scoobdog

For future reference, there's an IN-N-Out across Lincoln from 24R (the northeast corner of LAX's property) if you need food at 1am out of the airport. They almost universally close at that time throughout their network.

Ignoring them is the best way to deal with them, not being civil, and that's what Sorce does now. In situations where he can't be ignored, you still don't waste time being civil to him or people like him, you tell him he's a piece of shit. Like you said, civility is for your sake not theirs, and you're not gaining anything by being civil to a delusional nut case who isn't going to see reason. Your best bet is to shut them down by any means necessary.

I was wondering if you ended up getting Chuck E Cheese's fake Italian pizzeria pizza. It has to have been really shitty if it was bad even when you were starving. Fortunately, there are plenty of options besides pizza.

So, what name was on the Pizza Box and what wings did you order?

That's not really what I got out of your argument, particularly after the tangential argument about changing people's minds. FWIW, I agree that's what cow fucker wants, but he's also delusional about politics and life so the only real approach to him is neither civility nor confrontation - it's ignoring him. He hasn't controlled any narrative beyond getting his shit handed to him on such a regular basis as to suggests he wants to be martyred, and the one thing martyrs hate is for their "sacrifice" to be ignored or forgotten.

Bad faith? Dude, she wasn’t asking for counterpoint in the first place. You could hardly expect her to be following rules of debate when she didn’t intend to debate you. Look, nobody gets ahead if you end up getting hurt in all this. You know she doesn’t know you or your roommates, so don’t take her comments as personal critiques of all of you. Accept them for what they are: born out of her experience of living in the Deep South.

It’s all bad, not just that area.

Uh, no? You fly whichever airline is the cheapest and flies at the time you want.

It’s disorienting to be sure. Bradley is like a completely different airport within the airport.

Did you fly American? I’m guessing so since their hub is DFW. On my way back from Dallas, they put us on a leg of an international flight, which meant we were on a wide body, and they dropped us off in Tom Bradley. American’s terminal is actually connected to Bradley, so they use Bradley’s gates for their wide body planes.

I don't have to deal with check-in windows for the most part; I don't need to rent a car or ride share in or out; and I'm so used to the place I pretty much know when to go or not got. So, I don't hate it. But I also don't use it when I could use the airport that's 7 miles away instead.

Sounds absolutely horrendous. I wouldn't enjoy flying in or out of LAX either if I didn't live here.

If you have any chance of changing your flight home, see if you can fly out of Burbank or Long Beach.

But, yeah, LAX is pretty uniquely bad on the domestic side. I really hate what they did with the rideshare pickups.

Welcome to LA

LAX is fucking great. What are you even talking about?

You’re taking this personal, and that itself is a problem. Nobody is suggesting you don’t support black rights. Clearly you’re uncomfortable with the anger as you should be, but it’s still authentic. More importantly, you’re getting this information war thing wrong. We’re not trying to change what the right thinks of us, and it would be foolish to try. You can’t teach people politely to see all human beings as equals because denying this is a complex of coping mechanisms protecting against fear. They have to see what their actions beget.

Not really. If we played defense, that game is a blow out.

I know what you’re talking about and my point stands. Optics are irrelevant to anyone other than a puppeteer: it’s putting up a curtain so that your audience only sees the action of the puppets and not those pulling the strings. It doesn’t matter if the puppeteer is talking about her experiences or if her puppet is the one telling the story, if the audience refuses to acknowledge her experience they will rationalize how the story she or the puppet tells is invalid. Sorce doesn’t have to tell white liberals a nice story about how racism, homophobia, and misogyny have affected her life - she only has to be honest. If, as a white liberal, I can’t recognize how putting up with that kind of abuse could make her angry, frustrated and more than a little pessimistic then the problem is clearly that I don’t see her as a fellow human. This expectation that people won’t listen because the message is angry, personal, and ugly is absurd. What you’re trying to say is racists are somehow going to acknowledge their racism through logic even though their beliefs are (as Sorce said) irrational. They’re not going to listen because they’re irrational, and confronting them makes it harder to be irrational than telling them nicely.

FWIW, not sure what the point of raku arguing civility is. Civility isn't about merit: you're civil to the people you don't want to engage, and you're uncivil to the people you do. It's fine to be civil if you're asking someone to explain something with an open mind, but too few people have an open mind. When someone demands you be civil as a condition for listening to an argument, they're really only interested in neutering your argument and confirming their own biases without having to be confrontational. Ultimately, you're not going to change people's minds with argument - they need to see how their attitudes and actions have consequences and they have to deal with those consequences. If that means going low, then so be it.

I’d never thought I’d see two Scoobys arguing with each other…

They don’t have Jack in the Box abroad…

Can we deport them all to Russia in exchange for Paul Whelan?

Right back at you.

Repeat for emphasis. There’s a special hell for disingenuous pieces of shit who complain about dishonest debates while not honestly debating.