batman Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part 1 and 2 Discussion

[DangerMouse]

1 hour ago, ben0119 said:

I thought maybe it was set to go off in the event of Bruce's death, like a trigger connected to his heart, and he did temporarily "die."  Either that or Alfred blew it up.

I wonder if Alfred was in on the plan or if he actually thought Bruce died.  If not, that's kind of fucked up since the stress from thinking Bruce died is what lead to his death.

Yes abrupt and no apparent funeral for him or Bruce honoring him or showing appreciation.

Yeah, the timer though at the beginning made it clear they set a self-destruct.

Yeah.

Yup, it was strange there was no epilogue for Bruce about Alfred if Alfred really died like it seemed like.

Edited August 23, 2020 by DangerMouse

[rpgamer]

3 hours ago, Daos said:

Keep in mind Batman should have killed the Joker long ago, and all these people would be alive.

Batman can't kill Joker because he represents a part of him.

Even here, we see that, in the end, Batman still couldn't kill him. Left him maimed and paralyzed, sure. But Joker had to finish the job himself.

Batman could no sooner kill Joker than he could conquer his own psychoses.

And given his last words to Joker, you could question whether he'll ever be rid of him for good.

"Stop laughing."

[ben0119]

49 minutes ago, rpgamer said:

Batman can't kill Joker because he represents a part of him.

Even here, we see that, in the end, Batman still couldn't kill him. Left him maimed and paralyzed, sure. But Joker had to finish the job himself.

Batman could no sooner kill Joker than he could conquer his own psychoses.

And given his last words to Joker, you could question whether he'll ever be rid of him for good.

"Stop laughing."

So wait the Joker killed himself?  To me it seemed like his neck was broken and he should be dead.  And he looked dead.  Then he started trolling again and then his neck snapped again on its own.  What the hell happened there?  Did Batman imagine or hallucinate those last words, or finish what the Joker would have said in his head after he was already dead, and that's why the Joker's head returned to the snapped position?  Or was he actually alive after that?  But what made his neck twist again on its own?  Did he use his own laughing gas on himself and that did it somehow?

But yeah, you have a good point there.

[Daos]

7 hours ago, ben0119 said:

That's crazy!

In theory, the no killing code would work except the Joker and other villains always escape from prison or Arkham haha.

Yeah except in this world they let criminals who have killed 600 people go on talk shows.

So uhhh probably better start killing these guys because the government definitely isn't looking out for the people here.

[CorbeauKarasu]

7 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

honestly i don't understand shows that try to be an anime parody and then act like "OOOOH Look big sparkly eyes and people talking like this is speed racer! it's anime"

have they even seen any anime?

it's like rap parodies that insert random swears, and don't focus on any subject matter besides overemphasizing stereotypes. the best parodies are always done by people who enjoy and appreciate what they're parodying. DBZ parodies that talk only about big hair and yelling are garbage. DBZ parodies that talk about Krillin always dying, Yamcha losing his woman to Vegeta, and Piccolo raising Gohan are fun.

[CorbeauKarasu]

9 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

in Anko's case with no more wars and fighting she got fat

but in Selina's case it's just....She Gave Up When Gotham Went Down the toilet after Batman's Retirement

you can't really justify Selina where as with Anko you can just say Peaceful Living made her soft

 

it was the red bean paste dango she was always eating. as much as i hate what kishimoto did to her, he DID have someone tell her in one of her earliest appearances, that if she kept eating them like that one day, her metabolism would fail her and she'd get fat.

[Daos]

15 hours ago, ben0119 said:

So wait the Joker killed himself?  To me it seemed like his neck was broken and he should be dead.  And he looked dead.  Then he started trolling again and then his neck snapped again on its own.  What the hell happened there?  Did Batman imagine or hallucinate those last words, or finish what the Joker would have said in his head after he was already dead, and that's why the Joker's head returned to the snapped position?  Or was he actually alive after that?  But what made his neck twist again on its own?  Did he use his own laughing gas on himself and that did it somehow?

But yeah, you have a good point there.

Supposedly he broke his own neck to frame batman for his death.

[Jman]

2 hours ago, Daos said:

Supposedly he broke his own neck to frame batman for his death.

Which is totally a Joker thing to do.  One last joke on Batman.

[Syon]

I haven't read the original comics for the Dark Knight Returns, but I find the internal politics of it to be really... all over the place? The first movie clearly has a bone to pick with the youth, but the second movie is extremely critical of the Reagan administration. There's a lot more there as well, but both movies kind of come across as the ranting of a bitter old man, and I'm not sure if that's because we're following the perspective of the film or Bruce Wayne. 

They're pretty wacky films, though. Fun stuff. 

[Daos]

I really don't like how they turned Superman into Captain Atom. Superman isn't supposed to be a US military asset. And he couldn't stop Green Arrow without ripping his arm off? Come on, that sounds like the Injustice version of Superman.

Why does Superman always forget that he has super speed when he fights batman? And super hearing to hear Oliver sneaking up on him? In one of the recent movies he can literally hear a heartbeat nearby and tell that it's a Gorilla's heartbeat.

The Russians launch a nuke that somehow disables all of the US with an EMP and the US does nothing to retaliate? Really?

I found the whole mutant thing a bit out of left field with very little explanation. Batman really thinks it's a great idea to have an army of complete morons that have absolutely no code of ethics other than following the best fighter? Yeah nothing could ever go wrong with that.

I don't like Batman being a 300 lb hulk, really goes against the entire concept of him being nimble and acrobatic. Like, every other version of batman is?

Pretty much all the new DC stuff.... Flashpoint... Justice League... Suicide Squad... is way better than this.

No Kevin Conroy as Batman is always a huge demerit.

The plot of the Injustice games is better. See? Superman gets it.

 

[HardcoreHunter]

5 minutes ago, Daos said:

I found the whole mutant thing a bit out of left field with very little explanation. Batman really thinks it's a great idea to have an army of complete morons that have absolutely no code of ethics other than following the best fighter? Yeah nothing could ever go wrong with that.

 

It was the 80s, that was just a common trope of what the future would be like. If not mutants than shit like cybernetics. 90s batman kinda introduces splicing to the series, so theres more of an explanation of where mutants come from, but done later. I think in the comic though they were born from industrial waste. In the comics batmans ethics were more murderous than they are now. There was a whole comic where he walls up KG Beast for trying to kill Ronald Reagan, then taunts him for days until he dies of thirst. 

 

That's some poe black cat shit. 

Later on batman becomes more of the moral compass of the justice league. This mainly comes up when Dr.Light who is oddly used TTGo as a comic relief villain. The reason Dr. Light isn't used in anything other than a kids goofy adaptation is because aside from being a light based bad guy, his other favorite thing to do is rape young women. He does it so much that the league has Zatanna change his mind to not rape. Batman flips shit and says this is wrong to just change someones mind; and he'll have to whistle blow on all of them for allowing this. In turn they erase Batmans memory 

 

And then there was the time where batman invited Green Lantern to discuss differences, in a room that he made entirely yellow, wearing a yellow bat suit with yellow paint on his skin and drinking lemonaid. For those who don't know Green Lanterns powers don't work on yellow. 

[Daos]

Most modern versions of GL retconned out that stupid yellow weakness =P

[ben0119]

On 8/23/2020 at 9:21 PM, Daos said:

Supposedly he broke his own neck to frame batman for his death.

How did the Joker break his own neck just by turning his head?  Was it the laughing gas?  He seemed contorted with an exaggerated expression when he died, like the people at the TV show.

[ben0119]

On 8/24/2020 at 8:45 PM, HardcoreHunter said:

It was the 80s, that was just a common trope of what the future would be like. If not mutants than shit like cybernetics. 90s batman kinda introduces splicing to the series, so theres more of an explanation of where mutants come from, but done later. I think in the comic though they were born from industrial waste. In the comics batmans ethics were more murderous than they are now. There was a whole comic where he walls up KG Beast for trying to kill Ronald Reagan, then taunts him for days until he dies of thirst. 

 

That's some poe black cat shit. 

Later on batman becomes more of the moral compass of the justice league. This mainly comes up when Dr.Light who is oddly used TTGo as a comic relief villain. The reason Dr. Light isn't used in anything other than a kids goofy adaptation is because aside from being a light based bad guy, his other favorite thing to do is rape young women. He does it so much that the league has Zatanna change his mind to not rape. Batman flips shit and says this is wrong to just change someones mind; and he'll have to whistle blow on all of them for allowing this. In turn they erase Batmans memory 

 

And then there was the time where batman invited Green Lantern to discuss differences, in a room that he made entirely yellow, wearing a yellow bat suit with yellow paint on his skin and drinking lemonaid. For those who don't know Green Lanterns powers don't work on yellow. 

Haha Daos summed things up pretty well.  I think Dark Knight Returns isn't meant to be completely serious and make sense?

It is still a good and fun watch though even for how nonsensical some of it is.

Still should have explained the mutants in the actual story.  But toxic waste seems better than gene splicing.  Good old toxic waste lol.

I am pretty sure Linkara reviewed most of those shitty comics lmao.

Why didn't the Justice League put Dr. Light in some kind of special prison instead of messing with his mind?  Why did the writers keep making him rape women?  The Justice League erasing Batman's mind is unethical too.

Edited August 30, 2020 by ben0119

[ben0119]

I thought that Batman got a wide and stocky, sort of strongman physique, due to his age?  But no his physique shape didn't just change.  He is actually HUGE now.

Isn't Superman's super speed used selectively in fights and situations anyway?  Maybe he can't use it constantly.

Yeah not sure why Superman would be a government lap dog.

Well the EMP took out everything electrical and electronic in the continental U.S. right?  But there should still be assets in Hawaii and Alaska, and bases across the world, unless that got EMP'd too hahaha.  But surely there were some secret installations as well?  Also weren't some things built to be shielded and isolated in the event of the EMP that comes with the nukes?  Surviving the blast is all well and good but if the tech doesn't work you can't retaliate.  I'm going to look into this more later but I swear that must have been taken into account.

Edited August 30, 2020 by ben0119

[OwlChemist81]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if, heaven forbid, something like this DID happen in the U.S., most essential services would be shielded.

Plus, it's also most definitely a myth that even the MOAB would throw the entire country into darkness. The worst it would do is turn the lights out on an area the size of a small state.

[HardcoreHunter]

@ben0119

The league being unethical was a trend for a while. It did pose an interesting debate though about ethics and free will. I think the writers wanted to have a parallel to chemical castration, or pill based lobotomy where you take drugs that retard functions in the brain that cause anger or arousal. Should these options be forced upon people and should they even get a choice given the nature of their crime.  

So it wasn't that the writers could just stop writing him as a rapist but more that they wanted an arc. 

[Daos]

Speaking of Justice League and Lobotomy, the Justice Lord Superman did exactly that.