after Toonami's Edit of the second fire force Opening

[CountFrylock]

I'm reminded how i miss the days when tv shows could have intro's that weren't just a couple seconds long....all to just have an ungodly amount of commercials

main reason why most action shows i see on television don't even have an intro....

[Daos]

If it wasn't for Toonami commercials I wouldn't have built my house out of hot pockets. Show some respect.

[Sketch]

On 12/14/2019 at 11:58 PM, Daos said:

If it wasn't for Toonami commercials I wouldn't have built my house out of hot pockets. Show some respect.

Is your house appropriately both mouth burning hot in some parts and also ice cold in other parts?

[Daos]

17 hours ago, Sketch said:

Is your house appropriately both mouth burning hot in some parts and also ice cold in other parts?

You've been in my house... you're going to jail.

[Sketch]

10 hours ago, Daos said:

You've been in my house... you're going to jail.

I’m just a repair man. You let me in.

[ben0119]

On 12/14/2019 at 11:53 PM, CountFrylock said:

I'm reminded how i miss the days when tv shows could have intro's that weren't just a couple seconds long....all to just have an ungodly amount of commercials

main reason why most action shows i see on television don't even have an intro....

The skipped and shortened intros suck, and like you said, some of them even originally that way, for some American shows, but I'd rather have more commercials than those mostly godawful music videos DeMarco airs.

[EmpressAngel]

It's either short OPs or cutting content from the actual episodes. Literally 10 seconds on youtube will get you a show's regular OP, the full version, 20 fan mixes that extend it out 5-10 minutes and are of wildly differing quality, English-translated covers,  8bit remix, videos of the song played on various instruments, and a Space Jam remix. You're not actually missing out on much.

[Top Gun]

COME ON AND SLAM

AND WELCOME TO THE JAM

[Jman]

The whole idea is that it’s supposed to get you hyped for the show.  I get airtime restrictions but that’s another argument for On Demand.

I mean, Star Blazers 2199 works just a bit better because of its opening -

 

[CountFrylock]

i mean Fire Force's Second Opening(Cut)doesn't get anyone hyped at all...just when it's about to

 

it just stops....what changed that suddenly intro's either have to be super short or not exist at all?

are networks in such big trouble that they need a million commercials?

Edited December 19, 2019 by CountFrylock

[Sketch]

2 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

i mean Fire Force's Second Opening(Cut)doesn't get anyone hyped at all...just when it's about to

 

it just stops....what changed that suddenly intro's either have to be super short or not exist at all?

are networks in such big trouble that they need a million commercials?

Adult Swim tends to run shows that are 23 mins or less per half hour. Many anime run 24-25 mins in length. They run anime with shortened OPs and EDs so they can have at least 6 minutes of ad space per half hour not counting their own bumpers and promos. One major change from when AS was airing full OPs and only trimming EDs was ASA had minimal packaging. Toonami bumpers take up about 40 seconds per half hour so even with trimmed OPs and EDs a 22:30 episode of Fire Force fills 23:10 give or take and longer shows with Toonami bumps can end up being 24 mins or a bit longer.

Shippuden runs short due to having no opening on Toonami so that’s usually where the occasional music video will air.

So I ask you, would you prefer anime to usually have full OPs at the cost of any kind of Toonami packaging with TOM and Sara? Because that’s probably the only feasible trade-off due to the run time. Aside from pulling an Ani-Monday and cutting episode content instead of the OPs.

And if you think that’s bowing down to commercial overlords, the average 60 minute basic cable show runs 41-43 mins. That’s 17-19 mins of commercials. It used to be 44-45 mins and once was even 50 mins. Ad space became much more important over the years. So the AS average of only 14-16 mins of commercials per hour is notably less intrusive, especially because they only do 1 break in the middle of a show and 1 break between shows as opposed to 3-4 breaks.

[CountFrylock]

advertising has gotten a bit out of hand on television is all I'm saying....to the point where it feels like the ads themselves are the focus with how long the breaks seem to be for most channels

 

 

[Sketch]

And by comparison, AS shoves less ads down our throats compared to many. It’s not gonna get better though.

[Jman]

This is the issue watching stuff on cable.  It’s not going to change given the format.  

[The1gairon]

5 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

advertising has gotten a bit out of hand on television is all I'm saying....to the point where it feels like the ads themselves are the focus with how long the breaks seem to be for most channels

 

 

It's almost to the point where commercials take up 1/3 of everything on TV. Western shows have already been produced to accomodate the 22-minute-long timeslot, but of course anime is created for the Japanese market, which has different TV standards.

[ben0119]

On 12/18/2019 at 1:49 AM, EmpressAngel said:

It's either short OPs or cutting content from the actual episodes. Literally 10 seconds on youtube will get you a show's regular OP, the full version, 20 fan mixes that extend it out 5-10 minutes and are of wildly differing quality, English-translated covers,  8bit remix, videos of the song played on various instruments, and a Space Jam remix. You're not actually missing out on much.

I can't remember if it was on Ask.fm or twitter Twitter and don't have the link handy, but DeMarco claimed that they have to edit the OPs and EDs to fit in the Toonami packaging, and I asked him why ASA did the same thing when they had no Toonami packaging and he said something along the lines of he doesn't know but that is why Toonami edits the OPs and Ed's and this is how we do things blah blah blah.  Sounds like bullshit to me, though.

But what about the casuals that don't go on YouTube?  They'll never hear the full song.

[CountFrylock]

On 12/19/2019 at 9:45 AM, elfie said:

It's almost to the point where commercials take up 1/3 of everything on TV. Western shows have already been produced to accomodate the 22-minute-long timeslot, but of course anime is created for the Japanese market, which has different TV standards.

sucks because many OP's lose their hype when it's just a few seconds

[ben0119]

The edit to the Black Clover OP is the worst.  They just play the build and never get to the actual song.  It would have made much more sense to cut the build and just go straight to the song itself.

 

[EmpressAngel]

1 hour ago, ben0119 said:

But what about the casuals that don't go on YouTube?  They'll never hear the full song.

The OP and ED for everything still gets played in full whenever they switch to a new one, so it's a moot point. I genuinely cannot imagine someone being enough of a nerd to watch Toonami on a weekly basis but also too computer illiterate to use Youtube. Like, even my 60-year old dad who types exclusively with his index fingers and doesn't even know what Youtube is can figure out that if he types a video he wants into Google, the magic internet machine will take him right to it.

[Sketch]

5 hours ago, ben0119 said:

I can't remember if it was on Ask.fm or twitter Twitter and don't have the link handy, but DeMarco claimed that they have to edit the OPs and EDs to fit in the Toonami packaging, and I asked him why ASA did the same thing when they had no Toonami packaging and he said something along the lines of he doesn't know but that is why Toonami edits the OPs and Ed's and this is how we do things blah blah blah.  Sounds like bullshit to me, though.

But what about the casuals that don't go on YouTube?  They'll never hear the full song.

It's not like 1:30 of the song is the full song either. It's just a slightly longer TV edit, albeit one done with much more care toward matching the visuals of the opening sequence.

They simply cannot air the full length openings for every show every week so they compromise and run the new OPs once in full and otherwise only the first show of the night and some rare contractual exceptions get to keep their full openings. Why are we still talking about this at the end of 20 freak'n 19? It's been many years since Toonami came back in May of 2012. Freak'n Netflix and some other streaming services try to make people skip OPs and EDs entirely. At least Toonami keeps what they can.

[The1gairon]

7 hours ago, ben0119 said:

I can't remember if it was on Ask.fm or twitter Twitter and don't have the link handy, but DeMarco claimed that they have to edit the OPs and EDs to fit in the Toonami packaging, and I asked him why ASA did the same thing when they had no Toonami packaging and he said something along the lines of he doesn't know but that is why Toonami edits the OPs and Ed's and this is how we do things blah blah blah.  Sounds like bullshit to me, though.

But what about the casuals that don't go on YouTube?  They'll never hear the full song.

Because ASA didn't have TOM, or Sara, or anything else in bumps that take up more of the airtime.

[OwlChemist81]

I hate that we couldn't get the full version of the 2nd OP of Dr. Stone last night instead of whatever that random 4:3 non-Toonami bullshit [as] shoehorned into the marathon last night was supposed to be!

[CountFrylock]

2 hours ago, OwlChemist81 said:

I hate that we couldn't get the full version of the 2nd OP of Dr. Stone last night instead of whatever that random 4:3 non-Toonami bullshit [as] shoehorned into the marathon last night was supposed to be!

makes me think adultswim just really thinks the toonami audience likes that weird crap....

[ben0119]

On 12/29/2019 at 3:29 AM, EmpressAngel said:

The OP and ED for everything still gets played in full whenever they switch to a new one, so it's a moot point. I genuinely cannot imagine someone being enough of a nerd to watch Toonami on a weekly basis but also too computer illiterate to use Youtube. Like, even my 60-year old dad who types exclusively with his index fingers and doesn't even know what Youtube is can figure out that if he types a video he wants into Google, the magic internet machine will take him right to it.

I think that hasn't happened a few times.  And the Shippuden OPs only get played the one time, but nobody cares about that.  The Naruto themes are mostly bad anyway.  Maybe not that they are computer illiterate, but they wouldn't know what to look up, since the band and song name don't always get labeled onscreen, and they may not know which OP it was, so just typing in the show name and OP followed by a number may not get them what they are looking for, and they could also end up with spoilers if they happen upon an OP from later in the show with the visuals for whatever later arc.  Really it is risky business when it comes to Youtubing or Googling any particular anime in general when it comes to spoilers.  That's why I don't really watch any anime reviewers or anime video content because they are full of spoilers and usually no warnings given either, because they'll casually make a comparison to some random show, or they have to do those stupid lists for a bunch of shows and a few of them you wouldn't have seen.  Also a risk for looking up the porn too lol.  They also may have crappy internet.  Or they might not decide to look up the OPs and EDs in the first place.

[ben0119]

On 12/29/2019 at 7:33 AM, Sketch said:

It's not like 1:30 of the song is the full song either. It's just a slightly longer TV edit, albeit one done with much more care toward matching the visuals of the opening sequence.

They simply cannot air the full length openings for every show every week so they compromise and run the new OPs once in full and otherwise only the first show of the night and some rare contractual exceptions get to keep their full openings. Why are we still talking about this at the end of 20 freak'n 19? It's been many years since Toonami came back in May of 2012. Freak'n Netflix and some other streaming services try to make people skip OPs and EDs entirely. At least Toonami keeps what they can.

Are you talking about "TV size?"  No one ever claimed the songs that play during the OP are the full song.  That's also a way to sell CDs and MP3s, etc.  And it doesn't make sense to devote 2-4 minutes to a song anyway.  Also seems that Japanese songs are longer in general.  Not sure what's up with that.

As I mentioned before some songs never got to play through full the first time.  Some of the songs also have crappy edits.  Toonami are supposed to be the editing masters, so you think they could do better. And if they aren't doing it, and if Demarco cares so much about quality as he claims, he should request that the licensors deliver better edits of the songs.  The Black Clover one doesn't even get to the actual song and is just the build.  That's just pure stupidity that they would edit it like that, whoever is responsible.  The skipping thing is annoying.  There doesn't seem to be a way to make that box not appear on Disney Plus, either.

We're talking about it because countfrylock made a thread... so naturally everyone else is going to come in and bitch about it too.

Edited December 31, 2019 by ben0119

[ben0119]

On 12/29/2019 at 9:09 AM, elfie said:

Because ASA didn't have TOM, or Sara, or anything else in bumps that take up more of the airtime.

As I said, they edited the OPs and EDs too.  I saw in a post from Sketchor that he said ASA gave more time to them than Toonami does, but I really can't remember that well.  I know for InuYasha they only played the ED, I think in full, and didn't play the OP at all.  So I didn't even hear the OPs until someone from the old boards sent me some CDs of them.  Not sure how much later it was I saw the actual visuals.  But Youtube either didn't exist or would've been in its infancy then.  I certainly don't remember any easy ways to hear/see themes if you didn't buy the shows on home video back then.  Maybe fan sites.  A lot of those were just midi versions though.  Maybe because of the bandwidth back then?

Something else I just remembered.  You could see it as the years wore on, shows that had their full OPs and EDs played at first, or at least longer cuts, got cut down more and more over the years, fast-forwarded, etc.  I remember this with Bebop and Big O.  And that was before Toonami ever came around.

The point is, ASA had no Tom or Sara or anything, but they still edited stuff.  The reason given was always commercials.  So for Demarco to claim it's because of the Toonami packaging doesn't make sense.  Maybe it is true that Toonami cuts more than ASA does, but it doesn't seem that different to me.  But I'm sure someone out there has done a thorough examination.

[CountFrylock]

and it's always for commercials that don't seem to fit being anywhere near toonami....Yup Here's some condom commercials during MHA

or telling you to go out and buy some food from a place that has long since closed since ya know this is An Insomniac's block

....all that aside it really feels like the commercials are the show and the show is just a side-story when things have to be drastically cut down just so you can have a lot more commercial time

all for commercials that just act like we're the standard adult swim viewing audience who will just buy random crap in the middle of the night because we're all on drugs apparently....

 

I Wouldn't be surprised if adultswim thinks rick and morty fans are the majority of toonami fans and that they can be as weird or strange as they want because hey our acid tripping fans are the same as our anime loving fans

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2019 by CountFrylock

[The1gairon]

Believe it or not, advertisers think only college-age horny stoners are in front of cable TV at 3 in the morning.

[Top Gun]

OK Boomers

[QueenoftheDorks]

I mean these days anime OPs/EDs exist to sell records in addition to listing credits, but since you can't buy any of those albums here... eh. They could always go back to cutting them out completely.

[PokeNirvash]

1 hour ago, Top Gun said:

OK Boomers

Not sure if ironic or genuine.

[Top Gun]

Profoundly serious.  People complaining about OPs/EDs getting edited for time...in 2019.  Just...why.

[PokeNirvash]

Fair reasoning, but the fact that you chose the "OK Boomer" meme of all things to say in response to that... There had to be at least a little bit of irony in there.

Edited January 1, 2020 by PokeNirvash

[The1gairon]

12 hours ago, Top Gun said:

Profoundly serious.  People complaining about OPs/EDs getting edited for time...in 2019.  Just...why.

Boomers are in their damn 70's. I'm less than half that. I'm not speaking for myself, I am speaking about those in control of what is advertised on the block.

[CountFrylock]

On 12/31/2019 at 10:22 AM, elfie said:

Believe it or not, advertisers think only college-age horny stoners are in front of cable TV at 3 in the morning.

they'd probably be surprised that the toonami block isn't just a bunch of acid trip visuals with pink floyd music blaring  in the background

 

they probably just think toonami is more of the same adultswim brand stuff

 

that's the thing   Random Weird Shows that just exist to be bizarre and stupid has been Adultswim's Identity for a long time now so I Wouldn't be surprised if this kind of advertising took hold because that's the way they presented themselves to the public

as Quirky And silly shows that probably involved a lot of drugs

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by CountFrylock

[CountFrylock]

19 hours ago, Top Gun said:

Profoundly serious.  People complaining about OPs/EDs getting edited for time...in 2019.  Just...why.

good themes get you hyped up for the show and when it's edited to end before the theme truly begins it kills some of that hype-build up

it also doesn't help that many edits feel like they didn't care if the edit was terrible or not....as long as it gave enough time for a dozen ads from the truth psa group  that's good enough

[Top Gun]

3 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

good themes get you hyped up for the show and when it's edited to end before the theme truly begins it kills some of that hype-build up

it also doesn't help that many edits feel like they didn't care if the edit was terrible or not....as long as it gave enough time for a dozen ads from the truth psa group  that's good enough

If you need some generic J-pop to get "hyped" for a series, then you're probably not enjoying the series in the first place.

Again, as angel pointed out, YouTube.  If you can't manage to find a show's full  opening there, you shouldn't be allowed to use the Internet in the first place.

It's either they cut the songs down, or they cut down the actual show like SyFy did.  I know which one I prefer.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Top Gun

[PokeNirvash]

Cutting show content sucks, yeah, but it made my hypothetical edit lists for SyFy anime broadcasts way more fun than when I did them for the [as] equivalent (barring my Scarface-style Black Lagoon edit lists).

The only trouble was trying to fit the timeslot without making the final product look too incomprehensible. My earliest attempts at it, while under the impression that content was cut only between commercial breaks, resulted in many an Elfen Lied episode going way over 21 minutes, 51 seconds.

Edited January 2, 2020 by PokeNirvash

[EmpressAngel]

3 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

good themes get you hyped up for the show and when it's edited to end before the theme truly begins it kills some of that hype-build up

Weird how I can skip the OP almost every damn time I watch a show on my own and feel literally nothing has changed except that extra 90 seconds I gain.

[Daos]

45 minutes ago, EmpressAngel said:

Weird how I can skip the OP almost every damn time I watch a show on my own and feel literally nothing has changed except that extra 90 seconds I gain.

You can do that????

 

[CountFrylock]

On 1/1/2020 at 6:41 PM, Top Gun said:

If you need some generic J-pop to get "hyped" for a series, then you're probably not enjoying the series in the first place.

Again, as angel pointed out, YouTube.  If you can't manage to find a show's full  opening there, you shouldn't be allowed to use the Internet in the first place.

It's either they cut the songs down, or they cut down the actual show like SyFy did.  I know which one I prefer.

Fire Force's Second OP is J-Pop? 0_o

[DangerMouse]

On 12/19/2019 at 4:42 AM, Sketch said:

So the AS average of only 14-16 mins of commercials per hour is notably less intrusive, especially because they only do 1 break in the middle of a show and 1 break between shows as opposed to 3-4 breaks.

I love it so much that they still do only one commercial break in the middle of the shows. So much better than multiple breaks and lets you get drawn into the episodes instead of getting taken out of it every 5 minutes.

Edited January 5, 2020 by DangerMouse

[CountFrylock]

2 hours ago, DangerMouse said:

I love it so much that they still do only one commercial break in the middle of the shows. So much better than multiple breaks and lets you get drawn into the episodes instead of getting taken out of it every 5 minutes.

i do often wonder if the commercials are the real shows and the shows are the commercials on most networks

[Sketch]

Ya know I was regaling how ASA aired openings back in the day with my buddy Duelist and actually it was very inconsistent.

They kept the full openings to very few shows overall, especially early on. This is what we could remember.

Cowboy Bebop - Full OP obviously

Yu Yu Hakusho - Full OP sometimes, custom ASA opening other times

Pilot Candidate - Full OP

Gundam 0083 - No OP

Outlaw Star - Full OP restored from the Toonami tapes

Tenchi Muyo - Full OP restored from the Toonami tapes

Mobile Suit Gundam - No OP, as I recall the DVD release opted to use the Toonami intro so either that aired on ASA, they made something else or there was no intro aside from an ASA bump

InuYasha - Full OPs for a while at least, I feel like it was inconsistent but I honestly don't remember and InuYasha was airing more often than any other show so they probably ditched the full OPs at some point

Lupin the 3rd Part 2 - Full OP rarely

Trigun - No OP I think

Reign the Conqueror - Full OP I think

Blue Gender - No OP

FLCL - Full ED, it has no OP to begin with

Witch Hunter Robin - No OP

Kikaider - No OP

The Big O - At least two OPs aired but eventually they stopped airing the OPs and just did a title card

Case Closed - Shortened OP

Fullmetal Alchemist - Ready Steady Go and one other OP aired in full as I recall

Ghost in the Shell: SAC - Full OPs

Samurai Champloo - Full OP

Paranoia Agent - Full OP

Neon Genesis Evangelion - Full OP

s.Cry.ed - Full OP I think? I'm pretty sure it had the full OP on Adult Swim video on demand at least

Eureka 7 - Shortened OPs

Bleach - Full OPs (as I recall Bleach cut extra skit segments which allowed it to keep a shorter run time)

Trinity Blood - Shortened OP

Shin Chan - Very shortened OP, if you can even consider it that

Death Note - Full OPs I think

Code Geass - Shortened OPs

Moribito - Shortened OP

Blood+ - Shortened OPs maybe?

Kekaishi - Shortened OPs

FMA Brotherhood - Shortened OPs (around 50 seconds)

Durarara - Shortened OP (around 50 seconds)

So the long of the short is, ASA was not the least bit consistent with how they presented shows. There was a time when they did Toonami-style custom intros but phased those out for more generalized bumps. Shows that were allowed to keep full OPs and just have shortened EDs usually had shorter run times to begin with or cut out other extras bits that were neither part of the episode nor part of the OP or ED. So thinking ASA kept openings intact is a false memory. Even if there was no Toonami packaging there's no guarantee the shows airing would have short enough run times to allow them to air with full OPs every week. The compromise of getting the full cuts of OPs one time is pretty dang good and we should be grateful for it.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Sketch

[PokeNirvash]

4 hours ago, Sketch said:

hhe Big O - At least two OPs aired but eventually they stopped airing the OPs and just did a title card

Fullmetal Alchemist - Ready Steady Go and one other OP aired in full as I recall

s.Cry.ed - Full OP I think? I'm pretty sure it had the full OP on Adult Swim video on demand at least

That title card was cool af.

Rewrite was the other one.

I can't recall if it was full or shortened (probably the latter), but I remember the OP being preserved in some way. By the way, does anyone know what other anime were [as] VOD-exclusive besides pre-2005 s-CRY-ed? Arjuna and Argento Soma are the only ones I can recall those who brought the topic up mentioning.

[Sketch]

20 hours ago, PokeNirvash said:

That title card was cool af.

Rewrite was the other one.

I can't recall if it was full or shortened (probably the latter), but I remember the OP being preserved in some way. By the way, does anyone know what other anime were [as] VOD-exclusive besides pre-2005 s-CRY-ed? Arjuna and Argento Soma are the only ones I can recall those who brought the topic up mentioning.

Gundam F91 and Endless Waltz as I recall. Maybe also Gundam Wing episodes. Oh right, .hack//SIGN was on there as well.

Thanks for remembering the other opening. Rewrite is a banger.

[PokeNirvash]

Endless Waltz and SIGN were on Toonami/SVES, so I can't say I'm too taken aback, but F91 is a surprise. I guess Char's Counterattack did well enough for them on ASA that they decided to put another Gundam movie on VOD for those with access that were interested?

[ben0119]

@Sketch I know that ASA kept longer or full themes for some shows, but definitely not all of them.  I can't remember them all fully myself.  I did record a lot of stuff off Toonami and ASA onto VHS back then, but I don't feel like cracking out the tapes right now.  But I specifically remember that they never played the OPs for InuYasha for the longest time, at least not by the time I was watching it.  They would have the intro or title card and then it would go straight to the show.  One of the bumps was with a viewer talking about Tetsusaiga going from katana to falchion and attack points or something, which is how I found out what kind of sword transformed Tetsusagia was.  I know this for sure, because they didn't show the OPs until years after the fact, I think after nearly most or all of the show had already aired, and they were different tapes, because they had edited Mistress Centipede's boobs!

Either way, Demarco's point about saying they have to cut the OPs and EDs to fit in Toonami packaging is BS, since ASA was doing the same thing, even if not necessarily to the same degree.

[ben0119]

On 1/1/2020 at 6:41 PM, Top Gun said:

If you need some generic J-pop to get "hyped" for a series, then you're probably not enjoying the series in the first place.

Again, as angel pointed out, YouTube.  If you can't manage to find a show's full  opening there, you shouldn't be allowed to use the Internet in the first place.

It's either they cut the songs down, or they cut down the actual show like SyFy did.  I know which one I prefer.

Dude some of those OPs are major hype.  Sure they aren't necessarily required, but they help, if you like the songs, at least.  And they aren't all that generic, or even J-pop.  CountFrylock mentioned the Fire Force OP... that's some sissy boy wannabe "metal" song.  So that isn't getting me particularly hyped.  But yeah, it's not J-pop.

If I recall, going by the guides Gina gave us for Monster, they tried to cut nonessential stuff, like establishing shots, etc.  Though I agree I hate to have any episode content cut.  Would definitely prefer cutting of themes over that.  But they could at least do better jobs on the edits!

[ben0119]

On 1/4/2020 at 9:44 PM, DangerMouse said:

I love it so much that they still do only one commercial break in the middle of the shows. So much better than multiple breaks and lets you get drawn into the episodes instead of getting taken out of it every 5 minutes.

Yeah, and gives you plenty of time if you need to do something during that long single break, too.  What's also great is they put ads in between the shows.  Networks that don't do that and just have one show flow into the next causes fuckery for DVRs and then I have to add the extra minute on both ends.