QueenoftheDorks Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jman said: She’s bi. No, seriously, that’s the most reasonable explanation given she’s shown attraction to men and women. I mean, you could say she’s pansexual and upgrade her to full on horny teenager fantasy, but I’ll go with bi in this case. When has Nami ever shown interest in a man that wasn't in an attempt to get his money?? Also I like how everyone takes Nami to think Marine women are hot, when she's clearly thinking about her mother when she says it. Y'all some freaks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 9 hours ago, QueenoftheDorks said: Natsu (father figure), Naruto (trying to stop Sasuke), Luffy (looking for One Piece), and I don't really know enough about Dragonball to know Goku's whole deal. Like I get reading things into characters and identifying with them. I read a lot of slash fiction, but I don't mistake it for canon. I'll take Luffy as canonically asexual since Oda himself has said he's not really into it, but that doesn't mean it shuts down the possibility of Luffy getting married or having kids or even being attracted to someone of either gender. When it comes to Nami and Kalifia, Nami does have those thoughts, but she also chides herself for being caught up in Kalifia's pace which I took to mean "so sexy everyone wants her" but it is super easy to read Nami as a big ol' lesbian. Wasn't sure if that was Gon or not, heh. Not really sure Goku has any set goal. He cares about and protects the people he loves, and likes to fight and get stronger. That is a retcon though, given past moments. Though I think Oda wouldn't even have said that if people didn't keep bugging him about why isn't Luffy hooking up with anybody. I thought asexual meant you didn't have any sexual or romantic attractions to anyone. Pace? I don't see it as coming off as lesbian myself. I think that's what people want to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, QueenoftheDorks said: When has Nami ever shown interest in a man that wasn't in an attempt to get his money?? Also I like how everyone takes Nami to think Marine women are hot, when she's clearly thinking about her mother when she says it. Y'all some freaks. Nami has used her body and her feminine wiles against men to trick them. This happened a lot early on. Not sure if I can recall her actually showing attraction to a guy or not. What do you mean thinking of her mother? I personally think she is just impressed with and complimenting those women, or, like the thing you said about getting caught up in the situation. Edited July 1, 2018 by ben0119 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 1, 2018 Author Share Posted July 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Jman said: She’s bi. No, seriously, that’s the most reasonable explanation given she’s shown attraction to men and women. I mean, you could say she’s pansexual and upgrade her to full on horny teenager fantasy, but I’ll go with bi in this case. Bi is a safer bet than lesbian, but yeah people can't say she's totally hetero after that outburst when she met Kalifa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 1, 2018 Author Share Posted July 1, 2018 7 hours ago, QueenoftheDorks said: When has Nami ever shown interest in a man that wasn't in an attempt to get his money?? Also I like how everyone takes Nami to think Marine women are hot, when she's clearly thinking about her mother when she says it. Y'all some freaks. to be fair I go more off of her blurting out "Wah, she's so sexy, if she were my secretary I'd be happy" when she met Kalifa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpressAngel Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 5 hours ago, ben0119 said: What do you mean thinking of her mother? I personally think she is just impressed with an complimenting those women, or, like the thing you said about getting caught up in the situation. Nami's adopted mother was a marine who retired to raise her and her sister full-time. That particular panel is Nami leaving a ship full of sick children that they'd just rescued in the care of a marine woman who promised they'd get proper care. As for Luffy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 42 minutes ago, EmpressAngel said: Nami's adopted mother was a marine who retired to raise her and her sister full-time. That particular panel is Nami leaving a ship full of sick children that they'd just rescued in the care of a marine woman who promised they'd get proper care. As for Luffy: Oh ok. I don't think that's been revealed in what I've seen so far. Don't remember anything about her mom being a marine. Either way, not all marines are evil. Again, it's a RETCON. And an annoying one at that. And just makes Luffy come off as more retarded than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 18 hours ago, QueenoftheDorks said: When has Nami ever shown interest in a man that wasn't in an attempt to get his money?? Also I like how everyone takes Nami to think Marine women are hot, when she's clearly thinking about her mother when she says it. Y'all some freaks. The thing is I’ve never seen her repulsed by men, or completely disinterested for gags the way Luffy is. Maybe I’m wrong but as far as I can recall she shows appreciation for both even if she fervently denies it for women. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpressAngel Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 9 hours ago, ben0119 said: Oh ok. I don't think that's been revealed in what I've seen so far. Don't remember anything about her mom being a marine. Either way, not all marines are evil. That was waaaaay back in the beginning around like, 75 episodes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 9 hours ago, ben0119 said: Either way, not all marines are evil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 1, 2018 Author Share Posted July 1, 2018 11 hours ago, ben0119 said: Oh ok. I don't think that's been revealed in what I've seen so far. Don't remember anything about her mom being a marine. Either way, not all marines are evil. Again, it's a RETCON. And an annoying one at that. And just makes Luffy come off as more retarded than anything else. not really Luffy's not quite as socially inept as Goku is, with Luffy he's rather up front in telling Boa he's not interested.....it just goes in one ear and out the other because she's nuts Luffy is more "odd" than he is stupid, whereas Goku is out-right a complete moron who doesn't even know what vaginas are also outside of Luffy's Aversion to women he's very friendly with Okamas, which furthers the idea that his disinterest in women (retcon or not) is literal and not just "luffy being stupid" not necessarily implying Luffy is gay but he at the very least is the only man in the series who doesn't think the Okamas are disgusting or terrifying also Oda Drew this it's Nami and Chopper putting makeup and a wig on Luffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenoftheDorks Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Luffy isn't a retcon though. He's never been interested in women or men or anything that isn't meat (or meat related) or a stag beetle. You can't even count the time he peeped on Vivi and Nami because even Chopper peeped on Vivi and Nami and he doesn't even like human women. And why would Luffy think the okamas are disgusting? Literally the only people he has a problem with are the bad guys. Even even saved Robin who at that point as far as he knew murdered Ingram. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 12 hours ago, EmpressAngel said: That was waaaaay back in the beginning around like, 75 episodes in. I must have forgotten. It's been a while since I've seen those episodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, mochi said: not really Luffy's not quite as socially inept as Goku is, with Luffy he's rather up front in telling Boa he's not interested.....it just goes in one ear and out the other because she's nuts Luffy is more "odd" than he is stupid, whereas Goku is out-right a complete moron who doesn't even know what vaginas are also outside of Luffy's Aversion to women he's very friendly with Okamas, which furthers the idea that his disinterest in women (retcon or not) is literal and not just "luffy being stupid" not necessarily implying Luffy is gay but he at the very least is the only man in the series who doesn't think the Okamas are disgusting or terrifying also Oda Drew this it's Nami and Chopper putting makeup and a wig on Luffy It still kind of came off like Luffy is oblivious to me. Those shojo scenarios that Boa would imagine were hilarious, though. That's because Goku was a little kid and the only other person he knew was his grandpa, who obviously never gave him the birds and bees speech. He was also confused that Bulma didn't have a tail. Though now that I think about it why didn't he think it was odd his grandpa didn't have a tail? Well Luffy is very accepting and doesn't judge people like that. I wouldn't call it an "aversion" to women. He's very protective of Nami, which ended up being shipper fuel. Of course these people conveniently neglect that he's protective of any of his crew or friends. Not sure what the last picture proves? I mean like I said Luffy isn't a judgmental person. He has no shame either, lol. Edited July 2, 2018 by ben0119 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 3 hours ago, QueenoftheDorks said: Luffy isn't a retcon though. He's never been interested in women or men or anything that isn't meat (or meat related) or a stag beetle. You can't even count the time he peeped on Vivi and Nami because even Chopper peeped on Vivi and Nami and he doesn't even like human women. And why would Luffy think the okamas are disgusting? Literally the only people he has a problem with are the bad guys. Even even saved Robin who at that point as far as he knew murdered Ingram. But Luffy got a nosebleed. There are also other things, like Luffy saying he doesn't drink alcohol, and ordered a glass of milk (not a 4kids thing, shockingly enough) which was forgotten about later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandstone Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 On 7/1/2018 at 8:11 PM, QueenoftheDorks said: Luffy isn't a retcon though. He's never been interested in women or men or anything that isn't meat (or meat related) or a stag beetle. You can't even count the time he peeped on Vivi and Nami because even Chopper peeped on Vivi and Nami and he doesn't even like human women. And why would Luffy think the okamas are disgusting? Literally the only people he has a problem with are the bad guys. Even even saved Robin who at that point as far as he knew murdered Ingram. I agree with this assessment, Luffy is as close to a pure altruistic main character as you will find in shounen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandstone Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Fun fact about the canonical intention of race portrayal in One Piece, Luffy is supposedly modeled as a Brazilian boy. https://kotaku.com/the-real-world-nationalities-of-one-piece-characters-1729134030 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 On 7/1/2018 at 9:11 PM, QueenoftheDorks said: Luffy isn't a retcon though. He's never been interested in women or men or anything that isn't meat (or meat related) or a stag beetle. You can't even count the time he peeped on Vivi and Nami because even Chopper peeped on Vivi and Nami and he doesn't even like human women. And why would Luffy think the okamas are disgusting? Literally the only people he has a problem with are the bad guys. Even even saved Robin who at that point as far as he knew murdered Ingram. Sanji thinks they're disgusting, as do most of the men who've been confirmed to be hetero in their world, villain or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandstone Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 1 minute ago, mochi said: Sanji thinks they're disgusting, as do most of the men who've been confirmed to be hetero in their world, villain or not That's not necessarily a fair portrayal. Sanji feels uncomfortable around them and wants them to leave him alone (at first), the first time he lands on Okamaland he hits on one of the Okamas mistakingly thinking they were a woman because he didn't directly see them. Then they chase after him thinking he's interested. And while yes it's not the most sensitive portrayals of gay men, it's not really a fair characterization to say Sanji is homophobic towards all Okamas when he is shown as having made good friends with them in spite of their differences by the time he leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sandstone said: That's not necessarily a fair portrayal. Sanji feels uncomfortable around them and wants them to leave him alone (at first), the first time he lands on Okamaland he hits on one of the Okamas mistakingly thinking they were a woman because he didn't directly see them. Then they chase after him thinking he's interested. And while yes it's not the most sensitive portrayals of gay men, it's not really a fair characterization to say Sanji is homophobic towards all Okamas when he is shown as having made good friends with them in spite of their differences by the time he leaves. IMO One piece is one of the worst portrayals of gay men in anime, the only thing saving it from being THE worst is that worse portrayals exist...like Puri Puri Prisoner and Dr. Stylish the best portrayal being Yuri on Ice....not that we'll ever see another anime like Yoi Edited July 3, 2018 by mochi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandstone Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 1 minute ago, mochi said: IMO One piece is one of the worst portrayals of gay men in anime, the only thing saving it from being THE worst is that worse portrayals exist...like Puri Puri Prisoner and Dr. Stylish the best portrayal being Yuri on Ice....not that we'll ever see another anime like Yoi Btw, there is a Chinese anime I stumbled on that is an action based shounen-ai, it's pretty good. It's called Spirit Pact you should check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sandstone said: Btw, there is a Chinese anime I stumbled on that is an action based shounen-ai, it's pretty good. It's called Spirit Pact you should check it out. I'm aware, it's basically Yu Yu Hakusho but gayer that said for some reason everyone told me (at the time) that it was queerbaiting and I should avoid it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandstone Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 23 minutes ago, mochi said: I'm aware, it's basically Yu Yu Hakusho but gayer that said for some reason everyone told me (at the time) that it was queerbaiting and I should avoid it I've not watched all of it, but the main character is presented as blatantly bisexual (or pansexual depending on your perspective) though he is not immediately interested in the other main character who is blatantly portrayed as gay (though he is by obligation seemingly forced into hetero marriage in order to produce an heir). Also, his family seems to be fine with him being openly affectionate towards this other boy... so I dunno maybe they thought it was queerbaiting cause mixed bag? Or maybe there is something later on. There are some parallels to YuYu Hakusho's story I think or even Noragami. The whole premise is that he saves the boy's soul from vanishing by spiritually bonding with it for the rest of his life and is thus enslaved to him in a way. They have some rather overtly sexual toned scenes as well between them. It is worth noting the other main guy shows no real interest (in fact blatant contempt) for the girl he is proposed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 On 7/3/2018 at 2:43 AM, Sandstone said: I've not watched all of it, but the main character is presented as blatantly bisexual (or pansexual depending on your perspective) though he is not immediately interested in the other main character who is blatantly portrayed as gay (though he is by obligation seemingly forced into hetero marriage in order to produce an heir). Also, his family seems to be fine with him being openly affectionate towards this other boy... so I dunno maybe they thought it was queerbaiting cause mixed bag? Or maybe there is something later on. There are some parallels to YuYu Hakusho's story I think or even Noragami. The whole premise is that he saves the boy's soul from vanishing by spiritually bonding with it for the rest of his life and is thus enslaved to him in a way. They have some rather overtly sexual toned scenes as well between them. It is worth noting the other main guy shows no real interest (in fact blatant contempt) for the girl he is proposed to. having watched the first few eps, the character you say is gay probably is....and it's actually explained that he has no interest in his fiancee, she's aware of it, and has no dillusions that he wants her, the other character (the Uke) however seems to like women from what I've been told season 2 is even more overtly gay than season 1 was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 A lot of Japanese males seem to have an odd relationship with women. No wonder their birthrate is so low. I wonder if some of these guys are closet homosexuals since they write about guys that seem to somehow end up married to women without having any interest in actually having sex with a woman. Or really any interest in having anything to do with a woman at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenoftheDorks Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Yeah! Why don't these guys just constantly try to fuck women? I mean why even do anything else? Everyone knows men can't function in society unless they are trying to fuck every single woman they meet. Otherwise they're gay! If only we could figure that out... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 16 hours ago, Daos said: A lot of Japanese males seem to have an odd relationship with women. No wonder their birthrate is so low. I wonder if some of these guys are closet homosexuals since they write about guys that seem to somehow end up married to women without having any interest in actually having sex with a woman. Or really any interest in having anything to do with a woman at all. Akira Toriyama once said he hates drawing women which is odd because even gay guys don't hate drawing women Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gun Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Akira Toriyama can't draw people period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 6 hours ago, mochi said: Akira Toriyama once said he hates drawing women which is odd because even gay guys don't hate drawing women But why does he think it's funny for a 50 year old Goku who has two kids to not know what kissing is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenoftheDorks Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 On 7/6/2018 at 4:22 AM, Daos said: But why does he think it's funny for a 50 year old Goku who has two kids to not know what kissing is? Because in general, little boys (the things it's written for) think that kissing is gross. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 On 7/3/2018 at 1:06 AM, Sandstone said: That's not necessarily a fair portrayal. Sanji feels uncomfortable around them and wants them to leave him alone (at first), the first time he lands on Okamaland he hits on one of the Okamas mistakingly thinking they were a woman because he didn't directly see them. Then they chase after him thinking he's interested. And while yes it's not the most sensitive portrayals of gay men, it's not really a fair characterization to say Sanji is homophobic towards all Okamas when he is shown as having made good friends with them in spite of their differences by the time he leaves. It comes off more like they are trying to convert Sanji into one of their gay pod people, and given that, Sanji's reaction seems justified. Still ridiculously homophobic of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 10:16 PM, mochi said: Akira Toriyama once said he hates drawing women which is odd because even gay guys don't hate drawing women I find that hard to believe, given his female character designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 10:23 PM, Top Gun said: Akira Toriyama can't draw people period. You shut your damn mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 Just now, ben0119 said: You shut your damn mouth. XD, Toriyama is a good artist....he just sucks ass at writing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 10 hours ago, QueenoftheDorks said: Because in general, little boys (the things it's written for) think that kissing is gross. You do understand the audience for Super isn't little kids, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I dunno, it's Sunday at 9AM timeslot in Japan says otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 The fact that it was a shameless nostalgia play for everyone who saw DBZ years ago says otherwise =P I would definitely not describe the bulk of Supers audience as "little kids." They toned down the violence for maximum mass appeal. The original Dragonball where Goku was actually a little kid... was rated 13 and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) I don't think we can take such joke scenes as serious or canon, given that things like this - and this - have happened. And if you want to take an example from within Super itself, how about the Arale episode that just aired? Besides, what Goku said about not knowing what a kiss is, is contradicted by the time he asked Krillin how he a had a kid with 18. Though I suppose the idea of Goku knowing about sex but not kissing could be quite absurd and funny itself. In fact, in that same Super scene, Goku says that yeah he's married and has children but what does that have to do with kissing someone? Edited July 9, 2018 by ben0119 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenoftheDorks Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 11:21 AM, Daos said: The fact that it was a shameless nostalgia play for everyone who saw DBZ years ago says otherwise =P That doesn't automatically make it for adults. There are literally tons of media that is made for children that contains nostalgia bomb factors for parents who grew up with it. Honestly they help the parent connect to the child by giving them a common interest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 9 hours ago, ben0119 said: I don't think we can take such joke scenes as serious or canon, given that things like this - and this - have happened. And if you want to take an example from within Super itself, how about the Arale episode that just aired? Besides, what Goku said about not knowing what a kiss is, is contradicted by the time he asked Krillin how he a had a kid with 18. Though I suppose the idea of Goku knowing about sex but not kissing could be quite absurd and funny itself. In fact, in that same Super scene, Goku says that yeah he's married and has children but what does that have to do with kissing someone? I actually find the Dragonball type humor that Super tries to include to be a serious problem the issue is that GT did the same thing, and was horrible....so why did Toei think doing the exact same thing a second time would be better? DBZ and DB had radically different styles, DB leaned more towards Comedy while DBZ leaned more towards action, and frankly trying to have both at once does not work, and that should've been made obvious by GT's widely panned nature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Good old DB... forcing children to wear lingerie so they can trick Launch into wearing it. And there's always 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 43 minutes ago, Daos said: Good old DB... forcing children to wear lingerie so they can trick Launch into wearing it. And there's always the fact that Bulma was underage here makes it worse seriously why is Roshi not considered a Villain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 By the standards of today Roshi is a sex criminal. Bribing underage girls to see their bodies, dressing small children in lingerie, unwanted groping. I mean this is technically sexual assault Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Daos said: By the standards of today Roshi is a sex criminal. Bribing underage girls to see their bodies, dressing small children in lingerie, unwanted groping. I mean this is technically sexual assault I recall hearing that an upcoming episode of Super got Banned because Roshi does something similar to this and it is no longer considered okay to show things like this in Shonen anime even by Japanese censorship standards Edited July 10, 2018 by mochi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Is it the one at Tien's Dojo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, Daos said: Is it the one at Tien's Dojo? I believe so yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 3 hours ago, mochi said: I believe so yes I saw clips where he was perving out on some girl there, not sure what it was that crossed the line since I haven't seen the full episodes of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Daos said: I saw clips where he was perving out on some girl there, not sure what it was that crossed the line since I haven't seen the full episodes of that. Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 That's all? That's pretty tame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 Well it did air during the New Tens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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