Putin: "Stick to the timeline!"

[SwimModSponges]

20 million expendable soldiers + war crimes

 

[matrixman124]

Just now, scoobdog said:

In keeping with this topic… how do you sequence Putin taking over all of Ukraine? 

Let's say Republicans take Congress, both houses, in the midterms, they could block any and all aid to Ukraine. Without our hardware and other aid, Ukraine won't be able to put up as strong of a fight against Russia which still has superior numbers. American military hardware is a huge advantage to have.

If Putin continues to be armed with drones and other hardware from Iran and elsewhere, they will continue to attack civilian centers and wear down on morale. From there, they would have a shot of taking out Ukraine.

It's not something that should be dismissed. It's a real possibility.

[scoobdog]

1 hour ago, matrixman124 said:

Let's say Republicans take Congress, both houses, in the midterms, they could block any and all aid to Ukraine. Without our hardware and other aid, Ukraine won't be able to put up as strong of a fight against Russia which still has superior numbers. American military hardware is a huge advantage to have.

If Putin continues to be armed with drones and other hardware from Iran and elsewhere, they will continue to attack civilian centers and wear down on morale. From there, they would have a shot of taking out Ukraine.

It's not something that should be dismissed. It's a real possibility.

It is not a real possibility based solely on the premise of the GOP cutting all funding (which is by no means a likelihood).  We’re not the only ones supplying arms and, should we stop, the Ukrainian military doesn’t suddenly become disarmed.  Overstating the danger is as problematic as understating it.

[matrixman124]

8 hours ago, scoobdog said:

It is not a real possibility based solely on the premise of the GOP cutting all funding (which is by no means a likelihood).  We’re not the only ones supplying arms and, should we stop, the Ukrainian military doesn’t suddenly become disarmed.  Overstating the danger is as problematic as understating it.

The best hardware is coming from us. The superior military hardware is the only thing that is able to help Ukraine deal with Russia's numbers. It would be a huge blow if they lost aid. And the GOP doesn't give a shit if that's an unpopular move or not. Their base wants us to stop helping Ukraine.

[SwimModSponges]

*their base wants to help russia

[Doom Metal Alchemist]

So, uh, how come MAGA doesn't like NATO? More importantly, why wouldn't Republicans politicians, MAGA or not, want NATO? What would they gain by disbanding it?

[Jman]

14 minutes ago, Doom Metal Alchemist said:

So, uh, how come MAGA doesn't like NATO? More importantly, why wouldn't Republicans politicians, MAGA or not, want NATO? What would they gain by disbanding it?

They’re in Putin’s pocket, so their interests are shared.  Although given a few comments from McConnel, he might be viewing this whole thing as a way to get rid of his benefactor without having to own up to anything.

[matrixman124]

20 minutes ago, Doom Metal Alchemist said:

So, uh, how come MAGA doesn't like NATO? More importantly, why wouldn't Republicans politicians, MAGA or not, want NATO? What would they gain by disbanding it?

Because they're isolationist. They don't want us involved in the global community. And if it helps Putin do whatever he wants, even better.

[Doom Metal Alchemist]

4 minutes ago, Jman said:

They’re in Putin’s pocket, so their interests are shared.  Although given a few comments from McConnel, he might be viewing this whole thing as a way to get rid of his benefactor without having to own up to anything.

Wouldn't disbanding NATO basically relinquish a WHOLE SHIT TON of control the U.S. has over the world? The Republicans aren't in Putin's pocket THAT Much.

[matrixman124]

6 minutes ago, Doom Metal Alchemist said:

Wouldn't disbanding NATO basically relinquish a WHOLE SHIT TON of control the U.S. has over the world? The Republicans aren't in Putin's pocket THAT Much.

You'd be surprised how many Americans want to completely isolate. You have folks who don't want to help other countries and then the folks that don't want us involved in foreign wars. Like these people exist.

[NewBluntsworth]

43 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Because they're isolationist. They don't want us involved in the global community.

Let me see if I got this right - they're isolationist imperialists, who want to give up a tool of imperialism in NATO, because they're in Putin's pocket + because they "don't want us involved in ""the global community""...which the US dominates with imperialism...

Incoherent

[NewBluntsworth]

1 hour ago, matrixman124 said:

The best hardware is coming from us. The superior military hardware is the only thing that is able to help Ukraine deal with Russia's numbers.

Wellllll, that plus all the thousands of US special forces fighting in Ukraine, + the combat-ready military regiments deployed to the region to "dissuade" Russia from doing anything like what America routinely does to its enemies throughout the world, + the many thousands of CIA operators both in Ukraine and at home directing and carrying out attacks against Russian targets like the Nordstream pipeline and the bridge in Crimea, + our global surveillance technology that tells them everything they need to know about what the battlefield looks like and which targets to attack, + all the western propaganda necessary to keep this open-ended proxy war going ad eternum despite the deleterious effects it is having on regular people's standard of living in America and Europe, not to mention the rest of the world like Africa where tens of millions are facing increasing hunger and starvation the longer this unwinnable war goes on, etc etc...

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[matrixman124]

18 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Let me see if I got this right - they're isolationist imperialists, who want to give up a tool of imperialism in NATO, because they're in Putin's pocket + because they "don't want us involved in ""the global community""...which the US dominates with imperialism...

Incoherent

It would be confusing for you since you think the GOP and the Democrats are the same which they are not. 

[matrixman124]

8 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Wellllll, that plus all the thousands of US special forces fighting in Ukraine, + the combat-ready military regiments deployed to the region to "dissuade" Russia from doing anything like what America routinely does to its enemies throughout the world, + the many thousands of CIA operators both in Ukraine and at home directing and carrying out attacks against Russian targets like the Nordstream pipeline and the bridge in Crimea, + our global surveillance technology that tells them everything they need to know about what the battlefield looks like and which targets to attack, + all the western propaganda necessary to keep this open-ended proxy war going ad eternum despite the deleterious effects it is having on regular people's standard of living in America and Europe, not to mention the rest of the world like Africa where tens of millions are facing increasing hunger and starvation the longer this unwinnable war goes on, etc etc...

 

I thought you'd be happy since a GOP victory would ensure that such forces would get pulled out.

[NewBluntsworth]

13 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

It would be confusing for you since you think the GOP and the Democrats are the same which they are not. 

Right, Democrats are real Americans who want to preserve America's global hegemony, Republicans are in the pocket of Big Russia and want to wind down American imperialism by disbanding NATO

🤡

Edited October 24, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[NewBluntsworth]

7 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

I thought you'd be happy since a GOP victory would ensure that such forces would get pulled out.

Buddy, if I thought the Republican party had any interest in doing any of these fantastical anti-war and anti-imperialist things you're claiming they support like disbanding NATO and ending the proxy war in Ukraine and leaving the rest of the world alone I would vote for them myself. Don't be such a rube. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[matrixman124]

5 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Right, Democrats are real Americans, Republicans are in the pocket of Big Russia and want to wind down American imperialism by disbanding NATO

🤡

You aren't seeing that the GOP is torn between the corporate neocons who are very swiftly losing power and the America First MAGA folks who are very quickly taking power on all levels of government. They are on the ballots this election. The midterms are going to be a real litmus test of how bad it's getting.

[matrixman124]

3 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Buddy, if I thought the Republican party had any interest in doing any of these fantastical anti-war and isolationist things you're claiming they support like disbanding NATO and ending the proxy war in Ukraine and leaving the rest of the world alone I would vote for them myself. Don't be such a rube. 

The old GOP no. The new GOP that is being made up of MAGA and QAnon isolationists yeah.

[NewBluntsworth]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

The old GOP no. The new GOP that is being made up of MAGA and QAnon isolationists yeah.

They're the same picture .jpg

You are living in a fantasy land. 

[matrixman124]

Just now, NewBluntsworth said:

They're the same picture .jpg

You are living in a fantasy land. 

[NewBluntsworth]

7 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

"America First means walking away from America's role as global hegemon and intentionally ushering in a brave new multipolar world where America sacrifices its plurality of global wealth, power, and influence by minding its own business and not waging imperialist wars all over the planet. That is why we must pray the Democrats win, to preserve America's domineering role of wearing the boot that has been pressing down on the throat of the rest of the world for many decades. I am very smart."

Edited October 24, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[matrixman124]

2 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

"America First means walking away from America's role as global hegemon and intentionally ushering in a brave new multipolar world where America minds its own business and doesn't wage imperialist wars all over the globe. That is why we must pray the Democrats win, to preserve America's domineering role of wearing the boot that has been pressing down on the throat of the rest of the world for many decades. I am very smart."

Just a reminder that Tulsi Gabbard and Glenn Greenwald exist and are actively platformed by right wing millionaires. And they're in support of isolationism. Hm. So weird.

[NewBluntsworth]

12 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Just a reminder that Tulsi Gabbard and Glenn Greenwald exist and are actively platformed by right wing millionaires. And they're in support of isolationism. Hm. So weird.

My guy .... Their schtick is literally appealing to anti-war and anti-imperialist people by using accurate leftist criticisms of American/Democratic foreign policy, and funneling the rubes among them into the arms of the decidedly pro-war and pro-imperialist Republican party as if what the GOP is offering is somehow fundamentally any different let alone better, but do continue to go off. This is really something. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[matrixman124]

4 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

My guy .... Their schtick is literally appealing to anti-war and anti-imperialist people by using accurate leftist criticisms of American/Democratic foreign policy, and funneling the rubes among them into the arms of the decidedly pro-war and pro-imperialist Republican party as if what the GOP is offering is somehow fundamentally different let alone better, but do continue to go off. This is really something. 

Trump was actively advocating for the US pulling out of NATO if they didn't pay the US more money for membership. The GOP is actively criticizing Ukraine and supporting Russia on all platforms. Maybe it wouldn't be a full isolationist policy but it would certainly head into the opposite direction of what we're doing now.

[NewBluntsworth]

2 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Maybe it wouldn't be a full isolationist policy but it would certainly head into the opposite direction of what we're doing now.

".....which would be TERRIBLE!"

Wow, it's so wild that MAGA and the PSL apparently have the same party line now on foreign policy, but nevertheless it is absolutely extremely true....I guess this proves horseshoe theory is really real after all!!!11!!1!!!1

[scoobdog]

4 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

The best hardware is coming from us. The superior military hardware is the only thing that is able to help Ukraine deal with Russia's numbers. It would be a huge blow if they lost aid. And the GOP doesn't give a shit if that's an unpopular move or not. Their base wants us to stop helping Ukraine.

I agree it would be, but that’s not the argument.  It’s simple:  will Putin succeed in annexing the entirety of Ukraine if the Republicans cut off all funding?  No.  He may permanently hold on to the parts of Ukraine if we cut off all funding, so that is a valid concern.  But, his reputation and that of his military suffered immensely because of the failed invasion regardless of what happens.

[matrixman124]

1 hour ago, scoobdog said:

I agree it would be, but that’s not the argument.  It’s simple:  will Putin succeed in annexing the entirety of Ukraine if the Republicans cut off all funding?  No.  He may permanently hold on to the parts of Ukraine if we cut off all funding, so that is a valid concern.  But, his reputation and that of his military suffered immensely because of the failed invasion regardless of what happens.

I imagine the worst they could do is oust Zelenskyy and make Ukraine into a puppet state. It could happen if the tide turns so we need to be wary. Russia has lost a lot but they still have a huge military force. Not to mention, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and others are greatly invested in pushing the GOP back in power since they know that would make their circumstances more favorable. Gotta be vigilant.

[scoobdog]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

I imagine the worst they could do is oust Zelenskyy and make Ukraine into a puppet state. It could happen if the tide turns so we need to be wary. Russia has lost a lot but they still have a huge military force. Not to mention, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and others are greatly invested in pushing the GOP back in power since they know that would make their circumstances more favorable. Gotta be vigilant.

Zelenskyy is untouchable at this point.  He was there for his country when they needed him, so he's earned their devotion.  That doesn't mean he'll be President forever, but he's going to have a lot greater say in who gets to succeed him than Putin does.

But I digress.  Concerns about the GOP taking over aren't unfounded, not the least because it seems pretty clear that the one pulling the strings isn't the craven-but-stalwart McConnell anymore.  We have a very unpredictable GOP base that's partially under the sway of a populist ideology that is lacking on fundamentals.  They'll be effective at destroying government systems and institutions without having any real capability of building any of it back.  If you want to be legitimately concerned about worst case scenarios, then you should definitely be concerned about how funding shortfalls will impact our own diplomatic concerns.  For instance, lack of funding could create a situation where we resort to active military involvement in Haiti instead of a preferred humanitarian mission that leaves the government mostly uninvolved.  To Sponges other point, it could also lead to us scaling back our NATO involvement at a time when being more actively involved in that would act as a deterrent for incursion on Europe by other bad actors.

It's not a simple matter of the GOP simply defunding our military because we all know that won't happen.  It's a matter of how the funding is utilized.

[SwimModSponges]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/garland-hold-news-conference-significant-national-security-cases-rcna53702

Posting here instead of the election thread, because i mean its gotta be russia, right?

Edited October 24, 2022 by SwimModSponges

[NewBluntsworth]

16 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/garland-hold-news-conference-significant-national-security-cases-rcna53702

Posting here instead of the election thread, because i mean its gotta be russia, right?

..... do you just not read past headlines?

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department has charged 13 individuals who tried to "unlawfully exert influence in the United States" for the People's Republic of China, U.S. officials allege.

[matrixman124]

1 minute ago, scoobdog said:

Zelenskyy is untouchable at this point.  He was there for his country when they needed him, so he's earned their devotion.  That doesn't mean he'll be President forever, but he's going to have a lot greater say in who gets to succeed him than Putin does.

But I digress.  Concerns about the GOP taking over aren't unfounded, not the least because it seems pretty clear that the one pulling the strings isn't the craven-but-stalwart McConnell anymore.  We have a very unpredictable GOP base that's partially under the sway of a populist ideology that is lacking on fundamentals.  They'll be effective at destroying government systems and institutions without having any real capability of building any of it back.  If you want to be legitimately concerned about worst case scenarios, then you should definitely be concerned about how funding shortfalls will impact our own diplomatic concerns.  For instance, lack of funding could create a situation where we resort to active military involvement in Haiti instead of a preferred humanitarian mission that leaves the government mostly uninvolved.  To Sponges other point, it could also lead to us scaling back our NATO involvement at a time when being more actively involved in that would act as a deterrent for incursion on Europe by other bad actors.

It's not a simple matter of the GOP simply defunding our military because we all know that won't happen.  It's a matter of how the funding is utilized.

Oh yeah sure. It won't go to Ukraine if the GOP take over. That's for sure.

I mean Sponges was basically saying what you're saying. Maybe just a slightly extreme version. We just need to take the threat from the GOP seriously.

[scoobdog]

38 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Oh yeah sure. It won't go to Ukraine if the GOP take over. That's for sure.

I mean Sponges was basically saying what you're saying. Maybe just a slightly extreme version. We just need to take the threat from the GOP seriously.

Nah.  Sponges really believes all of the Ukraine is going to collapse.  I mean, i understand where he's coming from and I appreciate his sense of urgency, but he has a tendency to buy into his own pessimism.

He tends to skew important conversations because of it.  The worst thing about Trump winning the presidency  is that Sponges felt like all his direst predictions were vindicated.

[matrixman124]

2 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Nah.  Sponges really believes all of the Ukraine is going to collapse.  I mean, i understand where he's coming from and I appreciate his sense of urgency, but he has a tendency to buy into his own pessimism.

He tends to skew important conversations because of it.  The worst thing about Trump winning the presidency  is that Sponges felt like all his direst predictions were vindicated.

I mean we really can't dismiss Trump as a one off fluke. It's a symptom of the disease of radicalization that's been ripping this country apart. Facebook and other platforms accelerated the conversion of many "normal" folks into bootlicking fascists and/or fascist sympathizers. We really can't underestimate the number of people in this country who think Trump is a prophet of Truth.

[scoobdog]

2 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

I mean we really can't dismiss Trump as a one off fluke. It's a symptom of the disease of radicalization that's been ripping this country apart. Facebook and other platforms accelerated the conversion of many "normal" folks into bootlicking fascists and/or fascist sympathizers. We really can't underestimate the number of people in this country who think Trump is a prophet of Truth.

It's not like he was the only one.  Here's the thing about Trump:  regardless of what people think about him and his brand of bullshit, he will always lack a masterplan.  He's a populist without any real ideology (other than his own cult of personality).  What he attempted to do with Zelenskyy ultimately shows why he continues to be a paper tiger and why he doesn't represent a true renaissance of the American Facist.

[matrixman124]

3 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

It's not like he was the only one.  Here's the thing about Trump:  regardless of what people think about him and his brand of bullshit, he will always lack a masterplan.  He's a populist without any real ideology (other than his own cult of personality).  What he attempted to do with Zelenskyy ultimately shows why he continues to be a paper tiger and why he doesn't represent a true renaissance of the American Facist.

His unpredictability makes him dangerous as hell. He's basically a cult leader who just loves riling up his cult.

The big difference now is that we have more Trump acolytes entering Congress this election and they are going to fight tooth and nail to ensure Trump gets re-elected in 2024. And it doesn't matter what he says, the new fascism is a collective doing what they think their leader likes and the leader being like "yeah sure I was totally going for that"

Edited October 24, 2022 by matrixman124

[SwimModSponges]

54 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

..... do you just not read past headlines?

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department has charged 13 individuals who tried to "unlawfully exert influence in the United States" for the People's Republic of China, U.S. officials allege.

Story updated after i posted. 

[SwimModSponges]

15 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

The worst thing about Trump winning the presidency  is that Sponges felt like all his direst predictions were vindicated.

I'd figure it was the attempted coup but what do i know.

[matrixman124]

1 minute ago, SwimModSponges said:

I'd figure it was the attempted coup but what do i know.

Right?

[scoobdog]

2 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said:

I'd figure it was the attempted coup but what do i know.

I'm not answering that.  The point is that your heart's in the right place, but your ideas are way off the map.

[matrixman124]

Just now, scoobdog said:

I'm not answering that.  The point is that your heart's in the right place, but your ideas are way off the map.

I mean he riled up a riot and basically all of his followers think that elections don't count if you lost. Like Sponges is being a tad fatalistic, but I totally see where he's coming from.

[scoobdog]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

I mean he riled up a riot and basically all of his followers think that elections don't count if you lost. Like Sponges is being a tad fatalistic, but I totally see where he's coming from.

Populists tend to do that.

[Master-Debater131]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/24/ukraine-war-heading-for-uncontrolled-escalation-says-russia

"Russia’s defence minister, Sergei Shoigu, has told western counterparts that the war in Ukraine is heading for an “uncontrolled escalation” amid evidence that the Kremlin is weighing how to respond to yet another anticipated battlefield defeat around the key southern city of Kherson.

With Russian troops setting up new defences for a fresh Ukrainian offensive in Luhansk in the country’s east as well, Moscow appears to be preparing the ground for yet further escalation, with discredited claims that Kyiv may be preparing to use a dirty bomb as a “false-flag operation” to blame Russia.

Refuting the Russian allegation, Nato Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said in an interview on Monday: “The allegation that Ukraine is preparing to use dirty bombs in Ukraine is absurd.”"

 

 

So sure looks like Russia might do something incredibly stupid when they lose Kherson in the near future. Russia is losing this war, and its growing extremely apparent that they would rather salt the Earth behind them than give Ukraine their territory back.

[scoobdog]

Well anyway....

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/politics/congress-democrats-reaction-ukraine-strategy/index.html

Can't say I oppose this move given the climate of our legislature, but direct diplomacy better mean something along the lines of "Get the fuck out of Ukraine and Crimea and we don't put a Red Notice on Putin."

[SwimModSponges]

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-says-its-forces-are-preparing-work-under-radioactive-contamination-2022-10-24/

[NewBluntsworth]

47 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-says-its-forces-are-preparing-work-under-radioactive-contamination-2022-10-24/

 

 

[NewBluntsworth]

 

Oh my god you guys, it looks like even the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus is in the pocket of Big Russia! Is this a progressive Democrat or a MAGA Republican? Who can tell anymore! Pramila Taylor-Green amirite?? Horseshoe theory!!1!!

Putin's puppets are everywhere, and their disinfo has clearly infected the minds of the majority of the American public, who for some reason want a negotiated end to this war! We need the Real Americans (tubby white liberals and "good, patriotic" Republicans) to stand up and make sure this war doesn't end until Putin does everything they want and Russia doesn't get anything that it wants!!! Nothing else should be acceptable because of some fake principles America doesn't actually stand for at all, regardless of the consequences on billions of other people!!!! This is the only reasonable position. /brainworms

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[SwimModSponges]

 

[scoobdog]

That's fucking creepy.

[scoobdog]

As to the dirty bomb "warning," it's somewhat safe to assume that the United States wouldn't risk bringing one of its own nuclear weapons into Ukraine, and with Ukraine formally a non-nuclear state, the Russians are the only ones who could reasonably bring such a weapon into Ukraine.

[Top Gun]

10 hours ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Buddy, if I thought the Republican party had any interest in doing any of these fantastical anti-war and anti-imperialist things you're claiming they support like disbanding NATO and ending the proxy war in Ukraine and leaving the rest of the world alone I would vote for them myself. Don't be such a rube. 

And there it is, folks.