13 reason why

[mochi]

it's a netflix show based on a bestselling novel

 

it's got a big fanbase but the premise sounds really horrible(in an oh my god why way not a this is unwatchable way)

 

the main character was raped and committed suicide 'cause nobody would help her

 

except her 13 part video suicide note kinda makes it seem like she's a terrifying psychological bully

 

first off, only 3 people are directly responsible for her suicide

1. her rapist

2. her stalker

and

3. the teacher she came to who refused to believe she had been raped and refused to help her

 

she chooses to also call out 10 additional people who didn't actually do anything just because of the "butterfly effect" (the people in question had NO IDEA she'd been raped or that she was suicidal but they happened to say the wrong thing at the wrong time so she chooses to call them murderers in her suicide note)

 

she even made one entry for a guy named "Clay" who she said did nothing wrong, and didn't deserve to be in her callout list, but she called him out anyway just cause she felt like it, he attempts to commit suicide as well, her friend Tony stops him (because it would appear he suspected making Clay commit suicide as well was her intention, he even tried to stop Clay from seeing the tape aimed at him)

 

allegedly the show is supposed to have the message that "morality isn't black and white" and  "little things you do can have big consequences"

 

but having a girl try to bully innocent people into suicide because of something they had nothing to do with seems like a strange way to make that point

 

[Mini_ghost420]

is 13 reasons why the title of the thing?

[stilgar]

So, would you have liked it if there were more gay characters in it?

[mochi]

is 13 reasons why the title of the thing?

that's the name of the show

[mochi]

So, would you have liked it if there were more gay characters in it?

there are 3

 

her suicide note says they(well two of them) murdered her by not being supportive (even though they did nothing to her) so no

[Mini_ghost420]

I agree with you this sounds like a good message but poorly executed

[mochi]

I agree with you this sounds like a good message but poorly executed

exactly

 

if she weren't goading a bunch of her grieving friends into feeling like "you should be the ones dead not me" the message would've come across a lot better

[Mini_ghost420]

I agree with that 100%

[Bouvre]

I didn't know anything about the show,

but now I'm thinking maybe this might be worth a watch.

[mochi]

I didn't know anything about the show,

but now I'm thinking maybe this might be worth a watch.

I'm tempted to but I dunno if I wanna watch a girl try to goad people into suicide from beyond the grave with hateful little callout videos just because she wants company in her misery

[Bouvre]

I'm tempted to but I dunno if I wanna watch a girl try to goad people into suicide from beyond the grave with hateful little callout videos just because she wants company in her misery

It probably is poor execution trying to elicit sorrow FOR the character, but a part of me, despite its execution,

is fascinated with a shitty character who committed suicide, and who we get to see be shitty on screen.

Characters who commit suicide are usually given a sort of romanticized martyr treatment,

and I kind of want to see that backfire? I kind of want to see a character who's an asshole despite committing suicide

and having all this unresolved pain? Even if it's not their intention as creators, it would be an interesting voice to pursue,

and an interesting tension especially if the protagonist had a crush on her.

[mochi]

It probably is poor execution trying to elicit sorrow FOR the character, but a part of me, despite its execution,

is fascinated with a shitty character who committed suicide, and who we get to see be shitty on screen.

Characters who commit suicide are usually given a sort of romanticized martyr treatment,

and I kind of want to see that backfire? I kind of want to see a character who's an asshole despite committing suicide

and having all this unresolved pain? Even if it's not their intention as creators, it would be an interesting voice to pursue,

and an interesting tension especially if the protagonist had a crush on her.

true (and based on what I've been told that seems to be the exact direction the show is going, showing that the character who comitted suicide is just as awful a person as some of the people she's blaming, not that she deserved it, but that for all her pain, she's also cruel and vindictive for choosing to inflict pain and direct non-existant blame onto others who've basically done nothing because she was just a shitty person)

[Bouvre]

I feel like it's easier to avoid romanticizing suicide by having her be a dynamic, if vindictive and manipulative, character.

[mochi]

I feel like it's easier to avoid romanticizing suicide by having her be a dynamic, if vindictive and manipulative, character.

from what I understand the fanbase is having a tendancy to miss the fact that she's psychologically tormenting her "friends" by blaming them and are actually siding with her

(even going so far as to say the guy who even she admits did nothing wrong (Clay) is awful, for what exactly nobody knows, not even the girl)

 

the only main character not on her shit-list was Tony, and it seems to be that he's just not on it because she wanted him to find her dead body and show her shit-list suicide note tapes to everyone else (which he apparently tried not to do)

[fuggnificent]

i think you may have to have been a teenage girl at some point to understand why the littlest things added up and pushed her over the edge. to understand what it feels like to lose your friend (s), have the guy you like brag to his buddies about you then date you ex best friend, miss out on loving somebody because of fear, be raped and see your rapist get off scott free.... some are missing because these are the ones i actually experienced. i dont think she's blaming them as much as saying why...most suicides ARE because of other people...its not fair..its not right...but thats what the author is trying to get across and he needed to... people are more cruel than ever and the shit needs to stop.

[mochi]

i think you may have to have been a teenage girl at some point to understand why the littlest things added up and pushed her over the edge. to understand what it feels like to lose your friend (s), have the guy you like brag to his buddies about you then date you ex best friend, miss out on loving somebody because of fear, be raped and see your rapist get off scott free.... some are missing because these are the ones i actually experienced. i dont think she's blaming them as much as saying why...most suicides ARE because of other people...its not fair..its not right...but thats what the author is trying to get across and he needed to... people are more cruel than ever and the shit needs to stop.

she is blaming them though, and as a result of her videos a school shooting happens

[God-Says-No]

there are 3

 

her suicide note says they(well two of them) murdered her by not being supportive (even though they did nothing to her) so no

 

man i was gona rip you apart in the other thread because your reviews and opinions are such trash if gays appear in the show

 

on the note of the show

3 gay characters - only 1 affected her she trusted tony with the tapes he wasnt a reason

 

 

I swear we could get a show with trans as the main characters in it and you would find a way to hate it just because some one would be wearing a certain shade of blue you hate....

 

my opinion of the show has to be overall decent if you liked the book then you would like the series as netflix didnt stray that far away from it

[mochi]

man i was gona rip you apart in the other thread because your reviews and opinions are such trash if gays appear in the show

 

on the note of the show

3 gay characters - only 1 affected her she trusted tony with the tapes he wasnt a reason

 

 

I swear we could get a show with trans as the main characters in it and you would find a way to hate it just because some one would be wearing a certain shade of blue you hate....

 

my opinion of the show has to be overall decent if you liked the book then you would like the series as netflix didnt stray that far away from it

implication is that the gay characters get killed in a school shooting in the final episode though (from what someone told me) as a direct result of her tapes

 

also she claims everyone on the tapes is responsible for her death(and almost drives one of them to suicide along with her)

[God-Says-No]

implication is that the gay characters get killed in a school shooting in the final episode though (from what someone told me) as a direct result of her tapes

 

also she claims everyone on the tapes is responsible for her death(and almost drives one of them to suicide along with her)

 

the implication that some one dies

that was

Jeff, clay's friend which comes out in the tapes about the downed stop down

 

far as people being responsible

im sure they all did play a part except clay but each bit adding up and she couldnt deal with it not that all people added equal amounts but pretty sure it was you know the rape...

 

[mochi]

the implication that some one dies

that was

Jeff, clay's friend which comes out in the tapes about the downed stop down

 

far as people being responsible

im sure they all did play a part except clay but each bit adding up and she couldnt deal with it not that all people added equal amounts but pretty sure it was you know the rape...

 

blaming a bunch of unrelated people for your suicide and making a bunch of callot "you should all be dead instead of me" tapes when only 3 people deserved it

(her Rapist her Stalker and the teacher who dismissed her) implies a level of sociopathy on her behalf

 

the other 7 people her tapes called out did not need to be called out, and as a result of her doing it, (occording to the show) several of them appear to get killed, Hannah is not guiltless

[God-Says-No]

blaming a bunch of unrelated people for your suicide and making a bunch of callot "you should all be dead instead of me" tapes when only 3 people deserved it

(her Rapist her Stalker and the teacher who dismissed her) implies a level of sociopathy on her behalf

 

the other 7 people her tapes called out did not need to be called out, and as a result of her doing it, (occording to the show) several of them appear to get killed, Hannah is not guiltless

 

I agree with that

clay was there only to clarify stuff for him

but for others who kinda stopped being friends or being dickish/bad friends didnt need to be called out it but then the show/book wouldve been called 3 reason why

[mochi]

I agree with that

clay was there only to clarify stuff for him

but for others who kinda stopped being friends or being dickish/bad friends didnt need to be called out it but then the show/book wouldve been called 3 reason why

frankly the story should have been called 3 reasons why cause blaming 13 people just makes the victim look like an asshole

 

that's all I'm saying....it's hard to feel bad for someone that bitter that she'd call a bunch of random people who did nothing other than say the wrong thing murderers

[André Toulon]

My girl was watching this yesterday and it was like having a root canal in my eyes.......I made her go home so I could watch something good on TV

[quebecelegy]

read the book a long time ago and thought it was ok in spite of the general awfulness that comes from teen novels

from what im seeing it doesn't look like selena gomez is in it so i might watch it after i reread the book

[1pooh4u]

implication is that the gay characters get killed in a school shooting in the final episode though (from what someone told me) as a direct result of her tapes

 

also she claims everyone on the tapes is responsible for her death(and almost drives one of them to suicide along with her)

Watch the show mochi instead of making baseless claims over what you hear.

I honestly thought the premise sounded horrible but as I gave the show a second go I actually liked it and deeply empathized with Hannah Baker.

 

First of all she laid blame as she saw it and told the truth about her experiences.  It's about how false rumours and slut shaming led to her demise and the people she considered friends abused her and threw her under the bus and YES 2 of the 3 know gay characters were absolutely horrible to her.  1 for posting her poem in a school rag and the other for straight out lying when they hung out got drunk and Courtney(i think that was her name) kissed Hannah and Tyler (unknown to COurtney and Hanna took pics of it and posted them online.

 

 

Just sayin you need to watch it before going bananas over something you have no idea about

[mochi]

Watch the show mochi instead of making baseless claims over what you hear.

I honestly thought the premise sounded horrible but as I gave the show a second go I actually liked it and deeply empathized with Hannah Baker.

 

First of all she laid blame as she saw it and told the truth about her experiences.  It's about how false rumours and slut shaming led to her demise and the people she considered friends abused her and threw her under the bus and YES 2 of the 3 know gay characters were absolutely horrible to her.  1 for posting her poem in a school rag and the other for straight out lying when they hung out got drunk and Courtney(i think that was her name) kissed Hannah and Tyler (unknown to COurtney and Hanna took pics of it and posted them online.

 

 

Just sayin you need to watch it before going bananas over something you have no idea about

well then I have to default to asking

 

why would I wanna watch a show because it has Gay characters, if it's Gay character are actually horrible and unlikeable?

[1pooh4u]

I agree with that

clay was there only to clarify stuff for him

but for others who kinda stopped being friends or being dickish/bad friends didnt need to be called out it but then the show/book wouldve been called 3 reason why

They did so need to be called out, Clay wasn't really "called out" at all and the others did things or didn't which led to her ever increasing feelings of anxiety, lonliness and depression.

[mochi]

They did so need to be called out, Clay wasn't really "called out" at all and the others did things or didn't which led to her ever increasing feelings of anxiety, lonliness and depression.

then why should I watch the show if every character is horrible?

 

 

I realize it's reaching but having a show full of horrible and cruel Gay characters comes across as homophobic to me

[1pooh4u]

well then I have to default to asking

 

why would I wanna watch a show because it has Gay characters, if it's Gay character are actually horrible and unlikeable?

Horrible is in the eye of the beholder really.  One dude thought he didn't do anything wrong as the poem was published anonymously and the other had her reasons, whatever they were, to hide who she was.

 

Your harsh condemnation of the main character is actually exactly the thing the show was trying to prevent.  You have to watch it to understand.

It's HS......HS is horrible, people do stupid things for a variety of reasons, the other gay character Tony, seemed to be the most together of all of them, honestly,

you do yourself a disservice by forming opinions without at least watching the show, I know, I almost did the same thing.

[1pooh4u]

then why should I watch the show if every character is horrible?

 

 

I realize it's reaching but having a show full of horrible and cruel Gay characters comes across as homophobic to me

Ugh, mochi, THEY ARE FUCKING TEENAGERS IN HS THAT DON'T REALIZE HOW THEIR ACTIONS IMPACT OTHERS, A COMMON PROBLEM WITH BEING A TEENAGER WHEN YOU WANT TO BE POPULAR AND WELL LIKED!

[enad]

there are 3

 

her suicide note says they(well two of them) murdered her by not being supportive (even though they did nothing to her) so no

 

They should remake the series to be about Jesus and his 12 disciples explaining to the gay characters why they're going to Hell.

[mochi]

Horrible is in the eye of the beholder really.  One dude thought he didn't do anything wrong as the poem was published anonymously and the other had her reasons, whatever they were, to hide who she was.

 

Your harsh condemnation of the main character is actually exactly the thing the show was trying to prevent.  You have to watch it to understand.

It's HS......HS is horrible, people do stupid things for a variety of reasons, the other gay character Tony, seemed to be the most together of all of them, honestly,

you do yourself a disservice by forming opinions without at least watching the show, I know, I almost did the same thing.

I generally avoid shows like 13rw for several reasons

1. I hate Drama based shows, I'm more of an "escape from reality" TV watcher, it's why I watch Cartoons anime and Comedy shows, I generally choose to watch things that will make me smile, Dramas are supposed to do the opposite

2. when gay characters are included in Dramas they're always either horrible people, Stereotypes, or their whole lives are miserable, all three of which I take issue with

3. Drama shows go on too long and I find it harder to drop them than animated shows and comedies, so I'd have to devote way more time than I'd like to watch them

4. most Drama based shows have downright awful fanbases, 13rw is one such show (the fans are mostly of the belief that everyone Hannah called out is evil and deserves to die regardless of the severity of what they did or if they were aware of the consequences), which as you said of my opinion, also completely misses (what you claim) the point the show was trying to make

 

 

addendum:

 

I'm still mad at myself for getting trapped in the Riverdale fandom

 

BUT, I've chosen to seek comfort in the fact that the show is so bad (and the fact that it was originally pitched as a sitcom) that it's leading me to believe the show is bad on purpose for the sake of humor

[mochi]

They should remake the series to be about Jesus and his 12 disciples explaining to the gay characters why they're going to Hell.

don't give hollywood any ideas, it'll be TV's hottest new primetime Drama

[bigdick]

Like Looking For Alaska but better

 

 

 

which isn't saying much considering they're both still trash

 

 

 

One thing I liked about it though, is I think the way they depicted rape can be considered progressive.

Most TV shows/movies look for ways to make it even the slightest bit sexy, but this one has 2 of those scenes, and both are pretty cold, hollow, "wait slow down wut are you doing" concrete and unnerving; shows the victim's psyche realistically during and after for both characters as well. Does it justice and it should clear up a lot of the stupid shit people of today say on the subject.

[1pooh4u]

I generally avoid shows like 13rw for several reasons

1. I hate Drama based shows, I'm more of an "escape from reality" TV watcher, it's why I watch Cartoons anime and Comedy shows, I generally choose to watch things that will make me smile, Dramas are supposed to do the opposite

2. when gay characters are included in Dramas they're always either horrible people, Stereotypes, or their whole lives are miserable, all three of which I take issue with

3. Drama shows go on too long and I find it harder to drop them than animated shows and comedies, so I'd have to devote way more time than I'd like to watch them

4. most Drama based shows have downright awful fanbases, 13rw is one such show (the fans are mostly of the belief that everyone Hannah called out is evil and deserves to die regardless of the severity of what they did or if they were aware of the consequences), which as you said of my opinion, also completely misses (what you claim) the point the show was trying to make

 

 

addendum:

 

I'm still mad at myself for getting trapped in the Riverdale fandom

 

BUT, I've chosen to seek comfort in the fact that the show is so bad (and the fact that it was originally pitched as a sitcom) that it's leading me to believe the show is bad on purpose for the sake of humor

If you don't want to watch the show that's your right but then you can't discuss the show as though you know about it when in fact you never watched it

[DragonSinger]

Ugh, mochi, THEY ARE FUCKING TEENAGERS IN HS THAT DON'T REALIZE HOW THEIR ACTIONS IMPACT OTHERS, A COMMON PROBLEM WITH BEING A TEENAGER WHEN YOU WANT TO BE POPULAR AND WELL LIKED!

 

Maybe this is why, aside from issues that not just Mochi has touched on, I'm not interested in this show. When I was a teen, I just didn't get people who wanted to be popular, and it was hard to feel sorry for them when they made bad decisions based on that. As an adult, it's even more annoying to watch.

[1pooh4u]

Maybe this is why, aside from issues that not just Mochi has touched on, I'm not interested in this show. When I was a teen, I just didn't get people who wanted to be popular, and it was hard to feel sorry for them when they made bad decisions based on that. As an adult, it's even more annoying to watch.

Being far from HS and having no kids, I almost forgot how terrible HS was and I wasn't popular at all, hung out with stoners didn't give a fuck, this show reminded me of all that.

 

The teens weren't the only awful thing and they weren't necessarily awful, just teens being teens, it was actually some of the adults that left me like  whut

 

 

There was legit one truly bad apple Bryce, the white privileged rapist

 

[mochi]

I don't know anything about this show yet, but you seem to be criticizing the show because the character is a bad person. People aren't perfect & main characters can be shitty people. Not everything even has to have a positive message.

my only real point is that the suicide victim seems like a shitty person as well

 

and that....to be blunt, the 7 bystanders she called out as part of her "13 reasons why" are actually a lot less shitty than her

were they unsupportive?, yes, is that abnormal for teenagers?, no, so for her to tell her friends "you killed me!" just because they didn't know the right thing to say or do to comfort her (which is NORMAL at their age) implies....a really huge amount of egotism and cruelty on her behalf

 

the 3 people actually responsible DID deserve to be called out, had she not blamed her friends for killing her she'd look much better

[DragonSinger]

I don't know anything about this show yet, but you seem to be criticizing the show because the character is a bad person. People aren't perfect & main characters can be shitty people. Not everything even has to have a positive message.

 

Another thing. I understand kids can be shitty, but I can't think of anyone who attempted or succeeded in killing themselves(with the exception of mass shooters) that would leave behind tapes like this. Not for moral reasons, but who reaches a state where they genuinely want to end their lives and are like, 'Hey, I'm gonna record a totz dramatic suicide note in the form of several tapes blaming everyone, including my friends for my death, and then mail them to a special person'? This doesn't even register as a weird white people thing to me, just completely ignorant of actual suicide.

[mochi]

Another thing. I understand kids can be shitty, but I can't think of anyone who attempted or succeeded in killing themselves(with the exception of mass shooters) that would leave behind tapes like this. Not for moral reasons, but who reaches a state where they genuinely want to end their lives and are like, 'Hey, I'm gonna record a totz dramatic suicide note in the form of several tapes blaming everyone, including my friends for my death, and then mail them to a special person'? This doesn't even register as a weird white people thing to me, just completely ignorant of actual suicide.

I know right!, I mean I know it's a work of fiction but, I mean

 

what suicidal person, ever, has left behind a manifesto listing out their FRIENDS as evil conspirers responsible for their death?

[fuggnificent]

I know right!, I mean I know it's a work of fiction but, I mean

 

what suicidal person, ever, has left behind a manifesto listing out their FRIENDS as evil conspirers responsible for their death?

 

Do you really think people dont somewhat blame their friends/family when they commit suicide?

 

http://slightlywarped.com/crapfactory/curiosities/2011/june/suicide_notes.htm