Railroad unions threaten strike over sick leave demands

[matrixman124]

 

 

[Jman]

Considering how important rail is to the supply chain, I really hope they get what they want.

[Sawdy]

Nurses, teachers, now railway workers striking in different areas of the country…idk… sounds like we really should be supporting the critical folks in our country with safer work environments, better wages and not take advantage of them for 40+ hours a week…

but I’m just over here

Edited September 15, 2022 by Sawdy

[matrixman124]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/biden-announces-tentative-deal-avert-us-rail-strike-rcna47850

[Jman]

59 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/biden-announces-tentative-deal-avert-us-rail-strike-rcna47850

If it holds that isn’t a bullet dodged, it’s a freaking HIMARS dodged.  Ask the Russians how that feels.

[matrixman124]

Looks like a lot of union members are pissed

 

 

[katt_goddess]

7 hours ago, Sawdy said:

Nurses, teachers, now railway workers striking in different areas of the country…idk… sounds like we really should be supporting the critical folks in our country with safer work environments, better wages and not take advantage of them for 40+ hours a week…

but I’m just over here

"Essential workers" are exempt from all those things.

That's why they were given a shit-tier title that could be used to force them back to work while their bosses, who rely on them to make the money, could self-quarantine and still make their boat payments. 

[matrixman124]

5 minutes ago, katt_goddess said:

"Essential workers" are exempt from all those things.

That's why they were given a shit-tier title that could be used to force them back to work while their bosses, who rely on them to make the money, could self-quarantine and still make their boat payments. 

Yep

[Raptorpat]

6 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

Looks like a lot of union members are pissed

It's now the union's job to sell this agreement to their members before the ratification vote. If the ratification fails, not only are the negotiations back at square one, but the union leaders are effectively handed a vote of "no confidence".

It feels similar to the fallout from the entertainment workers' near-strike.

[matrixman124]

7 hours ago, Raptorpat said:

It's now the union's job to sell this agreement to their members before the ratification vote. If the ratification fails, not only are the negotiations back at square one, but the union leaders are effectively handed a vote of "no confidence".

It feels similar to the fallout from the entertainment workers' near-strike.

Good

[scoobdog]

2 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

Good

Not really.  Should have gotten right the first time.

[matrixman124]

6 hours ago, scoobdog said:

Not really.  Should have gotten right the first time.

Of course. But it's good the union members can turn down a bad deal.

[scoobdog]

7 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

Of course. But it's good the union members can turn down a bad deal.

Well they deserve and have every right to exercise that veto.  Still not good if it ends up leading to a strike anyway.

[matrixman124]

3 hours ago, scoobdog said:

Well they deserve and have every right to exercise that veto.  Still not good if it ends up leading to a strike anyway.

I mean it's their right to strike. They need to be given a new deal. Of course it sucks that it will shut down rail lines, but we need to be clear that it's not the railroad workers fault

[matrixman124]

Congress may pass law to make a potential railroad strike illegal. That no good.

[scoobdog]

7 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Congress may pass law to make a potential railroad strike illegal. That no good.

See what I mean?  Anyway, I doubt it will come to that.  Biden would probably veto it if it got that far.

[matrixman124]

25 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

See what I mean?  Anyway, I doubt it will come to that.  Biden would probably veto it if it got that far.

It would set a really bad precedent if it actually passed.

[Raptorpat]

Quote

OMAHA, Neb. (AP) — The U.S.’s third largest railroad union rejected a deal with employers Monday, renewing the possibility of a strike that could cripple the economy. B oth sides will return to the bargaining table before that happens.

Over half of track maintenance workers represented by the Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employes Division who voted opposed the five-year contract despite 24% raises and $5,000 in bonuses. Union President Tony Cardwell said the railroads didn’t do enough to address the lack of paid time off — particularly sick time — and working conditions after the major railroads eliminated nearly one-third of their jobs over the past six years.

“Railroaders are discouraged and upset with working conditions and compensation and hold their employer in low regard. Railroaders do not feel valued,” Cardwell said in a statement. “They resent the fact that management holds no regard for their quality of life, illustrated by their stubborn reluctance to provide a higher quantity of paid time off, especially for sickness.”

The group that represents the railroads in negotiations said they were disappointed the union rejected the agreement, but emphasized that no immediate threat of a strike exists because the union agreed to keep working for now.

Four other railroad unions have approved their agreements with freight railroads including BNSF, Union Pacific, Kansas City Southern, CSX and Norfolk Southern, but all 12 unions representing 115,000 workers must ratify their contracts to prevent a strike. Another union, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, initially rejected its deal but has since renegotiated a new contract. Voting will be completed in mid-November.

https://apnews.com/article/business-economy-government-and-politics-0744cffe919f0d48fcc02d16c8a298b3

[matrixman124]

6 hours ago, Raptorpat said:

https://apnews.com/article/business-economy-government-and-politics-0744cffe919f0d48fcc02d16c8a298b3

[Raptorpat]

I believe only 5 of 8 (I think) unions have ratified the agreement with three holdouts (I think) and the deadline a few days out. So Congress going to vote to approve the contract and preempt a shutdown.

Edit: just walked into this article that says part of the reason they didn't extend negotiations again (on top of the consensus that they stalemated), is that a Republican house would have leverage to impose a worse deal https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/29/bidens-congress-halt-rail-strike-00071251

[matrixman124]

Yeah this is looking very ugly. The Biden administration is basically trying to stop the unions from exercising their rights as unions to prevent the strikes. More negotiations are needed here, not capitulation to the rail companies.

[scoobdog]

I wonder how the Republicans will push a worse deal, unless the point is that if the deal is rejected, the rail companies can back out of the deal and the Republicans will stand by?

[1pooh4u]

These workers get no sick days they deserve to have paid sick time. Biden is wrong to put this on the workers when they can’t even have a sick day. What else are they demanding other than 4 days pd sick leave 

[Raptorpat]

1 hour ago, scoobdog said:

I wonder how the Republicans will push a worse deal, unless the point is that if the deal is rejected, the rail companies can back out of the deal and the Republicans will stand by?

three of the unions rejected it, so those technically have no deal

[scoobdog]

27 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

three of the unions rejected it, so those technically have no deal

Well, yes.  It’s presumed the rest have approved on the condition that the rejected ones will agree, though.

[NewBluntsworth]

Biden is trash. 

 

 

[matrixman124]

1 hour ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Biden is trash. 

 

 

 

They should go on strike. Nobody is taking their threats seriously.

[NewBluntsworth]

11 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

They should go on strike. Nobody is taking their threats seriously.

Absolutely. Got the fake FDR President and the Democratic-controlled Congress breathing down their necks, trying to pit the American public against them, telling these critically essential union workers to shut up and quit whining about unreasonable luxuries like "sick days" and go back to work on whatever terms the giant billionaire conglomerate claims should be acceptable, FUCK OFF

Edited November 30, 2022 by NewBluntsworth
Dems are trash

[Master-Debater131]

Ive heard that at this point the Union would be willing to sign the deal if they get 4 sick days a year.

4 days.
Thats pitiful. Just give them the damn 4 days. If your business cant handle people potentially getting sick for 4 days a year then its horribly managed.

Gotta say, Im on the side of the Union in this one.

[Poofy]

2 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

Ive heard that at this point the Union would be willing to sign the deal if they get 4 sick days a year.

4 days.
Thats pitiful. Just give them the damn 4 days. If your business cant handle people potentially getting sick for 4 days a year then its horribly managed.

Gotta say, Im on the side of the Union in this one.

Not v free market of you. Thats not the only issue anyway, but the media amirite. The workers also don't want jobs replaced by automation. The companies believe we're at a place w/automation where we don't need 2 people on every train, they want to let suitable trains go out with a single engineer

[scoobdog]

Rare we're all in agreement.  I honestly don't see the reason for trying to push this through given how reasonable the demands are and how rail owners have a vested interest in agreeing to them in..  At best, it makes Biden look like he's jumpy when he should be projecting confidence in the process.

[matrixman124]

2 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Rare we're all in agreement.  I honestly don't see the reason for trying to push this through given how reasonable the demands are and how rail owners have a vested interest in agreeing to them in..  At best, it makes Biden look like he's jumpy when he should be projecting confidence in the process.

It makes him look like he's afraid to make rail owners and Republicans upset

[PenguinBoss]

 

[scoobdog]

1 hour ago, matrixman124 said:

It makes him look like he's afraid to make rail owners and Republicans upset

More like he's trying to avoid looking like he failed a negotiation.  A deal that complex isn't solved in a matter of a week, and just the fact he got involved was enough to prevent a strike given the circumstances. (Yeah, I know the other unions were still threatening, but they wouldn't as long as the negotiations continued). He just got trigger happy when he probably should have had a little more faith in the parties to get the job done without causing an infrastructural shutdown.

[matrixman124]

5 hours ago, scoobdog said:

More like he's trying to avoid looking like he failed a negotiation.  A deal that complex isn't solved in a matter of a week, and just the fact he got involved was enough to prevent a strike given the circumstances. (Yeah, I know the other unions were still threatening, but they wouldn't as long as the negotiations continued). He just got trigger happy when he probably should have had a little more faith in the parties to get the job done without causing an infrastructural shutdown.

All he had to do was arm twist the rail companies to relent to the sick days. That's it. He is too afraid of upsetting them and any Republicans who could be up for bipartisan legislature.

[scoobdog]

1 hour ago, matrixman124 said:

All he had to do was arm twist the rail companies to relent to the sick days. That's it. He is too afraid of upsetting them and any Republicans who could be up for bipartisan legislature.

To be fair, he has more to lose politically if there is strike than if there isn’t, so, yeah, that is part of it.

[matrixman124]

55 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

To be fair, he has more to lose politically if there is strike than if there isn’t, so, yeah, that is part of it.

Getting the rail companies to acquiesce would prevent the strikes though

[scoobdog]

3 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

Getting the rail companies to acquiesce would prevent the strikes though

That begs the questions of either why the unions couldn’t get them to acquiesce or why the government got involved.

[matrixman124]

4 hours ago, scoobdog said:

That begs the questions of either why the unions couldn’t get them to acquiesce or why the government got involved.

Because the rail companies don't want to give them more benefits because it cuts into their profits. They're being greedy and they think they can get away with it because they know the government will intervene to prevent the strike because of how devastating it would be.

Edited December 1, 2022 by matrixman124

[scoobdog]

5 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

Because the rail companies don't want to give them more benefits because it cuts into their profits. They're being greedy and they think they can get away with it because they know the government will intervene to prevent the strike because of how devastating it would be.

Not what I meant.  It’s obvious they’re understaffing to cut corners, but why don’t the unions have leverage in the negotiations?  The rail companies certainly wouldn’t have called a pro Union POTUS to the negotiations unless they knew something.  My money is there’s some corruption in the union leadership that’s preventing them from being in lockstep.

[matrixman124]

13 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Not what I meant.  It’s obvious they’re understaffing to cut corners, but why don’t the unions have leverage in the negotiations?  The rail companies certainly wouldn’t have called a pro Union POTUS to the negotiations unless they knew something.  My money is there’s some corruption in the union leadership that’s preventing them from being in lockstep.

What I'm saying is that the Democrats and Republicans are probably in the rail companies' pockets because lobbying. I don't think Biden deserves the benefit of the doubt when the solution is so simple and apparent.

He's more focused on working with the Republicans to prevent the strike instead of working with the unions to prevent the strike. And the Republicans will always favor the rail companies over the workers.

Edited December 1, 2022 by matrixman124

[scoobdog]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

What I'm saying is that the Democrats and Republicans are probably in the rail companies' pockets because lobbying. I don't think Biden deserves the benefit of the doubt when the solution is so simple and apparent.

I know what you're saying, and I agree.  Regardless of what you think about who's in who's pocket, it's generally agreed that getting the government (or any third party) involved is usually a bad idea.  Why even call on them when the solution is, as you say, simple and apparent?

Anyway you look at it, we're looking at the back-end of a botched negotiation, and it seems to be pointing to bigger issues than just a government that's corrupt and/or hamstrung.  The government shouldn't be involved in the first place, and the only two reasons I can think of for why they are is (a) the Biden administration is so sensitive they're preemptively inserting themselves into the negotiations, and (b) the negotiations are a disorganized mess and the government is needed to  reign in one or both sides.

[matrixman124]

16 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

I know what you're saying, and I agree.  Regardless of what you think about who's in who's pocket, it's generally agreed that getting the government (or any third party) involved is usually a bad idea.  Why even call on them when the solution is, as you say, simple and apparent?

Anyway you look at it, we're looking at the back-end of a botched negotiation, and it seems to be pointing to bigger issues than just a government that's corrupt and/or hamstrung.  The government shouldn't be involved in the first place, and the only two reasons I can think of for why they are is (a) the Biden administration is so sensitive they're preemptively inserting themselves into the negotiations, and (b) the negotiations are a disorganized mess and the government is needed to  reign in one or both sides.

The unions would be unreasonable if the rail companies gave in to the sick day demands and the unions wanted more. The rail companies are giving them nothing.

Edited December 1, 2022 by matrixman124

[scoobdog]

3 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

The unions would be unreasonable if the rail companies gave in to the sick day demands and the unions wanted more. The rail companies are giving them nothing.

And the unions should strike.

[matrixman124]

3 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

And the unions should strike.

Bingo. And Biden doesn't want that (understandably) but instead of getting the rail companies to acquiesce, he's trying to essentially seize the unions' right to strike to prevent the strike. It's not a good look.

[scoobdog]

Just now, matrixman124 said:

Bingo. And Biden doesn't want that (understandably) but instead of getting the rail companies to acquiesce, he's trying to essentially seize the unions' right to strike to prevent the strike. It's not a good look.

It's beyond a bad look, though it likely doesn't mean much given his already low approval.  How did some of the unions initially come to an agreement on this bad deal while others did not?

[matrixman124]

2 hours ago, scoobdog said:

It's beyond a bad look, though it likely doesn't mean much given his already low approval.  How did some of the unions initially come to an agreement on this bad deal while others did not?

The offer is a wage increase and 1 paid sick day but no additional PTO besides that. Not all the unions agreed to that. So Congress will be forcing them to accept terms now. Pretty fucked up.

[scoobdog]

Just now, matrixman124 said:

The offer is a wage increase and 1 paid sick day but no additional PTO besides that. Not all the unions agreed to that. So Congress will be forcing them to accept terms now. Pretty fucked up.

See, that's my point.  Biden's failure here isn't diminished by the fact that the unions don't seem to be on the same page with some ratifying and others not.

[matrixman124]

56 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

See, that's my point.  Biden's failure here isn't diminished by the fact that the unions don't seem to be on the same page with some ratifying and others not.

Some unions are ratifying out of desperation. The rest know that it's a shit offer and want just a few days more.

[scoobdog]

Just now, matrixman124 said:

Some unions are ratifying out of desperation. The rest know that it's a shit offer and want just a few days more.

If they had stuck together, we wouldn't have had an opportunity for Biden's administration to latch on to a low-ball offer.