if toonami was mostly american cartoons would the block be more successful?

[Jman]

Maybe I’m in a weird area being in a big city but I see HxH shirts and saw someone with a Jujitsu Kaisen shirt by the office.  I don’t see too many Owl House shirts in comparison (which is why it got canceled).

[Sketch]

As a bus driver in a city 30 minutes north of Seattle, I think I see more anime shirts and accessories than super hero ones but it’s pretty close.

[CountFrylock]

ended up getting banned over at the anime superheroes forum due to this topic lol...

 

[CountFrylock]

4 hours ago, Sketch said:

I was at a department store the other day similar to Kohls and saw MHA, DBZ, Naruto, Bleach and Attack on Titan shirts.

Sorry CountFrylock I guess I didn’t pay enough attention to your initial post. I’m also sorry that name dropping the particular user probably brought out the mods wrath. I see things are much the same over there still.

I guess it is a bit rude to get a second opinion about your ongoing debate on another public forum but hardly worth an infraction on any kind.

If someone snitched on us here, I wonder if they ever found TZWatch? 🤣

yeah the second message i got today informed me i was gonna be banned because they saw my response to them giving me one strike and decided to ban me anyways

i do wonder who here mentioned this topic to TZ/ASH Mods?

the fact they know this place even exists weirds me out

although i suppose what's even weirder is how they seemed to be watching me here to the point where

they claimed i was lying about statements related to me getting a strike

are they so pathetic that they just keep tabs on random websites to make sure nobody's talking crap about them?

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Top Gun]

What sort of chodes ban somebody over completely-innocuous comments made on another site? Tell the assholes to get bent.

[CountFrylock]

6 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

What sort of chodes ban somebody over completely-innocuous comments made on another site? Tell the assholes to get bent.

Well I'm already banned now...so i can't really do anything on there now

it sounds like somebody informed the mods over there of this topic's existence and they were going to let me off with a slap on the wrist

but when i kept talking about it..they said "Well since it's clear you weren't gonna listen we all agreed to ban you"

 

and then they had the audacity to say "We Wish you good luck in your future endeavors"

the hell? they act like I Was being fired from the website

Edited July 19, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Sketch]

Probably was a bad idea to mention the strike here but geez that’s overkill. And phooey to whoever snitched.

[EmpressAngel]

Me before: Wow, this one specific dude on that forum is a real idiot but I have no opinion about the place as a whole.

Me now: Wow, the entire site sounds like dicks and I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

So like, good job to their mods I guess if their goal was to make a whole different forum think badly about them.

[Top Gun]

Hey, if anyone over there is still reading, eat an entire barrel of dicks!

[CountFrylock]

4 hours ago, Sketch said:

Probably was a bad idea to mention the strike here but geez that’s overkill. And phooey to whoever snitched.

I Still wonder who did it and why?...

 

Just now, Top Gun said:

Hey, if anyone over there is still reading, eat an entire barrel of dicks!

And to think this all started because one moderator stuck to his opinion that anime's too weird and japanese for most americans while also stating Naruto And Sasuke are obscure nobodies compared to Aang And Zuko

 

[PokeNirvash]

2 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

Hey, if anyone over there is still reading, eat an entire barrel of dicks!

Especially you, Picard Man. You suck!

[EmpressAngel]

Y'know, I would think that Goku having his own fucking Thangiving Parade balloon is a pretty big hint that the genre isn't as obscure as that one douchebag wants to believe.

[CountFrylock]

31 minutes ago, EmpressAngel said:

Y'know, I would think that Goku having his own fucking Thangiving Parade balloon is a pretty big hint that the genre isn't as obscure as that one douchebag wants to believe.

I Could have mentioned that but doubt it would have changed his mind much....

and now he'll go on continuing to think he was right because nobody wants to challenge his opinion since it could get them in trouble

[ben0119]

Well I'm too late to the thread for this to make a difference, but I would've shown the guy this article -

https://kotaku.com/it-s-time-to-stop-acting-like-nobody-watches-anime-1823713450

It would've blown him out of the water.  And that article is from 2018!  Anime has come even further since then!  Also the Avatar argument has a pretty big hole in it's logic, since that show imitated anime to gain its popularity.  I also would have pointed out what Crunchyroll sold for.  And the fact that Star Wars Visions is being made.

But man, what a bunch of jackasses on that forum!  I'm glad I never went on it!

Edited July 25, 2021 by ben0119

[ben0119]

On 7/14/2021 at 5:42 AM, Jman said:

Hoo boy, where to even begin with this?

First off, what adult action cartoons?  There’s a bunch of movies DC has with a new one once every couple of months, the one Harley Quinn cartoon, and what else?  Forgiving that Harley Quinn would run into the exact same problem as their anime lineup (it’s available elsewhere in a more convenient, less edited format) what else could they possibly use that they wouldn’t have to pay quite a bit for?  I guess there’s one season of Magical Girl Friendship Squad on Siffy, you know, the magical girl parody drawn in bean mouth that makes fun of anime fans for being misogynists?  That’ll do great.  

Then there’s the fact that at this point, most of the adult animation on Netflix that isn’t raw comedy outright pretends to be anime.  Castlevania?  Claims it’s anime but made in Texas.  

The core problem the block has is a rather simple one.  Most of what it airs can be watched elsewhere at a more convenient time without any fear of the BS&P.   Doesn’t matter where it’s coming from, that’s the issue.  The solution was to make co-productions, but that takes money and Crunchyroll is off to Sony.  So where’s the money going to come from?

I had no idea the Castlevania show wasn't an actual anime haha.  I don't know whether to be upset or proud that it's made in Texas.

I looked up the SyFy show you mentioned.  Holy crap does it look terrible!  I won't link to any of the art so as to spare everyone else!  And it has terrible reviews!  2.7 on IMDB and 38% on Google!  And that Google rating is usually very forgiving!

[CountFrylock]

so looking at the ratings for the HQ Marathon....i can already see some of those people pointing and saying "SEE! this proves the block needs more american cartoons because three of the airings broke 400K Viewers....when was the last time  anime did that on toonami?!"

[Sketch]

It’s at least a good argument to air Harley Quinn on Toonami normally but I don’t see it as proof that old DC cartoons would do better than some newer anime.

[CountFrylock]

however...Nielsen Ratings are a small part of the picture and a very inaccurate one at that

so maybe it's best not to look at them as The Deciding Factor in What toonami should do

because then you start running the block based off what a small sample size audience wants and that just doesn't make much sense now

there's so many factors to look into...most of which we do not have access to and the one we do have access to

the majority of us aren't even counted in it(I've never been selected for the nielsen survey and i doubt many people have either)

[Sketch]

Sure but if it did that well with traditional ratings, it’s pretty likely people were also tuning in using slim packages, the AS app, etc along with DVR. HBO Max is in less homes than Adult Swim is.

[CountFrylock]

makes me wonder why more people just come out of the woodworks for DC Content then never return for anything else

an argument came up on this topic that maybe it's because those are special events out of the ordinary and they wouldn't do so well if they became a normal part of toonami

but would that really be the case?

it seems more and more likely that DC Content is just more appealing to the viewer than any anime

toonami can muster now(Even The AS/CR original fena pirate princess)

Edited August 19, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Sketch]

Well there’s no doubt any number of DC series or films would appeal to a broader audience than YashaHime, Fire Force, Food Wars, Dr. Stone, Promised Neverland, Assassination Classroom and Black Clover do.

There are some anime that are popular enough to compete and let’s not pretend Castlevania, MOTU Revelations and even Voltron Legendary Defender would do fantastic on Toonami just because they aren’t anime. The DC brand is way stronger than those. Same with Marvel and Star Wars. Marvel’s What If would do very well for Toonami but that’s not in the cards.

[Jman]

16 minutes ago, Sketch said:

Well there’s no doubt any number of DC series or films would appeal to a broader audience than YashaHime, Fire Force, Food Wars, Dr. Stone, Promised Neverland, Assassination Classroom and Black Clover do.

There are some anime that are popular enough to compete and let’s not pretend Castlevania, MOTU Revelations and even Voltron Legendary Defender would do fantastic on Toonami just because they aren’t anime. The DC brand is way stronger than those. Same with Marvel and Star Wars. Marvel’s What If would do very well for Toonami but that’s not in the cards.

Those last two bombed.  Voltron was such a disaster Dreamworks up and gave up the rights to the franchise. No I won’t let that go.  The show was a complete failure and I won’t let people rewrite that.

A lot of this is just that DC is iconic for better or for worse, and a lot of the anime can be seen elsewhere.  Fena is brand new.  Harley has had not one, not two, but three major movies.  Of course people will be curious about her show, especially when it’s usually behind a paywall.

[Sketch]

3 hours ago, Jman said:

Those last two bombed.  Voltron was such a disaster Dreamworks up and gave up the rights to the franchise. No I won’t let that go.  The show was a complete failure and I won’t let people rewrite that.

A lot of this is just that DC is iconic for better or for worse, and a lot of the anime can be seen elsewhere.  Fena is brand new.  Harley has had not one, not two, but three major movies.  Of course people will be curious about her show, especially when it’s usually behind a paywall.

Exactly. Harley brings the views because it’s Harley. Not even every DC series will draw that many viewers.

[The1gairon]

10 hours ago, Jman said:

Those last two bombed.  Voltron was such a disaster Dreamworks up and gave up the rights to the franchise. No I won’t let that go. 

Voltron was ............. that ..............  how old are you??

[Jman]

40 minutes ago, elfie said:

Voltron was ............. that ..............  how old are you??

The most recent one on Netflix, that came out a few years ago.  It was an unmitigated failure on every level, but its small audience of weirdos keeps trying to spin it was a success.

What, you thought I meant the 1984 series?

[The1gairon]

30 minutes ago, Jman said:

The most recent one on Netflix, that came out a few years ago.  It was an unmitigated failure on every level, but its small audience of weirdos keeps trying to spin it was a success.

What, you thought I meant the 1984 series?

OOOOO--ooooooo-oouuuuwww.  Got it.

[CountFrylock]

12 hours ago, Sketch said:

Well there’s no doubt any number of DC series or films would appeal to a broader audience than YashaHime, Fire Force, Food Wars, Dr. Stone, Promised Neverland, Assassination Classroom and Black Clover do.

There are some anime that are popular enough to compete and let’s not pretend Castlevania, MOTU Revelations and even Voltron Legendary Defender would do fantastic on Toonami just because they aren’t anime. The DC brand is way stronger than those. Same with Marvel and Star Wars. Marvel’s What If would do very well for Toonami but that’s not in the cards.

it just sucks that the best performances from The toonami block lately have been corporate sponsored events that are less about the block and more about using it to promote something

so what kind of anime would appeal to the average american? because i often get the sense that a lot of toonami content seems too foreign and weird to the typical american viewer

Edited August 20, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Jman]

7 minutes ago, CountFrylock said:

it just sucks that the best performances from The toonami block lately have been corporate sponsored events that are less about the block and more about using it to promote something

so what kind of anime would appeal to the average american? because i often get the sense that a lot of toonami content seems too foreign and weird to the typical american viewer

The anime that will do well on Toonami, for better or for worse, isn't the anime that people can watch on Netflix or Crunchyroll whenever they want.

You have to make Toonami appointment television again, which is VERY difficult in an age of mass streaming and on demand services.   Even wait periods aren't enough, as JoJo and Demon Slayer both proved when people held out for the Netflix releases.  The Harley Quinn marathon and the locked behind paywalls DC movie events are appointment television in a way weekly airings of shows available elsewhere aren't.

Stop thinking of it in terms of geographical origin.  Start thinking of it in terms of exclusivity and hype.

[CountFrylock]

13 minutes ago, Jman said:

The anime that will do well on Toonami, for better or for worse, isn't the anime that people can watch on Netflix or Crunchyroll whenever they want.

You have to make Toonami appointment television again, which is VERY difficult in an age of mass streaming and on demand services.   Even wait periods aren't enough, as JoJo and Demon Slayer both proved when people held out for the Netflix releases.  The Harley Quinn marathon and the locked behind paywalls DC movie events are appointment television in a way weekly airings of shows available elsewhere aren't.

Stop thinking of it in terms of geographical origin.  Start thinking of it in terms of exclusivity and hype.

so in other words Toonami Can't really do anything about it then because even the originals will debut at the exact same time on crunchyroll(subtitled)giving them no incentive to watch it on toonami

and aside from that  toonami doesn't have the money to get the most exciting anime content to air exclusively on toonami

so i guess i have to face facts that toonami is doing the best they possibly can right now and ever will be able to given how things are

the anime that would make toonami popular again realistically cannot air on toonami

Edited August 20, 2021 by CountFrylock

[Sketch]

Toonami is gonna have a rough time staying relevant but it’s not going off the air any time soon. So really there’s no reason to worry about it.

[CountFrylock]

On 8/20/2021 at 5:39 PM, Sketch said:

Toonami is gonna have a rough time staying relevant but it’s not going off the air any time soon. So really there’s no reason to worry about it.

nah but i guess it just disappoints me knowing that all my years of watching the current toonami block have amounted to nothing for the block itself

due to how tv ratings are gauged....

[Sketch]

19 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

nah but i guess it just disappoints me knowing that all my years of watching the current toonami block have amounted to nothing for the block itself

due to how tv ratings are gauged....

I have mentioned this before but I want to say again that all the other ways viewership are measured through cable and satellite services and slim packages is data that the network sees and acknowledges. They don't just care about Nielsen ratings.

[Top Gun]

Yeah I highly doubt Nielsen's hardware or surveys have been all that relevant ever since everyone with linear TV service got specialized hardware that presumably phones home regularly.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Top Gun

[CountFrylock]

On 8/25/2021 at 6:20 PM, Sketch said:

I have mentioned this before but I want to say again that all the other ways viewership are measured through cable and satellite services and slim packages is data that the network sees and acknowledges. They don't just care about Nielsen ratings.

doesn't that seem like a problem though?

that the only ratings we know about are the ones that don't matter while the ones that do are private

we don't know how well Fena Pirate Princess Truly Did in it's first two weeks

we only know what nielsen ratings tell us and as you said they don't care about those

 looking at them is meaningless

so how are we as viewers suppose to feel when our contributions to the block are a vague mystery

and everything is left up to fan theories

Edited August 27, 2021 by CountFrylock

[CountFrylock]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:06 PM, Top Gun said:

Yeah I highly doubt Nielsen's hardware or surveys have been all that relevant ever since everyone with linear TV service got specialized hardware that presumably phones home regularly.

and yet people will keep discussing the nielsen ratings because it's the only stats publicly available to viewers so it's all we can use to try and gauge a tv show's success

because the network isn't gonna give us the details themselves

[EmpressAngel]

10 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

so how are we as viewers suppose to feel when our contributions to the block are a vague mystery

Genuinely, who the hell cares? Our "contributions" as customers to most businesses aren't just openly shared like that, so why should it matter here? Like, the grocery store isn't reporting to me, some random schmuck who shops there, a list of their profits every week and a breakdown over how well each department did. "Is the block doing well enough to continue" is really the only question that matters, and the answer is clearly yes.

[Top Gun]

13 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

and yet people will keep discussing the nielsen ratings because it's the only stats publicly available to viewers so it's all we can use to try and gauge a tv show's success

because the network isn't gonna give us the details themselves

People frequently talk about dumb things. The solution is simple: don't listen to people who talk about dumb things.

Like Angel said, why put any investment whatsoever in those numbers? Just watch the block and enjoy it while it's here. That's all we're supposed to do as viewers.

[CountFrylock]

6 hours ago, Top Gun said:

People frequently talk about dumb things. The solution is simple: don't listen to people who talk about dumb things.

Like Angel said, why put any investment whatsoever in those numbers? Just watch the block and enjoy it while it's here. That's all we're supposed to do as viewers.

because unlike the majority of the block  Fena Pirate Princess is something adultswim's banking on to become a Success(since it's a joint CR/AS Original project)and moving forward originals will be the trump card to prop them up against streaming services they cannot hope to outbid for popular shows

it doesn't matter how well anything else does on the block if the originals aren't a success

Acquired Shows come and go(As Seen with The Jojo Part 6 Situation)where as Originals they have some kind of actual stake in them

Edited August 28, 2021 by CountFrylock

[EmpressAngel]

But what can you realistically do with that information? Unless you have the ability to get tens of thousands of people watching the block, does knowing the ratings give you anything more than some bit of idle trivia or fodder to worry about the block?

[CountFrylock]

5 hours ago, EmpressAngel said:

But what can you realistically do with that information? Unless you have the ability to get tens of thousands of people watching the block, does knowing the ratings give you anything more than some bit of idle trivia or fodder to worry about the block?

it's simple curiosity it's nothing to do with using the information it's about the knowledge itself

 

 

Edited August 28, 2021 by CountFrylock

[PokeNirvash]

The blame for people's obsessive interest with the block's ratings honestly lies with [as] themselves. If they hadn't made a weekly deal out of showing off the Saturday and Sunday numbers in their bumpers in the mid 00s, some of us probably wouldn't be as glued to Programming Insider as we are right now.

Personally, while the ratings are neat, I don't worry about them all that much anymore. As long as Toonami's keeping on keepin' on, we'll be fine.

[The1gairon]

2 hours ago, PokeNirvash said:

The blame for people's obsessive interest with the block's ratings honestly lies with [as] themselves. If they hadn't made a weekly deal out of showing off the Saturday and Sunday numbers in their bumpers in the mid 00s, some of us probably wouldn't be as glued to Programming Insider as we are right now.

Personally, while the ratings are neat, I don't worry about them all that much anymore. As long as Toonami's keeping on keepin' on, we'll be fine.

The reason they started doing that in the first place was because it went along with the somewhat dillusional aim of getting a niche, unpopular, late-night block, a block that started early in the wee hours of the morning airing obscure anime, propelled into popularity. Toonami and Toonami fans have always had this idea at it's a special diamond in the rough. The Nielson ratings is system of measurements, and at that time was the only type we had for cable or even home entertainment in general, and people like it when the unknown is summed up in hard science. But now things have gotten a ton more complicated.

Edited August 28, 2021 by elfie

[CountFrylock]

8 hours ago, elfie said:

The reason they started doing that in the first place was because it went along with the somewhat dillusional aim of getting a niche, unpopular, late-night block, a block that started early in the wee hours of the morning airing obscure anime, propelled into popularity. Toonami and Toonami fans have always had this idea at it's a special diamond in the rough. The Nielson ratings is system of measurements, and at that time was the only type we had for cable or even home entertainment in general, and people like it when the unknown is summed up in hard science. But now things have gotten a ton more complicated.

indeed they have gotten a lot more complicated...so complicated that Nielsen Ratings aren't enough

given the many different ways people can watch shows now....Nielsen Ratings are far more outdated

https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/nbcuniversal-nielsen-measurement-tv-advertising-1235046711/