Should Anime Dub VA's be paid better?

[CountFrylock]

we all know VA's that do dub work for anime are typically paid peanuts and see far more money from something like a single mcdonalds commercial

than an entire season of a popular anime

but should that change? I Ask because it's become apparent that unless you really have nowhere else to go  just have a passion for anime or have A Larger role at the company(Such as many at Funimation)

there's little reason to hang around...shit even if you do enjoy anime a lot

that might not be enough to keep you in the line of anime dub work

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Jman]

When there’s more money to go around, the people who generate it should be entitled to some of the wealth.  Simple economics from an idealist perspective.

Given what anime is generating in profits, the answer is “yes.”

Edited August 12, 2021 by Jman

[CountFrylock]

16 minutes ago, Jman said:

When there’s more money to go around, the people who generate it should be entitled to some of the wealth.  Simple economics from an idealist perspective.

Given what anime is generating in profits, the answer is “yes.”

especially since the incident  where Tokoyami(MHA)'s Dub VA was dealing with the possibility of losing they're home since they weren't gonna appear in a commercial

that one commercial put them into panic mode....because they weren't making enough money doing they're job

it's really sad because we all know about The People Who Eventually Graduated From Anime and went onto bigger and better things(examples being troy baker and laura bailey)

where they now find themselves making far far far more money than they ever did dubbing anime and even if they had never ventured out into AAA Video games and American cartoons

chances are they wouldn't be getting paid any better working on anime dubs

 

[DBAss]

It's because Funi is non-/anti- union. Joining the voice actors union does go a long way. Problem with that though is I think almost all anime dubbing in the US is non-union work. Though I think that's not the case everywhere cause I have seen Aniplex dubs that do use big names like Troy or Laura. I know VAs are allowed to reprise characters they've done in the past, even if the work isn't union (that being the case for Laura for the new FB series, though since she is the MC maybe they paid her union rates)

In the American VA industry unless you do extra stuff like work as a director, or a script writer, or anything on the technical side, you're not gonna cut it as being just a voice actor. Apparently the way some make up for that is by being guests at a lot of conventions. I think during the Vic fiasco it was talked about how low VA's salaries are, them relying on conventions to supplement that, since they can easily make a couple thousands or so by appearing at a con.

[Real_AirCooledGirl]

Don't stop at paying the voice actors better. Have them seize the means of production, too.

[CountFrylock]

3 minutes ago, DBAss said:

It's because Funi is non-/anti- union. Joining the voice actors union does go a long way. Problem with that though is I think almost all anime dubbing in the US is non-union work. Though I think that's not the case everywhere cause I have seen Aniplex dubs that do use big names like Troy or Laura. I know VAs are allowed to reprise characters they've done in the past, even if the work isn't union (that being the case for Laura for the new FB series, though since she is the MC maybe they paid her union rates)

In the American VA industry unless you do extra stuff like work as a director, or a script writer, or anything on the technical side, you're not gonna cut it as being just a voice actor. Apparently the way some make up for that is by being guests at a lot of conventions. I think during the Vic fiasco it was talked about how low VA's salaries are, them relying on conventions to supplement that, since they can easily make a couple thousands or so by appearing at a con.

and the pandemic really made things harder on them due to conventions being shutdown

even now with some starting back up  there's not gonna be as much of a presence from major names as there was back in 2019(Pre-Covid 19)

 

[DBAss]

35 minutes ago, CountFrylock said:

and the pandemic really made things harder on them due to conventions being shutdown

even now with some starting back up  there's not gonna be as much of a presence from major names as there was back in 2019(Pre-Covid 19)

 

I feel like Covid is having results of higher demands for a lot of people in various industries to unionize, or at least demand better work conditions and compensation. The covid has definitely made a lot of people super billionaires. Bezos for example saw his net worth go up by around 80 billion or so after the corona. Companies like walmart and other ones also saw explosive stock increases. Even outside of those industries it does seem like across the board people are starting to make more demands of their employers.

The anime industry has also seen an explosion of profit due to people watching it more and subscribing to services for it since more of them are stuck at home now. I see anime VAs demanding better compensation because of that, and especially since conventions aren't a reliable gig right now.

I know for the longest time if you wanted to be a full time anime VA, you had to keep yourself busy and always seek out work. I think that was the case for ones like Johnny Yong Bosch and Michelle Ruff, they were full time anime voice actors, and would take on tons of roles to make that money.

[Chapinator_X]

Yes to the highest power. Unless you’re unionized, have ADR direction experience, or have moved onto video games, you’re dealing with a thankless profession with low pay and a fan base that either hates your guts or tries to have a parasocial relationship with you because you voiced a character they liked. 

[The1gairon]

5 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

we all know VA's that do dub work for anime are typically paid peanuts and see far more money from something like a single mcdonalds commercial

than an entire season of a popular anime

but should that change? I Ask because it's become apparent that unless you really have nowhere else to go  just have a passion for anime or have A Larger role at the company(Such as many at Funimation)

there's little reason to hang around...shit even if you do enjoy anime a lot

that might not be enough to keep you in the line of anime dub work

 

I think so. They spend a ton more time in the booth doing that than for commercial ads, or edutainment videos.

[Daos]

Should VA's be paid more? Impossible to know without knowing what a company like Funimation actually makes for dubbing anime made by other people. If they're raking in assloads of cash, then yeah.. probably.

If their profit margins are razor thin, then no. For all we know they could have been losing money for the last 5 years.

[The1gairon]

2 hours ago, Daos said:

Should VA's be paid more? Impossible to know without knowing what a company like Funimation actually makes for dubbing anime made by other people. If they're raking in assloads of cash, then yeah.. probably.

If their profit margins are razor thin, then no. For all we know they could have been losing money for the last 5 years.

Actors at Funimation have constantly said anime dub actors are paid little. "The smallest of any voice actor professions". Why do you think you discover new actors in anime only to never hear from them again a few years later, except when they're already production staff at the studio?

[MasqueradeOverture]

This kind of work is so culturally prevalent there's no reason why being on MHA or AOT shouldn't be a SAG position.

10 hours ago, Real_AirCooledGirl said:

Have them seize the means of production, too.

Ay no calm the fuck down.

Edited August 13, 2021 by MasqueradeOverture

[Real_AirCooledGirl]

12 minutes ago, MasqueradeOverture said:

This kind of work is so culturally prevalent there's no reason why being on MHA or AOT shouldn't be a SAG position.

Ay no calm the fuck down.

We tried letting capitalists own the means of production and it FAILED. It belongs in the hands of the workers, in this case, voice actors, writers, directors, and other staff who do REAL work. Capitalists don't dub anime. WORKERS do.

[MasqueradeOverture]

Oh my god you've made this thread a gulag dumpsterfire already congratulations 

[DBAss]

Doesn't help that when it comes to anime voice overs, even if you're the MC of an anime's voice on average you'll only get around 4 hours in the booth, and apparently with a lot of non-union work you'll only get paid for time spent in the booth.

It is possible that maybe things changed since many people are recording their lines from home cause the rona vs putting in time in a booth. Though might have gotten worse in terms of pay because the fact that they're doing it from home.

It seems like the American anime industry the only way you can make it as a full time VA and not be part of the production staff is either go to conventions like every other week, or just throw yourself into the fire and be constantly taking on more roles. Michelle Ruff is (or was) a full time VA I remember, where for a good stretch it seemed like she was involved in almost everything coming to the west, even if just a minor one-off role. I think Vic Mignogna was a cop for a good while before he started doing anime and conventions full time.

Edited August 13, 2021 by DBAss

[CountFrylock]

13 hours ago, elfie said:

Actors at Funimation have constantly said anime dub actors are paid little. "The smallest of any voice actor professions". Why do you think you discover new actors in anime only to never hear from them again a few years later, except when they're already production staff at the studio?

the example i stated Was Josh Grelle who was so close to losing they're home because of one commercial they couldn't be in

and at the time they were recording lines for Part 1 of Attack on titan's final season(Armin)

A Commercial would have made things a lot easier but without commercial time it becomes more stress full on the VA's especially when conventions aren't an option in the pandemic

 

[The1gairon]

4 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

the example i stated Was Josh Grelle who was so close to losing they're home because of one commercial they couldn't be in

and at the time they were recording lines for Part 1 of Attack on titan's final season(Armin)

A Commercial would have made things a lot easier but without commercial time it becomes more stress full on the VA's especially when conventions aren't an option in the pandemic

 

I remember that tweet. We made a thread about it.

[CountFrylock]

36 minutes ago, elfie said:

I remember that tweet. We made a thread about it.

which is why i mentioned it....it's a recent example of how these dub va's need to be paid more

otherwise more situations like that will happen....especially during the pandemic

 

[Daos]

17 hours ago, Real_AirCooledGirl said:

We tried letting capitalists own the means of production and it FAILED. It belongs in the hands of the workers, in this case, voice actors, writers, directors, and other staff who do REAL work. Capitalists don't dub anime. WORKERS do.

Oh wait, you were serious with that earlier comment? OY.

You realize that anime only exists because of capitalism right?

[CountFrylock]

Stuff like this happens to many notable Anime Dub VA's too and it's depressing because they don't get paid enough to deal with that kind of crap behavior from psycho fans

hell they aren't even classified as celebrities they are below washed up movie stars and tv actors that are irrelevant now...

but people still keep harassing them anyways

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by CountFrylock

[DBAss]

32 minutes ago, CountFrylock said:

Stuff like this happens to many notable Anime Dub VA's too and it's depressing because they don't get paid enough to deal with that kind of crap behavior from psycho fans

hell they aren't even classified as celebrities they are below washed up movie stars and tv actors that are irrelevant now...

but people still keep harassing them anyways

 

I wouldn't quite write off anime VA's like that.

That does remind me though of Vic's legal issues, where part of the argument against him is that he's a celebrity, and I did find it amusing that even Vic had to argue against that, trying to explain that he isn't a celebrity. They tried making it out that because he's a big time anime VA that's been doing it for 20 years he's a big shot celebrity with a lot of influence, him trying to explain that the industry he's in is viewed as a niche community, where he doesn't have that kind of status or influence the others make him out to have.

Realistically, Troy Baker and Laura Bailey are probably the most popular and known about voice actors that are purely VA's and don't do any live roles. Kari Wahlgren also seems to be rising a lot, I feel like mostly because of Rick & Morty. In America it does seem like you'll gain far more recognition for voicing cartoon characters over anime ones. Even with huge series like AoT and SAO I don't think the majority of the VA's in those ones have much recognition outside of the anime community.

Edited August 16, 2021 by DBAss

[CountFrylock]

2 minutes ago, DBAss said:

I wouldn't quite write off anime VA's like that.

That does remind me though of Vic's legal issues, where part of the argument against him is that he's a celebrity, and I did find it amusing that even Vic had to argue against that, trying to explain that he isn't a celebrity. They tried making it out that because he's a big time anime VA that's been doing it for 20 years he's a big shot celebrity with a lot of influence, him trying to explain that the industry he's in is viewed as a niche community, where he doesn't have that kind of status or influence the others make him out to have.

Realistically, Troy Baker and Laura Bailey are probably the most popular and known about voice actors that are purely VA's and don't do any live roles. Kari Wahlgren also seems to be rising a lot, I feel like mostly because of Rick & Morty. In America it does seem like you'll gain far more attention for voicing cartoon characters over anime ones. Even with huge series like AoT and SAO I don't think the majority of the VA's in those ones have much recognition outside of the anime community.

and that really is disappointing....as it continues this vibe of Anime being this bizarre obscure piece of entertainment that the average american has no clue about

while it's no surprise Kari Wahlgren's name is rising due to rick and morty....it sucks that it's due  to a character whose personality is about as interesting as cardboard and her only purpose is "the girl that morty can never get"

 

[DBAss]

14 minutes ago, CountFrylock said:

and that really is disappointing....as it continues this vibe of Anime being this bizarre obscure piece of entertainment that the average american has no clue about

while it's no surprise Kari Wahlgren's name is rising due to rick and morty....it sucks that it's due  to a character whose personality is about as interesting as cardboard and her only purpose is "the girl that morty can never get"

 

I remember back when the one voice actor strike fiasco was going on, it seems like a lot of people have hate boners for voice actors, and talk shit about how it's not a real job. Being like, they expect to get paid *insert however much* just for talking? lol.

I've seen some people respond with things like just wait until AI voice improves to the point where all of these people will be out of work. I even seen some guy go on a rant / borderline meltdown spewing his hate for voice actors, talking about how when he plays his games he just turns off the voice volume, turns on subtitles, then blasts his music and doesn't give af.

Anime may be on the rise in popularity because it's now considered the cool thing in some crowds. Though I don't really consider those people true fans of it, them only going for the ultra mainstream ones, and are the types where if it was decided it's not cool anymore would drop it immediately.

Realistically I consider Alan Tudyk to probably be one of the most popular American voice actors, since he's a much bigger celebrity, having been in many popular and successful films. I loved him greatly in SW Rogue One, and I do like his take as voicing the Joker in the Harley Quinn series.

Edited August 16, 2021 by DBAss

[CountFrylock]

32 minutes ago, DBAss said:

I remember back when the one voice actor strike fiasco was going on, it seems like a lot of people have hate boners for voice actors, and talk shit about how it's not a real job. Being like, they expect to get paid *insert however much* just for talking? lol.

I've seen some people respond with things like just wait until AI voice improves to the point where all of these people will be out of work. I even seen some guy go on a rant / borderline meltdown spewing his hate for voice actors, talking about how when he plays his games he just turns off the voice volume, turns on subtitles, then blasts his music and doesn't give af.

Anime may be on the rise in popularity because it's now considered the cool thing in some crowds. Though I don't really consider those people true fans of it, them only going for the ultra mainstream ones, and are the types where if it was decided it's not cool anymore would drop it immediately.

Realistically I consider Alan Tudyk to probably be one of the most popular American voice actors, since he's a much bigger celebrity, having been in many popular and successful films. I loved him greatly in SW Rogue One, and I do like his take as voicing the Joker in the Harley Quinn series.

it sucks that there's assumption that voice actors aren't real actors....it doesn't help that the only time you see a voice actor on any talk show is when it's some mainstream celebrity doing voice work for an animated film

someone who typically doesn't do voice work and isn't the best person to ask what it's like

Edited August 16, 2021 by CountFrylock

[The1gairon]

1 hour ago, CountFrylock said:

and that really is disappointing....as it continues this vibe of Anime being this bizarre obscure piece of entertainment that the average american has no clue about

while it's no surprise Kari Wahlgren's name is rising due to rick and morty....it sucks that it's due  to a character whose personality is about as interesting as cardboard and her only purpose is "the girl that morty can never get"

 

Wherever did you figure out she's rising ONLY ONLY due to Rick and Morty, whereas I found out about the hundreds of roles she had since before 2007? But no THIS show is what's giving her her big braek!?

[The1gairon]

20 minutes ago, CountFrylock said:

it sucks that there's assumption that voice actors aren't real actors....it doesn't help that the only time you see a voice actor on any talk show is when it's some mainstream celebrity doing voice work for an animated film

someone who typically doesn't do voice work and isn't the best person to ask what it's like

As usual, the jobs that require the most skill, time, experience, effort, talent, and focus are also the least respected and lowest-paying.

[Top Gun]

I wonder if it's that the hourly rate for anime voice work is too low, or more that it is an hourly rate and therefore makes an actor's income wholly dependent on how many roles they have and how significant they are. Unless you luck out and get a major role in a long ongoing series, or the lead in a shorter but dialog-heavy series, your time spent in the recording booth will be very sporadic. Just think about a member of MHA's large ensemble cast, who may only get significant screentime every several episodes, or an arc character in One Piece that may only get a few lines every hundred episodes. There's no way to make that your sole source of income unless you fight and scrabble for as many roles as you can possibly get in order to ensure as much booth time as possible. It's for good reason that FUNi has tried to get many of their long-time collaborators into directing or script adaptation, because it's a far steadier and more guaranteed source of income. On the flipside, video game work is a much better gig if you can get it. Right off the bat, game budgets are many times bigger than an anime localization effort, and presumably at least a bit of that extra money finds its way to the actors. But even putting that aside, depending on the game, you can wind up recording a LOT more dialog. Hell, picture how much booth time the half-dozen or so saps who voiced most of Skyrim's NPCs had to do. And that's even before you get to the whole union-vs.-non-union thing.

[DBAss]

1 hour ago, CountFrylock said:

it sucks that there's assumption that voice actors aren't real actors....it doesn't help that the only time you see a voice actor on any talk show is when it's some mainstream celebrity doing voice work for an animated film

someone who typically doesn't do voice work and isn't the best person to ask what it's like

That reminds me of back when Disney handled Ghibli movies, how you'd have big name actors be part of the cast. Like with Howl's Moving Castle where you had Christian Bale as Howl. Supposedly with that one though Bale was the one that pursued it because he was a fan of Spirited Away and wanted to work on a film made by them. I remember rewatching HMC a while ago and thought Bale's voice felt out of place for the kind of character Howl was.

Even aside from just anime stuff, with that CGI Scooby Doo movie they released recently that was really bad, they replaced long time Scooby Doo VAs for better known celebrities.

[DBAss]

1 hour ago, elfie said:

Wherever did you figure out she's rising ONLY ONLY due to Rick and Morty, whereas I found out about the hundreds of roles she had since before 2007? But no THIS show is what's giving her her big braek!?

I've known about Kari for a long time and have been a fan of her. Doesn't change the fact that with the way the mindset of the general public is, Rick and Morty is what was needed to get her the recognition she deserves

[Real_AirCooledGirl]

On 8/13/2021 at 2:31 PM, Daos said:

Oh wait, you were serious with that earlier comment? OY.

You realize that anime only exists because of capitalism right?

So by your logic, we can't criticize any system at all without being labeled a hypocrite for living under it? Were the abolitionists hypocrites for living in a slave society? Did the landlord see any irony in being stabbed with the pitchfork he owned because of feudalism? Capitalists don't make or dub anime. WORKERS do.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Real_AirCooledGirl

[Raptorpat]

R_ACG: Calm down, this is a thread about anime.

[MasqueradeOverture]

1 hour ago, Real_AirCooledGirl said:

So by your logic, we can't criticize any system at all without being labeled a hypocrite for living under it? Were the abolitionists hypocrites for living in a slave society? Did the landlord see any irony in being stabbed with the pitchfork he owned because of feudalism? Capitalists don't make or dub anime. WORKERS do.

But people only buy said anime with capital. 

If there's no one buying anime from a distributor, there's not enough money flowing to pay said VA's, company goes under, VA's lose their job.

[Daos]

8 hours ago, Real_AirCooledGirl said:

So by your logic, we can't criticize any system at all without being labeled a hypocrite for living under it? Were the abolitionists hypocrites for living in a slave society? Did the landlord see any irony in being stabbed with the pitchfork he owned because of feudalism? Capitalists don't make or dub anime. WORKERS do.

Are you an actual communist or just trolling?

[naraku360]

52 minutes ago, Daos said:

Are you an actual communist or just trolling?

No, she's an authoritarian fascist.

Like she thinks executing people for disagreeing with her is progressive.

[brian_boru]

On 8/13/2021 at 2:31 PM, Daos said:

Oh wait, you were serious with that earlier comment? OY.

You realize that anime only exists because of capitalism right?

I am pretty sure anime exists because of animators.

[naraku360]

On 8/13/2021 at 11:31 AM, Daos said:

You realize that anime only exists because of capitalism right?

Art existed before capitalism. Wtf are you talking about?

[Daos]

2 hours ago, naraku360 said:

Art existed before capitalism. Wtf are you talking about?

How many State run anime studios are there again?

[CountFrylock]

17 hours ago, DBAss said:

That reminds me of back when Disney handled Ghibli movies, how you'd have big name actors be part of the cast. Like with Howl's Moving Castle where you had Christian Bale as Howl. Supposedly with that one though Bale was the one that pursued it because he was a fan of Spirited Away and wanted to work on a film made by them. I remember rewatching HMC a while ago and thought Bale's voice felt out of place for the kind of character Howl was.

Even aside from just anime stuff, with that CGI Scooby Doo movie they released recently that was really bad, they replaced long time Scooby Doo VAs for better known celebrities.

voice actors aren't really valued that much by the mainstream media....they believe unless it's a well known celebrity  nobody will care....

and speaking of disney it's a shame that after Disney stopped handling movies like that.....Japanese Animated Films went back to being Limited Release(even the bigger name series like MHA And Demon Slayer Might Only Have 1'000 theaters or so in the country playing them)

 

[naraku360]

4 hours ago, Daos said:

How many State run anime studios are there again?

That's not what communism is, nor is it relevant to art existing before capitalism.

[Daos]

45 minutes ago, naraku360 said:

That's not what communism is, nor is it relevant to art existing before capitalism.

And how's the anime industry in these non capitalist countries going?

[The1gairon]

8 hours ago, brian_boru said:

I am pretty sure anime exists because of animators.

[naraku360]

1 hour ago, Daos said:

And how's the anime industry in these non capitalist countries going?

Why are you asking a bunch of gotcha questions that have nothing to do with what I said?

When did I say anything about anime coming from non-capitalist countries?

[MasqueradeOverture]

I love Soviet animation

Edited August 17, 2021 by MasqueradeOverture

[brian_boru]

9 hours ago, Daos said:

And how's the anime industry in these non capitalist countries going?

What non capitalist countries?

[brian_boru]

8 hours ago, naraku360 said:

Why are you asking a bunch of gotcha questions that have nothing to do with what I said?

When did I say anything about anime coming from non-capitalist countries?

Because he can't argue against what you said.

[Daos]

9 hours ago, naraku360 said:

Why are you asking a bunch of gotcha questions that have nothing to do with what I said?

When did I say anything about anime coming from non-capitalist countries?

You seem to take issue with the fact that the Anime industry wouldn't exist without capitalism. No idea why you find that concept so surprising. The entire concept of a person paying excess money to a private company not owned by the State that produces an entertainment product that's not vital to the operations of a country is a fairly capitalist concept.

I mean animation could still exist in some form I'm sure, in the same way that East Germany had an auto Industry.

 

[naraku360]

1 hour ago, Daos said:

You seem to take issue with the fact that the Anime industry wouldn't exist without capitalism. No idea why you find that concept so surprising. The entire concept of a person paying excess money to a private company not owned by the State that produces an entertainment product that's not vital to the operations of a country is a fairly capitalist concept.

I mean animation could still exist in some form I'm sure, in the same way that East Germany had an auto Industry.

 

No, anime is an art form. Art existed before capitalism. If people can organize to create something, they will. If anything, capitalism ACTIVELY makes it harder to do that. Have you seen the working conditions anime company have? Is that really the only way to create art?

Edited August 18, 2021 by naraku360

[EmpressAngel]

All workers in the anime industry deserve to be paid a living wage, but this sure is a weird anti-capitalism rabbit hole that this thread has gone down. Every single anime production (yes, even your favorite niche art house title) exists at least partially with the goal of turning a profit for its creators. Sure there'd still be some anime being made if the big bad capitalism boogieman wasn't a thing, but let's be honest here that most projects we've enjoyed over the years would have never seen the light of day. I don't think anybody really wants a Thief and the Cobbler situation where a creator toils away for 30 damn years on one single dream project, even if it's not ripped away by those greedy capitalist dogs at the last minute. There's a midpoint somewhere between "art exists entirely for art's sake and damn any concept of overhead control from the industry" vs "the capitalist pigs in power demand their daily blood sacrifice from the workers destroying themselves in the art mines creating anime waifus" and I'm not sure how nerds twisting each other's points to snipe back and forth online is doing any good with that.

[PokeNirvash]

See, if the question this thread was posing was targeted at me specifically, I'd just say, "Well, duh!" and leave it at that.

[naraku360]

9 hours ago, EmpressAngel said:

All workers in the anime industry deserve to be paid a living wage, but this sure is a weird anti-capitalism rabbit hole that this thread has gone down. Every single anime production (yes, even your favorite niche art house title) exists at least partially with the goal of turning a profit for its creators. Sure there'd still be some anime being made if the big bad capitalism boogieman wasn't a thing, but let's be honest here that most projects we've enjoyed over the years would have never seen the light of day. I don't think anybody really wants a Thief and the Cobbler situation where a creator toils away for 30 damn years on one single dream project, even if it's not ripped away by those greedy capitalist dogs at the last minute. There's a midpoint somewhere between "art exists entirely for art's sake and damn any concept of overhead control from the industry" vs "the capitalist pigs in power demand their daily blood sacrifice from the workers destroying themselves in the art mines creating anime waifus" and I'm not sure how nerds twisting each other's points to snipe back and forth online is doing any good with that.

Is it anti-capitalist to say that capitalism art still existed prior to it, therefore it likely would have been created regardless of if capitalism were a thing?

To say "the reason anime exists is because of capitalism" is a shallow worldview that ignores the insane standards the existing industry puts on the workers. You don't have to work 30 years on a dream project to be given decent working conditions, but the profit motive gives an incentive to cut corners or drop quality to pander, which are clearly detriments.

I'm saying removing those barriers would help to create quality productions. Obviously, we get plenty of quality shows under capitalism. I'm only trying to make the point that it's obviously not the only factor, much less so important thst the industry would cease to exist without it (an insane belief).

Now, RACG is a lunatic who thinks everyone that looks at her the wrong way should get Old Yellered, so this isn't a defense of her ridiculous positions.

Edited August 18, 2021 by naraku360