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Thoughts on toonami 2023?

CountFrylock

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CountFrylock Superstar

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10 minutes ago, PokeNirvash said:

Never before have I felt so much dread regarding the lack of acquisitions, and this is coming from someone who lived through 2009-era ACTN where the only "new to the block" show we got was the last sixteen episodes of Moribito!

I used to be quite excited for toonami and now it’s just something I could sleep through without giving a damn because the lineup has become so lackluster and most of my anime enjoyment now comes from weekly series on crunchyroll like Mashle 

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Jman Hero

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Toonami is sort of indicative of the marketplace, and right now the marketplace is “we’re streaming all this”.  The shows we are getting are shows with contracts from before the buyout and leftover kids stuff that they didn’t want to interrupt their regular schedule for.

Also, I am seriously wondering if One Piece is going to be sticking around much longer.

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Toonamiguy321 Elder

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Definitely it’s worst year of the revival era. Two acquisitions 3/4 through the year, and maybe 2 originals assuming Uzumaki makes it. I think the only thing this year that could h considered an improvement is packaging updates. What was it, 2-3 months deep into Punk Hazard and we still had Fishman bumps last year? That have done much better keeping things up to date. 
 

Im gonna say best case scenario is one more acquired show before the end of the year. But consider the 9/16 schedule has yet to be amended, I wouldn’t be surprised if we are just riding out OP and Naruto till Christmas. 

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4 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

Good bad somewhere in between?

Uneventful

Programming quality besides Food Wars, Injustice and the filleryomi wasn’t dreadful but there were only brief moments of interest, a lot of stalling and not much to show for all that stalling.

If they were not allowed to encore Unicorn and Superman the quality percentage would have been even worse and I can’t hardly imagine how they would have stayed 3 hours without them.

Dr. Stone and Superman were the only shows I genuinely looked forward to watching week to week since MHA finished its season.

2020 wasn’t much better but it had some bright spots like JoJo, Paranoia Agent and Assassination Classroom. Less fresh content but only because 2023 had Unicorn and Supes encores. For acquisitions it was marginally better because Food Wars drags 2023 way down on that front.

Honestly 2023 hasn’t been much less boring to me than 2021 or 2022 either and it’s not quite over yet. If they added a good acquisition before the end of the year and air Uzumaki then 2023 will be about the same as the past 3 years in my eyes.

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Blatch Luminary

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I haven't watched anything on Toonami since Made in Abyss S2 ended, and that was a while ago. Funnily enough, I'm more interested in rewatching FLCL Progressive via the marathon than getting to my DVR recordings of Unicorn, my disinterest in the latter simply because I've heard other people say it's mid. And I didn't even bother to tape Superman. So yeah, it's been a slow year even by the usual standards of the post-COVID era.

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OwlChemist81 Monster Mutant

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When I think about which years 2023 most resembles, my thoughts turn to 2015 and 2016, but in those years, it was more like the lack of block length driving lack of acquisitions, and not lack of acquisitions driving block length like 2023. These days Toonami struggles to fill 3 hours weekly unless it airs a marathon, although my mind boggles as to why they can't just air My Adventures With Superman after MHA at 3 AM and call that part of Toonami beginning on 9/9.

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Toonamiguy321 Elder

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3 hours ago, OwlChemist81 said:

When I think about which years 2023 most resembles, my thoughts turn to 2015 and 2016, but in those years, it was more like the lack of block length driving lack of acquisitions, and not lack of acquisitions driving block length like 2023. These days Toonami struggles to fill 3 hours weekly unless it airs a marathon, although my mind boggles as to why they can't just air My Adventures With Superman after MHA at 3 AM and call that part of Toonami beginning on 9/9.

Because in 10 weeks, MAWS would end and that would be another 30 minutes they struggle to fill. Not to mention more Blum and Dana bills as well as bumpers to make. 

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Toonamiguy321 Elder

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1 hour ago, OwlChemist81 said:

Your logic sucks. We HAVE Unicorn Warriors Eternal that can sub in. Or hell, maybe a new FLCL. No reason Toonami can't be 3.5 hours.

Yours is worse. What is the point of adding more time? How many fans do you see screaming for the block to have more reruns? In fact, you yourself admit to struggling to even keep up with 3 hours. When the 9/16 schedule dropped I saw quite a few people happy at the prospect of a cut removing a rerun. 
 

MHA is going to end early next year, and since we didn’t get any damn shows this year, MAWS/UWE/FLCL can rotate through that slot and be ignored by most of the audience. 

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atomicinumatt Centurion

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Definitely underwhelming. Do not get me wrong, I love Toonami and watch whenever I can, but there has not been a lot going on for it this year IMO. Last thing I was really excited about was MiA. Still enjoy most of what has been on this year but wish we could have gotten something else kinda big. 

Looking forward to Uzumaki and hoping that we can pick up at least one other show. We shall see but not getting my hopes up. 

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Jman Hero

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I think 2024 will be a make or break year for Toonami.  The new reality has set in that Crunchyroll doesn't want to play with them anymore, they don't have the ability to cut deals the way Hulu does, and they damn sure don't have the cash Netflix does where they can just throw money at some random studio and get a Gamera show or a Fist of the North Star remake.  So the ramshackle combination of DC stuff Gunn is trying to get rid of before the big epic reboot, low budget anime with either original concepts or exhausted IP, and the very few shows they still have on contract (and that's with the hope they don't lose them due to rising fees) has to work, because if it doesn't, you might as well shut down the block for good.  

This isn't "They're not airing the shows I want them to air".  This is "We can't air anything because it's all on lockdown, and we have no money."

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Toonamiguy321 Elder

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26 minutes ago, Jman said:

I think 2024 will be a make or break year for Toonami.  The new reality has set in that Crunchyroll doesn't want to play with them anymore, they don't have the ability to cut deals the way Hulu does, and they damn sure don't have the cash Netflix does where they can just throw money at some random studio and get a Gamera show or a Fist of the North Star remake.  So the ramshackle combination of DC stuff Gunn is trying to get rid of before the big epic reboot, low budget anime with either original concepts or exhausted IP, and the very few shows they still have on contract (and that's with the hope they don't lose them due to rising fees) has to work, because if it doesn't, you might as well shut down the block for good.  

This isn't "They're not airing the shows I want them to air".  This is "We can't air anything because it's all on lockdown, and we have no money."

2023 was their make or break year. 2024 will just be zombie mode. They have already shown us this year what they are capable of, I don’t see any evidence to suggest we will see any changes in 2024 to their acquisition power. 

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Jman Hero

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33 minutes ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

2023 was their make or break year. 2024 will just be zombie mode. They have already shown us this year what they are capable of, I don’t see any evidence to suggest we will see any changes in 2024 to their acquisition power. 

I think that 2023 was them getting used to the new normal.  2024 is if we find out whether or not it pays off or if DeMarco considers throwing in the towel after Netflix’s Devil May Cry and Steel Ball Run.

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Toonamiguy321 Elder

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2 hours ago, Jman said:

I think that 2023 was them getting used to the new normal.  2024 is if we find out whether or not it pays off or if DeMarco considers throwing in the towel after Netflix’s Devil May Cry and Steel Ball Run.

The merger changes took effect in April 2022 and we saw them immediately. They had 3/4 of that year to adapt to the new system and get 2023 back on track and instead 2023 has been the worst year so far. I could forgive them if the first few months of the year sucked and they got going after that, but that’s not the case. They have been dangling the prospect of a new show in front of our faces since April with nothing to show going into October. We are already at the point where Demarco has just given up and is content to coast on OP and Naruto and the occasional sequel season they can luck their way into. 

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Jman Hero

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18 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

i think it's less they've given up and more that nobody's willing to come to the table

we still have no damn clue what AMC intends to do with sentai filmworks(AMC+ has gained nothing from that purchase so far)and if toonami fits in any of those plans they might have for it

 

Boy isn't that the $250,000 question.  And it's not like Sentai is devoid of good material.  They have both the Uruesi Yatsura remake and Oshi no Ko.

I just hope 2023 is the year we finally put FLCL to rest for good.  No FLCL Death Metal, FLCL Reggaeton, FLCL Dubstep, or anything else.

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25 minutes ago, CountFrylock said:

Does AMC Not want to play with toonami?

it seems odd that Sentai/Hidive content isn't filling in the gaps

 

It’s anyone’s guess as to how willing AMC is to let Toonami lease Sentai licensed anime. DeMarco claims Sentai getting bought out by AMC hasn’t made things any different but as we all know, he sits on a throne of lies. I’m mostly kidding but…

It more likely comes down to a lack of money and partly due to a lack of interest. But I legitimately can’t imagine they aren’t interested in airing Urusei Yatsura so why they haven’t is likely enough a cost issue.

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CountFrylock Superstar

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42 minutes ago, Sketch said:

It’s anyone’s guess as to how willing AMC is to let Toonami lease Sentai licensed anime. DeMarco claims Sentai getting bought out by AMC hasn’t made things any different but as we all know, he sits on a throne of lies. I’m mostly kidding but…

It more likely comes down to a lack of money and partly due to a lack of interest. But I legitimately can’t imagine they aren’t interested in airing Urusei Yatsura so why they haven’t is likely enough a cost issue.

so far the AMC Buy-out has not made things much different for Sentai/Hidive(App Still sucks and people's complaints usually go unanswered)

do you really think Toonami's clamoring to add urusei yatsura to the block though?

 

 

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19 minutes ago, CountFrylock said:

so far the AMC Buy-out has not made things much different for Sentai/Hidive(App Still sucks and people's complaints usually go unanswered)

do you really think Toonami's clamoring to add urusei yatsura to the block though?

 

 

They love Rumiko Takahashi, they love “classic” anime. So yeah… I’m thinking they do.

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11 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

so why are you so interested in the idea of it coming to toonami anyways?

 

At this point I could take it or leave it. I hear the adaptation isn’t all that great. I just want to see Toonami air something I haven’t watched besides their spotty originals.

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Jman Hero

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Something that's not a half baked original (which Toonami has one good one since the original block, and it's arguable if the Shenmue adaptation is truly an original) would be nice but seems increasingly unlikely.  

If Lazarus sucks, then I don't see Toonami making it to 2025.  Knowing how wild things are, it probably gets canceled the day Lionsgate announces the cast for their Naruto movie (I maintain if Yu Yu Hakusho is a hit, between it and One Piece studios will begin fast-tracking their anime adaptation options)

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2 minutes ago, Jman said:

Something that's not a half baked original (which Toonami has one good one since the original block, and it's arguable if the Shenmue adaptation is truly an original) would be nice but seems increasingly unlikely.  

If Lazarus sucks, then I don't see Toonami making it to 2025.  Knowing how wild things are, it probably gets canceled the day Lionsgate announces the cast for their Naruto movie (I maintain if Yu Yu Hakusho is a hit, between it and One Piece studios will begin fast-tracking their anime adaptation options)

Yu Yu isn’t a Netflix US production though. I don’t expect it will get much more hype than the Bleach movie or the latest FMA film. I hope it turns out decently though.

Lazarus is Toonami’s best chance so far to produce something worth while. For their sake it better be good.

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Jman Hero

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1 minute ago, Sketch said:

Yu Yu isn’t a Netflix US production though. I don’t expect it will get much more hype than the Bleach movie or the latest FMA film. I hope it turns out decently though.

Lazarus is Toonami’s best chance so far to produce something worth while. For their sake it better be good.

Netflix has put a surprisingly large amount of cash behind Yu Yu.  It's an ongoing series, a co-production with Toho studios, and the VFX studio is the same one Legendary uses for its Godzilla movie, Scanline.  Their investment into Japanese and Korean filmmaking has gone seriously into overdrive the last few years (arguably to create a safe harbor from the strikes and Hollywood) and Yu Yu is earmarked as a big release for them, as opposed to a curio like the FMA films.

If Lazarus flops, given it's their biggest shot at an original (they don't have Takashi Miike to make an anime, but they do have Watanabe), then I don't know how much longer the block has.  DeMarco's faith in Watanabe after Space Dandy was not as warmly received as one would have hoped (Watanabe himself considers it a failure, something DeMarco heavily disagrees with) is admirable.

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Jman Hero

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On 9/24/2023 at 6:36 PM, Toonamiguy321 said:

So, do we just not have any faith at all in Ninja Kamui? 

Are we supposed to?  Given Toonami's budget for these originals, even if it is a decent series, it probably won't last longer than six episodes.  That and "this low episode count original series from one of the Jujutsu Kaisen action directors" is ultimately just a reminder Toonami doesn't have Jujutsu Kaisen because Crunchyroll.

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3 hours ago, Jman said:

Are we supposed to?  Given Toonami's budget for these originals, even if it is a decent series, it probably won't last longer than six episodes.  That and "this low episode count original series from one of the Jujutsu Kaisen action directors" is ultimately just a reminder Toonami doesn't have Jujutsu Kaisen because Crunchyroll.

Ninja Kamui will be 13 episodes according to DeMarco.

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OwlChemist81 Monster Mutant

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42 minutes ago, MasqueradeOverture said:

This shit better not be shit.

Looks about as violent as Hellsing Ultimate was from this awesome trailer:

Let's just hope it ends better than HU did, because that was kind of a mess and the animation quality dropped off a bit at the end compared to the earlier episodes. Let's hope Ninja Kamui is consistent!!

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Blatch Luminary

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On 9/24/2023 at 6:36 PM, Toonamiguy321 said:

So, do we just not have any faith at all in Ninja Kamui? 

Funnily enough, I didn't at first, but after how badly FLCL Grunge went, I'm gonna be kinder to it if only because I feel Toonami's quota for shitty content has been filled.

2 hours ago, OwlChemist81 said:

Let's just hope it ends better than HU did, because that was kind of a mess and the animation quality dropped off a bit at the end compared to the earlier episodes. Let's hope Ninja Kamui is consistent!!

Not to mention that part where the last two epsiodes were delayed, and people apparently didn't watch the finale because they thought it was something called "X: The Movie". :LithiumSmileyS:

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MasqueradeOverture Luminary

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2 hours ago, OwlChemist81 said:

Looks about as violent as Hellsing Ultimate was from this awesome trailer:

Let's just hope it ends better than HU did, because that was kind of a mess and the animation quality dropped off a bit at the end compared to the earlier episodes. Let's hope Ninja Kamui is consistent!!

Inb4 "Is it really anime if it's created by a Korean"

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Jman Hero

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9 minutes ago, MasqueradeOverture said:

Inb4 "Is it really anime if it's created by a Korean"

Well Netflix calls a bunch of shows anime that are made in Texas.  Quid pro quo, right?

Does DeMarco have any favors he can call in at this point that won’t get blocked by Netflix or local interests?  You’d think the massive Gundam fan would throw money on the table and fund a Crossbone Gundam series himself, but I bet Sony and Netflix both would block any attempt at that.  How about making a full series out of Bean Bandit?  The pilot was released a while ago and no one has jumped on it, not even Netflix who you think would be all over something adjacent to Gunsmith Cats.  
 

I don’t suppose Cannon God Exaxxion is finally under consideration (spoiler: It’s not).  If Kamui bombs, or if it ends up a joke series like Ninja Slayer, 2025 may not be reached by the block.

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Jman Hero

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Meanwhile Netflix is just “Oh, BTW.  Devil May Cry anime.”

How do you compete with this on the originals front?  
 

Hell, if you want to go “oh, but what about linear?”  Pluto TV, which is free, has several 24 hour anime channels, right now airing stuff ranging from JoJo to Sailor Moon Crystal.  This block is surviving on goodwill from yesteryear, but even now when people hear Toonami, they might start to think “that thing I watched as a kid” or in a few years, “that thing my mom and dad watched”.

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