who make the decision while still apparently never actually watching anything. And I'm guessing that the animation used was done to make things more affordable in the long run while appealing to a wider audience that would include the Family Guy / Simpsons set. Too much detail and the price starts to go up by the line after all. 

[Daos]

7 hours ago, katt_goddess said:

Drama with comedy interspersed to relieve the tension. That's why you end up with say an episode with a sequence where mainly the males of the series are having a literal pissing contest while other episodes deal with feelings of loss, abandonment, betrayal and depression. 

As Jman already pointed out, the type of animation involved and being a Western production makes it hard to market as a pure drama to the people who make the decision while still apparently never actually watching anything. And I'm guessing that the animation used was done to make things more affordable in the long run while appealing to a wider audience that would include the Family Guy / Simpsons set. Too much detail and the price starts to go up by the line after all. 

They have an actual pissing contest? Uhhh yeah you can't do that in a show if you want it be taken seriously. Sounds like there was a lot of outside interference.

[Jman]

Seeing people go “well, at least Roar is erased”.

[EmpressAngel]

5 hours ago, Jman said:

Seeing people go “well, at least Roar is erased”.

I hate this take because even a bad show has value. It represents years of work on the creators' part, and now they have nothing to show for it. Even if it sucked (and I wouldn't know because why the fuck would I care about a cartoon made for small children based on a 40-year old IP), dozens of people still put their time and effort into it and it's shitty that it's basically being sent to the shadow realm never to be seen again.

[matrixman124]

11 minutes ago, EmpressAngel said:

I hate this take because even a bad show has value. It represents years of work on the creators' part, and now they have nothing to show for it. Even if it sucked (and I wouldn't know because why the fuck would I care about a cartoon made for small children based on a 40-year old IP), dozens of people still put their time and effort into it and it's shitty that it's basically being sent to the shadow realm never to be seen again.

Yeah all creative work should have value. The blatant disregard for art here is just appalling, expected at this point from the megacorps, but appalling.

[OwlChemist81]

X-Posted to Twitter:

All 3 of the @Crunchyroll co-productions:
#FenaPiratePrincess;
#BladeRunnerBlackLotus; and #ShenmueTheAnimation have already disappeared from @adultswim app's streams. Some interesting things remain: episodes of #BlackClover; ALL of #FLCL; and even some of #ThePromisedNeverland!

Edited September 27, 2022 by OwlChemist81

[Jman]

6 minutes ago, OwlChemist81 said:

X-Posted to Twitter:

All 3 of the @Crunchyroll co-productions:
#FenaPiratePrincess;
#BladeRunnerBlackLotus; and #ShenmueTheAnimation have already disappeared from @adultswim app's streams. Some interesting things remain: episodes of #BlackClover; ALL of #FLCL; and even some of #ThePromisedNeverland!

Yeah we’re definitely never seeing a S2 of Shenmue.

[katt_goddess]

17 hours ago, Daos said:

They have an actual pissing contest? Uhhh yeah you can't do that in a show if you want it be taken seriously. Sounds like there was a lot of outside interference.

It was a reclaiming territory kind of thing.

Watch it while you can

 

[PokeNirvash]

1 hour ago, OwlChemist81 said:

All 3 of the @Crunchyroll co-productions: #FenaPiratePrincess; #BladeRunnerBlackLotus; and #ShenmueTheAnimation have already disappeared from @adultswim app's streams.

I'm gonna guess that's the reason they pulled Black Lotus mid-rerun.

Edited September 27, 2022 by PokeNirvash

[Daos]

2 hours ago, katt_goddess said:

It was a reclaiming territory kind of thing.

Watch it while you can

 

Uh.. did they just piss in that girls face? 

It would be really hard to recover from this and ever be taken seriously.

[katt_goddess]

23 hours ago, Daos said:

Uh.. did they just piss in that girls face? 

It would be really hard to recover from this and ever be taken seriously.

Everyone got pissed on that participated.   She was going to be their Queen, there's a price.

To be fair, this was a comedic break between serious loss leading to character deaths as the series progressed. 

[matrixman124]

Context!

[Sketch]

The color of that urine indicates dehydration. That was the piss equivalent to Family Guy’s barf scene but a whole lot less funny to me. Just really uncomfortable.

[Daos]

7 minutes ago, Sketch said:

The color of that urine indicates dehydration. That was the piss equivalent to Family Guy’s barf scene but a whole lot less funny to me. Just really uncomfortable.

Don't worry baby, the bad show can't hurt you any more. It has been banished to the shadow realm.

[Daos]

57 minutes ago, katt_goddess said:

Everyone got pissed on that participated.   She was going to be their Queen, there's a price.

To be fair, this was a comedic break between serious loss leading to character deaths as the series progressed. 

Welllllll..... see there's a fine line though. You can have moments of humor and levity in between serious moments. Even a super serious movie like Lord of the Rings has quite a few moments like this. You can have Gimli take a pratfall off his horse for laughs without turning his entire character and the movie into a joke. You can't have Gimli like... fucking his horse or pissing in Aragorn's face without really damaging the serious tone of the movie.

I kinda feel like Final Space pissed on that fine line there, and probably many other times =P

[Sketch]

16 minutes ago, Daos said:

Don't worry baby, the bad show can't hurt you any more. It has been banished to the shadow realm.

I bought it on Amazon video and Bluray, albeit before seeing that scene.

[Blatch]

On 9/27/2022 at 6:57 PM, PokeNirvash said:

I'm gonna guess that's the reason they pulled Black Lotus mid-rerun.

And that deals a blow to my hopes of Made in Abyss S2. This was probably just a happy coincidence that allows them to finish the refund without having to expand the block for one night. Well see what the schedule is like on October 29, but at this point I'm thinking of skipping a potential Toonami run and getting it over with via HIDIVE.

Related point: these three shows being written off thins the rerun library for Toonami. Who knows what they'll put on in November? At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Lupin the 3rd, Part VI gets a rerun just because. Maybe they were savvy enough to write one into the contract for that show and others?

[Jman]

Blade Runner also has the added hassle of Amazon greenlighting a sequel.

[DangerMouse]

Wow....

[DangerMouse]

On 9/27/2022 at 6:57 PM, PokeNirvash said:

I'm gonna guess that's the reason they pulled Black Lotus mid-rerun.

Yeah

[katt_goddess]

23 hours ago, Daos said:

Welllllll..... see there's a fine line though. You can have moments of humor and levity in between serious moments. Even a super serious movie like Lord of the Rings has quite a few moments like this. You can have Gimli take a pratfall off his horse for laughs without turning his entire character and the movie into a joke. You can't have Gimli like... fucking his horse or pissing in Aragorn's face without really damaging the serious tone of the movie.

I kinda feel like Final Space pissed on that fine line there, and probably many other times =P

Ventrexians are cats and cats tend to pee on things to mark their territory. So that's the basic background on that - the Ventrexian way is the way of the cat and since they needed to reclaim the ship from Clarence [ the tiny creepy gnome in glasses ] for the season two quest for keys for a quantum prison cube, Cato peed on everything because that's how it goes sometimes. The others joining in was as mentioned a tension reliever between the more serious stuff that had happened prior [ Avocado and Quinn ] and all the stuff that was about to happen. 

Then again, I have a slightly biased almost frat-boy sense of humor sometimes. I still laugh myself sick over the Great Cornholio. It's just Beavis on sugar and it's repetitive but it's still hilarious. 

[Daos]

Yeah but Cornholio is stupid but funny, in a show where you never have to worry about Beavis saying

"Butthead... sometimes I feel like I'm wasting my life... maybe I...... maybe I can do better..."

[Jman]

Nah, they argue the merits of BTS -

 

 

[katt_goddess]

1 hour ago, Daos said:

Yeah but Cornholio is stupid but funny, in a show where you never have to worry about Beavis saying

"Butthead... sometimes I feel like I'm wasting my life... maybe I...... maybe I can do better..."

You might have just summarized 'Beavis and Butthead Do the Universe'...

Dun dun DUNNNNN!!!

*disclaimer, I haven't watched the movie yet. Pretty sure it's free somewhere at this point but I haven't had the time to hunt and watch it properly. 

[Daos]

16 hours ago, Jman said:

Nah, they argue the merits of BTS -

 

 

Yup, they still got it.