1pooh4u Posted August 6 Author Share Posted August 6 As a nurse I thought you’d do more than to just dismiss syndromes that would in fact create an XY female https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/swyer-syndrome# https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1521693409001230 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190741/ And it should not disqualify them from competition 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gun Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 Yeah, sexual differentiation is an incredibly complex process, and there are all sorts of genetic and hormonal steps along the way that can go differently than "normal." Someone may very well have a particular set of sex chromosomes, but those genes don't wind up getting expressed properly. It works the other way too: there are cases of people who are physically male, were raised male from birth, and identify as male, but they happen to have two X chromosomes. And that's not even counting the specific conditions when women have one or three X chromosomes, or men have an extra X or Y chromosome. You can't just simplify this down to two binary conditions. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 6 Author Share Posted August 6 And none of those differences should mean they shouldn’t be allowed to identify as the gender assigned at birth even athletes. A woman with Swyer syndrome (XY) isn’t a biological male they’re a female with Swyer syndrome 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 6 Author Share Posted August 6 There actually is a transgender male boxer boxing against females that no one is demanding to fight with the men https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/08/05/hergie-bacyadan-paris-olympics-trans/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthor Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, 1pooh4u said: As a nurse I thought you’d know better than to just dismiss syndromes that would in fact create an XY female https://www.cancer.gov/publications/dictionaries/cancer-terms/def/swyer-syndrome# https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1521693409001230 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2190741/ And it should not disqualify them from competition As a nurse, I am qualified to wipe your ass and save your life, not counsel you on genetics. I did, however, mention that there were syndromes and disorders. Syndromes and disorders are not normal. They do not represent the vast majority of the population. One can wax poetic about atypical phenotypes and multiple X's, but unless one works in a relatively specialized clinical or research position, one may encounter maybe one or two individuals with a DSD in a lifetime. These people are the exception, not the rule. The rule is XX=female, XY=male. And the rule is necessary for us to survive as a species; I'm not running to Google, because I'm in my phone at 6%, but I can't recall any of the multiple X's or Swyer's syndrome being able to reproduce without intervention. I'm sure that you'll find an exception or two; it's been 40 years since I've had to think of this shit(and it was mostly fruit flies) and I only got a B- in it, but anyway...(Yeah, XXX can) In a world where so many people conflate sex with gender, it's like spitting on every biological woman who has fought and trained and struggled for her sport to say that some women have Y chromosomes, and should be allowed to to compete with women with XX chromosomes. In the current climate, where do you draw the line? Yeah, it's sad to deny someone their dream because of a genetic condition, but kids die from genetic conditions, too, and that's even sadder. The tools we have are crude - a testosterone level here, a cheek swab for DNA there. But they're what we've got. And at some point, a line has to be drawn. Maybe an independent diagnosis (like, from not the team doctor), maybe an ultrasound, I don't know. But saying that women with XY chromosomes can compete with women with XX chromosomes without any reservation or caveat is not a reasonable statement. Edited August 6 by mthor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthor Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, 1pooh4u said: There actually is a transgender male boxer boxing against females that no one is demanding to fight with the men https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/08/05/hergie-bacyadan-paris-olympics-trans/ This is why I don't watch the summer games anyways. Bring on the Jamaican bobsledders! Ooh! And the ski jumpers! The agony of defeat! Edited August 6 by mthor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpgamer Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 I mean.. honestly, genetics aside, it's not exactly like she's completely dominating in her field. Kinda feels like all the arguments would hold a lot more water if, due to whatever genetic expression, she had a clear and undeniable advantage over all the competition. As is, most arguments against her seem to not-so-subtly be (failing to) skirt around the "she looks like a dude" complaint. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 5 hours ago, mthor said: Biological female humans are not born with a Y chromosome. Biological female humans have two X chromosomes. Biological male humans have an X chromosome and a Y chromosome. I don't care how you live your life or what you call yourself, this is what it comes down to at the end of the day. Science matters. Yes, there are syndromes and disorders that can cause an ambiguous presentation. I'm not going to debate that. I'm in this thread for the Turkish dude and his cat. But for the love of God, I can't sit here and see somebody unironically say that just because a woman has a Y chromosome doesn't mean she isn't a woman, because biologically, that's exactly what it means. It means she's a biological man. Finally! I have internet. This is kind of a stupid take. Setting aside the fact that the biological process creates non standard iterations, you have no real reason to designate the gender of someone else. You don't treat a woman differently than a man because she's a woman, you address issues specific to her and use gender as way to guide a response. It's for that reason the medical community does, in fact, acknowledge that biological males and females are not singular genders. The problem is that gender isn't a "scientific" designation, it's a wholly social one. It's a way to classify human beings with those who share similar attributes so they can function as a social unit. A gay man doesn't need to be only amongst other gay men, but announcing himself as such allows him the opportunity to work with other gay men to solve functional issues. At the same time, he doesn't have the right to determine who is gay and who isn't; he only needs to know who is gay as a pretext to interact with them. This is all to say that a biological male can be a woman because the social concept of gender identifies that possibility. I'm not saying a bogus test by discredited and derelict boxing federation should be given any credence, just that it's irrelevant what a persons biological makeup is when determining who is or is not a woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 3 hours ago, mthor said: The tools we have are crude - a testosterone level here, a cheek swab for DNA there. But they're what we've got. And at some point, a line has to be drawn. Maybe an independent diagnosis (like, from not the team doctor), maybe an ultrasound, I don't know. But saying that women with XY chromosomes can compete with women with XX chromosomes without any reservation or caveat is not a reasonable statement. This speaks to my comments about the arbitrary nature of athletics. Theoretically, any human being should be able to compete against anyone in his or her species because sport doesn't just measure training, it also measures inherent gifts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 6 Author Share Posted August 6 7 hours ago, mthor said: As a nurse, I am qualified to wipe your ass and save your life, not counsel you on genetics. I did, however, mention that there were syndromes and disorders. Syndromes and disorders are not normal. They do not represent the vast majority of the population. One can wax poetic about atypical phenotypes and multiple X's, but unless one works in a relatively specialized clinical or research position, one may encounter maybe one or two individuals with a DSD in a lifetime. These people are the exception, not the rule. The rule is XX=female, XY=male. And the rule is necessary for us to survive as a species; I'm not running to Google, because I'm in my phone at 6%, but I can't recall any of the multiple X's or Swyer's syndrome being able to reproduce without intervention. I'm sure that you'll find an exception or two; it's been 40 years since I've had to think of this shit(and it was mostly fruit flies) and I only got a B- in it, but anyway...(Yeah, XXX can) In a world where so many people conflate sex with gender, it's like spitting on every biological woman who has fought and trained and struggled for her sport to say that some women have Y chromosomes, and should be allowed to to compete with women with XX chromosomes. In the current climate, where do you draw the line? Yeah, it's sad to deny someone their dream because of a genetic condition, but kids die from genetic conditions, too, and that's even sadder. The tools we have are crude - a testosterone level here, a cheek swab for DNA there. But they're what we've got. And at some point, a line has to be drawn. Maybe an independent diagnosis (like, from not the team doctor), maybe an ultrasound, I don't know. But saying that women with XY chromosomes can compete with women with XX chromosomes without any reservation or caveat is not a reasonable statement. You said the syndromes exist and dismissed those with them as practically irrelevant and doubled down on XY being a biological man and that assertion is absolute false. The two boxers in question never identified as men and if they do have Swyer Syndrome then they might not have went through puberty at all let alone a male puberty. Breaking down female anatomy down to the genetic level in order to participate in sports is ridiculous. No one stopped Tyson from boxing when he knocked out plenty of people in one punch. Like I said a million times no one stopped Phelps from swimming. The boxers in question only lived as women and they are exceptional athletes among elite athletes and to say they aren’t women enough when that’s the only gender they ever identified with since their anatomy is female, is a disgraceful shit take. and yes XY women can compete with XX women. That is a reasonable statement because they are in fact women and we are more than just a chromosome ETA I hear a lot of talk about how these women worked their entire lives and it’s not fair. To that I say the athletes in question also trained their entire lives and to exclude them insults all female athletes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 6 Author Share Posted August 6 5 hours ago, rpgamer said: I mean.. honestly, genetics aside, it's not exactly like she's completely dominating in her field. Kinda feels like all the arguments would hold a lot more water if, due to whatever genetic expression, she had a clear and undeniable advantage over all the competition. As is, most arguments against her seem to not-so-subtly be (failing to) skirt around the "she looks like a dude" complaint. Thank you! Exactly this. Khelif lost in Tokyo to a boxer from Ireland and her record was 9-5 when the controversy broke. Respectable but not unbeatable 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katt_goddess Posted August 6 Share Posted August 6 18 hours ago, 1pooh4u said: Those same upset Christians are now all experts in genetics, biology and gender studies now. Shenanigans declared. Those are all 'Woke' sciences. They are as likely to actually study any of those as they are to ask to borrow my copy of 'Elucidation of Necromancy (Lucidarium artis Nigromantice) ' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 7 Author Share Posted August 7 I’m starting to like the Olympics again but they gotta keep doin stuff like this 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixman124 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 On 8/6/2024 at 1:22 AM, mthor said: As a nurse, I am qualified to wipe your ass and save your life, not counsel you on genetics. I did, however, mention that there were syndromes and disorders. Syndromes and disorders are not normal. They do not represent the vast majority of the population. One can wax poetic about atypical phenotypes and multiple X's, but unless one works in a relatively specialized clinical or research position, one may encounter maybe one or two individuals with a DSD in a lifetime. These people are the exception, not the rule. The rule is XX=female, XY=male. And the rule is necessary for us to survive as a species; I'm not running to Google, because I'm in my phone at 6%, but I can't recall any of the multiple X's or Swyer's syndrome being able to reproduce without intervention. I'm sure that you'll find an exception or two; it's been 40 years since I've had to think of this shit(and it was mostly fruit flies) and I only got a B- in it, but anyway...(Yeah, XXX can) In a world where so many people conflate sex with gender, it's like spitting on every biological woman who has fought and trained and struggled for her sport to say that some women have Y chromosomes, and should be allowed to to compete with women with XX chromosomes. In the current climate, where do you draw the line? Yeah, it's sad to deny someone their dream because of a genetic condition, but kids die from genetic conditions, too, and that's even sadder. The tools we have are crude - a testosterone level here, a cheek swab for DNA there. But they're what we've got. And at some point, a line has to be drawn. Maybe an independent diagnosis (like, from not the team doctor), maybe an ultrasound, I don't know. But saying that women with XY chromosomes can compete with women with XX chromosomes without any reservation or caveat is not a reasonable statement. Should Michael Phelps have competed? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 The solution is for everyone to compete naked. As it should be. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixman124 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 2 minutes ago, naraku360 said: The solution is for everyone to compete naked. As it should be. It's how they used to do the Olympics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 46 minutes ago, matrixman124 said: It's how they used to do the Olympics Yeah... when it was a bunch of battle scarred dudes. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixman124 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 1 hour ago, scoobdog said: Yeah... when it was a bunch of battle scarred dudes. Regardless! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 7 Author Share Posted August 7 I’m pretty sure some of the Olympic events are meant to emulate how the Ancient Greeks were having sex. That horse thing and the uneven bars, wrestling definitely and the pole vault….well the world saw that one guy so you tell me 😆 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 7 Author Share Posted August 7 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 18 minutes ago, 1pooh4u said: I’m pretty sure some of the Olympic events are meant to emulate how the Ancient Greeks were having sex. That horse thing and the uneven bars, wrestling definitely and the pole vault….well the world saw that one guy so you tell me 😆 If you’re going to miss out on a medal, it better be because your dick is too big. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 Conservatives need a 1-to-1 confirmation on vaginas, but we want to be fair, so we gotta give them a floppy wiener for every hotdog holder. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 7 Author Share Posted August 7 https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/08/07/lin-yu-ting-boxer-fight-for-gold/74708169007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2024/08/05/imane-khelif-algerian-boxer-speaks-out/74669981007/ the Algerian and Taiwanese boxers are going for the gold in their respective weight classes. Both won by decision. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 7 Author Share Posted August 7 4 minutes ago, scoobdog said: If you’re going to miss out on a medal, it better be because your dick is too big. It’s like he won anyway 😆 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 3 minutes ago, scoobdog said: If you’re going to miss out on a medal, it better be because your dick is too big. Yeah. That's why I never got a medal. Kept tripping over it. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 7 Author Share Posted August 7 2 minutes ago, naraku360 said: Conservatives need a 1-to-1 confirmation on vaginas, but we want to be fair, so we gotta give them a floppy wiener for every hotdog holder. Conservatives definitely love their wieners 😆 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 8 minutes ago, naraku360 said: Yeah. That's why I never got a medal. Kept tripping over it. I got DQd because I accidentally slapped a dude in the face making the turn. I know he bitching because he jealous of my speed. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katt_goddess Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 18 minutes ago, naraku360 said: Yeah. That's why I never got a medal. Kept tripping over it. Me too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 My gigantic sized lady nuts always tripped me up at the Olympic Games 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 I like the Olympic triathlon swimmer who said he prepared himself for the filthy Seine by micro dosing E. coli and not washing his hands after using the bathroom 😆 https://slate.com/culture/2024/07/olympics-seine-dirty-triathlon-e-coli-seth-rider.html 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 hour ago, 1pooh4u said: My gigantic sized lady nuts always tripped me up at the Olympic Games Your nuts are as big as a whole lady?! A gigantic lady?!? gg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 2 hours ago, naraku360 said: Your nuts are as big as a whole lady?! A gigantic lady?!? gg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 2 hours ago, naraku360 said: Your nuts are as big as a whole lady?! A gigantic lady?!? gg Just call her Johanna Dangerously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discolé monade Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 4 hours ago, 1pooh4u said: I’m pretty sure some of the Olympic events are meant to emulate how the Ancient Greeks were having sex. That horse thing and the uneven bars, wrestling definitely and the pole vault….well the world saw that one guy so you tell me 😆 he would have cleared that darn bar, if it wasn't for that meddling knob. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 hour ago, scoobdog said: Just call her Johanda Dangerously. Right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
André Toulon Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 There's.... Olympic break dancing? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixman124 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 2 minutes ago, André Toulon said: There's.... Olympic break dancing? Yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 4 hours ago, André Toulon said: There's.... Olympic break dancing? I was today years old when my dumb white ass found out that it's called breaking and its apparently offensive to call it breakdancing because marketers or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
André Toulon Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 If this guy didn't make it, then none of you ever will 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discolé monade Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 that man had to have dislocated some joints. he just KNEW he was doing something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobdog Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 I mean, my name isn’t “gym” either, and “scoobnastics” sounds like something you’ld find on Motherless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 shut up gym 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discolé monade Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 1 hour ago, scoobdog said: I mean, my name isn’t “gym” either, and “scoobnastics” sounds like something you’ld find on Motherless. when i think of 'scoobnastics' 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasqueradeOverture Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 The real controversy is using Curry should be considered cheating. Fuck USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixman124 Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 (edited) Imane Khelif is suing for online harassment. Happy Hunting Edited August 11 by matrixman124 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discolé monade Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 1 hour ago, matrixman124 said: Imane Khelif is suing for online harassment. Happy Hunting she can start with drumpf. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixman124 Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 1 hour ago, discolé monade said: she can start with drumpf. Trump, Musk, Rowling, the list goes on 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 11 Author Share Posted August 11 15 hours ago, matrixman124 said: Imane Khelif is suing for online harassment. Happy Hunting Good I hope both gold medal boxers sue and the media too for their awful rage bait headlines 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 11 Author Share Posted August 11 The biggest controversy was that awful “breaking” routine to that awful fuckin music. It was awful and an insult to break dancing. Maybe an insult to all hip hop. Idk what is going on with me lately but this routine hit me in a way that made me wanna break my device like I really hope the other routines were true to the art and not this both hilarious and rage inducing routine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1pooh4u Posted August 11 Author Share Posted August 11 She has a phd in dance culture and that’s what she decided to do. Trying to find video but they’re all getting taken down cuz copyright or some other crap 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.