The Toonami Ratings Thread 1.0 :You are on a new board

[Blatch]

If you asked [adult swim] about potentially cratering the numbers due to Crunchynami, I'm sure they'd give you a two-word response:

Worth it. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Blatch

[OwlChemist81]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 5:15 PM, korosu said:

shippuden is likely to take super's spot as the first show when it ends late next year and it could be good to have it back earlier in the night in anticipation for that. it's certainly the only thing i can think of deserving to air in between super and new flcl when kai ends.

Wow, that's utterly preposterous! I could see BORUTO take DBS's spot, but Shippuden would be insane!

Also, this really isn't too shabby:

Adult Swim switched up some of its late-night line-up, which performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL at 0.44/0.40 compared to last week’s 0.45/0.37, BLACK CLOVER up 0.03 to 0.30, FOOLY COOLY at 0.24, MIND GAME at 0.18, JOJO’S BIZARRE ADVENTURE down 0.06 to 0.15, HUNTER X HUNTER down 0.06 to 0.16/326K, NARUTO down 0.08 to 0.16/305K, SPACE DANDY down 0.06 to 0.16/319K, COWBOY BEBOP at 0.16/300K compared to last week’s 0.22/0.20, and GHOST IN THE SHELL down 0.05 to 0.14/287K.

I daresay Subtitles Night was a success! We've certainly seen lower! This just might be the fuel Toonami needs to try airing same-week-as-Japan subtitled simulcasts in the later hours, perhaps starting in October!

Edited April 4, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[Blatch]

22 minutes ago, OwlChemist81 said:

I daresay Subtitles Night was a success! We've certainly seen lower! This just might be the fuel Toonami needs to try airing same-week-as-Japan subtitled simulcasts in the later hours, perhaps starting in October!

W... what?

I feel like the Japanese companies would have to be genuinely insane to accept airing on a backwoods American television block rather than the oasis of legal streaming, and [adult swim]'s website isn't a valid substitute. Otherwise, I'm probably going crazy myself, because I'm okay with this idea, even though I know it's never going to happen. 

[The1gairon]

Just now, Blatch said:

W... what?

I feel like the Japanese companies would have to be genuinely insane to accept airing on a backwoods American television block rather than the oasis of legal streaming, and [adult swim]'s website isn't a valid substitute. Otherwise, I'm probably going crazy myself, because I'm okay with this idea, even though I know it's never going to happen. 

You do realize most of the anime that otaku watch ALSO air in the wee hours of the night? The timeslots aren't too different from Toonami's.

[korosu]

1 hour ago, OwlChemist81 said:

Wow, that's utterly preposterous! I could see BORUTO take DBS's spot, but Shippuden would be insane!

if boruto was going to air then it would probably be the same as super/kai and it will air alongside shippuden. shippuden is 500 episodes and the next popular show logically suited to move to the first slot when super is done, or second if boruto is first.

[OwlChemist81]

Now that you mention it, I guess I COULD see Boruto in the lead slot, directly followed by Shippuden! Wouldn't be that different from what we have right now with Super and Kai. Of course that would mean a boost for Shippuden that would equal the Ascent of Alucard (3 hours earlier)!

[OwlChemist81]

Here's the full grid:

http://programminginsider.com/saturday-final-ratings-mens-ncaa-final-four-on-turner-sports-down-from-cbs-last-year-but-up-from-turner-networks-in-2016/

	PROGRAM	Viewers (000)	A1849 rating	A1849 (000)
10:30	Dragon Ball Super	977	0.44	568
11:00	Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters	881	0.40	522
11:30	Black Clover	647	0.30	389
12:00a	Fooly Cooly	521	0.24	305
12:30a	Mind Game (p)	381	0.18	229
2:45a	Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders	324	0.15	199
3:15a	Hunter X Hunter (r)	326	0.17	213
3:45a	Naruto: Shippuden (r)	305	0.16	204
4:15a	Space Dandy (r)	319	0.16	209
4:45a	Cowboy Bebop (r)	300	0.16	201
5:15a	Ghost In Shell: 2nd Gig (r)	287	0.14	186
5:45a	Scavengers (r)	278	0.13	174

The usual portion of the lineup (10:30 PM-4 AM) averaged 504K in total viewers and 303K in adults 18-49. Both are 11th place out of 13 for 2018. The whole night's average was 449K total viewers and 270K adults 18-49. For a special event with little to no advance announcement, that's really not that bad.

Retention - 3/31/18
Show	Total Viewers	Adults 18-49
DBS	Unknown	Unknown
DBZKFC	90.17%	91.90%
BClover	73.44%	74.52%
FLCL Alt	80.53%	78.41%
Mind Game	73.13%	75.08%
JoJo	85.04%	86.90%
HxH	100.62%	107.04%
Shippuden	93.56%	95.77%
Dandy	104.59%	102.45%
Bebop	94.04%	96.17%
GITS	95.67%	92.54%
Scavengers	96.86%	93.55%

HxH and Shippuden's subs were the best retainers, and completely blew away anything dubbed. Once JoJo ended, the rest of the night retained very well!

[Daos]

But like I always say, when the viewers crater early on the retention for the last part of the night is always really good. Even dandy did 104 percent.

We'll see how FLCL does when it airs for real but if this weeks ratings are any indication... it's not going to do very well.

There's no way Boruto is getting the top spot.

[OwlChemist81]

6 hours ago, Blatch said:

W... what?

I feel like the Japanese companies would have to be genuinely insane to accept airing on a backwoods American television block rather than the oasis of legal streaming, and [adult swim]'s website isn't a valid substitute. Otherwise, I'm probably going crazy myself, because I'm okay with this idea, even though I know it's never going to happen. 

Look at it from the standpoint of the creators. The streaming sites can only offer streaming. Adult Swim/Toonami could offer at least one run of every episode on linear TV (at least two if a dub is produced), plus limited streaming and VOD. If they would just expand their streaming offerings a little to cover a whole cour at a time, they could probably give the big streaming sites a run for their money. The only obstacle to getting in on the "same week as Japan" model most of the big streaming sites boasted was that [as] would not air subtitled anime. Now, after this year's April Fool's stunt, I daresay as long as we're talking only about same-week simulcasts, that may no longer be the case. The sneak preview of FLCL Alternative may actually have been more than that--like the original [as] Toonami stunt six years prior, it may have been a pilot as well.

 
Now I wouldn't be spouting this nonsense if I didn't have a show in mind. That show is none other than Sword Art Online: Alicization. Of course, it would be desired for it to be aired back-to-back with another same-week simulcast from the Fall season that would not be simuldubbed, maybe in the 2 AM hour, but I digress. Perhaps they could even yank the proverbial rug from under Hulu's feet in terms of SAO. If the Gun Gale Alternative dub would be ready by then, it could make for a really interesting back-to-back combo!

[Blatch]

My personal biggest issue is that you just can't come to a conclusion based off of this special event. Yes, the numbers (at least from midnight to 4:15A) held steady, but you probably had equilibrium from some of the normal people leaving alongside the more curious viewers tuning in when they otherwise wouldn't. How would they react if you started showing subs on a weekly basis?

Also, Toonami's mission has never been to air subtitled content. As in, not in Japanese or German or Navajo or some shit, but in good old English; American, British, or otherwise. And considering that they essentially created the idea of a simuldub, it would do them more good to keep airing shows with English versions produced as quickly as possible. Why even bother with airing a simulcast if Funimation can spit out a dub of this show within a week of the simulcast airings? Of course, I understand we're talking about a property from Aniplex here, but my hope is that these dubs eventually become an industry standard and they're pretty much forced to at least try (again).

Also, you saying "daresay" so much bugs me for some reason. 

[The1gairon]

Toonami created the idea of the simuldub??

[PokeNirvash]

Uh... hello? World premiere episodes of Space Dandy?

[Blatch]

It had been done before (Kurokami says hi), but Space Dandy was probably first time a dub had been created that quickly without it being a trainwreck.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Blatch
The post sent too early. =O

[The1gairon]

Simuldubs are a trademarked name by Funimation, which created that way of dubbing.  My point is you seemed to type like Toonami created the idea of simuldubs instead. That's all.

[Blatch]

Oh, okay. I just prefer to use that as a general term. Simuldubs, dubcasts... there's no real difference.

[OwlChemist81]

1 hour ago, Blatch said:

It had been done before (Kurokami says hi), but Space Dandy was probably first time a dub had been created that quickly without it being a trainwreck.

I watched the dub of Kurokami, and I don't think there was anything wrong with it.

It was just relegated to a crappy 3rd-rate TV network instead of Adult Swim or even Syfy.

[OwlChemist81]

Well, this is interesting...

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/cable-live-3-ratings-for-march-26-april-1-2018/

Rank

Show

Net

L+3 18-49 rating

Gain vs. Live + SD

% gain vs. Live + SD

19

DRAGON BALL SUPER

ADSM

0.7

0.3

75%

That's #19 in Live+3 for Adults 18-49 in ALL cable originals for the WHOLE WEEK. Not too shabby!

Keep in mind that Dragon Ball Super scored a 0.44 in Adults 18-49 on 3/31, which was rounded down to a 0.4 by TVBTN. So when they say it gained 75%, that's based on a really crude rounded-off estimate. If it ended up as a 0.7 in Live+3 18-49, then that's really a swing from 0.65 to 0.74, meaning that it increased anywhere from 0.21 to 0.30, which is a gain of more like 48%-68%. Still, very impressive.

And just in case you're wondering what that means in terms of real viewer numbers, that means 269K-385K more adults 18-49 watched Dragon Ball Super between 3 AM Sunday and 3 AM Wednesday that didn't watch it Saturday night, and a total of up to 953K adults 18-49 watched it between its premiere at 9:30 PM Saturday night and 3 AM Wednesday! Is that good for Toonami? I dunno. But it's DAMN good for Super!

Edited April 11, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[OwlChemist81]

Hey, this is an improvement!

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-saturday-cable-originals-network-finals-4-7-2018.html

Yes, that's right. Dragon Ball Super freaking WON THE NIGHT in all the teen and young adult demos, and in Males 12-34, the top 3 shows were the first 3 Toonami shows (DBS, DBZKai, and Countdown).

P2+	Last Week	This Week	Change
DBS	977,000	1,042,000	65,000
DBZKFC	881,000	818,000	-63,000
Countdown	647,000	688,000	41,000
JoJo	521,000	568,000	47,000
Gundam	381,000	515,000	134,000
Bclover	381,000	462,000	81,000
		AVERAGE	61,000
A 18-34	Last Week	This Week	Change
DBS	0.51	0.57	+0.06
DBZKFC	0.48	0.50	+0.02
Countdown	0.37	0.44	+0.07
JoJo	0.31	0.34	+0.03
Gundam	0.22	0.33	+0.11
Bclover	0.22	0.26	+0.04
		AVERAGE	0.06
A 18-49	Last Week	This Week	Change
DBS	0.44	0.48	+0.04
DBZKFC	0.40	0.40	+0.00
Countdown	0.30	0.34	+0.04
JoJo	0.24	0.26	+0.02
Gundam	0.18	0.26	+0.08
Bclover	0.18	0.22	+0.04
		AVERAGE	0.04

 In terms of the week-to-week comparison, the only blight appears to be DBZ Kai at first, but it is important to note that this isn't exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, especially in the case of Countdown. It only lasted 15 minutes, as we still don't know how the Scavengers half of the 30-minute timeslot did, and that whole timeslot was of course occupied last week by Black Clover. Meanwhile, JoJo gained slightly on the sub of FLCL Alternative, and Gundam and Black Clover both gained considerably on Mind Game, which occupied those half-hours, but it's important to note that Mind Game's ratings were for its full 2.25-hour run, so those gains may be inflated a bit.

Total Viewers
Show	People	Retention
DBS	1,042,000	N/A
DBZKFC	818,000	78.50%
Countdown	688,000	84.11%
JoJo	568,000	82.56%
Gundam	515,000	90.67%
Bclover	462,000	89.71%
Adults 18-34
Show	Rating	Estimate	Retention
DBS	0.57	387,000	N/A
DBZKFC	0.50	340,000	87.72%
Countdown	0.44	299,000	88.00%
JoJo	0.34	231,000	77.27%
Gundam	0.33	224,000	97.06%
Bclover	0.26	177,000	78.79%
Adults 18-49
Show	Rating	Estimate	Retention
DBS	0.48	615,000	N/A
DBZKFC	0.40	513,000	83.33%
Countdown	0.34	436,000	85.00%
JoJo	0.26	333,000	76.47%
Gundam	0.26	333,000	100.00%
Bclover	0.22	282,000	84.62%
Adults 18-49
Show	Rank	Change
DBS	#4	+5
DBZKFC	#5	+10
Countdown	#7	N/A
JoJo	#16	+36
Gundam	#19	N/A
Bclover	#30	-15

JoJo's retention in target demos may look rough, but keep in mind that it isn't exactly a pure back-to-back retention, as Scavengers was in between them and is as of yet unreported. So we'll find out what its "real" retention was in all but 18-34 later on!

[Jman]

Hey, the numbers aren’t too bad.

Allow reruns to crater all that goodwill next week.

[Daos]

Looks good, I think they found a more appropriate spot for BC and it helps.

[OwlChemist81]

11 minutes ago, Jman said:

Hey, the numbers aren’t too bad.

Allow reruns to crater all that goodwill next week.

I doubt it. FLCL Season 1 hasn't been on TV in over 4 years, this will probably be its first true HD presentation (IIRC Toonami was still stuck doing Stretch-O-View in late 2013 and early 2014), and it is universally beloved, so this might also hold Kai better than Black Clover did even IF [as] did kinda run it into the ground in 2010-2012!

It is, however, a bit of a shame that Kai is no longer pillarboxed. We could have called the 11 PM hour the "pillarbox" hour!

Aside from that, I don't know what other "reruns" you're talking about. JoJo, Gundam, and even Black Clover will still be new. On that note, now that you mention it, I'm surprised we actually got to see how well JoJo did from SBD, as technically it WAS a rerun this week, because 3rd-tier limited subbed airing on the Japanese network or something like that is apparently what disqualifies Hunter X Hunter and Shippuden!

Edited April 10, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[OwlChemist81]

Update is in...

DRAGON BALL at 0.48/0.40 compared to last week’s 0.44/0.40, TOONAMI COUNTDOWN at 0.34, SCAVENGERS at 0.30, JOJO’S BIZARRE ADVENTURE up 0.11 to 0.26, MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM back from a week off at 0.26, BLACK COVER down 0.08 to 0.22, HUNTER X HUNTER up 0.06 to 0.22/450K, NARUTO up 0.05 to 0.21/439K, SPACE DANDY up 0.02 to 0.18/371K, COWBOY BEBOP up 0.03 to 0.19/398K, and GHOST IN THE SHELL up 0.05 to 0.19/376K.

...and we STILL don't know how well Scavengers did in total viewers, but at least we DO know in Adults 18-49! And please note that everything except Gundam and Black Clover is up primarily because almost everything was on MUCH later.

Edited April 10, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[MasqueradeOverture]

A rerun of CGI robot interstitials gets higher ratings than an actual show.

Black Clover was a mistake.

[PokeNirvash]

Steve Blum's voice and accidental Oreimo references make all the difference, don't they?

[Sketch]

Oreimo references?

[Daos]

Someone tell me why BC is so bad in the 18 to 34 demo. Is it actually doing better with older viewers? 

[PokeNirvash]

6 hours ago, Sketch said:

Oreimo references?

At the beginning, TOM mentioned a nebula that went by the name "Kuroneko". Clearly coincidental, but I still thought of Oreimo upon hearing it.

[OwlChemist81]

16 hours ago, Daos said:

Someone tell me why BC is so bad in the 18 to 34 demo. Is it actually doing better with older viewers? 

You may be onto something there! It's pretty plain to see it didn't lose very many if any. It lost about 47K 18-34 but 48K 18-49, so that means it only lost about a thousand 35-49-year olds, so this particular episode was apparently actually able to retain well in 35-49!

http://programminginsider.com/saturday-final-ratings-trading-spaces-reopens-to-solid-results-for-tlc/

	PROGRAM	Viewers (000)	A1849 rating	A1849 (000)
10:30	Dragon Ball Super	1042	0.48	622
11:00	Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters	818	0.40	522
11:30	Toonami Countdown (p)	688	0.34	434
11:45	Scavengers (r)	632	0.30	384
12:00a	Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders	568	0.26	339
12:30a	Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans	515	0.26	336
1:00a	Black Clover	462	0.22	288
1:30a	Hunter X Hunter (r)	450	0.22	284
2:00a	Naruto: Shippuden (r)	439	0.21	272
2:30a	Space Dandy (r)	371	0.18	226
3:00a	Cowboy Bebop (r)	398	0.19	249
3:30a	Ghost In the Shell: 2nd Gig (r)	376	0.19	246

4/7/2018
Show	Total Viewers	Adults 18-49	Adults 18-34 (est.)	Adults 35-49 (est.)
DBS	1,042,000	622,000	387,000	235,000
DBZKFC	818,000	522,000	340,000	182,000
Countdown	688,000	434,000	299,000	135,000
Scavengers	632,000	384,000
JoJo	568,000	339,000	231,000	108,000
Gundam	515,000	336,000	224,000	112,000
BClover	462,000	288,000	177,000	111,000
HxH	450,000	284,000
Shippuden	439,000	272,000
Dandy	371,000	226,000
Bebop	398,000	249,000
GITS	376,000	246,000

Retention - 3/24/18
Show	Total Viewers	Adults 18-49	Adults 18-34 (est.)	Adults 35-49 (est.)
DBZKFC	78.50%	83.92%	87.86%	77.45%
Countdown	84.11%	83.14%	87.94%	74.18%
Scavengers	91.86%	88.48%
JoJo	89.87%	88.28%	77.26%*	80.00%*
Gundam	90.67%	99.12%	96.97%	103.70%
BClover	89.71%	85.71%	79.02%	99.11%
HxH	97.40%	98.61%
Shippuden	97.56%	95.77%
Dandy	84.51%	83.09%
Bebop	107.28%	110.18%
GITS	94.47%	98.80%

*Not a true "back-to-back" retention figure; numbers were obtained by dividing 12 AM-12:30 AM JoJo by 11:30 PM-11:45 PM Countdown.

Look at that discrepancy in Black Clover: 99% retention in 35-49 while only 79% retention in 18-34. It turns out the older adult demographic (like myself) may have a higher tolerance for garbage. Either that, or we're more likely to "get" Black Clover while younger viewers don't. Whatever the case, it should also be noted that the 18-34 numbers are, as always, estimations based on the hundredths digits provided by Show Buzz Daily, and the 35-49 numbers are obtained by subtracting those estimates from the 18-49 viewer totals reported by Programming Insider.

BLOCK AVERAGES: 554K overall viewers; 345K adults 18-49, ranked #6 and #5 respectively out of 14 (above average) for 2018.

Also, this went unnoticed earlier, for 3/31:

http://programminginsider.com/saturday-final-ratings-mens-ncaa-final-four-on-turner-sports-down-from-cbs-last-year-but-up-from-turner-networks-in-2016/

Dragon Ball Super #4 in 18-49. That's only behind the two NCAA Final Four games, and the programming bridge between them. It's also ahead of its Family Guy lead-in! Did the trend continue this week? We'll probably find out soon!

Edited April 11, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[Daos]

Sketch gets namedropped!

 

[OwlChemist81]

How long does this guy even think Kai is?

If he paid any attention to the original DBZ, he would know that it is fast nearing its end.

Assuming we get a marathon on Memorial Day Weekend, it's done on June 23rd, which is halfway through FLCL Progressive.

So theoretically, one of the three new acquisitions will be taking over 11 PM on 6/23. Will it be something that is wise to lead into FLCL with? That remains yet to be seen...

And FINALLY, what the HELL was that game he was playing in the background and what did it have to do with ANYTHING!?!?

Edited April 12, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[korosu]

11 pm slot opens on June 30th and if they do a July 7 marathon i can see that being Scavengers 1 and 2 on 6/30 and if it's out and can get dubbed immediately, Attack on Titan season 3 7/14 at 11.

[OwlChemist81]

You sure about that? I thought it was 6/23, but you may be right!

I would dig AOT S3 leading-into the final episode of FLCL, but I dunno about breaking up FLCL like that. I guess it COULD happen, but I would think it would be June 30th instead. I really don't know which weekend you would call "Fourth of July Weekend". I'm thinking no marathon, but I dunno.

But of course, when AOT S3 comes, it has to go SOMEwhere! Could also dare to re-air the last 2 episodes of AOT S2 at 11, I guess...

Also, Super declined in all demos from Family Guy this week:

Family Guy (ADSM, 10:00 PM, 30 min.)
– 1.151 million viewers (#25)
– 0.73 HH (#24)
– 0.51 A18-49 (#6)
– 0.60 A18-34 (#1)
– 0.45 A25-54 (#15)

Dragon Ball Super (ADSM, 10:30 PM, 30 min.)
– 1.042 million viewers (#29)
– 0.66 HH (#28)
– 0.48 A18-49 (#9)
– 0.57 A18-34 (#2)
– 0.43 A25-54 (#16)

Still #2 for the night among ALL prime-time cable, so that's pretty damn good!

[korosu]

Yeah DBZ Kai: The Final Chapters is 69 episodes and we're on 60 this week. Attack on Titan season 3 is July but no actual date is known. And July 4th is closer to 7/7 than 6/30. There's no precedence for a marathon then, but the Super dub situation could make one appealing to FUNi, or it could be just what they need to bring in Attack on Titan season 3 with no more 11 pm filler.

Edited April 12, 2018 by korosu

[OwlChemist81]

I could also see AOT S3 take FLCL Progressive's place on 7/14, and then with a week or two of filler before, FLCL Alternative take JoJo's place at Midnight.

I'm going with probably no marathon on the 4th of July "weekend," whichever weekend that might be, but more likely 6/30 than 7/7 just because it makes more sense for FLCL Progressive to take a week off with 2 episodes left than 1 episode left.

Kinda hoping if it DOES replace DBZKFC, it would be on 7/7. If they take the 6/30 marathon route, you wouldn't even need a "filler" then! I know you might think that's too soon, but it COULD happen!

[Blatch]

I have not watched the video (because ani-tubers don't really appeal to me), but I hope whoever made this doesn't think FLCL is replacing Black Clover outright. I get that some of us have a hateboner for it, but come on.

Because of the FLCL situation, I do think there's going to be a marathon on either June 30 or July 7. If a new show is replacing DBZ Kai (which I'm edging towards based on recent DeMarco comments), they would more likely have the marathon on the latter date. FLCL Progressive would break before its final episode, but they have done this a few times before, with Black Lagoon and Samurai Champloo. It's not unnatural compared to preempting a show after it airs just one episode, which they've never done.

Now, on the other hand, they're being set up for quite the boondoggle in late June no matter what happens. I have to imagine that a new show would be better off airing after 11:00, but I'm not sure if they could mess with FLCL Progressive's timeslot in the middle of its short run, especially since the change would happen on the week of the final episode assuming the 7/7 marathon. But at the same time, I'm not sure if any new show, even the absolute heaviest heavyweights (Attack on Titan, et al.) could suffice at a timeslot where only Samurai Jack and DBZ Kai have aired new episodes. We'll see about this, though... they might just be bold enough to use the post-DBS slot for well-hyped anime that need exposure, and I would not at all be opposed to the idea.

Toonami did flirt with losing a half-hour last year, so I could see 10:30 being dropped for just a couple of weeks. One issue with this is that I guess Dragon Ball Super airing at 10:30 was part of the contract they negotiated with Toei; it has to be in primetime or else they can't air new episodes. To combat this, they could bring back the 8:00 p.m. rerun for a couple of weeks, or maybe even air reruns in the interlude to let Funi catch up on the dub. And it just so happens that the Future Trunks saga ends on June 16, the exact week DBZ Kai ends. They could rerun the last few episodes of that arc (albeit with its infamous ending) without a gigantic heap of controversy.

But getting back to the other point, FLCL Progressive ends on July 14, so after that they can add the slot back and mess with the schedule however they please. This is probably the easiest way for Attack on Titan S3 to air; at this point, a same-day simuldub will probably happen, but I'm not sure if they can risk airing it on Toonami.

Finally, I think it's very likely GiTS 2ND GiG is replaced with a new show; considering how far down it is, that's prime territory for the "confusing" show Jason hinted at to air. And so ends my speculation that's about three paragraphs longer than it needed to be. 

[it's free real estate]

Edited April 12, 2018 by Blatch

[Daos]

Is this a Zombie could be the confusing show. It's aired on Chillr and if Chillr was able to get it, anyone can get it. 

Johnson has been harping about moving Kai down forever now, so he probably doesn't realize it's over in 2 months and would make zero sense at this point to move it.

[korosu]

1 hour ago, Blatch said:

It's not unnatural compared to preempting a show after it airs just one episode, which they've never done.

Toonami did flirt with losing a half-hour last year, so I could see 10:30 being dropped for just a couple of weeks. One issue with this is that I guess Dragon Ball Super airing at 10:30 was part of the contract they negotiated with Toei; it has to be in primetime or else they can't air new episodes.

2nd GIG HD is the only show, premiere or rerun, that they've preempted after one week. Can't really say if they'd do this for an actual premiere but we know it can happen with reruns.

And last year Dragon Ball Super episode 26 premiered at 11:30 on July 22nd but was rerun at 8 the following week and episode 27 premiered after it at 8:30 with 8:30 being the slot for premieres until they got 10:30. So they can premiere Super at 11 or later but they have to rerun it in prime time the following week.

[Blatch]

Well, yeah. I probably should've disambiguated that. And GiTS actually got preempted in back-to-back weeks: first by a Halloween marathon, and then by the Aqua Teen Hunger Force movie airing as a DST special after that.

[korosu]

Night Cruise did air that night right before the movie.

[Blatch]

Oh... so I assumed it based on my personal ratings chart not showing them. Got it. 

[korosu]

yeah there's no data for that or Waltz for Venus

[brianycpht]

11 hours ago, Blatch said:

I have not watched the video (because ani-tubers don't really appeal to me), but I hope whoever made this doesn't think FLCL is replacing Black Clover outright. I get that some of us have a hateboner for it, but come on.

Because of the FLCL situation, I do think there's going to be a marathon on either June 30 or July 7. If a new show is replacing DBZ Kai (which I'm edging towards based on recent DeMarco comments), they would more likely have the marathon on the latter date. FLCL Progressive would break before its final episode, but they have done this a few times before, with Black Lagoon and Samurai Champloo. It's not unnatural compared to preempting a show after it airs just one episode, which they've never done.

Now, on the other hand, they're being set up for quite the boondoggle in late June no matter what happens. I have to imagine that a new show would be better off airing after 11:00, but I'm not sure if they could mess with FLCL Progressive's timeslot in the middle of its short run, especially since the change would happen on the week of the final episode assuming the 7/7 marathon. But at the same time, I'm not sure if any new show, even the absolute heaviest heavyweights (Attack on Titan, et al.) could suffice at a timeslot where only Samurai Jack and DBZ Kai have aired new episodes. We'll see about this, though... they might just be bold enough to use the post-DBS slot for well-hyped anime that need exposure, and I would not at all be opposed to the idea.

Toonami did flirt with losing a half-hour last year, so I could see 10:30 being dropped for just a couple of weeks. One issue with this is that I guess Dragon Ball Super airing at 10:30 was part of the contract they negotiated with Toei; it has to be in primetime or else they can't air new episodes. To combat this, they could bring back the 8:00 p.m. rerun for a couple of weeks, or maybe even air reruns in the interlude to let Funi catch up on the dub. And it just so happens that the Future Trunks saga ends on June 16, the exact week DBZ Kai ends. They could rerun the last few episodes of that arc (albeit with its infamous ending) without a gigantic heap of controversy.

But getting back to the other point, FLCL Progressive ends on July 14, so after that they can add the slot back and mess with the schedule however they please. This is probably the easiest way for Attack on Titan S3 to air; at this point, a same-day simuldub will probably happen, but I'm not sure if they can risk airing it on Toonami.

Finally, I think it's very likely GiTS 2ND GiG is replaced with a new show; considering how far down it is, that's prime territory for the "confusing" show Jason hinted at to air. And so ends my speculation that's about three paragraphs longer than it needed to be. 

[it's free real estate]

Titan was such an issue last year since it was competing with the sub. I hope we don’t have another situation where Funimation is doing the simuldub several episodes ahead of Toonami. That would seriously fracture the audience and kill the hype. In fact I’m willing to bet AS has a first rights contract with the show as we saw Funimation break when they did.

im guessing if they do attempt air a same day simuldub, it would have a lead in the dubbing process. Also, they should have a ready back up plan at anytime in case it can’t happen one week and announce to people ahead of time that this is a possibility 

[OwlChemist81]

Well, it's Tuesday, and we've got a new set of ratings! Brace yourselves, because these are pretty awful, even by today's standards:

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-saturday-cable-originals-network-finals-4-14-2018.html

51	WATTERS WORLD	FOX NEWS CHANNEL	8:00 PM	60	0.18	1,983
52	BLACK CLOVER	ADULT SWIM	1:00 AM	30	0.18	361

I think it's pretty obvious some people just flipped over to Dragon Ball Super between two NBA Playoffs games on ESPN. How else can you explain the precipitous decline between DBS and DBZKFC that's WAY worse than usual? Unfortunately, it seems that pattern will continue next week. It COULD be that FLCL is some sort of sacrificial lamb during the early part of the playoffs season, because later on FLCL Progressive won't be up against Finals games, since they occur on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays.

P2+	Last Week	This Week	Change
DBS	1,042,000	1,020,000	-22,000
DBZKFC	818,000	793,000	-25,000
Countdown	688,000
JoJo	568,000	489,000	-79,000
Gundam	515,000	410,000	-105,000
Bclover	462,000	361,000	-101,000
		AVERAGE	-66,400
A 18-34	Last Week	This Week	Change
DBS	0.57	0.59	+0.02
DBZKFC	0.50	0.40	-0.10
Countdown	0.44
JoJo	0.34	0.30	-0.04
Gundam	0.33	0.24	-0.09
Bclover	0.26
		AVERAGE	-0.04
A 18-49	Last Week	This Week	Change
DBS	0.48	0.47	-0.01
DBZKFC	0.40	0.34	-0.06
Countdown	0.34
JoJo	0.26	0.23	-0.03
Gundam	0.26	0.20	-0.06
Bclover	0.22	0.18	-0.04
		AVERAGE	-0.04

Only Dragon Ball Super went up slightly in 18-34, and it and Kai only down slightly in total viewers. Everything else pretty much sucked big hairy ding dong.

As for retention:

Total Viewers
Show	People	Retention
DBS	1,020,000	N/A
DBZKFC	793,000	77.75%
JoJo	489,000	61.66%*
Gundam	410,000	83.84%
Bclover	361,000	88.05%
Adults 18-34
Show	Rating	Estimate	Retention
DBS	0.59	401,000	N/A
DBZKFC	0.40	272,000	67.80%
JoJo	0.30	204,000	75.00%*
Gundam	0.24	163,000	80.00%
Adults 18-49
Show	Rating	Estimate	Retention
DBS	0.47	603,000	N/A
DBZKFC	0.34	436,000	72.34%
JoJo	0.23	295,000	67.65%*
Gundam	0.20	256,000	86.96%
Bclover	0.18	231,000	90.00%
Adults 18-49
Show	Rank	Change
DBS	#7	-3
DBZKFC	#9	-4
JoJo	#20	-4
Gundam	#39	-20
Bclover	#52	-22

*Calculated by dividing the 12:30 slot number by the 11:30 slot number; i.e.: not a "pure" back-to-back retention percentage.

Boy oh boy. What the hell happened with 18-34?? The drop from DBZKFC to JoJo was over a whole hour, but somehow DBS to DBZKFC did even worse than that! Not the case with total viewers and 18-49: The drop from DBZKFC to JoJo was worse, as expected, but DBZKai still retained pretty badly. Once the 2nd through 4th shows bled viewers, Gundam and Black Clover actually retained pretty well. And of course everything dropped in the rankings, though Black Clover may be the crap pace-setter, as it has fallen from #15 on March 31st to #52 just 2 weeks later! Guess that's what being on an hour and a half later does for ya.

That's all for now, until SBD updates a little later on this afternoon!

Edited April 17, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[PokeNirvash]

That tears it, I'm never watching Toonami live again. DVR Theater, all the way!

[Daos]

Well we had a couple good weeks. But as I say every week... this lineup isn't exactly must watch TV. Any kind of competition murders it.

The big final fight of Kai doing mediocre is pretty depressing.

Ok 61 percent for Jojo... worst retention of any show ever?

Black Clover losing that many viewers after there's no viewers left is just..... bad. Really bad. 52? What a joke.

 

[Blatch]

1 hour ago, OwlChemist81 said:

It COULD be that FLCL is some sort of sacrificial lamb during the early part of the playoffs season, because later on FLCL Progressive won't be up against Finals games, since they occur on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays.

Nah. It's because FLCL Progressive premieres in six weeks and they're rerunning the original out of convenience before then. Stop overthinking this. 

11 minutes ago, Daos said:

Ok 61 percent for Jojo... worst retention of any show ever?

That's from DBZ Kai, so of course it's going to be lower. We won't know the real percentage until FLCL's numbers come out.

[OwlChemist81]

These aren't the true retention numbers for JoJo; that's what that asterisk means. The true retention will be how many viewers it retained from FLCL, which was a rerun, so we don't know that yet.

But that retention for what was SUPPOSED to be a hyped episode of DBZ Kai in 18-34 is indeed horrible. 67.8%, when the JoJo an hour later still had 75% of its 18-34 viewers! And those numbers won't be updated, since we'll never know how well FLCL did in 18-34.

[OwlChemist81]

SBD Updated: http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-saturday-cable-originals-network-finals-4-14-2018.html

"Adult Swim’s late-night line-up performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL at 0.47/0.34 compared to last week’s 0.48/0.40, FOOLY COOLY at 0.27/607K, JOJO’S BIZARRE ADVENTURE down 0.03 to 0.23, MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM down 0.06 to 0.20, BLACK CLOVER down 0.04 to 0.18, HUNTER X HUNTER down 0.04 to 0.18/347K, NARUTO down 0.04 to 0.17/334K, SPACE DANDY down 0.01 to 0.17/352K, COWBOY BEBOP down 0.03 to 0.16/341K, and GHOST IN THE SHELL down 0.03 to 0.16/326K." 

The rest of the night couldn't get out of the 300Ks, but at least it didn't get any worse than that. However, the average was a mere 489K, 15th so far for 2018, i.e.: DEAD LAST. And here are the retention figures for total viewers...

4/14/18 - Total Viewers
Show	Viewers	Retention
DBS	1,020,000	N/A
DBZKFC	793,000	77.7%
FLCL	607,000	76.5%
JoJo	489,000	80.6%
Gundam	410,000	83.8%
BClover	361,000	88.0%
HxH	347,000	96.1%
Shippuden	334,000	96.3%
Dandy	352,000	105.4%
Bebop	341,000	96.9%
GITS	326,000	95.6%

Dandy actually ended up retaining far better than any other show! And it turns out FLCL retained slightly worse than DBZKFC, though JoJo retained slightly better. We'll see how well everything retained in 18-49 a little later on, but here's what we know for now...

4/14/18 - Adults 18-49
Show	Viewers	Retention
DBS	0.47
DBZKFC	0.34	72.34%
FLCL	0.27	79.41%
JoJo	0.23	85.19%
Gundam	0.20	86.96%
BClover	0.18	90.00%
HxH	0.18	100.00%
Shippuden	0.17	94.44%
Dandy	0.17	100.00%
Bebop	0.16	94.12%
GITS	0.16	100.00%

I think sometimes the best boon for the block will be when DBZ Kai ends, and it's crazy to think about that since it WAS responsible for the highest-rated episode yet on the block 3 years ago. But it's clear DBS needs to lead-in to SOMETHING fresh in the 2nd half of 2018!

Edited April 17, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[PokeNirvash]

[sigh] At least the back half has strong retention...

[Ginguy]

Well, DBZKFCOU812 Buu'd itself didn't it?