DeMarco reveals another reason One Piece got kicked out

[Lawliet720]

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I’m frankly baffled that that most of the shows on Toonami can get under 300,000 adult viewers and stay on the air. That’s really where the bar is now? It’s hard to believe that when you said One Piece was dropped mainly for low ratings and it rarely dropped below that at 2:30am. Is it really okay?

Believe it or not, that’s about double our competition at that time. And we only need to do better than our competition. As far as One Piece, keep in mind that it wasn’t just the ratings- it was the cost. One Piece is a massive hit in Japan and it doesn’t come cheap. 
Beyond that, as I’ve said like 1000 times, let US worry about ratings! Trust me, we are fine.

https://ask.fm/Clarknova/answers/148696080361?utm_source=tw_share_own_ar&shareBy=Clarknova#_=_

Welp

[mochi]

15 minutes ago, Lawliet720 said:

https://ask.fm/Clarknova/answers/148696080361?utm_source=tw_share_own_ar&shareBy=Clarknova#_=_

Welp

Toei has a history of Charging unreasonable and absurd prices for their series (like charging full price for an entire anime series for every single SEASON of Sailor moon), so it doesn't surprise me that price was a factor in OP getting kicked

 

Toei can basically only blame themselves

[CatSoul]

One Piece being expensive is on Toei. 

"B-but it's a hit with people of all ages!" Not here it ain't.

 

[Jman]

I’ve said it before, but One Piece will never be relevant here unless by some miracle that live action show sees the light of day and is a successs.  And the only way THAT works is if Oda somehows sells it to HBO...and let’s them go FULL HBO.

Sailor Moon being on Hulu probably meant lower prices for online distribution.  And DBZ...is DBZ.

[PokeNirvash]

I'm pretty sure plenty of us already knew One Piece's cost likely had something to do with it.

[QueenoftheDorks]

48 minutes ago, Jman said:

I’ve said it before, but One Piece will never be relevant here unless by some miracle that live action show sees the light of day and is a successs.  And the only way THAT works is if Oda somehows sells it to HBO...and let’s them go FULL HBO.

Sailor Moon being on Hulu probably meant lower prices for online distribution.  And DBZ...is DBZ.

Why would One Piece have to be on HBO? Unless you mean budget because there's literally nothing in One Piece that would be censored on primetime basic cable. And Game of Thrones is sacrificing episodes to sped more per episode so they'd have to completely change the story or it would take literally a decade for them to even anywhere.

[Jman]

If the LA One Piece has the same tone as the animated One Piece, it will flop just as hard here as that did.

And Moose will rage against us dirty Americans for not respecting the word of Oda.

[mochi]

21 minutes ago, Jman said:

If the LA One Piece has the same tone as the animated One Piece, it will flop just as hard here as that did.

And Moose will rage against us dirty Americans for not respecting the word of Oda.

I assume Oda knows that slapsick hannah barbera gags don't work in live action the same way they do in animation...outside of parody

and that the LA OP will have a less cartoonish tone.......but you never know

[Jman]

3 hours ago, mochi said:

I assume Oda knows that slapsick hannah barbera gags don't work in live action the same way they do in animation...outside of parody

and that the LA OP will have a less cartoonish tone.......but you never know

Oda seems like the guy who is VERY protective of his artistic vision.  That and he has refusal rights on LA One Piece.  If HBO writes Luffy having sex with random broads as part of his natural appetites, Oda can tell them to piss up a rope until they make something more accurate to the manga.  And that WILL flop.

[mochi]

1 minute ago, Jman said:

Oda seems like the guy who is VERY protective of his artistic vision.  That and he has refusal rights on LA One Piece.  If HBO writes Luffy having sex with random broads as part of his natural appetites, Oda can tell them to piss up a rope until they make something more accurate to the manga.  And that WILL flop.

yeah it's unlikely he's gonna let them turn Luffy into some kind of Manwhore but again, we don't fully know what Oda is and isn't being allowed to add to One piece by his publishers

he recently confirmed that one of the characters had sex with another character and he apparently said he wanted to reveal it earlier but his Publishers felt that it was too inappropriate

[Top Gun]

4 hours ago, Jman said:

If the LA One Piece has the same tone as the animated One Piece, it will flop just as hard here as that did.

And Moose will rage against us dirty Americans for not respecting the word of Oda.

A US company dubbing and releasing on home video well over 500 episodes of a series and multiple movies while continuing to simulcast current episodes = flop.  You heard it here folks.

Seriously man, the knuckle-dragging hateboner act got old almost a decade ago.  Find a new shtick.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Top Gun

[Jman]

1 minute ago, Top Gun said:

A US company dubbing and releasing on home video well over 500 episodes of a series and multiple movies while continuing to simulcast current episodes = flop.  You heard it here folks.

Seriously man, the knuckle-dragging hateboner act got old almost a decade ago.  Find a new shtick.

You know what I mean.  Television airings.

One Piece is like Asterix, where it’s popular everywhere but the US (and it’s total sales apparently are set to, if they haven’t already, pass Batman’s total comics sold ever) but that doesn’t mean a faithful LA version I’ll work.

[Top Gun]

Being on television for 5 years straight also = flop.

OP has achieved a pretty ridiculous sustained level of success in the US.  Again, FUNi has been dubbing the series for more than a decade.  They don't do that for shit that doesn't sell.  (Ask Toriko.)  Back when people actually gave a damn about Hulu, it was consistently in the top tier of streaming rankings across its entire catalog.  It's right at the top on Crunchyroll's popularitly listing.  People watch it here.

Like I don't give a shit whether you like the series or not.  But stop fucking lying about it.  It makes you look like a tool.

[Jman]

...Are you OK?

I’m pointing out that the show never became truly mainstream here and that the LA show is likely to flop, if it ever sees air.  Just...calm down, I’m not insulting the fans, well, besides Moose anyway.

[Top Gun]

I'm pretty chill last time I checked.

If you want to make the argument that OP isn't mainstream, then yes, obviously.  But there are...what...all of 4 or 5 anime series that have ever hit that target in the US?  Maybe 9 or 10 if you're generous?  A show that does very well for your average anime release yet doesn't hit those rarefied heights doesn't constitute a "failure."  Like, it's an incredibly silly false dichotomy.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Top Gun

[Jman]

Yeah, I can agree with that.

 It’s this LA show that fascinates me because of what it could mean if it is successful, and how many ways it could go wrong.

[PokeNirvash]

At this point, I'd chalk up Jman's claims that "OP is a flop in the States" to hyperbole. Sure, it has a modicum of popularity here, between FUNi dubbing it for a decade straight and four years on Toonami before the costs outweighed the benefits too much for Demarco's liking. It's just never gonna be the long-lasting juggernaut that it is in Japan, and certainly not the universally loved critical darling Moose was praying to every heavenly body of worship in the book it would be.

[Daos]

Funimation has been dubbing Fairytail for almost 10 years now. 

The issue with OP was that it was the least popular of the big 3 in the US. I don't think I've ever met a person IRL that actually watched it, yet I've met people that actually like and watch Black Clover.

[QueenoftheDorks]

The problem with One Piece in the US is that it never got the chance to be as popular here as Naruto or Bleach because of 4Kids. That was the window where it could have come in and been more successful had it launched on Toonami or even Disney XD. Launching it on 4KidsTV set it back hard. Add into the fact that multiple arcs were skipped between the end of 4Kids and the beginning of Toonami's run. It just never got launched properly the way that Bleach and Naruto did.

[Top Gun]

I think OP probably has a bit less natural widespread appeal than either Naruto or Bleach.  Naruto benefits from starting out with its protagonist at a closer age to its target audience, and it plays the "ninjas are cool!" trope pretty straight from the get-go.  Bleach has a darker/"edgier" aesthetic that it wears on its sleeve from the first episode.  OP's artstyle is admittedly an acquired taste for a lot of people (it took me some time to come around myself), and its first few arcs are relatively lighthearted; I think Arlong Park is the first moment you see Oda really nail that perfect mix of pathos and triumph that he's honed to a razor's edge since.  All of that being said, I agree with Queen that OP was massively hamstrung right from the get-go with how and where it was launched.  Naruto and Bleach received top-notch dubs, while OP was saddled with...that.  In a world where it premiered on Toonami with FUNi's dub from the very beginning?  I think it would have had more than a decent shot to go fairly mainstream.

[QueenoftheDorks]

I think had it launched properly that the art style wouldn't have been that much of a sticking point. I mean look at the wide vareity of animation/character design that is on Cartoon Network. It would have been an odd ball among anime, but would have meshed well with Western animation.

[DBZ4ever]

I had long guessed that ratings were only a small part of why it was let go. I figured cost was a big part of it.

[ben0119]

On 7/18/2018 at 9:52 AM, PokeNirvash said:

I'm pretty sure plenty of us already knew One Piece's cost likely had something to do with it.

Yup.

On 7/18/2018 at 8:35 AM, mochi said:

Toei has a history of Charging unreasonable and absurd prices for their series (like charging full price for an entire anime series for every single SEASON of Sailor moon), so it doesn't surprise me that price was a factor in OP getting kicked

 

Toei can basically only blame themselves

Yet Demarco and Gill would make multiple trips to Japan to negotiate with Sunrise directly to end the Gundam embargo in the U.S., and taking a shitty deal that most likely required them to get multiple shows and/or a UC show, in this case, the horrible Unicorn.

On 7/18/2018 at 6:01 PM, Daos said:

Funimation has been dubbing Fairytail for almost 10 years now. 

The issue with OP was that it was the least popular of the big 3 in the US. I don't think I've ever met a person IRL that actually watched it, yet I've met people that actually like and watch Black Clover.

Black Clover is more popular than One Piece.  The thought of that must be making the One Piece connoisseurs go into convulsions and Moose go Tsar Bomba nuclear.  

Edited July 22, 2018 by ben0119

[ben0119]

On 7/18/2018 at 3:21 PM, Top Gun said:

A US company dubbing and releasing on home video well over 500 episodes of a series and multiple movies while continuing to simulcast current episodes = flop.  You heard it here folks.

Seriously man, the knuckle-dragging hateboner act got old almost a decade ago.  Find a new shtick.

Are you sure it's been a decade?

On 7/18/2018 at 3:36 PM, Top Gun said:

Being on television for 5 years straight also = flop.

OP has achieved a pretty ridiculous sustained level of success in the US.  Again, FUNi has been dubbing the series for more than a decade.  They don't do that for shit that doesn't sell.  (Ask Toriko.)  Back when people actually gave a damn about Hulu, it was consistently in the top tier of streaming rankings across its entire catalog.  It's right at the top on Crunchyroll's popularitly listing.  People watch it here.

Like I don't give a shit whether you like the series or not.  But stop fucking lying about it.  It makes you look like a tool.

People don't give a shit about Hulu anymore?

Maybe they do it out of pity and because they like the show, like Toonami doing all they could to prolong One Piece's presence on the block.  Funimation has said that DBZ basically pays for them to dub the niche series they don't make money on.

Or Detective Conan.  By the way, when I found out that show goes on for hundreds of episodes, so basically it takes eons for Conan to ever find out who turned him into a kid... lolno.  When ASA aired it, there was nothing about that show that made me think it needed to go on that long.  Imagine if Gilligan's Island went on for a 1000 episodes with them never getting off the island...

[Top Gun]

3 hours ago, ben0119 said:

.Black Clover is more popular than One Piece. 

In what alternate universe?

2 hours ago, ben0119 said:

Are you sure it's been a decade?

People don't give a shit about Hulu anymore?

Maybe they do it out of pity and because they like the show, like Toonami doing all they could to prolong One Piece's presence on the block.  Funimation has said that DBZ basically pays for them to dub the niche series they don't make money on.

Or Detective Conan.  By the way, when I found out that show goes on for hundreds of episodes, so basically it takes eons for Conan to ever find out who turned him into a kid... lolno.  When ASA aired it, there was nothing about that show that made me think it needed to go on that long.  Imagine if Gilligan's Island went on for a 1000 episodes with them never getting off the island...

FUNi acquired the license to OP in 2007 and started dubbing with the Jaya/Skypiea arcs to carry on with the then-current Toonami broadcast.  They went back and started dubbing from the beginning of the series within a year or two.  And no, companies don't dub and release several hundred episodes of a series "out of pity."  The series has consistently been one of FUNi's top sellers.

[ben0119]

3 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

In what alternate universe?

FUNi acquired the license to OP in 2007 and started dubbing with the Jaya/Skypiea arcs to carry on with the then-current Toonami broadcast.  They went back and started dubbing from the beginning of the series within a year or two.  And no, companies don't dub and release several hundred episodes of a series "out of pity."  The series has consistently been one of FUNi's top sellers.

You heard what Daos said.

Well you know I was just fucking with you.

[Top Gun]

Wow.  He knows a guy.  Fantastic.

[Jman]

On 7/18/2018 at 7:01 PM, Daos said:

Funimation has been dubbing Fairytail for almost 10 years now. 

The issue with OP was that it was the least popular of the big 3 in the US. I don't think I've ever met a person IRL that actually watched it, yet I've met people that actually like and watch Black Clover.

I've met people who have read the manga, but that was years ago. 

[Daos]

10 hours ago, Top Gun said:

Wow.  He knows a guy.  Fantastic.

Pretty sure that guy speaks for all of humanity. It's all about the Clover.

 

[CorbeauKarasu]

On 7/18/2018 at 9:17 AM, CatSoul said:

One Piece being expensive is on Toei. 

"B-but it's a hit with people of all ages!" Not here it ain't.

 

it would have been if itd gotten a proper launch, like Naruto did. if it hadn't gone to 4Kids, it would have launched around the same time as Naruto and the two of them would have blown the market up together.

[Daos]

3 hours ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

it would have been if itd gotten a proper launch, like Naruto did. if it hadn't gone to 4Kids, it would have launched around the same time as Naruto and the two of them would have blown the market up together.

Even if it had a solid launch with a good dub, the art style is probably what doomed it to being a third wheel in the west. I'd see the 4kids dub while I was flicking channels back in the day and I just never had any desire to watch a show that looked that bad. According to most people, the show doesn't even really get going until about 50 episodes in. That'll work in Japan but not here.

[QueenoftheDorks]

The artstyle is only a problem for weeboos who think anime should look a certain way. Literally no one else cares. Look at any show that has ever been on Cartoon Network. We have been seeing different art styles in animation for decades. 

[The1gairon]

My argument is, if it looks like a Western cartoon, which in many ways it does, why would anyone hate One Piece but not Looney Tunes? Maybe they're more talking about how it moves, which is very poorly.

[Daos]

29 minutes ago, QueenoftheDorks said:

The artstyle is only a problem for weeboos who think anime should look a certain way. Literally no one else cares. Look at any show that has ever been on Cartoon Network. We have been seeing different art styles in animation for decades. 

Then apparently the west has a lot of weeboo's because it never became as popular as Bleach or Naruto, which just happened to be much prettier to look at than One Piece.

[QueenoftheDorks]

59 minutes ago, Daos said:

Then apparently the west has a lot of weeboo's because it never became as popular as Bleach or Naruto, which just happened to be much prettier to look at than One Piece.

Like I said, it didn't get the launch that Bleach or Naruto got either. So yeah all it has is anime fans, most of which are fucking weeboos who think anime has to look a certain way. You keep coming back to the art and animation being something that would limit it here when western animation has a history of widely different art and animation in pretty much every show. If ugly character designs kept people from watching things then The Simpsons wouldn't be in it's 30th season and Rick and Morty wouldn't be one of the most popular shows on right now. But keep coming back to "oh but it's ugly!" as a reason it wouldn't succeed in America.

I mean if being pretty is the number one thing it needs to succeed then why is anime such a niche market in America? By that logic it should be the only animation we have.

[Daos]

Sadly, most Americans probably can't follow anime plot lines or just find it too weird.

See here's the thing... the Simpsons and Rick and Morty may not have the most beautiful art ever..... but it's not visually repelling either. You can blame OP not being successful on a bad launch but I'm pretty sure there's a few other factors as well. If OP looked like Pokemon it probably would have been at least a moderate hit.

[QueenoftheDorks]

How does One Piece look bad outside of you don't like the character design? The animation is on par with or better in some cases than Pierrot's work on Bleach.

It's almost like you're using that as a crutch to transform you disliking it into everyone who dislikes it, dislikes it for that reason alone. 

Also the hell? Rick and Morty is purposely visually repelling most of the time. It's part of it's charm.

[rpgamer]

If we're going down the list, I'd add the name as a contributing factor to it flopping. Would it be unreasonable to say that most of the anime targeted at kids, at least back in the day, had names that were easily related to some element of the show? I submit that "One Piece" simply failed to really cement what the show was in the minds of the audience.

But I also admit that I'm also biased against the show. Anyway, this is all hindsight talking, and there's no real way to know if this was changed or that, it might've gotten more attention or not. Believing it totally could've gotten a bigger following if it was handled better is just as biased on the other end. As someone that never really cared for it, looking back, I can't imagine a better dub changing my opinion. What [as] aired wasn't much different to what we started with however long ago.

[Daos]

9 hours ago, QueenoftheDorks said:

How does One Piece look bad outside of you don't like the character design? The animation is on par with or better in some cases than Pierrot's work on Bleach.

It's almost like you're using that as a crutch to transform you disliking it into everyone who dislikes it, dislikes it for that reason alone. 

Also the hell? Rick and Morty is purposely visually repelling most of the time. It's part of it's charm.

How does it look bad? By looking bad to me personally. I'm assuming I'm not the only one that felt this way. The characters and style just visually repelled me. I'm pretty sure I would have at least given OP a chance back in the day if this wasn't the case. Are you really trying to argue that the shows appearance wasn't a decent sized factor in it not being as big as the rest of the big 3?

Pierrot is a horrible studio, I"m not sure occasionally doing better than them is high praise. Also

 

 

[J.M. Matthews]

Is there a One Piece live action in development. This is new to me...Care to elaborate?

[Jman]

19 minutes ago, J.M. Matthews said:

Is there a One Piece live action in development. This is new to me...Care to elaborate?

Sure.

http://comicbook.com/anime/2018/07/23/one-piece-live-action-anime-writer-update/

As part of an anniversary celebration/final attempt to make OP as big in the US as it is in Japan, Toei, in conjunction with ITV and the producer of Prison Break, is making a live action adaptation of One Piece they boast will be one of the most expensive shows ever.  Three days ago they apparently hired a writer.

If that wasn’t enough, Oda himself has veto power on the series, which pretty much dooms it.

[CorbeauKarasu]

the only problem with one piece's art in the beginning was that luffy's mouth was freakishly cavernous when he yelled. it used to freak me out, but i got over it quickly and it became one of my favorite series. all the other characters looked fine, Zoro and Nami especially. if t been hamstrung by censorship, if the show had premiered on cartoon network instead of the fox box, it would be a show that is spoken of in the same breath as Naruto in america. the pairing would have been one piece and naruto, not naruto and bleach. it wasn't initially as edgy as the others, but it was a lot of fun from the get-go. even a in initially lackluster reception with a proper dub and stage would have been better than what we got.

though, ironically sometimes I think FUNimaion's One Piece dub wouldn't be as stellar as it is now if they didn't feel the intense need to make up for how One Piece was treated by 4 kids.

[ben0119]

Not sure how much of an excuse we can make with the 4Kids dub.  I took to the show at the time even in spite of that dub.  It didn't bother me.  The issue is the art style and the overall kiddy nature the show gives off.  Anime fans prefer shows that look like anime.  Many of the fans that would've just joined "anime master race" back then would look down on One Piece as being too much like the kiddy western cartoons they used to watch when they were younger.  Other shows had 4Kids dubs and still took off, like Pokemon and Yugioh.  I certainly don't think we would be talking about One Piece and Naruto rather than Naruto and Bleach, as in One Piece being the most popular over both of them.  There's also the fact that the characters don't really look like pirates.

[The1gairon]

This is what bugs me about viewers.  No one can let go of a grudge, every horrible horrible decision a studio/network will never be let down and everyone should be held accountable by practicing their right to not watch/buy.  4Kids is done. It's BEEN done for years. Hell, Funimation's dub even briefly ran in the OG Toonami!  Let it go.

[Jman]

1 hour ago, elfie said:

This is what bugs me about viewers.  No one can let go of a grudge, every horrible horrible decision a studio/network will never be let down and everyone should be held accountable by practicing their right to not watch/buy.  4Kids is done. It's BEEN done for years. Hell, Funimation's dub even briefly ran in the OG Toonami!  Let it go.

Never!  One Piece in America will forever be associated with “Yo Yo he took a bite of the Gum Gum” unless this live action thing surprises the hell out of all of us.

[Top Gun]

11 minutes ago, Jman said:

Never!  One Piece in America will forever be associated with “Yo Yo he took a bite of the Gum Gum” unless this live action thing surprises the hell out of all of us.

It's been more than a decade.  The only people who are more than vaguely aware of that dub are old-school Toonami farts.

[Jman]

11 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

It's been more than a decade.  The only people who are more than vaguely aware of that dub are old-school Toonami farts.

Every Fourth of July someone posts that one awful 4Kids video of dub Luffy singing the national anthem.  We will never forget...and never forgive.

(I’m joking.  It’s been over a decade though.  Wow.)

[PokeNirvash]

I've never seen that video, but I hear it's hilariously bad except for Master Splinter's portion.

[Top Gun]

I mean I'll give you that the theme song has probably found its way into the general anime fan consciousness, but how many anime viewers today do you think have actually sat down and watched so much as a few minutes of the 4Kids dub?

[ben0119]

On 7/30/2018 at 5:47 PM, Top Gun said:

I mean I'll give you that the theme song has probably found its way into the general anime fan consciousness, but how many anime viewers today do you think have actually sat down and watched so much as a few minutes of the 4Kids dub?

And yet fanboys will continue to run to it years after the fact to excuse One Piece's underperformance in the U.S.