if toonami was mostly american cartoons would the block be more successful?

[CountFrylock]

this thought came after seeing a post on the anime superheroes/toonzone forum in response to the harley quinn marathon

where someone stated

" I know some anime fans want the block to be pure anime, but American toons have a place on the block and probably a big part of the block's success. A few kids watching classic Toonami were probably drawn in by Justice League and Teen Titans, but stayed for DBZ. If Toonami could have Harley Quinn as more than a one week rental, it probably would be the biggest draw on the block as the DC movies last year spanked the crap out of the regular lineup in ratings. As popular as anime is, the DC cartoons got way more attention than all the non DBZ or Naruto anime on classic Toonami."

[The1gairon]

I hope that won't be the case.

[CountFrylock]

40 minutes ago, elfie said:

I hope that won't be the case.

when i asked if they thought an all american toonami block would be more successful

they said

"Sadly, yes. Anime is too foreign. That's why no real anime will ever be as popular in America as Avatar: The Last Airbender. The only problem is that pretty much all American adult action animation (Castlevania,Invincible, DC stuff) is stuck on streaming."

[The1gairon]

....

AM I GONNA HAVE TO PANIC WHILE READING THE DC MOVIE RELEASE SCHEDULE EVERY MONTH NOW!??

[CountFrylock]

1 minute ago, elfie said:

....

AM I GONNA HAVE TO PANIC WHILE READING THE DC MOVIE RELEASE SCHEDULE EVERY MONTH NOW!??

no you aren't this is just what one random person thinks according to ratings for the dc movies and how it seems like more attention is paid to them than the regular lineup

because Anime is too weird and Japanese for the average american

[MasqueradeOverture]

1 hour ago, CountFrylock said:

when i asked if they thought an all american toonami block would be more successful

they said

"Sadly, yes. Anime is too foreign. That's why no real anime will ever be as popular in America as Avatar: The Last Airbender. The only problem is that pretty much all American adult action animation (Castlevania,Invincible, DC stuff) is stuck on streaming."

But more people know who Vegeta is than Zuko tho...

[CountFrylock]

11 minutes ago, MasqueradeOverture said:

But more people know who Vegeta is than Zuko tho...

Yeah exactly but when i asked them to explain just what they mean by it being too foreign for most americans

this is the response i got

"Probably just how very over the top it is with the shouting and spiky hair and people shooting lasers out of their hands and other shonen stereotypes that aren't like your typical American cartoon. American superhero cartoons might be a little bit over the top, but in a normal American way. All the Japanese attack names and jargon made Naruto the far more niche title than the mainstream Avatar: The Last Airbender. The overall attacks and methods of doing the attacks (ninja hand signs) were also seen as weird and complicated compared to American superheroes. Yes, DBZ and Naruto aren't the only anime in existence, but they were the only ones (aside from Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh) known to general pop culture. Then we get the really weird abstract stuff like Paranoia Agent, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Serial Experiments Lain. Adult Swim has exposed audiences to the weird artsy stuff and that also has an impact on people fearing watching anime expecting it all to be like Paranoia Agent. Those factors are probably why anime can't reach the mainstream."

 

not sure how to respond to that....

Edited July 14, 2021 by CountFrylock

[PokeNirvash]

Clearly the guy's just in denial that anime is more popular now than it's ever been in the States.

[CountFrylock]

18 minutes ago, PokeNirvash said:

Clearly the guy's just in denial that anime is more popular now than it's ever been in the States.

He's the kind of guy who sees any DC event as a blessing for toonami and the regular toonami block as being too niche to garner much attention

[The1gairon]

DC movies and the TOM anime ONA are both ideas DeMarco thought up to fill the time that would've been reserved for a TIE, because he said they're taking a few years-old break from it due to budgets.

[Sketch]

DC shows played a substantial role in the success of Toonami on CN. Particularly Teen Titans on Saturday night Toonami but that eventually lost it's crown to Naruto.

Batman, Superman and Batman Beyond got a lot of play on weekday Toonami and Justice League ran a bit (all of JLU premiered on Saturday Toonami but it was gone by 2006) and The Batman only aired about a season and a half before Toonami never bothered with it again and it was sent to Boomerang. I don't think any of those shows actually matched DBZ in performance on Toonami but they probably did better than some anime.

Beware the Batman did pretty dang well on Toonami at 3am and then 2:30am. Had they put it in a decent time slot it probably would have done better than everything on at the time except Attack on Titan, Bleach and maybe Naruto Shippuden. Back in 2012, 2013 or even 2014 Young Justice likely would have done quite well for Toonami, at least as well as ThunderCats 2011 did. But it's been close to a decade since then and the series streamed on Netflix for a while. It doesn't seem to be quite as evergreen as Avatar the Last Airbender or Naruto (Naruto was seriously in the top 10 Netflix shows for kids this last year). If it was put on Toonami now it would likely do better than most anime but I doubt it would do more than about 250-300k most weeks.

The DC movie nights were three of the best rated nights for Toonami in 2020. Harley Quinn will be a good test to see if something that's been streamed on HBO Max and aired on Syfy (and one night on TBS) can do well on Toonami. I'm hopeful it can do well and if that's the case then maybe Young Justice could also do well.

That said, unless they dig into stuff from the 90s into the 2000s, there's not many DC shows they can feasibly air. Harley Quinn and Young Justice are the only ones with a decent amount of episodes that are still in production. The upcoming Batman show might work though, it seems to be targeting a wider age range. Some folks would certainly love to see the likes of Batman: TAS or Justice League air regardless of how old they are and most of those shows have an HD version that could air but I honestly don't know how well those would do. DBZ does well largely because of nostalgia so maybe Batman could as well? It's not the worst idea. I'd very much welcome some old DC shows into the back-end of the block but Harley Quinn and Young Justice would be plenty of DC content for now if animated movies aren't on the table.

Speaking of movies...

I think it would be pretty great if they were to run DC animated films in prime time-either before or as part of an extended Toonami. DC films might be just the thing to draw people to Saturday once Family Guy leaves. I'd love to see them try that but it would be tremendously generous of WarnerMedia to let Adult Swim run a bunch of those movies. It would be a really good way to prop up Blade Runner: Black Lotus though.

[Top Gun]

4 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

Yeah exactly but when i asked them to explain just what they mean by it being too foreign for most americans

this is the response i got

"Probably just how very over the top it is with the shouting and spiky hair and people shooting lasers out of their hands and other shonen stereotypes that aren't like your typical American cartoon. American superhero cartoons might be a little bit over the top, but in a normal American way. All the Japanese attack names and jargon made Naruto the far more niche title than the mainstream Avatar: The Last Airbender. The overall attacks and methods of doing the attacks (ninja hand signs) were also seen as weird and complicated compared to American superheroes. Yes, DBZ and Naruto aren't the only anime in existence, but they were the only ones (aside from Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh) known to general pop culture. Then we get the really weird abstract stuff like Paranoia Agent, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Serial Experiments Lain. Adult Swim has exposed audiences to the weird artsy stuff and that also has an impact on people fearing watching anime expecting it all to be like Paranoia Agent. Those factors are probably why anime can't reach the mainstream."

 

not sure how to respond to that....

I think this person is pretty wrong on most of the points they're making here, given just how much anime fandom has permeated the general Western consciousness. What they're describing sounds more like the situation around 2005 or so than that in 2021. I'd also challenge the assertion that Avatar is more "mainstream" (however we even define that) than Naruto is. I've certainly seen far, far more merch of the latter being worn publicly than the former. I think the biggest issue they have is that they're trying to compare the block as it exists today to what was airing after school in 2001. Today's Toonami shares essentially nothing in common with that television block other than the name and visual trappings, especially not its purpose and intended audience. I have nothing at all against seeing American content on the block, but what content exactly? There is precious little American action animation out there, and almost all of it is produced by Netflix. Like Sketch said, your best options are older series, and as much as I'd be super-down for a Batman:TAS run, I don't think relying on reruns more than 15 or 20 years old is a good move for the block. At the end of the day anime offers a far broader selection of content than American animation ever could.

That being said, the occasional DC movie night works well as a special event (Corporate Synergy and all that), and I think it would be a good idea to tap into that catalog more if they can. I'm not sure if I'll bother tuning in for the Harley Quinn marathon, maybe just a bit to see what it's like and give it a shot.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Top Gun

[The1gairon]

19 minutes ago, Sketch said:

DC shows played a substantial role in the success of Toonami on CN. Particularly Teen Titans on Saturday night Toonami but that eventually lost it's crown to Naruto.

Batman, Superman and Batman Beyond got a lot of play on weekday Toonami and Justice League ran a bit (all of JLU premiered on Saturday Toonami but it was gone by 2006) and The Batman only aired about a season and a half before Toonami never bothered with it again and it was sent to Boomerang. I don't think any of those shows actually matched DBZ in performance on Toonami but they probably did better than some anime.

Beware the Batman did pretty dang well on Toonami at 3am and then 2:30am. Had they put it in a decent time slot it probably would have done better than everything on at the time except Attack on Titan, Bleach and maybe Naruto Shippuden. Back in 2012, 2013 or even 2014 Young Justice likely would have done quite well for Toonami, at least as well as ThunderCats 2011 did. But it's been close to a decade since then and the series streamed on Netflix for a while. It doesn't seem to be quite as evergreen as Avatar the Last Airbender or Naruto (Naruto was seriously in the top 10 Netflix shows for kids this last year). If it was put on Toonami now it would likely do better than most anime but I doubt it would do more than about 250-300k most weeks.

The DC movie nights were three of the best rated nights for Toonami in 2020. Harley Quinn will be a good test to see if something that's been streamed on HBO Max and aired on Syfy (and one night on TBS) can do well on Toonami. I'm hopeful it can do well and if that's the case then maybe Young Justice could also do well.

That said, unless they dig into stuff from the 90s into the 2000s, there's not many DC shows they can feasibly air. Harley Quinn and Young Justice are the only ones with a decent amount of episodes that are still in production. The upcoming Batman show might work though, it seems to be targeting a wider age range. Some folks would certainly love to see the likes of Batman: TAS or Justice League air regardless of how old they are and most of those shows have an HD version that could air but I honestly don't know how well those would do. DBZ does well largely because of nostalgia so maybe Batman could as well? It's not the worst idea. I'd very much welcome some old DC shows into the back-end of the block but Harley Quinn and Young Justice would be plenty of DC content for now if animated movies aren't on the table.

Speaking of movies...

I think it would be pretty great if they were to run DC animated films in prime time-either before or as part of an extended Toonami. DC films might be just the thing to draw people to Saturday once Family Guy leaves. I'd love to see them try that but it would be tremendously generous of WarnerMedia to let Adult Swim run a bunch of those movies. It would be a really good way to prop up Blade Runner: Black Lotus though.

Sadly I realized I come to Toonami for anime.

[Sketch]

57 minutes ago, elfie said:

Sadly I realized I come to Toonami for anime.

There’s nothing wrong with that.

[OwlChemist81]

Not mostly American cartoons, but perhaps an American Cartoon or two at almost all times might not be a terrible idea, as long as they are action or at least physical comedy related.

[CountFrylock]

5 hours ago, Top Gun said:

I think this person is pretty wrong on most of the points they're making here, given just how much anime fandom has permeated the general Western consciousness. What they're describing sounds more like the situation around 2005 or so than that in 2021. I'd also challenge the assertion that Avatar is more "mainstream" (however we even define that) than Naruto is. I've certainly seen far, far more merch of the latter being worn publicly than the former. I think the biggest issue they have is that they're trying to compare the block as it exists today to what was airing after school in 2001. Today's Toonami shares essentially nothing in common with that television block other than the name and visual trappings, especially not its purpose and intended audience. I have nothing at all against seeing American content on the block, but what content exactly? There is precious little American action animation out there, and almost all of it is produced by Netflix. Like Sketch said, your best options are older series, and as much as I'd be super-down for a Batman:TAS run, I don't think relying on reruns more than 15 or 20 years old is a good move for the block. At the end of the day anime offers a far broader selection of content than American animation ever could.

That being said, the occasional DC movie night works well as a special event (Corporate Synergy and all that), and I think it would be a good idea to tap into that catalog more if they can. I'm not sure if I'll bother tuning in for the Harley Quinn marathon, maybe just a bit to see what it's like and give it a shot.

I Challenged his view and said naruto's far more known than avatar the last airbender to which he responded with this...

"At least when I was in high school in the 00s, Aang and Zuko were far more well known than Naruto and Sasuke. Anime fans were mocked and bullied, but it was okay to like Avatar the Last Airbender and a few anime like Pokemon were okay to like without mockery. It even got a crappy mega budget live action film, which Naruto never got. Okay, I know that anime is a lot more popular and less niche with the 2010s, but I am quite surprised if it really has surpassed American toons with the Zoomer generation. Based on your posts, I'm guessing you're part of that younger Zoomer generation. We at least know that the DC movies do better in the normal lineup than ratings, so it seems that American toons are more popular at least with the entire 18-35 demographic. There might be some in the 18-25 demo who prefer anime to American cartoons, but a much smaller quantity of the 25-35 demo is into anime. Granted, a great portion of that 25-35 demo that watches anime might be small, but they are the super passionate fans who watched stuff like YuYu Hakusho and Rurouni Kenshin back in the day and got bullied for it. Sure American cartoons would cast a wider net, but the airing rights for them are really hard to get. Besides, Adult Swim has been a strong proponent of anime and would air them even if they aren't as mainstream with American cartoons. They know the majority of anime fans are Zoomers who use streaming, but it seems like Adult Swim's primary audience seems to be that small niche of Millennial fans who watched anime back when it was heavily stigmatized."

and another person chimed in with this short response afterwards

 

"I wouldn't go that far either. While I wouldn't call Naruto obscure exactly, I also don't know if the general public is really that familiar with it. It isn't quite on the level of DBZ where even if you don't watch anime you would have heard of it. Avatar's explosion in popularity last year when it landed on Netflix would probably give it a noticeable edge when it comes to the general public being familiar with it."

 

the first one tells me this person truly bases this opinion on high school experiences and how students there were far more familiar with avatar characters than naruto characters because they teased and tormented anime fans

then goes on to claim because avatar the last airbender got a crappy movie that put its above naruto in the eyes of most american's

what really annoys me is they assume I'm a zoomer just because i claim Naruto And Sasuke are more well known than Aang And Zuko(I'm Not...i was born in 1989)

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Jman]

Hoo boy, where to even begin with this?

First off, what adult action cartoons?  There’s a bunch of movies DC has with a new one once every couple of months, the one Harley Quinn cartoon, and what else?  Forgiving that Harley Quinn would run into the exact same problem as their anime lineup (it’s available elsewhere in a more convenient, less edited format) what else could they possibly use that they wouldn’t have to pay quite a bit for?  I guess there’s one season of Magical Girl Friendship Squad on Siffy, you know, the magical girl parody drawn in bean mouth that makes fun of anime fans for being misogynists?  That’ll do great.  

Then there’s the fact that at this point, most of the adult animation on Netflix that isn’t raw comedy outright pretends to be anime.  Castlevania?  Claims it’s anime but made in Texas.  

The core problem the block has is a rather simple one.  Most of what it airs can be watched elsewhere at a more convenient time without any fear of the BS&P.   Doesn’t matter where it’s coming from, that’s the issue.  The solution was to make co-productions, but that takes money and Crunchyroll is off to Sony.  So where’s the money going to come from?

[Jman]

9 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

when i asked if they thought an all american toonami block would be more successful

they said

"Sadly, yes. Anime is too foreign. That's why no real anime will ever be as popular in America as Avatar: The Last Airbender. The only problem is that pretty much all American adult action animation (Castlevania,Invincible, DC stuff) is stuck on streaming."

If Avatar was so goddamn popular they would have kept making sequels after Korra instead of being stuck in a near decade rut.

[CountFrylock]

30 minutes ago, Jman said:

If Avatar was so goddamn popular they would have kept making sequels after Korra instead of being stuck in a near decade rut.

this message again confuses me

"I wouldn't go that far either. While I wouldn't call Naruto obscure exactly, I also don't know if the general public is really that familiar with it. It isn't quite on the level of DBZ where even if you don't watch anime you would have heard of it. Avatar's explosion in popularity last year when it landed on Netflix would probably give it a noticeable edge when it comes to the general public being familiar with it."

was there really a big popularity boost for avatar the last airbender from being on netflix?

regardless they seem to speak from experiences growing up in an area where liking anime meant you were bullied and mocked

however the problem is they seem to think that's everyone's experience

saying "At My High school Aang and zuko were more known and popular than naruto and sasuke  anime fans were bullied and tormented but it was okay to like avatar the last airbender" doesn't mean everyone thought the same as that one high school

in my opinion claiming Anime is too Foreign for Most american's and that they don't care for non-american cartoons sounds really stupid

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Jman]

If you’re going to use the Netflix kids rankings as a measure of popularity, Avatar and Naruto are pretty much neck and neck in views.

Look, I’m not anti-Western animation, far from it, but the question, once again is where is it going to come from, and why should people watch it on Toonami when it’s available elsewhere?

And yes, I get the bullying thing too.  In 2004-2005.  But it’s 2021.  The Demon Slayer movie was packed in theaters!  Fortnite is about to introduce a bunch of anime characters.  Anime on Netflix, provided it’s the right show, regularly competes for the Top 10, and a lot of the Western animation that does outright lies about being anime.  We’re older.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Jman

[CountFrylock]

4 minutes ago, Jman said:

If you’re going to use the Netflix kids rankings as a measure of popularity, Avatar and Naruto are pretty much neck and neck in views.

Look, I’m not anti-Western animation, far from it, but the question, once again is where is it going to come from, and why should people watch it on Toonami when it’s available elsewhere?

And yes, I get the bullying thing too.  In 2004-2005.  But it’s 2021.  The Demon Slayer movie was packed in theaters!  Fortnite is about to introduce a bunch of anime characters.  Anime on Netflix, provided it’s the right show, regularly competes for the Top 10, and a lot of the Western animation that does outright lies about being anime.  We’re older.

". Yes, DBZ and Naruto aren't the only anime in existence, but they were the only ones (aside from Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh) known to general pop culture. Then we get the really weird abstract stuff like Paranoia Agent, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Serial Experiments Lain. Adult Swim has exposed audiences to the weird artsy stuff and that also has an impact on people fearing watching anime expecting it all to be like Paranoia Agent. Those factors are probably why anime can't reach the mainstream."

how would you respond to this comment?

i can easily say the bullying experience this person had is no reason to just think "Oh Anime is Some Niche Garbage that only a small section of people online are into"

not only that but this idea that Anime is too Japanese for Americans is bizarre....just this statement alone tells me the opinion this person has on the matter

 

"Probably just how very over the top it is with the shouting and spiky hair and people shooting lasers out of their hands and other shonen stereotypes that aren't like your typical American cartoon. American superhero cartoons might be a little bit over the top, but in a normal American way."

 

[Jman]

This might have had some truth to it 15 years ago.  A lot of stuff was different 15 years ago.  Streaming as we know it didn’t exist.  The UFC was seen as too brutal for cable television let alone ESPN so it had to air a reality show on Spike TV, which no longer exists.  This wasn’t outside Madison Square Garden -

 

15 years ago Baki couldn’t get on Adult Swim because they were the only game in town, now it’s among the most popular shows on Netflix.  Same with the work of the manga-ka’s daughter, Beastars.  How well does Beastars perform on Adult Swim in 2004 when Sealab 2021 is making endless “anime sucks” jokes?  Not very.  Does Demon Slayer do comparable views to the Crown if we’re still playing by those rules?  No.

The world has changed.  Dramatically.  And expecting the market to be the exact same as it was in 2005 is a recipe for disaster.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Jman

[CountFrylock]

25 minutes ago, Jman said:

This might have had some truth to it 15 years ago.  A lot of stuff was different 15 years ago.  Streaming as we know it didn’t exist.  The UFC was seen as too brutal for cable television let alone ESPN so it had to air a reality show on Spike TV, which no longer exists.  This wasn’t outside Madison Square Garden -

15 years ago Baki couldn’t get on Adult Swim because they were the only game in town, now it’s among the most popular shows on Netflix.  Same with the work of the manga-ka’s daughter, Beastars.  How well does Beastars perform on Adult Swim in 2004 when Sealab 2021 is making endless “anime sucks” jokes?  Not very.

The world has changed.  Dramatically.  And expecting the market to be the exact same as it was in 2005 is a recipe for disaster.

and that's something this person doesn't realize

they keep harping on and on about how Most American's find Anime too foreign and weird for them

 

"We at least know that the DC movies do better in the normal lineup than ratings, so it seems that American toons are more popular at least with the entire 18-35 demographic. There might be some in the 18-25 demo who prefer anime to American cartoons, but a much smaller quantity of the 25-35 demo is into anime. Granted, a great portion of that 25-35 demo that watches anime might be small, but they are the super passionate fans who watched stuff like YuYu Hakusho and Rurouni Kenshin back in the day and got bullied for it. Sure American cartoons would cast a wider net, but the airing rights for them are really hard to get. Besides, Adult Swim has been a strong proponent of anime and would air them even if they aren't as mainstream with American cartoons. They know the majority of anime fans are Zoomers who use streaming, but it seems like Adult Swim's primary audience seems to be that small niche of Millennial fans who watched anime back when it was heavily stigmatized."

 

this specific part of the last post they made really makes me facepalm...The Nielsen Ratings aren't the overall undeniable truth when it comes to what american tastes are  

We're talking about a system that only counts a small selection of the country in a randomly selected way

 

that's his problem he's using TV Ratings to try and say "This is how america feels about anime!" when streaming services exist and We've seen that contrary to what TV Ratings would tell you on toonami

 

Anime isn't some super obscure thing that only a small percentage of the country is into

 

Last Year In December When I Went to Walmart  They had Volumes of MHA alongside some marvel and dc trade paperbacks

 

Manga Publishers are currently dealing with supply problems due to an overwhelmingly unexpected increase in readership since last year due to covid-19

 

so to say these series are obscure and only known by a very small percent of the country just sounds...really dumb

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Jman]

He is living in the past.  Comics can't sell for crap, the top 20 graphic novels sold in the US have been dominated by manga for close to a year now, and we don't have American action cartoons that do well.  Infinity Train was ultra-cancelled because kids didn't want to watch the writer's therapy sessions, the only reason Steven Universe wasn't cancelled damn near immediately was because of the PR nightmare Rebecca Sugar would have sprung by calling the network homophobic, and most people aren't watching stuff via TV anymore anyway.  Did you see the Emmy nominations?  It's is predominantly streaming shows, Mandalorian, The Crown, WandaVision, etc...

It's kind of crazy.  I've rallied against Toonami fans being stuck in the past, but this guy is even further stuck in the past.  

[CountFrylock]

so what would you tell him then?

[Jman]

1 minute ago, CountFrylock said:

so what would you tell him then?

The same thing I tell hardcore Toonami worriers.  The market has fundamentally changed, Netflix is making a small fortune off of anime and would be more than happy to take any Toonami doesn't want to air (Chainsaw Man anyone?) but most important, where's the money coming from?  Where is the money coming from?  Is Magical Girl Friendship Squad the sort of thing you want on Toonami because that's pretty much all they can afford.

[CountFrylock]

1 hour ago, Jman said:

The same thing I tell hardcore Toonami worriers.  The market has fundamentally changed, Netflix is making a small fortune off of anime and would be more than happy to take any Toonami doesn't want to air (Chainsaw Man anyone?) but most important, where's the money coming from?  Where is the money coming from?  Is Magical Girl Friendship Squad the sort of thing you want on Toonami because that's pretty much all they can afford.

He's not saying he expects that content but that stuff like DC Animated movies tend to do better in the ratings than anything else on toonami

which again I've always rolled my eyes at because even before streaming services existed....TV Ratings weren't any better

it was always some random crapshoot due to it being a small focus group of randomly selected people who would have their viewing habits gauged and collected

knowing that and trying to say that tells us how american's feel about anime is really stupid

 i said The Market's changed though and i think it's weird to claim Anime's too foreign for americans when Demon Slayer Mugen train was a massive success yet it's setting is very Japanese

and this was his response

"That is a sign that anime is coming close to rounding that corner and maybe it could get wide theatrical releases based on its success. I hesitate to say it's mainstream, but anime is becoming a larger subculture than it used to be. It probably won't touch anything like Into the Spider Verse's $190 million domestic box office gross. The next anime movie might someday get a wide release and do somewhere around $60 million domestically, a pretty good number. Anime will probably be behind American animation in popularity for some time, but it's getting to be pretty popular."

Edited July 14, 2021 by CountFrylock

[MasqueradeOverture]

17 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

Yeah exactly but when i asked them to explain just what they mean by it being too foreign for most americans

this is the response i got

"Probably just how very over the top it is with the shouting and spiky hair and people shooting lasers out of their hands and other shonen stereotypes that aren't like your typical American cartoon. American superhero cartoons might be a little bit over the top, but in a normal American way. All the Japanese attack names and jargon made Naruto the far more niche title than the mainstream Avatar: The Last Airbender. The overall attacks and methods of doing the attacks (ninja hand signs) were also seen as weird and complicated compared to American superheroes. Yes, DBZ and Naruto aren't the only anime in existence, but they were the only ones (aside from Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh) known to general pop culture. Then we get the really weird abstract stuff like Paranoia Agent, Neon Genesis Evangelion, and Serial Experiments Lain. Adult Swim has exposed audiences to the weird artsy stuff and that also has an impact on people fearing watching anime expecting it all to be like Paranoia Agent. Those factors are probably why anime can't reach the mainstream."

 

not sure how to respond to that....

Pardon my French, but your friend is retarded.

[Sketch]

Your friend seems to be entrenched in the history of stigmatization of anime and is also too hung up on ratings. Both anime and super hero content is way more mainstream now than it was in Toonami's hey day and Naruto Shippuden has been one of the top performing shows on Hulu for like a decade now. Manga is kicking the ass of American comics in graphic novel sales. Some anime are regularly in the top 10 for Netflix and as JMan mentioned all the serious animated series on Netflix are labelled as anime because that marketing works.

Sure those DC movies had some of the best ratings Toonami had last year but they were 3 weeks out of an entire year, if they ran DC movies every week they probably wouldn't be as heavily watched because they're not something outside of the norm and last year's Toonami was mostly reruns due to COVID-19 so its not a good way to judge the success of those movies. If Harley Quinn outrates a regular night of Toonami this year then maybe your friend isn't entirely wrong but that remains to be seen. But even then that's judging DC content against just what's on Toonami right now and MHA is the only show on Toonami right now that's a BIG hit aside from DBS and Titan which are reruns that are rightfully buried at 3am. Well there's also Naruto which is still popular but the point is most of the shows after MHA aren't all that popular and Toonami is getting them after they have streamed. But Toonami also doesn't have much in the way of stuff you can't see easier elsewhere so they're kind of missing big hits and hidden gems that can appeal to more people. DC animated films are probably an easier sell than a lot of anime but not stuff like MHA and Dragon Ball Z.

[CountFrylock]

honestly i think he seems too wrapped up in how anime was treated during his high school years to realize that's not the case anymore

i know this because when i brought up the success of demon slayer mugen train he just shrugged it off and said He'd Hesitate to call anime mainstream

he downplayed it's success by saying "Sure anime's becoming a larger sub-culture but it probably won't touch anything like into the spider-verse's box office numbers and Anime will surely be Lagging behind American Animation In Popularity For Some Time"

for whatever reason he just seems to have a hard time not viewing anime as being obscure and too foreign for america

Edited July 15, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Top Gun]

The only case he would possibly have is if he were limiting the scope of his argument strictly to movies, because of course no domestic theatrical anime release is going to touch the numbers of a big Disney/Pixar opening (at least not in non-pandemic times). But as for series...again, what series? There's no question that anime absolutely trounces America's animated output there.

[CountFrylock]

1 hour ago, Top Gun said:

The only case he would possibly have is if he were limiting the scope of his argument strictly to movies, because of course no domestic theatrical anime release is going to touch the numbers of a big Disney/Pixar opening (at least not in non-pandemic times). But as for series...again, what series? There's no question that anime absolutely trounces America's animated output there.

"That is a sign that anime is coming close to rounding that corner and maybe it could get wide theatrical releases based on its success. I hesitate to say it's mainstream, but anime is becoming a larger subculture than it used to be"

he really does seem to deny it's popularity a lot

"The next anime movie might someday get a wide release and do somewhere around $60 million domestically, a pretty good number."

[Jman]

At this point he’s not worth listening to.  Maybe he would have preferred Afternoon Adventures was back.

 

[Sketch]

So I lurked the Toonami news thread on the site formally known as ToonZone and now see where this conversation originated. Here I had thought CountFrylock was having this discussion with some IRL friend. Well I’m not coming out of TZ retirement to debate with Picard Man over there. He’s allowed his opinion and that opinion is allowed to be misguided. The world has changed since he got out of high school.

[CountFrylock]

8 hours ago, Sketch said:

So I lurked the Toonami news thread on the site formally known as ToonZone and now see where this conversation originated. Here I had thought CountFrylock was having this discussion with some IRL friend. Well I’m not coming out of TZ retirement to debate with Picard Man over there. He’s allowed his opinion and that opinion is allowed to be misguided. The world has changed since he got out of high school.

well i did the start off by saying

"this thought came after seeing a post on the anime superheroes/toonzone forum in response to the harley quinn marathon

where someone stated"

i didn't imply the person in question was a friend or even someone i knew IRL

anyways this topic mostly came out because it's crazy to think somebody that spends so much time discussing toonami stuff can believe anime is still some obscure foreign garbage

that most american's cannot comprehend because "It's Japanese"

no amount of success stories will make him change his mind and simply result with him saying "Well that's good but they'll always be number two to american animation...still that's a decent start"

 

18 hours ago, Jman said:

At this point he’s not worth listening to.  Maybe he would have preferred Afternoon Adventures was back.

 

Nah i wouldn't go that far...I Just think he allowed his high school memories to make him think that's still the case today  and You get bullied simply for mentioning anime

since he's a moderator on that forum  most people don't really challenge his opinions...not that anyone would be able to change it anyways

the fact he used high school as proof that More people know who Aang And Zuko are than Naruto And Sasuke proves that

 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by CountFrylock

[MasqueradeOverture]

18 hours ago, Sketch said:

 Here I had thought CountFrylock was having this discussion with some IRL friend.

Your first mistake was assuming he had any irl friends.

[EmpressAngel]

Sometimes you just have to accept that you can't fix stupid and drop the conversation before the idiot makes you have a brain aneurysm.

[CountFrylock]

15 hours ago, MasqueradeOverture said:

Your first mistake was assuming he had any irl friends.

wasn't the first mistake thinking i meant someone IRL when i clearly stated it was someone online on the toonzone forums?

if i meant An IRL Friend i would have said so and not called them "Someone"   You Don't really refer to a friend as if they are just some random person

Edited July 17, 2021 by CountFrylock

[CountFrylock]

15 hours ago, EmpressAngel said:

Sometimes you just have to accept that you can't fix stupid and drop the conversation before the idiot makes you have a brain aneurysm.

Yeah I've accepted he won't change his mind now....

what i did learn however is that either he's on this website or someone else from toonzone is and saw this topic

because i got screamed at by the moderators and threatened with a potential ban over this

Honestly didn't think people on there would care enough to start keeping tabs on forums like this to make sure people weren't badmouthing them

people mostly come here to shit post this isn't a message board they should be frequenting

Edited July 17, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Real_AirCooledGirl]

I doubt it. Anime is what makes Toonami, well, Toonami. I came to it via Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z, stayed for Gundam Wing.

Speaking of Gundam Wing, I wish they'd air that show again. I watched it in 8th grade and again by streaming dub rips in the late 2000s but never finished it.

[Jman]

1 hour ago, CountFrylock said:

Yeah I've accepted he won't change his mind now....

what i did learn however is that either he's on this website or someone else from toonzone is and saw this topic

because i got screamed at by the moderators and threatened with a potential ban over this

Honestly didn't think people on there would care enough to start keeping tabs on forums like this to make sure people weren't badmouthing them

people mostly come here to shit post this isn't a message board they should be frequenting

We’re pretty chill shitposters for the most part, which makes all this even more baffling.

He still thinks it’s 1995, Super Adventures is on, and anime is confined to that weird, weird part of the VHS store.

 

[CountFrylock]

4 minutes ago, Jman said:

We’re pretty chill shitposters for the most part, which makes all this even more baffling.

He still thinks it’s 1995, Super Adventures is on, and anime is confined to that weird, weird part of the VHS store.

 

this was the message i got

"Hi. It's been brought to our attention that you've been complaining about some of our members on another forum. We typically don't infract people for what they do elsewhere, but something like that is unacceptable. If you want to do it in private, fine, and it's okay to have your own thoughts on the subject that was being discussed and even have your own discussion on it, but posting a public thread and quoting members and complaining about what they said is not, even if you didn't mention them by name.

I'm giving you a warning. We have a three strikes system, so three warnings could result in being banned, so please keep this in mind going forward."

 

so sounds like someone here did inform them this topic existed...like i said didn't expect that at all

[EmpressAngel]

2 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

what i did learn however is that either he's on this website or someone else from toonzone is and saw this topic

Hey whoever's spying on this thread, I want you to go back to the original forum and make sure the OP knows that I called him a fucking idiot with a tiny penis.

[CountFrylock]

16 minutes ago, EmpressAngel said:

Hey whoever's spying on this thread, I want you to go back to the original forum and make sure the OP knows that I called him a fucking idiot with a tiny penis.

there's never a day where you don't seem pissed off and ready to bite someone's head off

[PokeNirvash]

It's good to have outlets for your rage, especially if they're random strangers on the internet who refuse to reconsider their opinions on things out of spite.

[Top Gun]

I was just in Kohl's and saw both an Avatar AND a Naruto shirt in their graphic tees section, soooooo...🤷‍♂️

[CountFrylock]

42 minutes ago, PokeNirvash said:

It's good to have outlets for your rage, especially if they're random strangers on the internet who refuse to reconsider their opinions on things out of spite.

that's the only explanation i guess...they refuse to see things differently than when they were in high school because it doesn't reflect the narrative of "Anime being obscure foreign stuff that american's couldn't care less about"

and i suppose when you are a moderator who has the power to ban anyone who disagrees with you

You start thinking "I'm correct!" because nobody's gonna challenge the opinions of a moderator

If He said Avatar Is Far More Popular than my hero academia everyone else would have to nod and agree just to avoid getting in trouble

Edited July 17, 2021 by CountFrylock

[EmpressAngel]

2 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

there's never a day where you don't seem pissed off and ready to bite someone's head off

My only two emotions are burning rage and unquenchable thirst.

[Jman]

2 hours ago, Top Gun said:

I was just in Kohl's and saw both an Avatar AND a Naruto shirt in their graphic tees section, soooooo...🤷‍♂️

Anime shirts aren't the "hit me" level oddity they were in 2004.  The amount of anime themed workout apparel is...quite noticeable.  

[Sketch]

I was at a department store the other day similar to Kohls and saw MHA, DBZ, Naruto, Bleach and Attack on Titan shirts.

Sorry CountFrylock I guess I didn’t pay enough attention to your initial post. I’m also sorry that name dropping the particular user probably brought out the mods wrath. I see things are much the same over there still.

I guess it is a bit rude to get a second opinion about your ongoing debate on another public forum but hardly worth an infraction on any kind.

If someone snitched on us here, I wonder if they ever found TZWatch? 🤣