Putin: "Stick to the timeline!"

[Top Gun]

Nabby doesn't like it when people criticize his shirtless horse-riding idol.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Top Gun

[Raptorpat]

nothing super-substantive but it appears Ukraine began the Kherson counteroffensive today.

 

[tsar4]

https://news.yahoo.com/report-drunk-russian-soldiers-in-kherson-fired-assault-rifles-at-fsb-officers-in-deadly-incident-001518057.html

[scoobdog]

Speaks to the extremely low morale.

[NewBluntsworth]

This shit could have been over and done with in April, but that's not what America and it's proxies wanted. War is better for our imperialist order, not peace. 

Threads, source -

 

Spoiler

 

[NewBluntsworth]

The "Kherson offensive" so far looks to be a bloodbath for the poor Ukrainian soldiers who seem to have been sent out for PR reasons so that sympathetic media can exaggerate any temporary gains of "liberating" small mostly empty villages of twenty houses in a field and such, places that Russia could entirely wipe off the map in seconds, with little hope of achieving any actual Ukrainian military objectives, but "we'll see."

Edited August 31, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[NewBluntsworth]

This is so bleak. Ukraine really trying to play it off like it's actually doing something smh. Media blackout, talking about re-taking a couple "villages" smgdh.

12 hours ago, scoobdog said:

Speaks to the extremely low morale.

You must mean these quotes from Ukrainian soldiers about how their is no actual Kherson offensive underway like Zelensky describes in his smoke and mirror, shadow puppet theater shows.

Somebody needs to throw in the towel for these clowns, ring the goddamn bell ref they're dying in there 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/30/zelenskiy-tells-russian-forces-to-flee-as-ukraine-counteroffensive-begins-in-kherson

 

[scoobdog]

Peddle your bullshit somewhere else @NewBluntsworth.

[Raptorpat]

To be fair I think it 100% is a proxy war at this point, but I don't think that diminishes the agency of Ukraine.

[scoobdog]

25 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

To be fair I think it 100% is a proxy war at this point, but I don't think that diminishes the agency of Ukraine.

It was always a proxy war.  Russia warned United States to not interfere before and at the immediate onset of the invasion explicitly to frame Zelensky and the conflict as proxies for NATO and its influence.

The point of contention is who made it one, and all reputable sources agree that Putin's plan all along was to draw the Biden Administration and the rest of Europe in so that they could turn on each other.

[Master-Debater131]

20 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

IThe point of contention is who made it one, and all reputable sources agree that Putin's plan all along was to draw the Biden Administration and the rest of Europe in so that they could turn on each other.

This point really needs to be emphasized. Putin expected NATO to fracture when he attacked Ukraine. Instead NATO is more united now than at any point post 9/11 and has expanded with Sweden and Finland. Even Germany has, reluctantly, come along.

To say he miscalculated is a massive understatement.  We are seeing a rejuvenation of NATO that no one could have predicted even a year ago.

[scoobdog]

Just now, Master-Debater131 said:

This point really needs to be emphasized. Putin expected NATO to fracture when he attacked Ukraine. Instead NATO is more united now than at any point post 9/11 and has expanded with Sweden and Finland. Even Germany has, reluctantly, come along.

To say he miscalculated is a massive understatement.  We are seeing a rejuvenation of NATO that no one could have predicted even a year ago.

I'm not sold that he was so inept that he truly thought NATO wouldn't rally after the invasion.  I think it's more likely he expected to delay the response long enough to get a foothold in Ukraine and force negotiations.  What he miscalculated was how horribly inept his military brass was leading up to the conflict.  You could also say he was blinded by ambition to the point he didn't see some obvious structural deficiencies that would have swayed him from taking what was already a risky military campaign.

[Raptorpat]

1 hour ago, scoobdog said:

and all reputable sources agree that Putin's plan all along was to draw the Biden Administration and the rest of Europe in so that they could turn on each other.

My understanding was that his goal was to fracture NATO prior so that it wouldn't get involved in his plan for regime change and/or annexation. But then it snapped back and clearly did get involved.

[scoobdog]

46 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

My understanding was that his goal was to fracture NATO prior so that it wouldn't get involved in his plan for regime change and/or annexation. But then it snapped back and clearly did get involved.

Right, hence him calling us out prior to the invasion.  What I meant was that he was aiming for a narrow window where he could take Kyiv before NATO and the EU could mobilize.  There is some logic to the approach:  by calling out the US, NATO and the EU well in advance, he was giving them enough time to mull the prospect of Russia crippling the energy market.  Even though everyone knows it's coming, the time it would take to overcome those differences would still be theoretically long enough for Russian Army to waltz into the capital, take out the President, and render military aide meaningless.  There isn't any scenario where the EU doesn't eventually get involved if the invasion fails, and, ultimately, them banding together is what gave the US enough cover to directly assist Ukraine even though the US was technically leading the way all along by sounding the warnings.

[NewBluntsworth]

Wait I'm confused, I thought there was some considerable consensus ITT that the plan was "genocide genocide genocide as many Ukrainians as possible" and the plan didn't work because the Ukrainian people were too feisty, or some such clownery 

[Top Gun]

Have to wonder why 95% of the shit Nabs posts is pure Kremlin propaganda. Hmmm.

[NewBluntsworth]

7 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

Have to wonder why 95% of the shit Nabs posts is pure Kremlin propaganda. Hmmm.

Natural counterweight to the fermented US state dept propaganda this thread is composed of

[Top Gun]

Uh-huh.

[Distortedreasoning]

nato should be abolish. 

but no, have another 3 billion ukraine. 

[scoobdog]

4 minutes ago, Distortedreasoning said:

nato should be abolish. 

but no, have another 3 billion ukraine. 

Why do you say that?

And before you answer, you can't use any reference to imperialism or national exceptionalism as part of your answer.

[NewBluntsworth]

6 minutes ago, Distortedreasoning said:

nato should be abolish

Absolutely it should be. 

6 minutes ago, Distortedreasoning said:

but no, have another 3 billion ukraine

War is the only thing America manufactures anymore.

[NewBluntsworth]

1 minute ago, scoobdog said:

Why do you say that?

And before you answer, you can't use any reference to imperialism or national exceptionalism as part of your answer.

"Why is imperialism bad? And before you answer, you can't use any reference to imperialism as part of your answer" 🤡 🤡 🤡

[Distortedreasoning]

Just now, scoobdog said:

Why do you say that?

And before you answer, you can't use any reference to imperialism or national exceptionalism as part of your answer.

because the soivet union doesnt exist which was the original "purpose" of nato. 

only exists now to provoke and destroy other countries.

and how you even talk about nato without bringing talking about imperialism? 

[scoobdog]

4 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

"Why is imperialism bad? And before you answer, you can't use any reference to imperialism as part of your answer" 🤡 🤡 🤡

In all seriousness, your posts offer no valid commentary and are not conducive to any discussion.

[Raptorpat]

37 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

genocide genocide genocide

To the extent that Ukrainians in the occupied/annexed territories are forcibly relocated and integrated into Russia, yes.

[scoobdog]

Just now, Distortedreasoning said:

because the soivet union doesnt exist which was the original "purpose" of nato. 

only exists now to provoke and destroy other countries.

and how you even talk about nato without bringing talking about imperialism? 

Easy.  NATO does not address any actions taken against its member states outside of their home borders.  Just because you're easily swayed by easily debunked fringe leftist nonsense, doesn't mean you can disprove this.

[Distortedreasoning]

6 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

To the extent that Ukrainians in the occupied/annexed territories are forcibly relocated and integrated into Russia, yes.

or how the west kept arming ukraine and kept pushing them out of their neutrality stance which would trigger russia to take action? 

[stilgar]

9 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

To the extent that Ukrainians in the occupied/annexed territories are forcibly relocated and integrated into Russia, yes.

Don't you get it pat, it is ok when Russia does it because America bad.

[scoobdog]

2 minutes ago, Distortedreasoning said:

or how the west kept arming ukraine and kept pushing them out of their neutrality stance which would trigger russia to take action? 

Neutrality stance?!!  So they were suppose to just sit there so the Russians could take their capitol and murder their president?

[Distortedreasoning]

9 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Easy.  NATO does not address any actions taken against its member states outside of their home borders.  Just because you're easily swayed by easily debunked fringe leftist nonsense, doesn't mean you can disprove this.

thats why they expanded so they can take action! how you even explain nato outside of europe? 

[Distortedreasoning]

2 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

Neutrality stance?!!  So they were suppose to just sit there so the Russians could take their capitol and murder their president?

there was no indication russia was interested in doing that. 

they were working with the west to provide them with energy. makes no sense for them to want to destabilize ukraine.

 

 

[stilgar]

Scoob, there is no point talking to distorted. He is so far deep in America bad there is nothing you can say that will change his mind. He has been knee deep in Russian propaganda for years now.

[scoobdog]

1 minute ago, Distortedreasoning said:

there was no indication russia was interested in doing that. 

they were working with the west to provide them with energy. makes no sense for them to want to destabilize ukraine.

 

 

OMFG

So what were Russian troops doing on the northern border?  Having a fucking circle jerk with the Belarusians?

[Distortedreasoning]

2 minutes ago, stilgar said:

Scoob, there is no point talking to distorted. He is so far deep in America bad there is nothing you can say that will change his mind. He has been knee deep in Russian propaganda for years now.

yall the knee deep in russia scared propaganda. i know it was a thing way back then.

[Distortedreasoning]

3 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

OMFG

So what were Russian troops doing on the northern border?  Having a fucking circle jerk with the Belarusians?

when in february? when they already had enough of nato's bs? 

[scoobdog]

3 minutes ago, Distortedreasoning said:

when in february? when they already had enough of nato's bs? 

That must be it.  They had so much time dealing with NATO's bullshit, they could plan their absolute failure of an invasion down to the last Russian caught dead with his hand down his pants. Obviously.

[Distortedreasoning]

10 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

That must be it.  They had so much time dealing with NATO's bullshit, they could plan their absolute failure of an invasion down to the last Russian caught dead with his hand down his pants. Obviously.

i don't know whats so hard to understand about not wanting to have a hostile group like nato on your boders? we would go crazy and respond much more violently if russia or china set up base in mexico or canada. why even try to escalate things with a nuclear power? we dont need nukes on the table. 

[Raptorpat]

42 minutes ago, Distortedreasoning said:

or how the west kept arming ukraine and kept pushing them out of their neutrality stance which would trigger russia to take action? 

Action on... ethnic cleansing?

I think that's conflating two issues.

[scoobdog]

1 minute ago, Distortedreasoning said:

i don't know whats so hard to understand about not wanting to have a hostile group like nato on your boders? we would go crazy and respond much more violently if russia or china set up base in mexico or canada. why even try to escalate things with a nuclear power? we dont need nukes on the table. 

No, we wouldn't respond more violently.  We also wouldn't send in untrained conscripts with inferior equipment.  There is a fundamental disconnect in your perception that tends to skew your opinions to the point of being borderline absurd.

[Distortedreasoning]

2 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

Action on... ethnic cleansing?

I think that's conflating two issues.

you talking about the ukranian government committing genocide against 14,000 east ukranians? 

[Distortedreasoning]

1 minute ago, scoobdog said:

No, we wouldn't respond more violently.  We also wouldn't send in untrained conscripts with inferior equipment.  There is a fundamental disconnect in your perception that tends to skew your opinions to the point of being borderline absurd.

you know we would, the one time the soviets even attempted to build a base in cuba, we were ready to rain down nukes. tho not a lot of examples to draw from since we are in a good defensive position. 

[katt_goddess]

Fun Fact - Ivan Katchanovski gets a raging semi over all things Pro-Russian. When he isn't forwarding pro-Russian conspiracy theories and attempting to re-write history, he falsifies his personal credentials to make it seem like he's an expert in whatever he's peddling. 

 

[scoobdog]

35 minutes ago, Distortedreasoning said:

you talking about the ukranian government committing genocide against 14,000 east ukranians? 

lol

East Ukrainians?

[Distortedreasoning]

3 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

lol

East Ukrainians?

whats so funny about that? 

 

[scoobdog]

11 minutes ago, Distortedreasoning said:

whats so funny about that? 

 

There’s no such group.

[NewBluntsworth]

4 minutes ago, scoobdog said:

There’s no such group.

 

2 hours ago, scoobdog said:

In all seriousness, your posts offer no valid commentary and are not conducive to any discussion.

 

[Raptorpat]

1 hour ago, Distortedreasoning said:

you talking about the ukranian government committing genocide against 14,000 east ukranians? 

Are you talking about the pre-invasion war? Or something else?

[scoobdog]

27 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

East Ukrainians... duh.

Hmmm...

 

19 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

Are you talking about the pre-invasion war? Or something else?

Oh, so this is about the separatist fighting in the Donbas?  There were 14,000 deaths in that conflict?

[Raptorpat]

[scoobdog]

55 minutes ago, Raptorpat said:

So Nabbie and Distorted are pro-separatist.  I guess that makes sense.+