ITN: Israel

[Master-Debater131]

 

 

The WaPo has been a joke for a long time, but this one is really something else. Im not even convinced it isnt satire at this point. The WaPo may be trying to be the next Onion or Bee with headlines like this.

[discolé monade]

it's really sad how some people are reacting. it's the same circle jerk with 'you people'. you refuse, absolutely refuse to actually look up anything you post; as long as the snippet fits your agenda. 

you are the joke. how you can be pleased with loss of life. this war is none of your business. as it's not mine. but putting out false information, is a discredit for whatever your agenda is. 

the monkey cage - We are a group of political scientists from universities around the country. We study all manner of domestic and international politics. You can read more about our contributors here.

[naraku360]

5 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

All this pearl clutching by people over the successful hostage rescue really says a lot.

There's also the rather inconvenient fact that the easiest way to not get killed like this is to not hold hostages in your house, not fight against rescuers, and the biggest one of all, not taking hostages in the first place.

 

None of this addresses the simple fact that the IDF has killed significantly more people they allegedly want to save, and you consider that a fantastic job.

[naraku360]

Double post.

Edited June 11 by naraku360

[naraku360]

4 hours ago, discolé monade said:

it's really sad how some people are reacting. it's the same circle jerk with 'you people'. you refuse, absolutely refuse to actually look up anything you post; as long as the snippet fits your agenda. 

you are the joke. how you can be pleased with loss of life. this war is none of your business. as it's not mine. but putting out false information, is a discredit for whatever your agenda is. 

the monkey cage - We are a group of political scientists from universities around the country. We study all manner of domestic and international politics. You can read more about our contributors here.

You just don't get it. The hostages wouldn't have died if they weren't hostages in the first place!

Spoiler

She's such a fucking dumbass. No shit Sherlock, brilliant deduction. They also wouldn't be dead if the IDF didn't kill them.

 

[naraku360]

MD's genius reasoning ability be like

Incredible insight. The hostages wouldn't be dead if they weren't hostages in the first place. Who could've figured out such a profound observation?!

Pretty sure they also wouldn't be dead if they hadn't been killed, dipshit.

[katt_goddess]

6 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

All this pearl clutching by people over the successful hostage rescue really says a lot.

There's also the rather inconvenient fact that the easiest way to not get killed like this is to not hold hostages in your house, not fight against rescuers, and the biggest one of all, not taking hostages in the first place.

 

You seem to be skipping completely over how the IDF also killed 3 hostages while blowing the hell out of over 200 civilians with an additional 400 wounded. By that account, they only technically rescued 1 hostage since the other three were paid for by the blood of the three the IDF themselves murdered at the exact same time.  

And you also seem to be skipping over how maybe, just maybe, someone is being forced to play jailer because THEIR family members just happen to be 'somewhere'. You seem to be completely oblivious to something that is so well known its used in movies as a trope - the 'I'm a villain because they have my [ insert family member here ]'. 

[PenguinBoss]

MD is right, we should stop pearl clutching by pointing out Israeli war crimes.

[naraku360]

2 hours ago, PenguinBoss said:

MD is right, we should stop pearl clutching by pointing out Israeli war crimes.

Did..... you just.... say a bad thing about Israel....?

[PenguinBoss]

Pictured here: Pearl Clutching

[Master-Debater131]

Gaza Chief’s Brutal Calculation: Civilian Bloodshed Will Help Hamas

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/gaza-chiefs-brutal-calculation-civilian-bloodshed-will-help-hamas-626720e7?mod=hp_lead_pos1

For months, Yahya Sinwar has resisted pressure to cut a ceasefire-and-hostages deal with Israel. Behind his decision, messages the Hamas military leader in Gaza has sent to mediators show, is a calculation that more fighting—and more Palestinian civilian deaths—work to his advantage.

“We have the Israelis right where we want them,” Sinwar said in a recent message to Hamas officials seeking to broker an agreement with Qatari and Egyptian officials."

"In dozens of messages—reviewed by The Wall Street Journal—that Sinwar has transmitted to cease-fire negotiators, Hamas compatriots outside Gaza and others, he’s shown a cold disregard for human life and made clear he believes Israel has more to lose from the war than Hamas. The messages were shared by multiple people with differing views of Sinwar."

 

I continue to be amazed that Hamas openly tells us their strategy is to increase civilian deaths in order to put pressure on Israel, and idiots in the West continue to fall for it.

Maybe not even fall for it at this point. This strategy is so well documented that its hard to give anyone the benefit of the doubt when they continue to push Hamas propaganda. And thats exactly what people who use the Hamas casualty numbers are doing, pushing Hamas propaganda numbers.

Edited June 12 by Master-Debater131

[1pooh4u]

It is kind of telling, and I hate to agree with MD here, that people want to blame only Israel for the deaths which occurred during a mission to rescue Israeli hostages.  Hamas absolutely shares the blame. The hostages were kept in the homes of civilians. Israel didn’t do that. Hamas did. 

[Master-Debater131]

 

 

 

[discolé monade]

1 hour ago, 1pooh4u said:

It is kind of telling, and I hate to agree with MD here, that people want to blame only Israel for the deaths which occurred during a mission to rescue Israeli hostages.  Hamas absolutely shares the blame. The hostages were kept in the homes of civilians. Israel didn’t do that. Hamas did. 

i'm not blaming. it takes 2 sides. this has been a forever war. different names, same reasoning (or aligned). 

i believe the country has the absolute right to defend itself. what i find absolutely fucking gross about md, is how fucking gleefully gross she is about loss of life. 

fuck that. 

[1pooh4u]

1 hour ago, discolé monade said:

i'm not blaming. it takes 2 sides. this has been a forever war. different names, same reasoning (or aligned). 

i believe the country has the absolute right to defend itself. what i find absolutely fucking gross about md, is how fucking gleefully gross she is about loss of life. 

fuck that. 

A lot of the discourse is coming across as though Israel has all the responsibility and Hamas has none.  In this instance what was Israel to do?  Allow the hostages to just stay in Gaza cuz Hamas forces civilians to hide them?

 I hate Hamas for putting civilians in a deadly situation and I hate Netanyahu and the military which has no problem killing them. 

[discolé monade]

3 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

A lot of the discourse is coming across as though Israel has all the responsibility and Hamas has none.  In this instance what was Israel to do?  Allow the hostages to just stay in Gaza cuz Hamas forces civilians to hide them?

 I hate Hamas for putting civilians in a deadly situation and I hate Netanyahu and the military which has no problem killing them. 

i don't know what israel could have done other than not push the refugess into the area they plan to raid? i don't know. 

what i do know is,  and as i said before, cheering the death of civilians (children) that are nothing but pawns is fucking gross. 

i said, what i said. 

[1pooh4u]

And I said what I said because it needed to be said 

[discolé monade]

1 minute ago, 1pooh4u said:

And I said what I said because it needed to be said 

well, what i said was pretty much you saying what you said about saying things that needed to be said. 

[1pooh4u]

4 minutes ago, discolé monade said:

well, what i said was pretty much you saying what you said about saying things that needed to be said. 

lol I am too high for this.

I guess we need a thread for how the US is reacting to events cuz it’s been fucked up out there. Like why are people vandalizing the head of the Jewish museum’s home. Why are they marking her home with the inverted red triangle? Marking her as an Israeli military target? 

[discolé monade]

1 hour ago, 1pooh4u said:

lol I am too high for this.

I guess we need a thread for how the US is reacting to events cuz it’s been fucked up out there. Like why are people vandalizing the head of the Jewish museum’s home. Why are they marking her home with the inverted red triangle? Marking her as an Israeli military target? 

mob mentality. 

angry country. 

piss poor leadership. 

no, absolutely no communication

take your pick. 

it's gross. 

[naraku360]

9 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

It is kind of telling, and I hate to agree with MD here, that people want to blame only Israel for the deaths which occurred during a mission to rescue Israeli hostages.  Hamas absolutely shares the blame. The hostages were kept in the homes of civilians. Israel didn’t do that. Hamas did. 

Yes, they share the blame. MD thinks they're blameless, which is where I take issue.

[PenguinBoss]

10 hours ago, 1pooh4u said:

It is kind of telling, and I hate to agree with MD here, that people want to blame only Israel for the deaths which occurred during a mission to rescue Israeli hostages.  Hamas absolutely shares the blame. The hostages were kept in the homes of civilians. Israel didn’t do that. Hamas did. 

The issue is that MD posts stuff like a four hostage rescue while conveniently leaving out Israel killed dozens of innocents to do it.

If you were to solely read MD's posts, you'd think the Israelis are humanitarians.

[scoobdog]

On 6/11/2024 at 6:25 AM, naraku360 said:

Well, yeah, I just think the "Keep up the fantastic job IDF! Just amazing work," was in remarkably poor taste, even by the standards of someone as grotesque as MD.

Netanyahu doesn't care about saving people and he's made that publicly known. I'm being critical of MD only hearing one side of the doublespeak to avoid acknowledgment of how horrible the other is, not to suggest saving 4 people wasn't worth doing. He would've been just as satisfied if he saved none of them, MD knows he would've had no qualms killing all the hostages, and she would've huffed his ass for the exact same incident had none survived since all she cares about is indiscriminate carnage.

I posted in the other thread and deleted it.

It's not just in poor taste, it's nothing to celebrate unless you're the family member of one of the rescued.  You don't get credit for doing something after you created the mess in the first place.

On 6/12/2024 at 8:45 AM, 1pooh4u said:

It is kind of telling, and I hate to agree with MD here, that people want to blame only Israel for the deaths which occurred during a mission to rescue Israeli hostages.  Hamas absolutely shares the blame. The hostages were kept in the homes of civilians. Israel didn’t do that. Hamas did. 

Here's the thing.... we probably wouldn't be even discussing this if this rescue mission had happened earlier in the campaign.

There's a big difference between killing civilians in the process of pulling hostages out of their homes and killing civilians to blow up a tunnel beneath their homes.  I'm not suggesting that Israel should have framed their operations in human terms to justify their actions, but, at the same time, a lot of the international condemnation centers on how Israel has gone about presenting their deconstruction of Hamas and its infrastructure.  Unfeeling as it might sound, we as international observers can't offer much criticism if Israel had said "We had intel that there were hostages in this tunnel, so we razed the homes on top of it to get access and discovered, unfortunately, there were no hostages there to rescue."  Of course, after one or two of these failed operations, that rationale can be nearly as damaging.

Israel has no obligation to consider civilian casualties when there is reasonable assurance that what they're doing is to achieve a legitimate goal.  Netanyahu opened himself up to taking unearned blame in this situation by not publicly prioritizing hostage rescue at the beginning of the operation instead of a quixotic quest to destroy Hamas.  Israel is getting blame now because people are as apt to consider the rescue as a happy coincidence in the quest to ravage Rafah as they are a legitimate attempt of find hostages.  Not only is that unfair, it's emblematic of how Israel botched a mandate to rescue it's lost citizens and protect itself in the process.

[scoobdog]

16 hours ago, PenguinBoss said:

The issue is that MD posts stuff like a four hostage rescue while conveniently leaving out Israel killed dozens of innocents to do it.

If you were to solely read MD's posts, you'd think the Israelis are humanitarians.

Not picking on your post or disagreeing with your analysis of MD.

Another part of the problem is that we're so invested in the military action itself we've lost sight of who the victims are.  This whole time, the families of the hostages have been equally critical of the government and a lot of their anguish gets drowned out by understandable horror that continues to unfold.  It's really hard to acknowledge  the families who, through no fault of their own, deserve to be happy that their loved ones returned home and have every right to be thankful for the soldiers who executed the raid.  We still have to because those families being whole is necessary for this conflict to end.

[Master-Debater131]

Dont be surprised if we see activity really pick up in southern Gaza in the coming days.

Sounds like the rescued hostages have given first hand accounts of tunnels, as well as seeing Sinwar surrounded by other hostages in these tunnels. If true, then the IDF is likely going to ramp up pressure to get to these tunnels and rescue the remaining hostages and get Sinwar.

 

[scoobdog]

At this point, everything Israel does better result in the rescue of hostages or else.

[katt_goddess]

Netanyahu was always going to keep bombing civilian-heavy areas flat. It doesn't matter what is being 'reported' because as long as people are being herded into 'safe' zones, there's a plan to raze the area. 

[Master-Debater131]

 

[PenguinBoss]

Something tells me the masks might give them away, unless that's hot in Gaza right now.

[stilgar]

Go fuck yourself md and your shitty propaganda you keep posting here. You add less to this conversation than I do and most of what I most is telling people like you how terrible you are and how you should fuck right off.

[scoobdog]

7 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

 

Given they'll probably take out a two man mortar position with a truck mounted rocket, there most certainly will be a massacre of civilians.  And for what?

[Master-Debater131]

Really glad we spent all that money so Biden could try and win Michigan.

[naraku360]

27 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Really glad we spent all that money so Biden could try and win Michigan.

I wasted 3 minutes trying to figure out what the tweet has to do with your statement. You owe me the time it took to read that, ponder it, realize it's almost certainly stupid. Pay up, dummy.

 

[katt_goddess]

2 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Really glad we spent all that money so Biden could try and win Michigan.

Millions upon millions upon millions of taxpayer dollars were spent so a fat lard could go golfing every week at his own personal resorts. We the taxpayer still get the bills for his 'staycations' due to him charging the shit out of having the Secret Service around and he gets to set the rates without limits. 

Which would YOU prefer taxpayer funds go towards - attempts to get food and medical supplies into a war zone or a fat lard's new fleet of golf carts with the usual banquet table of Big Macs on stand-by?

[stilgar]

9 hours ago, katt_goddess said:

Millions upon millions upon millions of taxpayer dollars were spent so a fat lard could go golfing every week at his own personal resorts. We the taxpayer still get the bills for his 'staycations' due to him charging the shit out of having the Secret Service around and he gets to set the rates without limits. 

Which would YOU prefer taxpayer funds go towards - attempts to get food and medical supplies into a war zone or a fat lard's new fleet of golf carts with the usual banquet table of Big Macs on stand-by?

You know what she would prefer. We all know.

[katt_goddess]

11 hours ago, stilgar said:

You know what she would prefer. We all know.

As long as the question is posed and she can't/won't answer it without seeming to step on her own head in the process, the question remains a Sword of Damocles hanging in the thread.