SwimModSponges Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) You think the human species could ever fully revert back to a naturalistic animal form? Like, in the event of a mass extinction on par with the dinosaurs, if pockets of humans survive and shit, think we'll just go right back to making civilizations? Like a neo-stone age? Is there anything you could imagine happening where humans lose or abandon the ability to make tools, communicate with language, express art, that sort of thing? I was thinking about Dougal Dixon's book "man after man" which envisions future human evolution through the course of several million years. Think we'll be doing this sort of shit? Edited March 24, 2021 by SwimModSponges
ghostrek Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 we're fuck that case for several thousand years with not a million
SwimModSponges Posted March 24, 2021 Author Posted March 24, 2021 Undoubtedly there will be massive changes under such a timescale, but do you believe our descendant species will fully lose the idea of society? Will we forget fire?
ghostrek Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 I don't think we develop Society actually I think it's Society it is just a pack animals concept of their pact or overarching species Community if you will
SwimModSponges Posted March 24, 2021 Author Posted March 24, 2021 Society is more than just a pack animal concept. Show me a wolf that pays taxes so he can drive on a road.
cyberbully Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 24 minutes ago, ghostrek said: I don't think we develop Society actually I think it's Society it is just a pack animals concept of their pact or overarching species Community if you will You probably believe god gave us all different languages because we tried to build a tower to heaven and he needed to stop us, because god was too dumb to realize we can't even breathe a few thousand feet in the air.
ghostrek Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 1 minute ago, cyberbully said: You probably believe god gave us all different languages because we tried to build a tower to heaven and he needed to stop us, because god was too dumb to realize we can't even breathe a few thousand feet in the air. proof of The Human Experience well technically I believe there was once originally a pan-indo-european language at one point in history but a universal language for all Humanity know there's too many language family trees that it's impossible and as I do believe a lot of the Bible is actually analogy and metaphor not actual truth although analogies and metaphor can show truth of The Human Experience spiritually speaking of course 1
cyberbully Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 Just now, ghostrek said: well technically I believe there was once originally a pan-indo-european language at one point in history but a universal language for all Humanity know there's too many language family trees that it's impossible and as I do believe a lot of the Bible is actually analogy and metaphor not actual truth although analogies and metaphor can show truth of The Human Experience spiritually speaking of course .... Bro F u c k yooooou... Looking like that should only get you so much sympathy...Can't believe people still think you're this ducking gimpy simpleton... I mean, you are quite dumb..... But you ain't retarded
ghostrek Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 1 minute ago, cyberbully said: .... Bro F u c k yooooou... Looking like that should only get you so much sympathy...Can't believe people still think you're this ducking gimpy simpleton... I mean, you are quite dumb..... But you ain't retarded actually I never claimed that I was retarded it's does offencive term and it's not actually used medically anymore anyways two out I am not not never was claiming that I was a simpleton and I actually hold a lot of intelligent conversations with people
ghostrek Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 19 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said: Society is more than just a pack animal concept. Show me a wolf that pays taxes so he can drive on a road. no but other primates do go it's been proven as fact and also I believe dolphins have a primitive Society if you will
Sawdamizer Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 Just now, ghostrek said: actually I never claimed that I was retarded it's does offencive term and it's not actually used medically anymore anyways two out I am not not never was claiming that I was a simpleton and I actually hold a lot of intelligent conversations with people *forceful air blown through nostrils* 1
ghostrek Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, ghostrek said: actually I never claimed that I was retarded it's does offencive term and it's not actually used medically anymore anyways two out I am not not never was claiming that I was a simpleton and I actually hold a lot of intelligent conversations with people I have ADHD and related learning disabilities never claimed I was retarded
cyberbully Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ghostrek said: intelligent conversations with people Settle down, Kelso... What you said was still fucking dumb, it was just coherent..... But yes, the "retarded" thing is actually on me... I see that Edited March 24, 2021 by cyberbully
cyberbully Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 1 minute ago, ghostrek said: I have ADHD and related learning disabilities never claimed I was retarded Well now I'm not so sure
SwimModSponges Posted March 24, 2021 Author Posted March 24, 2021 40 minutes ago, ghostrek said: no but other primates do go it's been proven as fact and also I believe dolphins have a primitive Society if you will Other primates 100% DO NOT pay taxes to drive on roads ghostrek. Neither do dolphins but for different reasons.
ghostrek Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 1 minute ago, SwimModSponges said: Other primates 100% DO NOT pay taxes to drive on roads ghostrek. Neither do dolphins but for different reasons. The evolutionary process will eventually make it happen or something similar I just have faith in that presuming we don't cause total Extinction of life on Earth is he like nuclear war or a I don't know super pandemic or outgrow for televangelist or paranormal reality shows
SwimModSponges Posted March 24, 2021 Author Posted March 24, 2021 A society of animals other than human will never arise on earth as long as there are humans on earth. There aren't enough resources on the earth to allow another species to advance like we did. Fuck dolphins. This ain't about them. Do you think there could come a point in the future of humanity at which we revert to a feral species?
scoobdog Posted March 24, 2021 Posted March 24, 2021 45 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said: Society is more than just a pack animal concept. Show me a wolf that pays taxes so he can drive on a road. Actually, the "pack animal" concept is nonexistent. The term is a somewhat hackneyed reference to "cooperative hunting" or "social predators," with elements of the since debunked "alpha" structure observed in wolf packs. In reality, social predation is, as the name suggests, an attempt by humans to apply a group structure that is fairly unique to primates to higher order mammals (and some fish). Yes, most animals don't have societies in the sense that humans or orangutans might have because they don't have the higher order skills that necessitate task specialization, like toolmaking or animal husbandry, but some aspects social living, like hierarchy and cooperative problem solving, are intrinsic to all animals. In that sense, cooperative hunters are social animals like humans because the human concept of "society" is the most appropriate framework useful to classifying that trait.
ghostrek Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 1 minute ago, SwimModSponges said: A society of animals other than human will never arise on earth as long as there are humans on earth. There aren't enough resources on the earth to allow another species to advance like we did. Fuck dolphins. This ain't about them. Do you think there could come a point in the future of humanity at which we revert to a feral species? I mean like a hunter-gatherer Society because that's pretty much what we were feral well I have a willy complex thing but it's going to be taken out of context so I it's going to be hard to explained
ghostrek Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, scoobdog said: Actually, the "pack animal" concept is nonexistent. The term is a somewhat hackneyed reference to "cooperative hunting" or "social predators," with elements of the since debunked "alpha" structure observed in wolf packs. In reality, social predation is, as the name suggests, an attempt by humans to apply a group structure that is fairly unique to primates to higher order mammals (and some fish). Yes, most animals don't have societies in the sense that humans or orangutans might have because they don't have the higher order skills that necessitate task specialization, like toolmaking or animal husbandry, but some aspects social living, like hierarchy and cooperative problem solving, are intrinsic to all animals. In that sense, cooperative hunters are social animals like humans because the human concept of "society" is the most appropriate framework useful to classifying that trait. well yes I know a lot of people say cats are anti-social but I have seen I seen the two cats I live with work together to solve a problem hunting a mouse once which is extremely of rare for domesticated cats
scoobdog Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 Just now, ghostrek said: well yes I know a lot of people say cats are anti-social but I have seen I seen the two cats I live with work together to solve a problem hunting a mouse once which is extremely of rare for domesticated cats It's actually not that rare. Cats on all levels have shown whole or partial ability to be social hunters. Too often, they're compared to canines who socially hunt in a different way, giving the impression they're loners.
ghostrek Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 1 minute ago, scoobdog said: It's actually not that rare. Cats on all levels have shown whole or partial ability to be social hunters. Too often, they're compared to canines who socially hunt in a different way, giving the impression they're loners. okay kind of like comparing apples to oranges type deal uh I never realized that
SwimModSponges Posted March 25, 2021 Author Posted March 25, 2021 Ok, but still. No other animal uses fire to cook their food. There's our baseline between feral and societal. Sound fair? Do you think there will ever come a time when we lose that ability and have to go back to chewing meat directly from the carcass of a wildebeast?
ghostrek Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 15 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said: Ok, but still. No other animal uses fire to cook their food. There's our baseline between feral and societal. Sound fair? Do you think there will ever come a time when we lose that ability and have to go back to chewing meat directly from the carcass of a wildebeast? not yet but do you realize once we develop space colonies it would be kind of similar to Dune and earth will be forgotten
SwimModSponges Posted March 25, 2021 Author Posted March 25, 2021 52 minutes ago, ghostrek said: not yet but do you realize once we develop space colonies it would be kind of similar to Dune and earth will be forgotten Bullshit.
ghostrek Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 1 minute ago, SwimModSponges said: Bullshit. what part
SwimModSponges Posted March 25, 2021 Author Posted March 25, 2021 Ok, I was being a little harsh. It's been a while since I read it, but if I recall correctly in the book some of the human descendant species genetically engineered themselves out in space, and some of em stayed behind in tribal communes, then a few million years pass and shit gets weird.
scoobdog Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 17 hours ago, SwimModSponges said: Ok, but still. No other animal uses fire to cook their food. There's our baseline between feral and societal. Sound fair? Do you think there will ever come a time when we lose that ability and have to go back to chewing meat directly from the carcass of a wildebeast? That's still arbitrary. It might distinguish a higher order animal from a lower order one, but it has little relevance in the social interaction between animals of the same species.
SwimModSponges Posted March 25, 2021 Author Posted March 25, 2021 26 minutes ago, scoobdog said: It might distinguish a higher order animal from a lower order one, Ok, let's do that then. Think we'll ever go from a higher order animal to a lower one?
scoobdog Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 Just now, SwimModSponges said: Ok, let's do that then. Think we'll ever go from a higher order animal to a lower one? No. Whether or not humans stop socializing, they can't unlearn the ability to make the tools they use.
SwimModSponges Posted March 25, 2021 Author Posted March 25, 2021 Even after a couple million years of evolution turns us inti different species?
scoobdog Posted March 25, 2021 Posted March 25, 2021 1 hour ago, SwimModSponges said: Even after a couple million years of evolution turns us inti different species? Think about it for a minute: what conditions would have to exist for humans to lose one of their core instinctual abilities? This isn't just a skill that we learned, it's a trait, an ability to problem solve, we use in just about everything we do, including in basic functions like sustenance and finding shelter.
SwimModSponges Posted March 25, 2021 Author Posted March 25, 2021 Exactly. Like birds and flying. Except penguins and ostriches. Do you think after millions of years of evolution our offspring species gonna ostrich out?
1pooh4u Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 Do you mean like hairy, hunchback, knuckle dragging people, or just, we blew shit up so we can’t technology, people?
scoobdog Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 6 hours ago, SwimModSponges said: Exactly. Like birds and flying. Except penguins and ostriches. Do you think after millions of years of evolution our offspring species gonna ostrich out? Pretty sure this analogy doesn't say what you think it says.
RainyDayJizz#35 Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 I think there's a tendency towards a return to an agrarian society but I don't think an attachment to nature could make aspects of our mind less necessary. If humans developed to the point where a life harmonious with nature was an objective we would evolve into planet custodians more likely than dolphins. And if we evolved into dolphins we would build cities.
Seight Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 12 hours ago, SwimModSponges said: Exactly. Like birds and flying. Except penguins and ostriches. Do you think after millions of years of evolution our offspring species gonna ostrich out? On 3/24/2021 at 8:32 PM, Seight said: Two words: CRAB PEOPLE
SwimModSponges Posted March 26, 2021 Author Posted March 26, 2021 8 hours ago, 1pooh4u said: Do you mean like hairy, hunchback, knuckle dragging people, or just, we blew shit up so we can’t technology, people? Neither. Y'all just need to read this book so we can all be on the same page here.
1pooh4u Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 What book? Are you trying to get me to read the Bible?
SwimModSponges Posted March 26, 2021 Author Posted March 26, 2021 On 3/24/2021 at 2:44 PM, SwimModSponges said: , I was thinking about Dougal Dixon's book "man after man" which envisions future human evolution through the course of several million years. Think we'll be doing this sort of shit?
scoobdog Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 6 hours ago, SwimModSponges said: Neither. Y'all just need to read this book so we can all be on the same page here. It's science fiction. Pretty sure Dixon wasn't advocating for de-evolution of humans into lower order creatures.
RainyDayJizz#35 Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 On 3/24/2021 at 12:44 PM, SwimModSponges said: ? No, I don't think there is anything to drive this other than human eradication. The way physicists typify societies is a good progression, but the means of achieving any of them are vague. When we begin to cooperate as a world how much does that mean? If one planet genetically engineers themselves into oblivion for freedom does orderly society need to care when they have to deal with zero of it ever? The longer we hang on the further our intelligence will develop and we would probably live like the Chozo, gently guiding nature to form our home instead of reconstructing it.
SwimModSponges Posted March 26, 2021 Author Posted March 26, 2021 Human eradication and mass extinction exents are totally at play here. This is a thought exercise that spans millions and tens of millions of years. Back in the day dinosaurs were the largest living land animals, now they mostly all just fly around. What will 65 million years of evolution do to us? Did we "remove" ourselves from evolution by creating advanced technological society? Is it all advanced technological society from here on out or will changes in the environment effect changes in the genome of future human species?
RainyDayJizz#35 Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 But your initial posit was devolving, which I think is an impossibility. I came out a door and waved a raccoon out of the trash and led it across the street. After we negotiated this movement i bowed and said thank you, because I'm weird. But the raccoon bowed back. The chaos everything looks like, evolution only sharpens. Wild animals negotiate with predators and point out the idiots to kill. The brain will not degrade. 1
SwimModSponges Posted March 26, 2021 Author Posted March 26, 2021 I did not say "devolve," and evolution isn't about continuous improvement or working towards some goal. Evolution is the genes that survive the metaphorical field of bullets being passed on. If it were evolutionarily advantageous for brains to shrink you're damn right they would. Here, read the damn book. https://archive.org/details/3.ManAfterMan/mode/2up
RainyDayJizz#35 Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 Possibly sometime but the advantages of problem solving are being underestimated. I was reading about bonobos and in a random treat test between them and other animals bonobos and dogs would first look at the person in the room to determine where to find the treat, presumably. And how are you gonna present a topic and require a book of backstory? Which reminds me, did you catch The Big O on somethingawful? I'm really close to buying a copy of that thing. Once 80 or so pages go by that book really goes for it.
scoobdog Posted March 26, 2021 Posted March 26, 2021 23 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said: I did not say "devolve," and evolution isn't about continuous improvement or working towards some goal. Evolution is the genes that survive the metaphorical field of bullets being passed on. If it were evolutionarily advantageous for brains to shrink you're damn right they would. Brain shrinkage is de-evolution. Humans aren't particularly big creatures to begin with, so the likelihood they would shrink to the size of, say a rat, is practically impossible in an evolutionary sense. Same goes for becoming much larger; that would involve not just building a bigger structure but building a significantly larger brain. It's not bragging to suggest that humans are unique animals; we rely more heavily on our tool creating abilities than any other species by far. It's a feature that allows us to have an outsized ability to manipulate and adapt to our environment without altering our physiological traits. Humans are the only animals that can adapt to every single environment on the planet in some form exclusively because we have an ability to create assistant devices to enable that adaption. At the same time, in a physiological sense, animals of any species of any order evolve specifically in order to survive either in a home environment that becomes inhospitable to their old trait set or in an expanded range because of population density. Our tool making ability makes the need to physically evolve immaterial: either we build an apparatus to adapt ourselves to a new and inhospitable environment or we go extinct. You can facepalm all you want, but your premise is fundamentally preposterous.
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