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Attack On Titan: The Final Season Episode #65 "The War Hammer Titan" Discussion

OwlChemist81

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OwlChemist81
OwlChemist81

Episode #65: The War Hammer Titan   It's On!!! 12:30 AM tonight (2/13-14/21) Only Toonami!

DangerMouse
DangerMouse

She's back!

AnimationFan14
AnimationFan14

It's Levi

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DangerMouse Monster Mutant

DangerMouse

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"Can't you see I'm a Titan?!"

Yeah bitch, you're country's been dumping them on their island for years so hard they've been refining their Titan killing skills and tech for decades bro.

You should pay attention to those Ymir memories ;)

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ben0119 Monster Mutant

ben0119

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4 minutes ago, DangerMouse said:

"Can't you see I'm a Titan?!"

Yeah bitch, you're country's been dumping them on their island for years so hard they've been refining their Titan killing tech for decades bro.

You should pay attention to those Ymir memories ;)

They're not scared of him lul

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DangerMouse Monster Mutant

DangerMouse

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2 minutes ago, 3ngag3 said:

Why is Galliard so freaked out? He was literally in a warzone in the first episode with a lot more people trying to kill him. With cannons no less.

Based on what he said I'd imagine he doesn't expect our Scout crew like Levi to literally charge him confidently with no fear.

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ben0119 Monster Mutant

ben0119

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4 hours ago, 3ngag3 said:

Oh look, it's giant Aizen.

 

4 hours ago, 3ngag3 said:

Seriously, Warhammer looks like some kind of Bleach Espada.

 

4 hours ago, 3ngag3 said:

A Bleach Espada with the power of Father from FMA Brotherhood.

I was going to say Warhammer Titan looked like Aizen in his cocoon form but forgot.  I noticed that during the promo.

Chrysalis_Aizen.png.5454f62baa681e643e82bf882a88abad.png

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DangerMouse Monster Mutant

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5 hours ago, Daos said:

They gave her a man jaw. Compare with what she used to look like.

 

5 hours ago, Daos said:

batman-beyond-terry.jpg

f44d218a87880e9c6d5abe6a4ea2ed241fb22297

I think it's a little exaggerated in this particular shot due to how the animator happened to draw her at that angle (maybe it'll be touched up in the blu-ray? or maybe not since it's more like the manga), but yeah the others have it too, Sasha's got a bit wider jaw than before as well in the new style.

Like here in the promo shot Mikasa's is a little more thin and pointed and less wide:

cnewshttpshypebeast.comimage202012eren-y

I feel like there's still a bit of the anime look in there, particularly for Levi, but even though I like the designs I can still say I think they went a little too far toward favoring the manga look in some of the small details. Meanwhile we haven't been watching the manga all these years, we've been watching WIT's anime designs. That said, I think they still look very good even though I would have liked to have seen Kyoji Asano's take on these aged up versions of everyone since I think he would have found a way to tweak an even better middle ground like he always did in the past seasons.

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Mikasa making her epic return and beating down the War Hammer Titan to this epic action music (also fittingly used when Levi rescued Eren from the Female Titan way back in season one).

Great little touch with how Pieck got all "oh shit, no way" panicked from the sound and glimpse of the Scouts flying past them.

 

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ben0119 Monster Mutant

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7 hours ago, DangerMouse said:

 

I think it's a little exaggerated in this particular shot due to how the animator happened to draw her at that angle (maybe it'll be touched up in the blu-ray? or maybe not since it's more like the manga), but yeah the others have it too, Sasha's got a bit wider jaw than before as well in the new style.

Like here in the promo shot Mikasa's is a little more thin and pointed and less wide:

cnewshttpshypebeast.comimage202012eren-y

I feel like there's still a bit of the anime look in there, particularly for Levi, but even though I like the designs I can still say I think they went a little too far toward favoring the manga look in some of the small details. Meanwhile we haven't been watching the manga all these years, we've been watching WIT's anime designs. That said, I think they still look very good even though I would have liked to have seen Kyoji Asano's take on these aged up versions of everyone since I think he would have found a way to tweak an even better middle ground like he always did in the past seasons.

Her body looks more masculine too.  Yes we've been watching the anime not the manga.  And why change the art style at this point?  Why are different people working on the show now? 

Of course I still have to take people's word for it.  I can't really look up the manga designs without risking spoilers.

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1 hour ago, ben0119 said:

Her body looks more masculine too.  Yes we've been watching the anime not the manga.  And why change the art style at this point?  Why are different people working on the show now? 

Of course I still have to take people's word for it.  I can't really look up the manga designs without risking spoilers.

I don't think her body type's all that different beyond being older (and taller). I think the art style adjustment basically boils down to two reasons, firstly the 4 year time skip was always going to age them up quite a bit, so they were always going to be different, but especially when the studio changed and MAPPA took it on the whole primary staff changed, so there's a totally new character designer now, Tomohiro Kishi. Like others have said, at least it happened at an appropriate time.

But yeah like I said, we've been watching the anime designs all this time and not the manga designs so I would be curious to have seen what the character designer of the previous seasons would have done to tweak these designs a bit further since I don't think he ever used the manga designs in the first three seasons as closely as the new character designer has adapted most of these.

I don't think we've ever heard officially why the change had to happen, and that doesn't seem like the kind of thing that'll ever get reported on, other than people deducing that WIT seems very busy short term with original shows they'll actually own, like Great Pretender, unlike an adaptation they're hired for like AoT. I think there were also some rumors that the Production Committee wasn't willing to wait and had this aggressive timetable for when season 4 would air so WIT said they couldn't do it on that timetable at the quality they'd hold themselves to after the immense workload of season 3 especially at the same time as their existing commitments to their own projects.

I actually really thought WIT would just suck it up in the end despite all those rumors about them leaving after S3 Part 2 and that they'd just figure out a way to do this last season after getting so close to the end of such a huge show that really gave them their fame, but at least MAPPA is an excellent studio as well that does great animation and action and we didn't get stuck with a OPM situation. MAPPA's still doing an impressive job and the show still looks fantastic so far. I was worried with them having so many shows coming out so closely together including the big new shonen, but so far the season has looked fantastic if they can keep it up since this arc reportedly has a ton of big action.

Here's the manga page that came up when I was looking for that group shot with Mikasa. Yeah, be very careful when searching due to spoilers. For me, there's just one more spoiler I've been spoiled on since a while ago so I've been pretty lucky.

9b4c3c2d04cd7079e583b42585515092.jpg

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ben0119 Monster Mutant

ben0119

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25 minutes ago, DangerMouse said:

I don't think her body type's all that different beyond being older (and taller). I think the art style adjustment basically boils down to two reasons, firstly the 4 year time skip was always going to age them up quite a bit, so they were always going to be different, but especially when the studio changed and MAPPA took it on the whole staff changed so there's a totally new character designer now, Tomohiro Kishii. Like others have said, at least it happened at an appropriate time with the time skip.

Though like I said, I would be curious to see what the character designer of the previous seasons would have done to tweak these designs since he never used the manga designs as closely as the new character designer has adapted these.

I don't think we've ever heard officially why the change had to happen other than people deducing that WIT is very busy short term with original shows they'll actually own, like Great Pretender, unlike an adaptation they're hired for like AoT. I think there were also some rumors that the Production Committee wasn't willing to wait and had this aggressive timetable for when season 4 would air so WIT said they couldn't do it on that timetable at the quality they'd hold themselves to especially at the same time as their existing commitments to their own projects.

I actually really thought WIT would just suck it up in the end despite the rumors about them leaving after S3 Part 2 and just figure out a way to do the final season after getting so close to the end of such a huge show that really gave them their fame, but at least MAPPA is an excellent studio as well that does great animation and action and we didn't get stuck with a OPM situation. MAPPA's still doing an impressive job and the show still looks fantastic so far. I was worried with them having so many shows coming out so closely together including the big new shonen, but so far the season has looked fantastic if they can keep it up.

Here's the manga page that came up when I was looking for that group shot with Mikasa. Yeah, be very careful when searching due to spoilers. For me, there's just one more spoiler I've been spoiled on since a while ago so I've been pretty lucky.

9b4c3c2d04cd7079e583b42585515092.jpg

Oh, I see.  That really sucks.  I wish WIT could have finished it for consistency and completions' sake.  The committee must have really wanted this season out fast for some reason.

Yeah they would have looked different regardless.  It is true that it's better to do it here with the time skip. It would have been much more jarring otherwise.

Taller, but Mikasa also seems more slender too.  What is the age difference?  And see looking from this page, she actually looks more feminine here than in this last episode.  Facial shape, but she also has accentuated eyelashes.  So I don't know if the issue is because of "manga accuracy." 

Though wasn't one of the criticisms of the manga that the art was sketchy and shitty looking?  It doesn't look so bad here.  Maybe it has gotten better over time.  You can see a lot of detail and elements left out though.  Look at how Eren is plugged into his Titan form and how his arms just end then there's just a bunch of diagonal lines.  So I can see what people are talking about even just looking at this page.

Although, the episode did take place at night and the characters were wearing those weird black outfits with the the weird armor and straps.  Not a big fan of them, honestly.  So the lighting and outfits could throw things off a lot too and make it hard to make things out.  I will probably re-watch the episode too and try to see things better and see if things look better the second time.

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19 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

Oh, I see.  That really sucks.  I wish WIT could have finished it for consistency and completions' sake.  The committee must have really wanted this season out fast for some reason.

Yeah they would have looked different regardless.  It is true that it's better to do it here with the time skip. It would have been much more jarring otherwise.

Taller, but Mikasa also seems more slender too.  What is the age difference?  And see looking from this page, she actually looks more feminine here than in the anime.  Facial shape, but she also has accentuated eyelashes which she doesn't even seem to have in the previous seasons.  So I don't know if the issue is because of "manga accuracy." 

Yup exactly, at least it was at a relatively good time to fit the story and overall despite such a different staff they've still carried a good amount of the style and shading to where I still feel like it's from the same production so it still mostly looks very similar despite the shift in details.

I think she was 15 for most of the show so close to 16 when they reached the sea, since the wiki says she's 19 now after the time skip. So it's a decent age difference since we last saw her.

I guess we'll see as we get more shots of her of face in future episodes and outside of combat or how she looks in daylight without all these night time shadows and perhaps in casual clothes again between missions.

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2 minutes ago, DangerMouse said:

Yup exactly, at least it was at a relatively good time and not randomly and overall despite such a different staff they've still carried a surprisingly amount of the style and shading to where I still feel some of the anime designs so it still mostly looks very similar despite the shift in details.

I think she was 15 for most of the show so about 16 when they reached the sea, since the wiki says she's 19 now after the time skip. So it's a decent age difference since we last saw her.

I guess we'll see as we get more shots of her of face in future episodes and outside of combat or how she looks in daylight without all these night time shadows and perhaps in casual clothes again between missions.

Yeah it doesn't look like a drastic shift in art style or anything.  Yes without the time skip it might have been much more obvious.

Oh ok.  I wasn't sure if the age difference.  Some people can change a lot in those years.

Yes in the day time and different outfits will make things a lot easier to get a good idea.  Though I'm not sure if things are going to calm down any time soon haha.  I just really hope the show doesn't do a flashback next week LOL.

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15 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

Yeah it doesn't look like a drastic shift in art style or anything.  Yes without the time skip it might have been much more obvious.

Oh ok.  I wasn't sure if the age difference.  Some people can change a lot in those years.

Yes in the day time and different outfits will make things a lot easier to get a good idea.  Though I'm not sure if things are going to calm down any time soon haha.  I just really hope the show doesn't do a flashback next week LOL.

Yeah lol, I agree it'll probably be a while before we get any calm again since we just finished that big tense build up to all this and kicked off the battle.

Yeah, we could have ended up with a shift much more noticeable than this, and the time skip helps.

 

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1 hour ago, DangerMouse said:

Yeah lol, I agree it'll probably be a while before we get any calm again since we just finished that big tense build up to all this and kicked off the battle.

Yeah, we could have ended up with a shift much more noticeable than this, and the time skip helps.

 

Yep I don't expect any calm, or Mikasa in casual attire or anything any time soon heh.

So, it sounds like they are using the shading from the anime (possibly the lighting as well, not sure about the lines,) and the character designs from the manga.  It sounds like they received mostly good reception from the trailer (which I can't remember if I ever watched that,) so decided to keep that same style for the episodes.

I remember seeing a report a while back that the manga was going to end in April and was like wut?  How is that going to work when the "FINAL SEASON" has already started of the anime? 

I saw a comment there from the director that I think was a typo or mistranslation, that no matter what production company is involved, it won't have the same impact once the anime has ended (I'm pretty sure that was supposed to say manga.) 

I guess what they are saying is no matter how well the anime is done, it won't have the same impact if you already know the ending from reading the manga, but they are going to try to make the anime as good as they can.  Which I can understand where that is coming from, you can only experience the ending (or any other big moments) once.  Though seeing it animated is still a big deal and a big difference.  And if myself and others who haven't followed the manga can stay spoiler free until the ending of the anime, it should be a pretty good ride.  I just don't see how that is going to work out with starting up the final season when the manga isn't ever over yet.

Also, some final arcs and endings can stand to be improved by their adaptation.  I'm really hoping that is what happens with Bleach lol and I'm eagerly looking forward to it.

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I feel horrible for the animators. A ton of people have sent them insults online and even lambasted the still poses and how the OP is just filled with explosions instead of gripping camera pans of a fight, and yet they also said drawing the average AoT face takes twice as long to do in any other anime before! Sucks.

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3 hours ago, OwlChemist81 said:

So then I guess this is really Season 5 out of 6? And here I thought we were actually watching Toonami's final run of AOT episodes, but the NEXT run might be?

Interesting! It's not a stretch then to say that Toonami may still be premiering AOT in 2022!

No idea, we'll see. I'm curious since it sounds like there's still a nice amount of stuff still left to come and like ben said the manga isn't finishing until April.

Either way Saturday's ep was packed as hell, it flew by. The wait for next weekend already feels long lol.

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23 hours ago, ben0119 said:

Her body looks more masculine too.  Yes we've been watching the anime not the manga.  And why change the art style at this point?  Why are different people working on the show now? 

Of course I still have to take people's word for it.  I can't really look up the manga designs without risking spoilers.

Mappa is gaining fame as a studio that gives stunning animation quality at a low cost (like Titmouse in the US) so they likely changed to Mappa for that reason

also....as has been pointed out, the art in this season is just the Manga's style...so basically, this is what the show should have looked like to begin with, the Old studio made the series "Prettier" than the manga

 

the old Studio also randomly changed an LGBT character's gender for unknown reasons, Zoe Hange was canonically non-Binary with their gender never confirmed at all in the Manga...the anime made them a woman for some reason

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On 2/15/2021 at 11:36 PM, mochi said:

Mappa is gaining fame as a studio that gives stunning animation quality at a low cost (like Titmouse in the US) so they likely changed to Mappa for that reason

also....as has been pointed out, the art in this season is just the Manga's style...so basically, this is what the show should have looked like to begin with, the Old studio made the series "Prettier" than the manga

Yeah they've very good. Probably that combined with WIT either turning them down after heads down so long on both parts of S3 or more likely saying they'd need an extra year to do it.

Like I said though, while it's more the manga's style than the previous character designer would have done (since yeah he gave them a bit more of an attractive touch), I do still feel like the new designs do at least still have some of the anime's extra flair compared to the manga like seeing Connie and Sasha this time (and carrying over the WIT anime's detailed shading and shadow style), and especially like Levi to me still favors his anime version a bit compared to what I've seen of his manga one (he looked more like his manga one in that first S4 teaser trailer than in this episode where he looked sharper more like WIT's design).

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OwlChemist81 Monster Mutant

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1 hour ago, mochi said:

Mappa is gaining fame as a studio that gives stunning animation quality at a low cost (like Titmouse in the US) so they likely changed to Mappa for that reason

also....as has been pointed out, the art in this season is just the Manga's style...so basically, this is what the show should have looked like to begin with, the Old studio made the series "Prettier" than the manga

 

the old Studio also randomly changed an LGBT character's gender for unknown reasons, Zoe Hange was canonically non-Binary with their gender never confirmed at all in the Manga...the anime made them a woman for some reason

"Zoe" IS almost exclusively a female name in Germany. Either way, Jessica Calvello, a lesbian in real life, was an ideal VA to play her!

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The1gairon Monster Mutant

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Just in: Sasha making her Season 4 debut wasn't without bad news from dub fans. Since Season 3, Ashly Burch has become a union-only actor, meaning she cannot be on this dub anymore, and Sasha's remaining episodes were all filled in by Megan Shipman instead. Ashly has recently started recording as the lead role in a Disney Channel original animated series "The Ghost And Molly McGee", and Disney only hires union actors. Some outlets online are saying Ashly was just "too busy", since they have no idea how the profession works (and everyone's recording at home now so that would still be a lame excuse either way). This makes Sasha the only Attack on Titan character whose dub voice had to be replaced.

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