OwlChemist81 Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 19 hours ago, PokeNirvash said: Still sticking with my theory that Klein used the 10-second revive on Asuna, while the microwave unit in Kirito's Nerve Gear meant to fry his brain if he died was non-functioning, hence why he lived. As for Kayaba forgetting why he made SAO a death game to begin with? Well, with as many questions as it raises, him being so busy being a genius inventor that he has no free time for himself is as good a reason for that as any. Actually, that is not a bad theory. After all, the item never said anything about them being brought back to the playing field in which they were resurrected. And I guess there's no way SHE would have known what the hell happened! Kirito's NerveGear malfunctioning is more consistent with what actually played out in the anime, so even though that's total deus ex machina, it's not a bad explanation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Owl Posted December 26, 2018 Share Posted December 26, 2018 Why is this still a thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 22 hours ago, mochi said: he didn't, like most shonen protagonist he has no interest in girls what-so-ever....then suddenly wants to smash the nearest girl in the final panel K now tell Ben that =P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Kuroko said: Why is this still a thing? Because Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 On 12/26/2018 at 10:00 AM, OwlChemist81 said: Kirito's NerveGear malfunctioning is more consistent with what actually played out in the anime, so even though that's total deus ex machina, it's not a bad explanation. No, it is a terrible explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 Good, terrible, an explanation's an explanation, let's leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) On 12/16/2018 at 5:22 PM, naraku360 said: That doesn't matter. He has to have built the software using something other than the device itself. We have only a few OS options because creating a new one and getting it on par with even the 90s or early 2000s would take a lifetime. Creating a from-scratch brand new OS to not only match contemporary Windows, Apple, Linux, or whatever but even exceed and transmit mental images on its own is an unreasonable task. You'd have to have to create a new OS, build the extraordinarily complex device to use it, bypass over 50 years of advancements in technology with, by your standards, no help from existing technology, then create a game well beyond modern ability, get it online and capable of sending an entire game far more advanced than modern technology in realtime. That's not even accounting for building an entirely new form of server compatible with the brand new device that's untouchable by existing technology. Even putting in a borderline human AI. By age 28. It also doesn't make sense for it to be produced by a server. You'd have to transmit an entire game to thousands of people simultaneously. I get that SAO is a future setting but it's not a very well-explored future. It's mostly just now but with cooler video game technology. There's no implication we'd have that kind of server power, that's terabytes of data being sent to an absurd number of people sent nonstop for 2+ years. That would take an absurd amount of energy. With MMOs, or any online game, like with any game, the game is installed to a system. For a older generation like your Atari through PS2(3?), XBox 360 [I think?] or Wii U, the game is on a cartridge or disc. A PS4, XBox One, or Switch, even with cloud save data, the game has to be installed to thd device itself. The reason we don't transmit most games on entirety over online connections is because the majority can still be played locally. With MMOs that's generally not the case, but you still need the device to have the software installed because otherwise it's an unreliable process where anything can go wrong. You lose the server and everyone loses the game itself. Backups, sure, it's still a silly way to do it that lacks understanding of how games function. It also doesn't account for disconnects. It's a similar situation for any of these trapped in a MMO settings, but what if the server goes down [a common occurrence for MMOs]? Does the entire population of players get melted brain syndrome? It's a relatively general problem within the genre that can be mitigated by the introduction of supernatural elements, like Log Horizon where they're actually in the world rather than the game. Suspension of disbelief is one thing, but the dude creating that much is insane and before 30 is fundamentally ludicrous. Even if he were to have a massive team of millions of people, I'm not buying this explanation. The inception of the simplest of computers took about as long as he's been alive. People make new OSes all the time. Well maybe not all the time, but it happens often enough. They did say this thing was the first of its kind, right? Or at least this level of realism and immersion? So it would have to be completely new technology and presumably OS. Bypass over 50 years of existing technology and with no help from existing technology? What the hell are you babbling about? Are you drunk? Anyway, the new season seems to be elaborating more on how SAO was made, so maybe more will be explained there. Well, there are plenty of real world visionaries and geniuses akin to Kayaba in the real world. Well Final Fantasy XI, the game world is on your computer or console, and the coordinates of your character and other data are on the servers. Maybe that's how other MMOs work, not sure. Probably would make more sense if the game world is in that game copy which is then installed to the device, but it seems like such a huge world to fit into such a small storage space. But, maybe the whole thing with it creating mental images somehow makes it take up less space. Not sure how it works! Evidently was never an issue. I'd imagine if Kayaba was able to create everything else described above, his network is probably pretty robust. Maybe they go into a "limbo" until connection is restored because I highly doubt that Kayaba wants people dying just from lost network connection. Of course, there's power outages and not much Kayaba could do about that. Though hospitals have back-up generators, because anyone on life support would die once power was cut. But, if you are going to be this nitpicky, I don't know how you could watch any sci-fi show. Just about every one has "holes" in it like that. Well, you've misunderstood what the show was trying to portray, obviously. But like I said, sci-fi probably just isn't for you. I know some people who don't watch sci-fi because "I couldn't believe that something like that could ever happen." Ok lol. Edited January 5, 2019 by ben0119 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 On 12/16/2018 at 6:49 PM, Daos said: If this was set in 2100 I'd suspend my disbelief a bit more. But... it's set in... 2022. It's almost 2019. That's 3 years from now. It takes Square like 10 years just to make a new Final Fantasy game. With a gazllion people working on it. Also Kirito was 14 when he entered SAO. 14. He learned all this stuff by the time he was 14. He's very competent. How many lines code would an AI contain? About a billion? Windows 10 has about 50 million. Kirito was very competent at transferring those billion lines of code in 30 seconds. SAO was originally written in 2002. So maybe Reki thought things would be that advanced by then. I mean we do have VR now but it's nothing like SAO. So, he'd be like other sci-fi, like Top_Gun mentioned, that never set their date far enough into the future. He probably didn't set it in 2100 because he was going for a near future "this could happen in our word" type thing, don't think he was trying for anything too fantastical and evidently didn't want a super futuristic world with flying cars (when are those finally coming again?) that would just distract from the game stuff anyway. Some of those games have had a lot of shit happen behind the scenes though, like with FFXV. It's... not that much to learn. Again, I can see how underachievers couldn't relate, but, it's not that crazy, especially for someone that's into tech like that, takes classes, spends a lot of time on it because it's their hobby.... Also remember that this is supposed to be the future with more advanced technology, so Kirito quickly taking to this isn't that crazy. Don't judge him by our modern day standards, but a kid that grows up in the future with more advanced technology than we currently have. He was raised in this world. It's like my generation and the ones after, it comes natural. You act like young people being good with technology and videogames is some crazy thing... maybe you're just old? Like I said, he hit copy and paste! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 On 12/22/2018 at 2:11 AM, naraku360 said: Yeah, but what about HxH where assassins are allowed to be Hunters by a chairman eventually highlighted as not especially caring about morals? The clown guy is an assassin? I thought he was just a psycho. And that chairman's organization apparently supersedes all of the world's governments, especially for all those card perks to work. Everyone with a Hunter Card has a license to kill, and people constantly kill each other all the time, Hunter or not, with no repercussions, but... a prison exists? A family of assassins' house is on a celebrity house tour, but if you go there you get killed. Ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 https://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/mythbusters-jr/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/a25718856/mythbusters-jr/ https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/la-et-st-mythbusters-jr-review-20190101-story.html Guess all these kids must be Mary Sues! How could they learn all that stuff at such a young age?! *shakes fist* Harumph! Damn brats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 By the way, if you'll check your DVR channel guide, you'll see that Toonami is airing episode 52 of Black Clover next week. So, it's been renewed and isn't going anywhere any time soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 hours ago, ben0119 said: https://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/mythbusters-jr/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/a25718856/mythbusters-jr/ https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/la-et-st-mythbusters-jr-review-20190101-story.html Guess all these kids must be Mary Sues! How could they learn all that stuff at such a young age?! *shakes fist* Harumph! Damn brats! Your brain still won't allow you to understand the concept of a Mary Sue huh? That's so sad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 8 hours ago, ben0119 said: People make new OSes all the time. Well maybe not all the time, but it happens often enough. They did say this thing was the first of its kind, right? Or at least this level of realism and immersion? So it would have to be completely new technology and presumably OS. Bypass over 50 years of existing technology and with no help from existing technology? What the hell are you babbling about? Are you drunk? Anyway, the new season seems to be elaborating more on how SAO was made, so maybe more will be explained there. Well, there are plenty of real world visionaries and geniuses akin to Kayaba in the real world. Well Final Fantasy XI, the game world is on your computer or console, and the coordinates of your character and other data are on the servers. Maybe that's how other MMOs work, not sure. Probably would make more sense if the game world is in that game copy which is then installed to the device, but it seems like such a huge world to fit into such a small storage space. But, maybe the whole thing with it creating mental images somehow makes it take up less space. Not sure how it works! Evidently was never an issue. I'd imagine if Kayaba was able to create everything else described above, his network is probably pretty robust. Maybe they go into a "limbo" until connection is restored because I highly doubt that Kayaba wants people dying just from lost network connection. Of course, there's power outages and not much Kayaba could do about that. Though hospitals have back-up generators, because anyone on life support would die once power was cut. But, if you are going to be this nitpicky, I don't know how you could watch any sci-fi show. Just about every one has "holes" in it like that. Well, you've misunderstood what the show was trying to portray, obviously. But like I said, sci-fi probably just isn't for you. I know some people who don't watch sci-fi because "I couldn't believe that something like that could ever happen." Ok lol. Jesus fucking Christ. You have to be able to display the coding to something before it works. That's how creating an image of any kind via computer happens. Are you to suggest he did the code blind until the device was able to display mental images? That's insane. If he didn't start with a computer, he didn't have anything to input the code to because it doesn't have a fucking screen. This literally is the simplest concept imaginable. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, ben0119 said: SAO was originally written in 2002. So maybe Reki thought things would be that advanced by then. I mean we do have VR now but it's nothing like SAO. So, he'd be like other sci-fi, like Top_Gun mentioned, that never set their date far enough into the future. He probably didn't set it in 2100 because he was going for a near future "this could happen in our word" type thing, don't think he was trying for anything too fantastical and evidently didn't want a super futuristic world with flying cars (when are those finally coming again?) that would just distract from the game stuff anyway. Some of those games have had a lot of shit happen behind the scenes though, like with FFXV. It's... not that much to learn. Again, I can see how underachievers couldn't relate, but, it's not that crazy, especially for someone that's into tech like that, takes classes, spends a lot of time on it because it's their hobby.... Also remember that this is supposed to be the future with more advanced technology, so Kirito quickly taking to this isn't that crazy. Don't judge him by our modern day standards, but a kid that grows up in the future with more advanced technology than we currently have. He was raised in this world. It's like my generation and the ones after, it comes natural. You act like young people being good with technology and videogames is some crazy thing... maybe you're just old? Like I said, he hit copy and paste! Deciphering billions of lines of code.... that are, within your own argument, unhackably unique..... to hack it by the time you're 16.... to save a backup in the form of an entirely new item that must be crreated to be compatible with the completely unique code he's never seen.... mid-deletion.... is.... just not understandable only to.... underachievers...? I.... what? What? Edited January 5, 2019 by naraku360 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, ben0119 said: The clown guy is an assassin? I thought he was just a psycho. And that chairman's organization apparently supersedes all of the world's governments, especially for all those card perks to work. Everyone with a Hunter Card has a license to kill, and people constantly kill each other all the time, Hunter or not, with no repercussions, but... a prison exists? A family of assassins' house is on a celebrity house tour, but if you go there you get killed. Ok... No, Hisoka is just a psycho. Nope, there are several established countries that don't give a fuck about the Hunter's authority. The prisons are mostly non-nen users since nen is deliberately kept a secret to as much of the public as possible. It's not like standard jail would do much to any halfway intelligent nen user. There are plenty of dystopias where jail exists but next to nobody winds up there despite frequent murder. The civillian police force likely won't know much [or anything] about nen, and as a result they'll really suck at their job, and from what little is seen of them they kinda do. Civilian prison is primarily for non-nen users, but if you try applying it to nen users it's basically useless. Hence.... the Hunter Association prohibits teaching normal citizens about nen. It's as much of a counterbalance as realistically possible, but the solution isn't presented as especially effective. Not if they don't enter without permission. It's literally an exaggerated guard dog and last I checked, guard dogs exist and can be pretty dangerous. Edited January 5, 2019 by naraku360 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Owl Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 44 minutes ago, Kuroko said: No, I can't not. I'm having fun and also lack self-control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Owl Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 minute ago, naraku360 said: No, I can't not. I'm having fun and also lack self-control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 46 minutes ago, Kuroko said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Hey, remember when this thread was about Black Clover? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Owl Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 hours ago, naraku360 said: Deciphering billions of lines of code.... that are, within your own argument, unhackably unique..... to hack it by the time you're 16.... to save a backup in the form of an entirely new item that must be crreated to be compatible with the completely unique code he's never seen.... mid-deletion.... is.... just not understandable only to.... underachievers...? I.... what? What? What you can't do that? Clearly you have Downs Syndrome. How can you live with yourself? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmpressAngel Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 hours ago, PokeNirvash said: Hey, remember when this thread was about Black Clover? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 21 hours ago, Daos said: Your brain still won't allow you to understand the concept of a Mary Sue huh? That's so sad. Guess they're real life canon huh? Sure, but not nearly as many characters as people claim there are. Like I said, it's shorthand for "competent character I don't like." Intellectual laziness and intellectual dishonesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 15 hours ago, naraku360 said: Jesus fucking Christ. You have to be able to display the coding to something before it works. That's how creating an image of any kind via computer happens. Are you to suggest he did the code blind until the device was able to display mental images? That's insane. If he didn't start with a computer, he didn't have anything to input the code to because it doesn't have a fucking screen. This literally is the simplest concept imaginable. I never said anything of the sort. I think you've become delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 15 hours ago, naraku360 said: Deciphering billions of lines of code.... that are, within your own argument, unhackably unique..... to hack it by the time you're 16.... to save a backup in the form of an entirely new item that must be crreated to be compatible with the completely unique code he's never seen.... mid-deletion.... is.... just not understandable only to.... underachievers...? I.... what? What? What is there to decipher? All he has to do is save the code. He's already in the admin console. Why would the admin need to hack his own console? 16... check my links above. Given he was able to make that item on the spot I'd wager it's not unusual to be able to craft such jewelry items and Kirito probably did it before in his spare time. Or he placed Yui into an item he already had in his inventory. I think what's lacking here is your imagination. Besides, of all the bitchings that have ever been bitched about SAO over the years, you're the first one I can remember that ever complained about WELL HOW COME NO ONE HACKED INTO IT. The big thing I remember some people complaining about was it taking so long for us to learn the players were being kept in hospitals... which is common sense. Also it would ruin the isolation and immersion of the game world that we were supposed to feel trapped in along with the players to see the real world again so soon. Whether the game could be hacked or not is not important to the story. After everything that happened does everyone getting broken out by hackers sound very compelling to you? And like I said if the devices are tampered with they fry the user, and connection is lost once they're dead, so no way to hack even if you wanted to. But all you can do is nitpick around the edges. You lose sight of the big picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 15 hours ago, naraku360 said: No, Hisoka is just a psycho. Nope, there are several established countries that don't give a fuck about the Hunter's authority. The prisons are mostly non-nen users since nen is deliberately kept a secret to as much of the public as possible. It's not like standard jail would do much to any halfway intelligent nen user. There are plenty of dystopias where jail exists but next to nobody winds up there despite frequent murder. The civillian police force likely won't know much [or anything] about nen, and as a result they'll really suck at their job, and from what little is seen of them they kinda do. Civilian prison is primarily for non-nen users, but if you try applying it to nen users it's basically useless. Hence.... the Hunter Association prohibits teaching normal citizens about nen. It's as much of a counterbalance as realistically possible, but the solution isn't presented as especially effective. Not if they don't enter without permission. It's literally an exaggerated guard dog and last I checked, guard dogs exist and can be pretty dangerous. See, it's unclear if it's meant to be like a dystopia or if this is meant to be considered normal and acceptable in this world, since no one really seems to bat an eye to any of it, and most if not all of the characters are pretty immoral or sociopathic. Maybe human psychology doesn't even work the same way in this world. It's not really clear what the author is going for, or if he even knows what he's going for. The whole world is just a mess. So, the solution is to keep nen a secret but still let nen users do whatever they want. Ok lol. Doesn't really seem like they're trying to counterbalance anything, more like hoarding power and knowledge of nen, while keeping themselves untouchable. There was no sign of any prohibition of nen teaching when Gon and Killua learned about it either, or anywhere else in the show prior to that. Also it wasn't until fucking 50-something episodes in, and we learn about it in the most boring way possible from the most boring character possibly conceived. But what you really should have said was the show is supposed to be all about the nen users and we're not supposed to think about how people with these abilities might affect the actual rest of the world. It's woefully underdeveloped and what is, is nonsensical. Basically it's a bunch of over-powered people with no consequences and nothing to keep them in check but each other, and there's not exactly a virtuous group of nen users or maybe even individual, so... Did you see all the ridiculous requirements to get permission? Basically no one is going to get in there but the protagonists. Still doesn't explain why it's on a celebrity house tour! Imagine if mob bosses' houses were on tours. Sure, you could maybe visit their house or museum and see memorabilia and artifacts, AFTER they're dead or in prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 14 hours ago, PokeNirvash said: Hey, remember when this thread was about Black Clover? I've made a few Black Clover related posts but didn't get any bites. You guys should be getting triggered that Toonami renewed Black Clover! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 7 hours ago, ben0119 said: Guess they're real life canon huh? Sure, but not nearly as many characters as people claim there are. Like I said, it's shorthand for "competent character I don't like." Intellectual laziness and intellectual dishonesty. Who? The kids on Myth Busters? Yeah duct taping a guy to a wall and knowing trivia about Abe Lincoln is ... totally... the same.... as being... a Mary Sue character.... It's so weird how you link stuff that doesn't help your position at all. Ben look... the issue here is your brain is basically functioning with a diminished capacity. If someone presents you with a list of character traits and abilities that are realistic and a list of character traits that are incredibly unrealistic, the two lists of character traits will basically look exactly the same to you. It would be like talking to someone who didn't understand that a guy who jumps in a pool is a lot more wet than a guy who stepped in a puddle, and no matter how hard you tried to explain to this person that one action would leave you far more wet than than the other... he was only able to comprehend that the guy was wet in either situation. You don't understand the difference between a 14 - 16 year old being competent and a 14 - 16 year old possessing a vast array of unrealistic abilities. Because of that these discussions always go like this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, ben0119 said: Guess they're real life canon huh? Sure, but not nearly as many characters as people claim there are. Like I said, it's shorthand for "competent character I don't like." Intellectual laziness and intellectual dishonesty. There are plenty of competent characters to like. Those ones don't overcome their hardships in large part in-between episodes. 13 hours ago, ben0119 said: I never said anything of the sort. I think you've become delusional. Your point was that computers can't hack it because it's a mental image. But if you reverse engineer that line of thought, how did he create it if it's incompatible with existing computers? Not so much to suggest it's impossible to create a new OS, give it a new function of mental images, create a server capable of transmitting a game likely to be hundreds [if not thousands] of terabytes to thousands of people on varying network connections with no latency, and build the game itself by 28 years old isn't "competent." It's defying any reasonable suspension of fisbelief. If it were a silly comedy with a mega-genius that would be one thing, but to act like we should take that seriously is a whole other story. 13 hours ago, ben0119 said: What is there to decipher? All he has to do is save the code. He's already in the admin console. Why would the admin need to hack his own console? 16... check my links above. Given he was able to make that item on the spot I'd wager it's not unusual to be able to craft such jewelry items and Kirito probably did it before in his spare time. Or he placed Yui into an item he already had in his inventory. I think what's lacking here is your imagination. Besides, of all the bitchings that have ever been bitched about SAO over the years, you're the first one I can remember that ever complained about WELL HOW COME NO ONE HACKED INTO IT. The big thing I remember some people complaining about was it taking so long for us to learn the players were being kept in hospitals... which is common sense. Also it would ruin the isolation and immersion of the game world that we were supposed to feel trapped in along with the players to see the real world again so soon. Whether the game could be hacked or not is not important to the story. After everything that happened does everyone getting broken out by hackers sound very compelling to you? And like I said if the devices are tampered with they fry the user, and connection is lost once they're dead, so no way to hack even if you wanted to. But all you can do is nitpick around the edges. You lose sight of the big picture. I think you've gone off the rails on your argument. I'm posing counterpoints to your "it's unhackable" argument. It was built with existing technology, or the excessive nomsense outlined in my paragraph above is true. Neither make any sense. And yes, theirs a metric fuckton of code to decipher. Even if it were to be a non-propreitarty code, he'd still have to look through billions of lines of code to find the correct line. You're the one saying it's unique code to the headset, by the way, which only serves to make Kirito's act of transferring it into another item more ludicrous. Edited January 6, 2019 by naraku360 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 12 hours ago, ben0119 said: See, it's unclear if it's meant to be like a dystopia or if this is meant to be considered normal and acceptable in this world, since no one really seems to bat an eye to any of it, and most if not all of the characters are pretty immoral or sociopathic. Maybe human psychology doesn't even work the same way in this world. It's not really clear what the author is going for, or if he even knows what he's going for. The whole world is just a mess. It's not a dystopia but has elements of one. And the characters are deliberately given some sense of morality that is shown to be flawed. Gon helps people who ask and will blindly defend people he cares about, but he has a very narrow view on who to care about - it's basically just people he likes and won't stop liking regardless of what they do. Killua was raised to be a killer but doesn't really like doing it, but mostly of of disiniterest and wanting to be more normal so he idolizes Gon, despite Gon being pretty abnormal to most people around him. Kurapika has the strongest moral compass but will kill in cold blood if angry enough since he has basically no control of his temper [there's literally a short manga chapter where he wants to leave his village and has to go through a trial to control emotions so people don't find out about his eyes, and he totally fails but his friend cheated forhim, so he gets to leave without learning from the mistake] and has a general unwillingness to build bonds with other people. Leorio has good intentions in becoming a doctor but lacks critical thinking and comes to hasty conclusions. While Leorio and Kurapika have less exposure than Gon/Killua, their are huge casts in a most of thd arcs and the same type of characterization goes on in a plethora of supporting, even minor characters. And that's how the society operates, peopl ed on it can have good intentions and their flaws often get in the way regardless. 12 hours ago, ben0119 said: So, the solution is to keep nen a secret but still let nen users do whatever they want. Ok lol. Doesn't really seem like they're trying to counterbalance anything, more like hoarding power and knowledge of nen, while keeping themselves untouchable. There was no sign of any prohibition of nen teaching when Gon and Killua learned about it either, or anywhere else in the show prior to that. Also it wasn't until fucking 50-something episodes in, and we learn about it in the most boring way possible from the most boring character possibly conceived. That's the point. They don't really care about enforcing it. They just don't want everyone to have it. 12 hours ago, ben0119 said: But what you really should have said was the show is supposed to be all about the nen users and we're not supposed to think about how people with these abilities might affect the actual rest of the world. It's woefully underdeveloped and what is, is nonsensical. Basically it's a bunch of over-powered people with no consequences and nothing to keep them in check but each other, and there's not exactly a virtuous group of nen users or maybe even individual, so... You know what? You're right, the Hunters are absurdly powerful people with little to keep them in check. Spoiler That's the point. 12 hours ago, ben0119 said: Did you see all the ridiculous requirements to get permission? Basically no one is going to get in there but the protagonists. Still doesn't explain why it's on a celebrity house tour! Imagine if mob bosses' houses were on tours. Sure, you could maybe visit their house or museum and see memorabilia and artifacts, AFTER they're dead or in prison. The.... The protagonists.... didn't get in... They got, like, a quarter of the way there before Killua was like, "Oh, they do care enough to come? Cool, bye fam," and just walked out. It was made pretty clear they would not have made it if they kept going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gun Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 I like how Ben is still salty that his own beloved shounen got put down early because of its incompetent writing while Togashi can trickle out a single volume per year and still pull off huge sales because readers actually enjoy his world-building. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 On 1/6/2019 at 10:32 AM, Daos said: Who? The kids on Myth Busters? Yeah duct taping a guy to a wall and knowing trivia about Abe Lincoln is ... totally... the same.... as being... a Mary Sue character.... It's so weird how you link stuff that doesn't help your position at all. Ben look... the issue here is your brain is basically functioning with a diminished capacity. If someone presents you with a list of character traits and abilities that are realistic and a list of character traits that are incredibly unrealistic, the two lists of character traits will basically look exactly the same to you. It would be like talking to someone who didn't understand that a guy who jumps in a pool is a lot more wet than a guy who stepped in a puddle, and no matter how hard you tried to explain to this person that one action would leave you far more wet than than the other... he was only able to comprehend that the guy was wet in either situation. You don't understand the difference between a 14 - 16 year old being competent and a 14 - 16 year old possessing a vast array of unrealistic abilities. Because of that these discussions always go like this Diminished capacity. Oh fuck you. https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2018/07/26/mythbusters-jr-why-adam-savage-returned-franchise/846138002/ "So who are the lucky kids and teens who get to play with the explosive C-4? The impressive bunch includes: Valerie Castillo, a 15-year-old who specializes in robotics and building; Elijah Horland, a 12-year-old self-taught programmer; Cannan Huey-You, a 12-year-old currently enrolled in college; Jesse Lawless, a 15-year-old who built a mini-motorcycle at age 12; Rachel Pizzolato, a 14-year-old who has remodeled houses; and Allie Weber, a 13-year-old inventor." The description from these videos. "The junior MythBusters are: Valerie Castillo: This 15-year-old from Lancaster, CA, is a skilled builder and robotics wiz, who is also experienced in CAD drawing and 3D printing. In 2017 Valerie was the team leader of her school’s robotics team that won the state championship, qualifying them to go to the World’s VEX Robotics competition. Valerie and her partner recently won 1st place in their school’s science fair, which later won 2nd place district wide. Elijah Horland: The 12-year-old from Brooklyn is a self-taught maker, programmer & circuit wiz. At 9 years-old, he started building PCs and “Franken-Mac” computers; at 10 years old, he took his first microcontroller and was blinking LEDs in one night, soldering his first circuit boards by the end of the same week. By 11 he was featured in “Make” for his early-model “min-tin” sized video game system, now a staple of maker culture. Cannan Huey-You: A 12-year-old with a background in coding, robotics and motion physics, Cannan will be entering his second year of college in the fall at Texas Christian University where he’s a double major in Physics & Astronomy and Engineering. His dream is to be an astronaut and perhaps be one of the first humans to walk on Mars. Jesse Lawless: This Slidell, Louisiana 15-year-old has been around cars in his dad’s custom hot rod shop since he was a baby. After building a mini chopper by himself at the age of 12, he entered a car show and won 1st place. From fixing up jacked up 4x4s to building scooters, to modifying radio controlled cars, Jesse knows his way around a vehicle. He is also skilled at drawing, crafting and building models. Rachel Pizzolato: The 14-year-old from Metairie, Louisiana is a builder who has been involved with remodeling houses with her father since a young age. In 2017 Rachel was awarded the Duke TIP challenge certificate and presented her current project to the 2017 American Geophysical Union at Bright Stars, a forum that hosted over 20,000 earth and space scientists from around the world. Allie Weber: The South Dakota 13-year-old is a multiple award-winning, patent pending inventor, builder, and maker. An advocate for STEAM, in 2017 Allie was recognized as one of the 21 under 21 girls who are changing the world by Teen Vogue magazine and was also recognized by 3M as one of the top 10 young scientists in the country. In 2016 Allie won the Global Spark Lab Invent-It-Challenge with a frostbite warning system." None of my sources even mentioned some of the stuff that was talked about in the show. Rachel won some science engineering competition 3 years in a row, and is also a gymnast! She's good at more than one thing! Uh-oh! You could watch the first episode where it talks all about it. https://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/mythbusters-jr/full-episodes/duct-tape-special You want to talk about "diminished capacity" when you obviously don't know what you're talking about. You didn't read any of the links. Those kids are all super-prodigies, some in multiple fields. One of the 12 year old kids is in college. So yeah it's a little more than what you were talking about "duct tape and Abe Lincoln trivia." And I wouldn't even say Kirito is even on the level of those kids. Kirito is basically just your average nerdy gamer tech junkie kid. It's not like he's even presented as some child prodigy or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) On 1/6/2019 at 4:32 PM, Top Gun said: I like how Ben is still salty that his own beloved shounen got put down early because of its incompetent writing while Togashi can trickle out a single volume per year and still pull off huge sales because readers actually enjoy his world-building. The Montreal Tokyo Screwjob. The Jump building can burn to the ground once One Piece and Black Clover are over with, as far as I'm concerned. And really? Incompetent writing? Is that why Naruto was allowed to run to completion? And that has nothing to do with it anyway. Hunter x Hunter's world-building is ass and doesn't even make sense. The world is barely developed and what is doesn't even make any sense. And none of the characters are likable, it's boring, nothing happens. I guess those readers must have Stockholm Syndrome, lol. I'm still not wholly unconvinced that Togashi wasn't replaced with an evil alien clone, Michael Jackson style, because I can't fathom that this same man also wrote Yu Yu Hakusho, which was actually good. Also, the character designs? Lame or boring! Yu Yu Hakusho characters looked cool! What the hell man! You'd probably be more accurate to say I was salty over Hunter x Hunter getting picked up instead of Fairy Tail, but that happened with multiple long-runners Toonami picked up. But, no, Hunter x Hunter just isn't good. But, your beloved shonen won't have a proper ending, either, so - Edited January 12, 2019 by ben0119 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilgar Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 27 minutes ago, ben0119 said: Diminished capacity. Oh fuck you. https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2018/07/26/mythbusters-jr-why-adam-savage-returned-franchise/846138002/ "So who are the lucky kids and teens who get to play with the explosive C-4? The impressive bunch includes: Valerie Castillo, a 15-year-old who specializes in robotics and building; Elijah Horland, a 12-year-old self-taught programmer; Cannan Huey-You, a 12-year-old currently enrolled in college; Jesse Lawless, a 15-year-old who built a mini-motorcycle at age 12; Rachel Pizzolato, a 14-year-old who has remodeled houses; and Allie Weber, a 13-year-old inventor." The description from these videos. "The junior MythBusters are: Valerie Castillo: This 15-year-old from Lancaster, CA, is a skilled builder and robotics wiz, who is also experienced in CAD drawing and 3D printing. In 2017 Valerie was the team leader of her school’s robotics team that won the state championship, qualifying them to go to the World’s VEX Robotics competition. Valerie and her partner recently won 1st place in their school’s science fair, which later won 2nd place district wide. Elijah Horland: The 12-year-old from Brooklyn is a self-taught maker, programmer & circuit wiz. At 9 years-old, he started building PCs and “Franken-Mac” computers; at 10 years old, he took his first microcontroller and was blinking LEDs in one night, soldering his first circuit boards by the end of the same week. By 11 he was featured in “Make” for his early-model “min-tin” sized video game system, now a staple of maker culture. Cannan Huey-You: A 12-year-old with a background in coding, robotics and motion physics, Cannan will be entering his second year of college in the fall at Texas Christian University where he’s a double major in Physics & Astronomy and Engineering. His dream is to be an astronaut and perhaps be one of the first humans to walk on Mars. Jesse Lawless: This Slidell, Louisiana 15-year-old has been around cars in his dad’s custom hot rod shop since he was a baby. After building a mini chopper by himself at the age of 12, he entered a car show and won 1st place. From fixing up jacked up 4x4s to building scooters, to modifying radio controlled cars, Jesse knows his way around a vehicle. He is also skilled at drawing, crafting and building models. Rachel Pizzolato: The 14-year-old from Metairie, Louisiana is a builder who has been involved with remodeling houses with her father since a young age. In 2017 Rachel was awarded the Duke TIP challenge certificate and presented her current project to the 2017 American Geophysical Union at Bright Stars, a forum that hosted over 20,000 earth and space scientists from around the world. Allie Weber: The South Dakota 13-year-old is a multiple award-winning, patent pending inventor, builder, and maker. An advocate for STEAM, in 2017 Allie was recognized as one of the 21 under 21 girls who are changing the world by Teen Vogue magazine and was also recognized by 3M as one of the top 10 young scientists in the country. In 2016 Allie won the Global Spark Lab Invent-It-Challenge with a frostbite warning system." None of my sources even mentioned some of the stuff that was talked about in the show. Rachel won some science engineering competition 3 years in a row, and is also a gymnast! She's good at more than one thing! Uh-oh! You could watch the first episode where it talks all about it. https://www.sciencechannel.com/tv-shows/mythbusters-jr/full-episodes/duct-tape-special You want to talk about "diminished capacity" when you obviously don't know what you're talking about. You didn't read any of the links. Those kids are all super-prodigies, some in multiple fields. One of the 12 year old kids is in college. So yeah it's a little more than what you were talking about "duct tape and Abe Lincoln trivia." And I wouldn't even say Kirito is even on the level of those kids. Kirito is basically just your average nerdy gamer tech junkie kid. It's not like he's even presented as some child prodigy or anything. You jerk off to them, don't you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) On 1/6/2019 at 2:56 PM, naraku360 said: There are plenty of competent characters to like. Those ones don't overcome their hardships in large part in-between episodes. Your point was that computers can't hack it because it's a mental image. But if you reverse engineer that line of thought, how did he create it if it's incompatible with existing computers? Not so much to suggest it's impossible to create a new OS, give it a new function of mental images, create a server capable of transmitting a game likely to be hundreds [if not thousands] of terabytes to thousands of people on varying network connections with no latency, and build the game itself by 28 years old isn't "competent." It's defying any reasonable suspension of fisbelief. If it were a silly comedy with a mega-genius that would be one thing, but to act like we should take that seriously is a whole other story. I think you've gone off the rails on your argument. I'm posing counterpoints to your "it's unhackable" argument. It was built with existing technology, or the excessive nomsense outlined in my paragraph above is true. Neither make any sense. And yes, theirs a metric fuckton of code to decipher. Even if it were to be a non-propreitarty code, he'd still have to look through billions of lines of code to find the correct line. You're the one saying it's unique code to the headset, by the way, which only serves to make Kirito's act of transferring it into another item more ludicrous. I already told you I agreed with you on the time skipping over character development being a flaw of SAO Aincrad. To create what this game is touted as in-universe, he'd have to create a new OS and a new game engine. I'm still not sure if the game world is stored on the servers, or the game systems themselves. The latter would make more sense, but it's a HUGE, hyper-realistic world that's indistinguishable from the real one, aside from the fantastical elements, of course. The point being, no one ever feels they are looking at "graphics." Maybe it's more accurate to say the characters are transported to SAO? So, they go to the servers? I don't know. Is that detail ever explained? Maybe if we go back and re-watch the first ep... So yes it had to be created with computers, but he still had to create new software and such for the game to work, I'm thinking. This isn't unheard of. Games can't always just recycle engines or use something similar to previous engines. Sometimes you have to start from the ground up, and that would certainly be the case with something on a whole other level, like SAO. Again, he had a development team, so not by himself. And I thought we were going after Kirito, not Kayaba? No one ever complains about Kayaba that he shouldn't have been able to create this game. It also misses the point of what the show is supposed to be about. Or, maybe things don't have to be so black and white? Maybe that. He created new stuff, with existing technology, of a possible future world, mind you, so not our currently existing technology. I thought all the code was Yui and he was just copying it over to the item. You're really making too much of out of this. But like I said, he's not "hacking" anything. He's in the admin console, so, he's just accessing. The code wouldn't have to be unique to keep the devices hack proof, because as I said, they fry the user if tampered with, and are useless after the user is dead since connection would be severed to the SAO servers. But I'd imagine it probably has to be unique code for such a revolutionary technology and device? Either way, Kirito wasn't "hacking" anything, so it's irrelevant. Edited January 12, 2019 by ben0119 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 On 1/6/2019 at 3:38 PM, naraku360 said: It's not a dystopia but has elements of one. And the characters are deliberately given some sense of morality that is shown to be flawed. Gon helps people who ask and will blindly defend people he cares about, but he has a very narrow view on who to care about - it's basically just people he likes and won't stop liking regardless of what they do. Killua was raised to be a killer but doesn't really like doing it, but mostly of of disiniterest and wanting to be more normal so he idolizes Gon, despite Gon being pretty abnormal to most people around him. Kurapika has the strongest moral compass but will kill in cold blood if angry enough since he has basically no control of his temper [there's literally a short manga chapter where he wants to leave his village and has to go through a trial to control emotions so people don't find out about his eyes, and he totally fails but his friend cheated forhim, so he gets to leave without learning from the mistake] and has a general unwillingness to build bonds with other people. Leorio has good intentions in becoming a doctor but lacks critical thinking and comes to hasty conclusions. While Leorio and Kurapika have less exposure than Gon/Killua, their are huge casts in a most of thd arcs and the same type of characterization goes on in a plethora of supporting, even minor characters. And that's how the society operates, peopl ed on it can have good intentions and their flaws often get in the way regardless. That's the point. They don't really care about enforcing it. They just don't want everyone to have it. You know what? You're right, the Hunters are absurdly powerful people with little to keep them in check. Reveal hidden contents That's the point. The.... The protagonists.... didn't get in... They got, like, a quarter of the way there before Killua was like, "Oh, they do care enough to come? Cool, bye fam," and just walked out. It was made pretty clear they would not have made it if they kept going. Now why would I want to root for people like that? Gon liking certain people regardless of what they do is pretty stupid, too. Also we were sold a bill of goods, of sorts. The way the first arc starts, it presents things as if Gon, Killua, Kurapika, and Leorio are going to be the main group. But they split up, and we see Kurapika and Leorio only infrequently after that, if at all. Doesn't help especially since the latter two are preferable to Gon and Killua. Huge casts of more of the same, yeah I really want to see that. In most shows, movies, etc, there would be a character or characters that would point out how fucked up things are, and maybe even do something about it, or try. They'd also call other characters out on their amoral behavior. Here, everyone just goes along with it. Not really sure what the purpose of that is. It doesn't make the protagonists sympathetic when they aren't much better than some of the antagonists in morality. And like I said, it comes off as if human psychology works differently in this world. Even in some of the shittiest, most awful places in our world, you'll have people who live there that will point out "yeah this is fucked up." Maybe they can't do anything about it, but they'll definitely at least recognize that. I mean, it would be one thing if only certain cultures and places in the HxH world were like that, but the whole HxH world is like that. That in itself just isn't even realistic. But, mostly the show is just boring and a whole a lot of nothing. That's why I dropped it when it came down to us watching Gon and Killua level grinding exp and farming gold by chopping people in the back. Is that supposed to be a selling point? It would be one thing if some of the Hunters or others with their level of power kept each other in check, but most everyone in the show are assholes with dubious morality. I mean, who does anyone even identify with in this show? You knew what I meant. They got in the property. Was anyone else getting in? No. And you just helped make my point by saying the protagonists wouldn't have gotten all the way in. So, "asking to come in" really isn't good enough, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 46 minutes ago, ben0119 said: I already told you I agreed with you on the time skipping over character development being a flaw of SAO Aincrad. To create what this game is touted as in-universe, he'd have to create a new OS and a new game engine. I'm still not sure if the game world is stored on the servers, or the game systems themselves. The latter would make more sense, but it's a HUGE, hyper-realistic world that's indistinguishable from the real one, aside from the fantastical elements, of course. The point being, no one ever feels they are looking at "graphics." Maybe it's more accurate to say the characters are transported to SAO? So, they go to the servers? I don't know. Is that detail ever explained? Maybe if we go back and re-watch the first ep... So yes it had to be created with computers, but he still had to create new software and such for the game to work, I'm thinking. This isn't unheard of. Games can't always just recycle engines or use something similar to previous engines. Sometimes you have to start from the ground up, and that would certainly be the case with something on a whole other level, like SAO. Again, he had a development team, so not by himself. And I thought we were going after Kirito, not Kayaba? No one ever complains about Kayaba that he shouldn't have been able to create this game. It also misses the point of what the show is supposed to be about. Or, maybe things don't have to be so black and white? Maybe that. He created new stuff, with existing technology, of a possible future world, mind you, so not our currently existing technology. I thought all the code was Yui and he was just copying it over to the item. You're really making too much of out of this. But like I said, he's not "hacking" anything. He's in the admin console, so, he's just accessing. The code wouldn't have to be unique to keep the devices hack proof, because as I said, they fry the user if tampered with, and are useless after the user is dead since connection would be severed to the SAO servers. But I'd imagine it probably has to be unique code for such a revolutionary technology and device? Either way, Kirito wasn't "hacking" anything, so it's irrelevant. It had to be created on existing technology, lest we believe a guy created an OS to create another extraordinarily advanced OS to use as the foundation for an incredibly advanced game before turning 30. If we're to believe he used existing technology, it can be broken into eventually. That's really all there is to it. Even to buy into what you're saying he did by 28 is ludicrous. Presuming he used existing technology, he'd still have to build a device unheard of to even the most brilliant contemporary technology revolutionaries and create an insanely in-depth game to run on it, with impenetrable security, using a server of a massive scope beyond anything we currently have, and to do it before reaching middle-aged.... I don't know what to say if you think that's plausible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, ben0119 said: Now why would I want to root for people like that? Gon liking certain people regardless of what they do is pretty stupid, too. Also we were sold a bill of goods, of sorts. The way the first arc starts, it presents things as if Gon, Killua, Kurapika, and Leorio are going to be the main group. But they split up, and we see Kurapika and Leorio only infrequently after that, if at all. Doesn't help especially since the latter two are preferable to Gon and Killua. Huge casts of more of the same, yeah I really want to see that. In most shows, movies, etc, there would be a character or characters that would point out how fucked up things are, and maybe even do something about it, or try. They'd also call other characters out on their amoral behavior. Here, everyone just goes along with it. Not really sure what the purpose of that is. It doesn't make the protagonists sympathetic when they aren't much better than some of the antagonists in morality. And like I said, it comes off as if human psychology works differently in this world. Even in some of the shittiest, most awful places in our world, you'll have people who live there that will point out "yeah this is fucked up." Maybe they can't do anything about it, but they'll definitely at least recognize that. I mean, it would be one thing if only certain cultures and places in the HxH world were like that, but the whole HxH world is like that. That in itself just isn't even realistic. But, mostly the show is just boring and a whole a lot of nothing. That's why I dropped it when it came down to us watching Gon and Killua level grinding exp and farming gold by chopping people in the back. Is that supposed to be a selling point? It would be one thing if some of the Hunters or others with their level of power kept each other in check, but most everyone in the show are assholes with dubious morality. I mean, who does anyone even identify with in this show? You knew what I meant. They got in the property. Was anyone else getting in? No. And you just helped make my point by saying the protagonists wouldn't have gotten all the way in. So, "asking to come in" really isn't good enough, then. I'm fairly certain I explained positives and negatives to all 4 of them. I'd rather have dubious morals than the bulk of shonen protagonists who are virtually never questioned because even at their shittiest are apparently supposed to be altruistic. Having grey areas is more believable than fucking Luffy's personality of eat food, punch thing, say dumb stuff people think is inspiring but is basically just sitcom babytalk platitudes. And there are more cultures, the first few arcs are only on one continent. It's pretty clearly critiquing the characters at quite a few points. They do even early on, but eventually lays the smackdown on most of them, including the governence. Just because the world isn't sunshine and rainbows doesn't mean it's "unrealistic" [arguably moreso, actually]. But lol, "Shonen Jump shonen isn't realistic" is a pretty funny criticism. You should be a comedian, just remember to be serious 'cause it's a lot better material than your sorry excuses for jokes. Edited January 12, 2019 by naraku360 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, naraku360 said: It had to be created on existing technology, lest we believe a guy created an OS to create another extraordinarily advanced OS to use as the foundation for an incredibly advanced game before turning 30. If we're to believe he used existing technology, it can be broken into eventually. That's really all there is to it. Even to buy into what you're saying he did by 28 is ludicrous. Presuming he used existing technology, he'd still have to build a device unheard of to even the most brilliant contemporary technology revolutionaries and create an insanely in-depth game to run on it, with impenetrable security, using a server of a massive scope beyond anything we currently have, and to do it before reaching middle-aged.... I don't know what to say if you think that's plausible. It's like you didn't read one of the key sentences I wrote. Kayaba used current technology, of the future this world takes place in. A future where the base technology is already more advanced than our own. So you need to stop judging it based on "what we currently have." Stop with your myopic view. So yes, the creation of SAO was a big deal in the show, but not as much of a leap as it would be to create it in our world. I think that's pretty obvious. And like I said, Kayaba did not create it on his own. He had a development team of other brilliant minds. Spoiler We learn more about them in Alicization. And I can't remember, but it may have been mentioned that there were other VR games before SAO, but Kayaba's just blew them all out of the water. I'd have to go back and re-watch the first episode, but it wouldn't surprise me. It would make sense. I mean, he obviously didn't invent the concept of a virtual world so he was clearly building off something. And I don't get the whole age thing. Many of our brightest inventors, scientists, and entrepreneurs were making big leaps, starting when they were young. That's why we're so impressed with some of them. Especially people in the tech and gaming fields?? I mean, I don't even get why you're so hung up on that. Edited January 12, 2019 by ben0119 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, naraku360 said: I'm fairly certain I explained positives and negatives to all 4 of them. I'd rather have dubious morals than the bulk of shonen protagonists who are virtually never questioned because even at their shittiest are apparently supposed to be altruistic. Having grey areas is more believable than fucking Luffy's personality of eat food, punch thing, say dumb stuff people think is inspiring but is basically just sitcom babytalk platitudes. And there are more cultures, the first few arcs are only on one continent. It's pretty clearly critiquing the characters at quite a few points. They do even early on, but eventually lays the smackdown on most of them, including the governence. Just because the world isn't sunshine and rainbows doesn't mean it's "unrealistic" [arguably moreso, actually]. But lol, "Shonen Jump shonen isn't realistic" is a pretty funny criticism. You should be a comedian, just remember to be serious 'cause it's a lot better material than your sorry excuses for jokes. Yeah and the two I could actually stand, Kurapika and Leorio, are barely in the show after a certain point. But the way Gon acts almost comes off like he has a mental disorder. Blindly defending and liking some people no matter what they do. Maybe it's a form of quasi-sociopathy? At least Killua makes enough sense as being raised by a family of assassins. It wasn't the ideal childhood. But Gon basically had a normal life in a village, aside from having no dad. Also, he wants to become a Hunter to find out why his dad did that instead of being around? You'd think he'd hate him for being a deadbeat. Maybe it's because he hasn't met him yet so he's just at the "where's dad" stage, or not old enough to make that leap. I have to admit I didn't really think poorly of my own dad until I finally met him at like 8 and spent enough time around him over various visits to realize he was kind of an asshole putting up a transparent facade and I really wasn't missing much by not having him in my life. How about Naruto who is basically ninja jesus and people become better people just for having known him and being in his presence? It is silly, I admit. But I think HxH goes too far in the other direction that makes characters unsympathetic, and Gon himself who also acts nonsensical on top of being somewhat amoral. Oh. But I wonder if those other cultures are any different as far as morality goes. I guess I didn't make it to that point. I mean, I don't remember anyone taking to Gon to task for letting someone die just so he could get a fucking badge. Well a lot of worlds won't be sunshine and rainbows, and a corrupt and/or evil governance is a pretty common trope present in shonen and anime in general (including The Big Three and Black Clover), but there's usually always a moral compass to this, usually the protagonists, who contrast this. I can't really recall anyone calling out other characters or the government (which basically isn't even a factor in the arcs I watched, unless you count Hunter Org which seems to just do whatever it wants.) I guess I just don't see the appeal of watching a show about assholes. Like with Mad Men, the whole 60s and advertising stuff is neat, but the characters are pieces of shit. No thank you. Well, I thought Hunter x Hunter was supposed to be a brilliant subversion of the shonen genre and thus above all the rest. Besides, a lot of what we see in shonen might be exaggerated, but not too far off from what we see in real life. Sometimes not far off at all. There were and really are rich assholes like the cartoonish over-the-top nobles in One Piece and Black Clover. Making slaves literally carry their masters around on their backs? Yeah, that kind of shit has happened in human history. That's why it's not believable to have such a shithole of a world and have no one question it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, ben0119 said: Yeah and the two I could actually stand, Kurapika and Leorio, are barely in the show after a certain point. But the way Gon acts almost comes off like he has a mental disorder. Blindly defending and liking some people no matter what they do. Maybe it's a form of quasi-sociopathy? At least Killua makes enough sense as being raised by a family of assassins. It wasn't the ideal childhood. But Gon basically had a normal life in a village, aside from having no dad. Also, he wants to become a Hunter to find out why his dad did that instead of being around? You'd think he'd hate him for being a deadbeat. Maybe it's because he hasn't met him yet so he's just at the "where's dad" stage, or not old enough to make that leap. I have to admit I didn't really think poorly of my own dad until I finally met him at like 8 and spent enough time around him over various visits to realize he was kind of an asshole putting up a transparent facade and I really wasn't missing much by not having him in my life. How about Naruto who is basically ninja jesus and people become better people just for having known him and being in his presence? It is silly, I admit. But I think HxH goes too far in the other direction that makes characters unsympathetic, and Gon himself who also acts nonsensical on top of being somewhat amoral. Oh. But I wonder if those other cultures are any different as far as morality goes. I guess I didn't make it to that point. I mean, I don't remember anyone taking to Gon to task for letting someone die just so he could get a fucking badge. Well a lot of worlds won't be sunshine and rainbows, and a corrupt and/or evil governance is a pretty common trope present in shonen and anime in general (including The Big Three and Black Clover), but there's usually always a moral compass to this, usually the protagonists, who contrast this. I can't really recall anyone calling out other characters or the government (which basically isn't even a factor in the arcs I watched, unless you count Hunter Org which seems to just do whatever it wants.) I guess I just don't see the appeal of watching a show about assholes. Like with Mad Men, the whole 60s and advertising stuff is neat, but the characters are pieces of shit. No thank you. Well, I thought Hunter x Hunter was supposed to be a brilliant subversion of the shonen genre and thus above all the rest. Besides, a lot of what we see in shonen might be exaggerated, but not too far off from what we see in real life. Sometimes not far off at all. There were and really are rich assholes like the cartoonish over-the-top nobles in One Piece and Black Clover. Making slaves literally carry their masters around on their backs? Yeah, that kind of shit has happened in human history. That's why it's not believable to have such a shithole of a world and have no one question it. Sociopathy has nothing to do with upbringing. A lot of serial killers [psychopaths, rather than sociopaths, to be clear] came from privileged backgrounds and despite an estimated 2% of the population being sociopaths, CEOs of major corporations are estimated to be 20+%. But either way, he does have empathy. It's skewed and becomes a point of criticism for it, like in the show itself, but it does exist. The reason he doesn't care as much about actions is that he's a pretty simple kid that operates on first impressions and trusts too easily. It isn't really very different from most shonen protagonists; the only difference is that he's given more to question and eventually put under a microscope. He didn't let anyone die for a badge? If you're talking about Ponzu (blud haired girl), not only does he pull her out of the cave like he did with everyone else, he also felt bad about taking the badge. She's even confirmed to have survived since she comes back for the Chimera Ant arc Gon does have a moral compass. He accepts Killua since Killua doesn't really want to be an assassin and wants to be a normal kid, but won't accept the Phantom Troupe since they hurt his friend [Kurapika] by slaughtering his village. There is a logical consistency for it, even if it's not spelled out so blatantly and the characters have more ambiguity. You keep saying the subversion thing but I never said that. I like it more than most, and it has subversive elements, I just haven't made the argument you keep using as a "gotcha" counterpoint. A lot of asshole characters are great characters. Jimmy McGill from Better Call Saul or Lester and Melvo from Fargo. Most crime dramas don't have anyone that isn't an asshole. Very few characters outside the Hunters themselves actually like the Hunters. The current arc has an entire government that's outside their power since they succeeded from the world's version of the UN and they're basically like, "Nah, fuck those guys." As well as very few people trusting any of them. And Chimera Ant has a nation that's isolationist to a N. Korea degree who refuse to let mist Hunters in and the few they do have to abide by the strict authoritarian rules. Though, most cultures of the world haven't had much exposure, I don't think having a relatively grim society is indicative of bad writing. Places like China have a lack of good samaritans due less of a "they're sociopaths" and more of a fear of being scammed or hurt by fakers since the laws there don't have great efficiency in protecting people. Even America, despite all the touting of "the greatest nation in the world" struggles more than many places to keep civilians safe, in large part due to political corruption (of both parties). Edited January 12, 2019 by naraku360 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 No one knows what causes sociopathy or psychopathy. Environment and upbringing are considered to be a factor though. Genetics also. Sometimes a person with a perfectly good upbringing becomes one, sometimes a person with the most horrible upbringing imaginable doesn't. My issue with Gon is that his sociopathy is so random. He's genuine and friendly, not a liar, cares about his friends.... and then is totally nonplussed by people dying horrible deaths to the point where he doesn't even bat an eye. Do you guys really want to have another 20 page discussion on HxH? We just did that like a year ago. Ben none of the stuff you listed for those kids would qualify them as a Mary Sue in any form of media. I watched a preview video for the show to see what you were talking about. Going to college at a young age does not make one a Mary Sue. Being good at math and also doing gymnastics does not make one a Mary Sue. Now, if she becomes one of worlds greatest mathmaticians while also become an Olympic gymnast... then you'd have a case for an IRL Mary Sue. Except it still wouldn't be, because there would be no god like force bending the narrative of the world around her. The issue is still the same as it's been, your brain will not allow you to understand the concept of what a Mary Sue is. Here's another character for you to not understand. I hear he's super competent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Daos said: My issue with Gon is that his sociopathy is so random. He's genuine and friendly, not a liar, cares about his friends.... and then is totally nonplussed by people dying horrible deaths to the point where he doesn't even bat an eye. I'm not sure what's inconsistent about a kid who grew up with no friends only really caring when it's someone he knows and likes. That's pretty consistent. If we consider environmental factors, he only really interacted with his aunt who likely taught him kindness, and animals which he probably saw a lot of the whole eating each other thing. Canonically, his closest "friend" prior to Killua up was... a pet bear he saved when it was a cub. Sort of pointlessly omitted from 2011, but a alluded to briefly later (not very well). It's in the first chapter/'99 first episode. That and bonding with a Hunter, who is the reason he found out his dad was alive, that taught him stuff lessons on defending himself and survival of the fittest. So he did get a mix of survivalism, likely exposure to death through an undomesticated bear, and compassion from his aunt. None of that is filler, by the way. Just botched in 2011. Edited January 12, 2019 by naraku360 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gun Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Yeah, the 2011 adaptation didn't really nail things until Yorknew City, or maybe Heaven's Arena. The Hunter Exam as a whole was far better in the 1999 series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 53 minutes ago, Top Gun said: Yeah, the 2011 adaptation didn't really nail things until Yorknew City, or maybe Heaven's Arena. The Hunter Exam as a whole was far better in the 1999 series. I honestly think the first arc 2011 definitively wins out on is Greed Island, which is literally the last arc it covers. Phantom Troupe is great in both, but even then it's about even. Heavens Arena is also better in '99 with a couple alterations I didn't like [Gido after Hisoka? Lolwhy?]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Literally speeding through the majority of Hisoka vs. Kastro without explaining jack squat is easily '99's greatest sin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 28 minutes ago, PokeNirvash said: Literally speeding through the majority of Hisoka vs. Kastro without explaining jack squat is easily '99's greatest sin. That was honestly one of the worst fights in 2011, though. What was shown in '99 was also better. The cutoff sucked, but they explained literally everything just as clearly in, like, half the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 4 hours ago, PokeNirvash said: Literally speeding through the majority of Hisoka vs. Kastro without explaining jack squat is easily '99's greatest sin. 3 hours ago, naraku360 said: That was honestly one of the worst fights in 2011, though. What was shown in '99 was also better. The cutoff sucked, but they explained literally everything just as clearly in, like, half the time. That's another big criticism of HxH. Way too much explaining shit compared to actual fighting. It's really bad, even by shonen standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 18 hours ago, naraku360 said: Sociopathy has nothing to do with upbringing. A lot of serial killers [psychopaths, rather than sociopaths, to be clear] came from privileged backgrounds and despite an estimated 2% of the population being sociopaths, CEOs of major corporations are estimated to be 20+%. But either way, he does have empathy. It's skewed and becomes a point of criticism for it, like in the show itself, but it does exist. The reason he doesn't care as much about actions is that he's a pretty simple kid that operates on first impressions and trusts too easily. It isn't really very different from most shonen protagonists; the only difference is that he's given more to question and eventually put under a microscope. I know, which is why I wondered if Gon was one because he had a good upbringing. Well, some killers are considered to be sociopaths. Where they see people as an inconvenience or obstacle to them, so they just kill them. Like Scott Peterson. Lol 20% of CEOs? Who is your source on that? Bernie? Occasio-Cortez? I can't really think of any shonen protagonists that are like that. There's trusting too easily, but even the most trusting and innocent of shonen protagonists tend to be able to tell when someone is doing something they shouldn't be and will question their actions. Gon either can't tell or simply doesn't care, and it comes off more like the latter. 18 hours ago, naraku360 said: He didn't let anyone die for a badge? If you're talking about Ponzu (blud haired girl), not only does he pull her out of the cave like he did with everyone else, he also felt bad about taking the badge. She's even confirmed to have survived since she comes back for the Chimera Ant arc The guy that he watched Hisoka kill and obviously didn't intervene, because that would have alerted Hisoka to Gon's presence and prevent him from getting the drop on him. 18 hours ago, naraku360 said: Gon does have a moral compass. He accepts Killua since Killua doesn't really want to be an assassin and wants to be a normal kid, but won't accept the Phantom Troupe since they hurt his friend [Kurapika] by slaughtering his village. There is a logical consistency for it, even if it's not spelled out so blatantly and the characters have more ambiguity. Uhh what are you talking about? Gon thought it was "cool" that Killua and his family were assassins. He would have accepted Killua regardless of whether he gave up the family business or not. Obviously the Phantom Troupe are way over on the other side morally, but would Gon care if Kurapika wasn't his friend? He doesn't bat an eye when people die around him, much less attempt to do anything to prevent it. 18 hours ago, naraku360 said: You keep saying the subversion thing but I never said that. I like it more than most, and it has subversive elements, I just haven't made the argument you keep using as a "gotcha" counterpoint. That's one of the key talking points fans run to when praising, trying to sell people on the show, defending it. It's basically become a running joke at this point. 19 hours ago, naraku360 said: A lot of asshole characters are great characters. Jimmy McGill from Better Call Saul or Lester and Melvo from Fargo. Most crime dramas don't have anyone that isn't an asshole. That's true, but that doesn't make me want to follow such a character. Never watched those shows. Breaking Bad is apparently a story about a man who progressively becomes a shittier and shittier person. Why would I want to watch that? If by crime dramas you mean stuff like mafia movies or TV shows, things usually do not end well for those characters. I did like Godfather I, II sucked and didn't bother with III, liked Goodfellas, wasn't interested in Sopranos. And maybe it's easier to watch a movie about shitty people than an long ongoing show. And given some of the CRAP shonen that's popular, like Naruto, it makes me wonder how much of the audience are even picking up on this stuff in HxH. At least with the other examples you and I gave you could point to those as selling points and why people watch those shows. After all, HxH still has plenty of the stuff that attracts people to other shonen. 19 hours ago, naraku360 said: Very few characters outside the Hunters themselves actually like the Hunters. The current arc has an entire government that's outside their power since they succeeded from the world's version of the UN and they're basically like, "Nah, fuck those guys." As well as very few people trusting any of them. And Chimera Ant has a nation that's isolationist to a N. Korea degree who refuse to let mist Hunters in and the few they do have to abide by the strict authoritarian rules. Though, most cultures of the world haven't had much exposure, I don't think having a relatively grim society is indicative of bad writing. Places like China have a lack of good samaritans due less of a "they're sociopaths" and more of a fear of being scammed or hurt by fakers since the laws there don't have great efficiency in protecting people. Even America, despite all the touting of "the greatest nation in the world" struggles more than many places to keep civilians safe, in large part due to political corruption (of both parties). Well, earlier in the show, we have no idea about the world, because nothing is explained. We just jump right into the Hunter Exam. We don't know what's supposed to be considered normal or wrong or bad or whatever because there's no context. We see people maiming and slaughtering each other left and right with impugnity, but then learn that prison actually exists? After this, we see the characters travel around, but don't actually learn anything about those places outside of key locations, the wacky Zoldyck property and that tower of doom. It's all just a backdrop. In pretty much any other series we'd know all about the culture, society, and what's currently going on in said village, city, nation, etc. I don't really see how that's good writing or good world building. All this stuff you talk about comes way later. You can't wait 70-something episodes to explain your world. That should be done, you know, at the beginning. Having a grim world that's almost uniformly grim, as in, not even any outposts or oases of humanity, and all the characters are ok with it, doesn't seem like good writing and comes off, like I said, like human psychology functions differently in this universe. Well, Gon's village seemed ok enough, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some edgelord shit going on behind the scenes, knowing this show. And it obviously didn't make Gon turn out any better. Apparently some men in general don't want to be good samaritans, for fear of being punished for good deeds. Though glancing at some of this guy's other videos tempts me to want to shoot the messenger, the stories he reported on are legit and there's more where they came from. Indeed. Hm, it did sound like you were advocating for the use of a wall and guard dogs for safety though. =3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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