FLCL Shoegaze premieres September 30 at midnight; also, it and Grunge are three episodes each because LOL

[Blatch]

And confirmation from Maki on my latter point:

Who the hell saw this coming?

[Jman]

At least Shoegaze doesn’t look like it was rendered on an Xbox 360.

[EmpressAngel]

It's weird that the promo didn't mention next week's episode being Grunge's finale.

[OwlChemist81]

Haruko still hasn't gotten her guitar, so this is absolutely shocking!

[Top Gun]

15 minutes ago, EmpressAngel said:

It's weird that the promo didn't mention next week's episode being Grunge's finale.

They've been calling the definitive ends of series "season finales" for years so i wouldn't expect them to have a clue by this point.

...or maybe they just want to fund needless sequels for everything...

[Toonamiguy321]

On one hand, im glad that we only have to suffer for half the time. On the other, why the hell are we just finding out about this now? The fact that these are only a paltry 3 episodes each is info that was very clearly hidden as long as possible to mitigate outrage at how little we get for how long we waited and how many acquisitions we sacrificed for these. 

[ben0119]

BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, only being 3 episodes for each show is hilarious.  That's more like 2 mini-series.  Well, hopefully we get a real show as replacement when they're over!

12 minutes ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

On one hand, im glad that we only have to suffer for half the time. On the other, why the hell are we just finding out about this now? The fact that these are only a paltry 3 episodes each is info that was very clearly hidden as long as possible to mitigate outrage at how little we get for how long we waited and how many acquisitions we sacrificed for these. 

Good point.  Of course Demarco has claimed the budget for originals and acquisitions is separate lol.

[CountFrylock]

39 minutes ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

On one hand, im glad that we only have to suffer for half the time. On the other, why the hell are we just finding out about this now? The fact that these are only a paltry 3 episodes each is info that was very clearly hidden as long as possible to mitigate outrage at how little we get for how long we waited and how many acquisitions we sacrificed for these. 

Apparently this decision was a budget made one from production IG not a creative one according to its president on twitter 

[Toonamiguy321]

18 minutes ago, CountFrylock said:

Apparently this decision was a budget made one from production IG not a creative one according to its president on twitter 

Fair enough, im not casting blame for them being 3 episodes. I’m casting blame that the fact that they were 3 episodes is only being revealed at the end of episode 2 of 3 of Grunge. We know Demarco combs Twitter every day to correct “misinfo” about his darling pet projects, and discussion of these being 6 episodes has probably come from hundreds of separate people across all of 2023 either in talks of the show itself or just schedule speculation. So why did Demarco never state these were only 3 episodes? At the very least, that should have been stated at the last con panel. 

[PokeNirvash]

As someone who likes to know how long a show is as soon as possible after it's started airing, it feels like a curb-stomp to the head to not only find out that the episode count is only three, but to find it out literally a week before the show finishes. The haters are right, this just reeks of 2023 being one of Toonami Swim's worst years yet.

Edited September 17, 2023 by PokeNirvash
Edited in a more thoughtful response.

[Jman]

They seemed to confirm it's a budget issue, which is consistent with DeMarco's reminders the block ain't got no damn money.  

Of course, then that begs the question - "Why did you waste your thimble of a budget on sequels to a franchise everyone agrees should have never had a sequel?!"

[Toonamiguy321]

1 hour ago, Jman said:

They seemed to confirm it's a budget issue, which is consistent with DeMarco's reminders the block ain't got no damn money.  

Of course, then that begs the question - "Why did you waste your thimble of a budget on sequels to a franchise everyone agrees should have never had a sequel?!"

Or, instead of making two half assed projects, why not just put the budget into one that at least had a small chance of being good? Even though Shoegaze is 2d, I still can’t see any path forward where it can make an impact with only 3 episodes. 

[Top Gun]

It would have been nice to know this going in. Grunge's second episode was honestly pretty good, and it had me cautiously optimistic about where it was going to go, but with only one more episode it feels like it's going to wind up half-baked at best. Pretty much the exact opposite problem of Progressive, which could have stood with having a whole bunch of...whatever the fuck it was trying to do sliced out.

[naraku360]

 

[Blatch]

21 hours ago, Top Gun said:

It would have been nice to know this going in. Grunge's second episode was honestly pretty good, and it had me cautiously optimistic about where it was going to go, but with only one more episode it feels like it's going to wind up half-baked at best. Pretty much the exact opposite problem of Progressive, which could have stood with having a whole bunch of...whatever the fuck it was trying to do sliced out.

Yeah, I agree. If only the people who were making these were more knowledgeable about such things as narrative economy. On the other hand, even a seasoned creative might have trouble making something meaningful out of three episodes. Maybe [as] should've ordered these two recent seasons as movies instead?

Funnily enough, finding this out actually makes me more interested in watching Grunge, because if it's only three episodes, then if it's bad, it won't be for long. And it doesn't feel so bad now, doesn't it? But it also means that Shoegaze's peak won't be very tall; it might not even be a 4000-footer...

[Daos]

 

[Otakuninja9000]

Might as well as just made them movies...

[Jman]

20 hours ago, Otakuninja9000 said:

Might as well as just made them movies...

I’m presuming it was cheaper this way, especially given the art style.  

Is now a bad time to mention that Netflix’s newest CG anime is directed by freaking Takashi Miike?  And for added fun it stars Toshiro Mifune, despite him being dead for almost 30 years.  (It’s his likeness).  

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Jman

[Otakuninja9000]

Who's Takeshi Miike? And why are they using dead people?

[PokeNirvash]

Famous Japanese action/horror movie director. Most notable for directing Audition and Ichi the Killer.

[Jman]

Just now, Otakuninja9000 said:

Who's Takeshi Miike? And why are they using dead people?

Ichi the Killer, 13 Assassins, Audition, and Hostel among others.  He’s a very prolific director of live action films, with Onimusha being his first anime.

The Onimusha series has always used deceased actors for their characters, and sometimes living ones, like when the third game co-starred Jean Reno (The Professional).   It’s just a lot more talent and money than FLCL, which begs the question why keep doing FLCL when they could do literally anything else if they’re going the originals route?

[Toonamiguy321]

16 minutes ago, Jman said:

It’s just a lot more talent and money than FLCL, which begs the question why keep doing FLCL when they could do literally anything else if they’re going the originals route?

Quite simple, they can’t. Imagine you hold the rights to a Japanese property, do you want Netflix and their wads and wads of cash to adapt your project, or do you want some low rent operation like AS to make it? On top of lack of funds, the guy they will put in charge of the anime is on record saying certain aspects of anime are problematic and need to be changed. 
 

That’s why FLCL works so good for them. Production IG is happy to take a shit on the original, so they don’t care if Demarco can only afford $100 for the budget and changes things that hurt his feefees

[Jman]

5 hours ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

Quite simple, they can’t. Imagine you hold the rights to a Japanese property, do you want Netflix and their wads and wads of cash to adapt your project, or do you want some low rent operation like AS to make it? On top of lack of funds, the guy they will put in charge of the anime is on record saying certain aspects of anime are problematic and need to be changed. 
 

That’s why FLCL works so good for them. Production IG is happy to take a shit on the original, so they don’t care if Demarco can only afford $100 for the budget and changes things that hurt his feefees

So FLCL was the only option?  You couldn't make an original premise tailor made for the block?  It had to be a license, and that license had to be FLCL?

Toonami's track record with originals is pretty miserable, big names (Blade Runner) or original concepts.  But there had to be something if DeMarco wasn't so in love with FLCL.  You could make a compelling original or two without needing to have a big license from yesteryear or hire freaking Takeshi Miike to direct it.  But FLCL was not the way to go.

[MCPissPants]

Pitching a show to Toonami:

 

[Toonamiguy321]

4 hours ago, Jman said:

So FLCL was the only option?  You couldn't make an original premise tailor made for the block?  It had to be a license, and that license had to be FLCL?

Toonami's track record with originals is pretty miserable, big names (Blade Runner) or original concepts.  But there had to be something if DeMarco wasn't so in love with FLCL.  You could make a compelling original or two without needing to have a big license from yesteryear or hire freaking Takeshi Miike to direct it.  But FLCL was not the way to go.

Demarco wants to be the guy that “makes anime” so any original premise has to be a pitch from Japan. And considering all the slop that comes out each season, it’s hard to NOT find a studio in Japan to make your project. The few who can’t would probably rather wait over allowing western influence to taint their project. 

We did get a total original with Fena, and we all know how that worked out. You need someone who is absolutely desperate to rely on western help, and someone that desperate probably has a disaster of a pitch.

It’s probably a brand thing for Demarco too. He isn’t just making any old anime, he is make FLCL, a beloved classic. Since he is deaf to criticism, the overwhelmingly negative response to these has no effect on him. 

[Jman]

3 hours ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

Demarco wants to be the guy that “makes anime” so any original premise has to be a pitch from Japan. And considering all the slop that comes out each season, it’s hard to NOT find a studio in Japan to make your project. The few who can’t would probably rather wait over allowing western influence to taint their project. 

We did get a total original with Fena, and we all know how that worked out. You need someone who is absolutely desperate to rely on western help, and someone that desperate probably has a disaster of a pitch.

It’s probably a brand thing for Demarco too. He isn’t just making any old anime, he is make FLCL, a beloved classic. Since he is deaf to criticism, the overwhelmingly negative response to these has no effect on him. 

How's that working out in the ratings for them?

Toonami does not have Takashi Miike money, or the money for big name franchise remakes.  But that should make it all the more imperative that they spend their money wisely.  

Maybe this is just me being a Chicken Little again, but it really does feel like 2024 is going to be Toonami's make or break year.  They either get access to something consistent, be it funds for originals, DC organizing a more direct content pipeline (which is questionable given Amazon has the new Batman cartoon, Caped Crusader), or they're deemed a money sink by Zaslav and sign off one more time.

When Toonami died in 2007, it was both the end of the initial anime boom in the country and the beginning of CN's Dark Age on the back of the ill-fated CN Real experiment.  So I'm not in a hurry to repeat those days, even if most people might be confused if you tell them Toonami is still on, since that's something their parents watched back in the day.

[OwlChemist81]

6 hours ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

. We did get a total original with Fena, and we all know how that worked out.

Hey now, Fena's first 10 episodes weren't THAT bad; in fact it was quite good when it was trying to be "National Treasure: The Anime". Just wish it would have stayed that instead of turning into whatever the hell that was in the last 2 episodes and tanking Batman: The Long Halloween in the process!

[Toonamiguy321]

8 hours ago, Jman said:

How's that working out in the ratings for them?

The CR originals and HCC all did pretty bad but Grunge has shockingly done passable so far. It’s kind of unfair with how short it is to call it a winner if Saturdays episode does well, but it certainly hasn’t been the bomb we expected. Perhaps not having a proper premier lead most of 2023 has encouraged people to tune in even if the show is doodoo.
 

Now, good enough to justify making originals? I don’t think so. And on the topic of spending their budget wisely, dropping the dreams of making originals and instead focusing their budget on acquired content again is how they do that. 
 

5 hours ago, OwlChemist81 said:

Hey now, Fena's first 10 episodes weren't THAT bad; in fact it was quite good when it was trying to be "National Treasure: The Anime". Just wish it would have stayed that instead of turning into whatever the hell that was in the last 2 episodes and tanking Batman: The Long Halloween in the process!

You mean the first 1 episode, right? Episode 1 looked like they were building up to something good and it was off the rails by 2. At that point it felt like the cast just warped between barely connected set pieces in search of some treasure that had a name people would recognize. I’d rank Fena as the worst written anime I have ever sat through, and I have watched utter garbage like TPN S2, Magical Warfare, and Hand Shakers. 

[Jman]

When it comes to acquisitions, I wonder if it’s time to accept that there are no more that Toonami can rent out.  None that DeMarco wants anyway.
 

So that leaves DC content, and making originals.  The problem with DC is convincing Warner to break out the good stuff and not just the kids cartoon, and the problem with the originals is finding the right talent and stories.  It is telling that there’s a lot of shows when they’re announced that people automatically think “Netflix”, like the Fist of the North Star remake or “Crunchyroll” if it’s a big Shounen adaptation.  Toonami doesn’t command that respect or even notoriety when it comes to their originals.  And FLCL seems to he the latest example of that.

That and there’s just content to think about it.  Netflix, Crunchyroll and Hulu all can get away with things Toonami can’t be it violence, sexual content, and just length.  Toonami wouldn’t air the opening of the FOTNS remake and that should disqualify them immediately from airing it.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Jman

[Sketch]

Even most of Toonami’s originals are squarely TV-14 and are most appropriately marketed to teenagers. HCC is the exception but it really was only gory in one episode. Ninja Kamui might push TV-MA but it won’t be Chainsaw Man level violent. And I’m not saying something has to be TV-MA to target adults but Fena and the FLCLs aren’t seinin or josei and Shenmue and Black Lotus are only targeting adults because adults are the only people who are interested in those old franchises. Maybe Lazarus can break the curse but it’s probably not gonna push content barriers.

Anyway, Shoegaze looks very watchable and having Kana return is great. I was wondering why Haruko wasn’t shown in the previews and now we know it’s because she’s not in it. Makes sense given she was blasted out of that universe at the end of Alt.

They are really treating it like an after thought though. They should have spaced them out so Shoegaze had some time to drum up interest. Maybe they thought the season with Haruko was the easier sell but not when that’s the one in an underwhelming CGI style.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Sketch

[Toonamiguy321]

3 hours ago, Jman said:

When it comes to acquisitions, I wonder if it’s time to accept that there are no more that Toonami can rent out.  None that DeMarco wants anyway.

I have come to accept it, but it still irritates the hell out of me. It’s frustrating to see them have options to make a block that doesn’t suck and just not take them. This past couple of years that were disastrous didn’t have to be this way if they didn’t obsessively chase AAA shonen they were never gonna be able to land. 
 

1 hour ago, Sketch said:

Even most of Toonami’s originals are squarely TV-14 and are most appropriately marketed to teenagers. HCC is the exception but it really was only gory in one episode. Ninja Kamui might push TV-MA but it won’t be Chainsaw Man level violent. And I’m not saying something has to be TV-MA to target adults but Fena and the FLCLs aren’t seinin or josei and Shenmue and Black Lotus are only targeting adults because adults are the only people who are interested in those old franchises. Maybe Lazarus can break the curse but it’s probably not gonna push content barriers.

I suppose they felt they needed to market to the audience they cultivated over the years. People who wanted MA tier shows gave up a long time ago when Demarco was dead set on loading up on every preteen oriented shonen on the market. Even now, how would an MA show look next to OP and Naruto? Major tonal whiplash, that’s for sure. 
 

On the topic of Grunge, the Facebook page is now referring to it as the final episode