If voting doesn't matter

[jackiemarie90]

then why does the GOP work so hard to prevent others from voting?  :|?

[Mini_ghost420]

I don't know. go ask the rants folder

[jackiemarie90]

Just now, Mini_Ghost said:

I don't know. go ask the rants folder

It isn't a rant, an enquiry.

[bnmjy]

I live in western PA. My vote always matters.

[Mini_ghost420]

1 minute ago, jackiemarie90 said:

It isn't a rant, an enquiry.

well still they might have more of an answer for you. people who say voting don't matter just mean it doesn't matter to them personally. but I doubt an empathetic person such as yourself could ever understand apathy

[jackiemarie90]

Just now, Mini_Ghost said:

well still they might have more of an answer for you. people who say voting don't matter just mean it doesn't matter to them personally. but I doubt an empathetic person such as yourself could ever understand apathy

Apathy is usually used to protect oneself from hurting pain, so they choose to not to care because in some way it makes their own lives easier. Kinda the same as cynicism. You can't be disappointed if you never believed you could do something in the first place. I'm not looking for an answer if I were to be honest, I'm wondering if others will start wondering themselves. I think getting people to think about why things are, the way they are, helps us think of what we can do next.

[Mini_ghost420]

2 minutes ago, jackiemarie90 said:

Apathy is usually used to protect oneself from hurting pain, so they choose to not to care because in some way it makes their own lives easier. Kinda the same as cynicism. You can't be disappointed if you never believed you could do something in the first place. I'm not looking for an answer if I were to be honest, I'm wondering if others will start wondering themselves. I think getting people to think about why things are, the way they are, helps us think of what we can do next.

that's true. it's always better to make others think if you can

[tsar4]

15 minutes ago, jackiemarie90 said:

then why does the GOP work so hard to prevent others from voting?  :|?

It isn't just the GOP.  Whoever's purpose it serves attempts it.  If you are a Dem in Illinois and you step out-of-line with what Speaker Madigan wants (or are a Republican), you will find yourself redistricted out of a job.  In other words, the voters who would have voted for you are now in someone else's district.

[jackiemarie90]

Just now, tsar4 said:

It isn't just the GOP.  Whoever's purpose it serves attempts it.  If you are a Dem in Illinois and you step out-of-line with what Speaker Madigan wants (or are a Republican), you will find yourself redistricted out of a job.  In other words, the voters who would have voted for you are now in someone else's district.

I wish some politicians would focus laws that help get rid of corruption instead of keeping it in hopes it would help them. Like getting rid of gerrymandering or industries have rights as people. Democrats are fucking idiots if they think this will help them "eventually" because when it comes to real power, it never actually does.

[tsar4]

2 minutes ago, jackiemarie90 said:

I wish some politicians would focus laws that help get rid of corruption instead of keeping it in hopes it would help them. Like getting rid of gerrymandering or industries have rights as people. Democrats are fucking idiots if they think this will help them "eventually" because when it comes to real power, it never actually does.

It doesn't behoove the corrupt to get rid of corruption.

[jackiemarie90]

31 minutes ago, tsar4 said:

It doesn't behoove the corrupt to get rid of corruption.

It's usually the people who then have to either run for government or organize to change it.

[Ginguy]

1 hour ago, jackiemarie90 said:

then why does the GOP work so hard to prevent others from voting?  :|?

We work hard to prevent it?

Damn it.

I knew I was doing something wrong knocking on those 9,762 doors and making those 24,834 calls....

 

 

[scoobdog]

1 minute ago, Ginguy said:

We work hard to prevent it?

Damn it.

I knew I was doing something wrong knocking on those 9,762 doors and making those 24,834 calls....

 

 

How many of them were minorities?

[tsar4]

6 minutes ago, jackiemarie90 said:

It's usually the people who then have to either run for government or organize to change it.

You have to be pretty thick-skinned, well off, connected and/or squeaky clean to even get anywhere.  Just listen to your local attack ads.  Half-truths abound, which can destroy your personal & professional life.

[midnight]

1 minute ago, scoobdog said:

How many of them were Mennonites? 

Fixed.

Because that's how I read it at first.

[jackiemarie90]

5 minutes ago, Ginguy said:

We work hard to prevent it?

Damn it.

I knew I was doing something wrong knocking on those 9,762 doors and making those 24,834 calls....

 

 

Not everyone in the party, just the ones installing voter ID laws that prevent people who don't have them like native american tribal members who don't use them. 

[tsar4]

3 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

How many of them were minorities?

Wouldn't it be wrong to even know that answer?  To have any idea would indicate you were keeping track of such things.

[midnight]

Just now, tsar4 said:

You have to be pretty thick-skinned, well off, connected and/or squeaky clean to even get anywhere.  Just listen to your local attack ads.  Half-truths abound, which can destroy your personal & professional life.

I have ran my campaign, avoiding dragging my opponent's name through the mud. 

That was one of the major points of my campaign. I see too many smear campaigns, and did not want mine to be that way.

I have called to attention a few things he has and hasn't done, that are the truth, but no garbage about him being a shitty person or anything like that. 

It may cost me, but I would rather be honest, as opposed to trying to lie to get a vote.

[jackiemarie90]

1 minute ago, tsar4 said:

You have to be pretty thick-skinned, well off, connected and/or squeaky clean to even get anywhere.  Just listen to your local attack ads.  Half-truths abound, which can destroy your personal & professional life.

Politics is hard life. I always get very political so people ask me is my major in school Political Science, I respond they same as you. I'm not squeaky clean or even thick skinned.

[Ginguy]

1 minute ago, tsar4 said:

Wouldn't it be wrong to even know that answer?  To have any idea would indicate you were keeping track of such things.

It would also violate multiple NDA's I've signed.

 

 

[Ginguy]

1 minute ago, midnight said:

I have ran my campaign, avoiding dragging my opponent's name through the mud. 

That was one of the major points of my campaign. I see too many smear campaigns, and did not want mine to be that way.

I have called to attention a few things he has and hasn't done, that are the truth, but no garbage about him being a shitty person or anything like that. 

It may cost me, but I would rather be honest, as opposed to trying to lie to get a vote.

BTW, you should be out knocking doors and if at all possible getting the credentials needed to have poll watchers at the polling places to prevent shenanigans. If you don't have those lined up yet (and you really should) then you have to get them done tomorrow.

If this guy is a crook, or generally shady, you need to have some good people on your side out there to watch for things.

 

[tsar4]

1 minute ago, midnight said:

I have ran my campaign, avoiding dragging my opponent's name through the mud. 

That was one of the major points of my campaign. I see too many smear campaigns, and did not want mine to be that way.

I have called to attention a few things he has and hasn't done, that are the truth, but no garbage about him being a shitty person or anything like that. 

It may cost me, but I would rather be honest, as opposed to trying to lie to get a vote.

This sort of discussion always reminds me of WKRP, where Arthur Carlson ran for Councilmember & released that his opponent was an alcoholic - then proceeded to sabotage his own campaign.  I always wanted a copy of his sabotaged campaign poster.

[midnight]

1 minute ago, Ginguy said:

BTW, you should be out knocking doors and if at all possible getting the credentials needed to have poll watchers at the polling places to prevent shenanigans. If you don't have those lined up yet (and you really should) then you have to get them done tomorrow.

If this guy is a crook, or generally shady, you need to have some good people on your side out there to watch for things.

 

Unfortunately, I have been sick since September. I have not been able to knock on doors. I have been to the doctor twice. Not making excuses, but of course, when I needed to be out there, I couldn't. And I don't know much about poll watchers. I'm afraid if I had someone doing that, they'd get ran off for loitering. That's how shit rolls around here.

[midnight]

3 minutes ago, tsar4 said:

This sort of discussion always reminds me of WKRP, where Arthur Carlson ran for Councilmember & released that his opponent was an alcoholic - then proceeded to sabotage his own campaign.  I always wanted a copy of his sabotaged campaign poster.

I probably did sabotage my own campaign. Unintentionally.

But, I'd rather lose for being honest, than win by lying.

I'm, well, I was going to say too old for those shenanigans, but most politicians are older than me.

[Naraku4656]

my state is incredibly gerrymandered. so bad that we had a supreme court case about it. i don't like to pick on one party as a whole over another because i feel that's disingenuous and doesn't solve anything. there have been democrats in my state which i wouldn't feel comfortable representing me and there were also republicans that i wouldn't want representing me. i don't talk about my thoughts here though because i know i'm more on the moderate side which makes me outnumbered

Edited November 3, 2018 by Naraku4656

[Ginguy]

11 minutes ago, midnight said:

Unfortunately, I have been sick since September. I have not been able to knock on doors. I have been to the doctor twice. Not making excuses, but of course, when I needed to be out there, I couldn't. And I don't know much about poll watchers. I'm afraid if I had someone doing that, they'd get ran off for loitering. That's how shit rolls around here.

After a bit of quick checking, you missed the appointment deadline.

I think you can still have people at the polling locations, as long as they are not electioneering. In Georgia, that means they have to be 150 feet from the outside edge of the poll location, and cannot be within 25 feet of a voter standing in line to vote.

In short, you can stand around in a campaign shirt and hand out candy to people if you are 150 feet away from the door.

[midnight]

1 minute ago, Ginguy said:

After a bit of quick checking, you missed the appointment deadline.

I think you can still have people at the polling locations, as long as they are not electioneering. In Georgia, that means they have to be 150 feet from the outside edge of the poll location, and cannot be within 25 feet of a voter standing in line to vote.

In short, you can stand around in a campaign shirt and hand out candy to people if you are 150 feet away from the door.

Damn. In this case, my folks would be standing in the highway. But I will get the break down of votes, by precincts after the election. I already suspect something fishy from the primary election. But I have chosen to keep quiet until after the election next week.

[jackiemarie90]

16 minutes ago, Naraku4656 said:

my state is incredibly gerrymandered. so bad that we had a supreme court case about it. i don't like to pick on one party as a whole over another because i feel that's disingenuous and doesn't solve anything. there have been democrats in my state which i wouldn't feel comfortable representing me and there were also republicans that i wouldn't want representing me. i don't talk about my thoughts here though because i know i'm more on the moderate side which makes me outnumbered

Gerrymandering is a huge problem, and I mentioned my response on another post, but I'm curious on laws that actually prevent people from voting.

[tsar4]

9 minutes ago, jackiemarie90 said:

Gerrymandering is a huge problem, and I mentioned my response on another post, but I'm curious on laws that actually prevent people from voting.

Mostly these complaints seem to revolve around proof of identity.  Arguments for include all the things that are required for less important things (buying booze, cigs, food stamps, etc).  Arguments against include "what do you do with those without ID who should be allowed to vote (homeless, etc)?".

[mochi]

6 hours ago, jackiemarie90 said:

then why does the GOP work so hard to prevent others from voting?  :|?

because Voting only matters for Democrats

 

GOP candidates only win when there's low voter turn out, so they rely on people thinking it doesn't matter so they can rig elections in their favor more believably

[tsar4]

3 hours ago, tsar4 said:

It isn't just the GOP.  Whoever's purpose it serves attempts it.  If you are a Dem in Illinois and you step out-of-line with what Speaker Madigan wants (or are a Republican), you will find yourself redistricted out of a job.  In other words, the voters who would have voted for you are now in someone else's district.

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/nearly-half-of-illinois-house-candidates-face-no-opponent/

[Distortedreasoning]

just another way to control the elections here. 

the less people voting, the less you have to worry about trying to convince to vote for you. so even when both candidates are essentially the same person, there are still sides with people that want to win. here in the states it doesnt matter who wins between a democrat or republican because you know they both will be corporate backed, and both supporting the full on agenda of american imperialism. 

[KimopoBotar]

5 hours ago, jackiemarie90 said:

I wish some politicians would focus laws that help get rid of corruption instead of keeping it in hopes it would help them. Like getting rid of gerrymandering or industries have rights as people. Democrats are fucking idiots if they think this will help them "eventually" because when it comes to real power, it never actually does.

The problem for democrats is that they're just not as good at the corruption game. They are not as effective at controlling the narrative as republicans and thats an integral part of doing fucked up shit and convincing your base the other guy did it. 

Problem is, controlling the narrative is also necessary for cleaning house and flushing out corruption. They can't change it until they can be sure it won't just be used but Republicans to get rid of anyone they don't like. 

It's a delicate situation. 

[tsar4]

10 hours ago, KimopoBotar said:

The problem for democrats is that they're just not as good at the corruption game.

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Edited November 4, 2018 by tsar4

[Naraku4656]

1 minute ago, tsar4 said:

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someone's never been to Chicago. the entire party there is corrupt

[tsar4]

2 minutes ago, Naraku4656 said:

someone's never been to Chicago. the entire party there is corrupt

You made a mistake, you wrote Chicago, but obviously meant Illinois.

[Naraku4656]

2 minutes ago, tsar4 said:

You made a mistake, you wrote Chicago, but obviously meant Illinois.

you're probably right, but i can only speak for Chicago because that's where i have friends from who have mentioned horror stories.

[tsar4]

18 minutes ago, Naraku4656 said:

you're probably right, but i can only speak for Chicago because that's where i have friends from who have mentioned horror stories.

Here's the scam - Michael Madigan is the Speaker of the Illinois House & therefore sets the agenda that comes before the House.  So he decides when to raise property taxes.  By the way, his law firm specializes in appealing high property taxes for clients with very deep pockets (no conflict of interest there).

His daughter Lisa, is the Illinois AG.  She's not going to investigate him.  And to show what a nice guy he is, his daughter wanted to run for Gov.  He put the kibosh on it because it would have meant he'd have to give up being the Speaker.  Swell guy!  Nothing happens in Illinois unless he & his right-hand man John Cullerton say so.

[PenguinBoss]

16 hours ago, tsar4 said:

Wouldn't it be wrong to even know that answer?  To have any idea would indicate you were keeping track of such things.

I don't believe he's starting at the A's in the phone book and going down the line.

[tsar4]

Illinois is in the red pretty badly.  Madigan's constantly looking for new ways to raise taxes, the latest (I've heard of) being a per mile tax on driving.  He presented a budget so far in the red that the Governor had to veto it.  The House farted around and the State defaulted on paying things before they finally presented something that, while still far negative, at least was somewhat better.  Now all the Dem campaign ads are saying we're in debt and stuff didn't get paid because of the Gov not agreeing to their horrible budget.  And the majority of the voters in this state will buy it because they can't remember what they had for lunch, let alone what happened during the budget crisis. 

[KimopoBotar]

4 hours ago, tsar4 said:

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Your terrible state doesn't represent politics for the entire country. On a national level, Republicans are better at controlling the narrative and in most states they're actively suppressing votes. I'm sorry your state sucks though. 

At least Chicago won the world series finally. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by KimopoBotar

[tsar4]

Just now, KimopoBotar said:

Your terrible state doesn't represent politics for the entire country. On a national level, Republicans are better at controlling the narrative and in most states they're actively suppressing votes. I'm sorry your state sucks though. 

At least Chicago won to world series finally. 

The Dems are better at making it look like they're not controlling the narrative, while they push the narrative that the GOP is suppressing votes everywhere.

[KimopoBotar]

6 minutes ago, tsar4 said:

The Dems are better at making it look like they're not controlling the narrative, while they push the narrative that the GOP is suppressing votes everywhere.

No. Republicans ARE suppressing votes in multiple states. 

Georgia has several ways of doing it and the guy in charge of the election is the Republican candidate for governor. 

North Dakota has a law that disenfranchises thousands of native americans by requiring a street adress on an id. Most have ids with po boxes because they don't have street adesses in the reservations. 

Two examples of that i haven't even fully waken up. 

I know Illinois politics are a mess and I'm sure that's the fault of both parties there. But right now, national politics and the way it is and why is such a mess is far more the responsibility of Republicans, starting with the dirty partisan methods of Newt Gingrich. He's turned congressional politics into what it is today. 

I don't think dems are innocent. They're just not as good at playing the same game Republicans are

Edited November 4, 2018 by KimopoBotar

[KimopoBotar]

@tsar4 congratulations on your new governor. Looks the Republican narrative lost for you guys. 

[tsar4]

1 hour ago, KimopoBotar said:

@tsar4 congratulations on your new governor. Looks the Republican narrative lost for you guys. 

Can't stand it.  https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/pritzker-price-tag-candidates-spending-promises-require-doubling-state-income-tax/

Illinois is already horrendously in debt and this bozo (who dodged taxes on one of his mansions by pulling all but one of the toilets out & having it declared "uninhabitable") wants to add more debt.

 

 

[KimopoBotar]

2 hours ago, tsar4 said:

Can't stand it.  https://www.illinoispolicy.org/reports/pritzker-price-tag-candidates-spending-promises-require-doubling-state-income-tax/

Illinois is already horrendously in debt and this bozo (who dodged taxes on one of his mansions by pulling all but one of the toilets out & having it declared "uninhabitable") wants to add more debt.

 

 

Guess time will tell how it works out. I'm optimistic for you guys. 

[Hornshire]

Imagine a boot stamping on a human face- forever.