NewBluntsworth

There's a light on in the attic and I know what it's about

Yeah, there's no reason to even try to save for "retirement" if you're a low wage worker. Not that it's even fucking possible since you're going to need that money for ten million different things long before getting old, and by that point you won't be able to afford to stop working anyway. Only socialism can save us.

Yeah but that bet is about something that can't happen before 2023 at the earliest, this will pay out next month. I mean I'm not trying to take all your money but if you're offering...

I'll take that bet!

Looks like you missed some @Quakers

Again you guys are only describing yourselves

"Russia invaded Ukraine! RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE! Nothing else matters other than that! No context about why they did so can challenge America's right to drag the entire region into another world war over it! Just because the US routinely & illegally invades, occupies, & nnexes territory in other countries, orchestrating coups and deposing heads of state, killing en masse and doing war crimes with impunity, arming radical far right-wing insurrectionary groups all over the world sowing chaos and forever-war, doesn't mean Russia should get away with doing any single thing that resembles our own country's regular daily foreign policy in order to defend itself from the ever-encroaching threat of our evil super-empire! At least not without America's firepower and military might having a whole shitload of say in the matter, only incidentally reinforcing its own global hegemony in the process! Putin is the new Hitler!!1!11!!" That about sums up all I've seen from y'all, interspersed with wild swings at poorly constricted strawmen built from on-its-face ridiculous Russia propaganda that no one here believes. Not exactly 'discussing to hell and back,' but I don't think you guys are trolling I genuinely think it's just brainwash from living in the belly of the beast and being ignorant of perspectives outside of our country's corporate media that only ever toes the US State Dept line.

Beto has zero chance, may as well go ahead and chalk up yet another L for him right now. At least he'll be freed up to focus on running another failed Presidential campaign.

I'm not doubting this interpretation but I still don't get it. What does Elaine Chao have to do with Coco Chanel? Is it like a way of calling her rich...?

@Quakers Hope you have a "good one" !

Gaysex Capone

"Coco Chow?" I don't even get what he's going for there.

This is all you people have, dismissing anything that goes against the American empire's line as "Russian propaganda" and saying look at all these good Americans who agree with me in toeing the American empire's line on this, haha we must all be in agreement because we are so right and correct. There is very little daylight between you and Cringuy here, imperialist clown.

Nobody ITT has said it's a humanitarian mission??? Literally, nobody has suggested that. Quit attacking strawmen, it's very dishonest of you to repeatedly frame the discussion this way. Russia is threatened by Ukraine becoming a US proxy state. USA staged a coup to overthrow the elected govt in 2014. USA has been arming and training Nazi militias who have been integrated into the Ukrainian national military and have killed well over 10 thousand Ukrainian citizens who opposed the rightwing US-backed coup. Russia has valid security concerns about a NATO state on its border. Why won't anyone answer the simple question of -- how would USA respond to Russia doing 1% of this up against America's borders? America can do whatever it wants to protect itself from perceived existential threats, but not Russia? We get it, you are an imperialist. Just acknowledge that, you can't keep playing both sides of "well the US empire did instigate this Russian response, but now that it is happening Russia's response must be quashed by the American empire because it isn't allowed to have 1% of the security concerns that America has, isn't allowed to do anything to defend itself or its people from the ever-encroaching American empire which over the course of the last century has never stopped fucking with that country" Clown show imperialists go home.

"Mr. O'Rourke, do you support efforts to defund the police?" "Of course I don't, and no one does." The Democratic party is such a right wing 🤡 show.

https://archive.ph/WAb71 The US pushing for Ukraine to join NATO, to join most of the other old Soviet states in NATO, is what led to this awful war. The US orchestrating a literal actual coup in Ukraine is what led to this awful war. The US arming and training literal actual Nazi battalions to brutally fight the anti-coup, pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine for the last 8 years is what led to this awful war. The US still pushing for Ukraine to join NATO will only lead to more of this awful war. Again, the US would never tolerate Russia setting up shop on our border, but Russia isn't allowed any right to self-defense. Now we're supposed to believe that anyone seriously expects Russia to tolerate a US-armed NATO state on its border? Just more clamoring for war on the part of our evil empire. That is all this is. It's like they actually want this to go nuclear. Abolish NATO. Get the US military and its weapons and spooks the fuck out of Ukraine. Fuck off, America. Nobody wants this war except USA. We need peace NOW.

That first one actually looks maybe kinda cool but then WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED???

Lol, lmfao. Yeah sure, and nobody should ever harm IDF soldiers and Nazis and blackwater mercs and Saudi monarchist freaks and American forces either because "violence is never acceptable," hahahahaha

I believe @SwimModSponges was being sincere, I think that is truly a concern for him. It's definitely a concern for some people anyway and it's absolutely something I have considered and continue to think about myself, so I have no issue responding to it in good faith. You literally have "Republican political consultant" on your resume, as I see it there's only one clown in this room Cringuy.

Like just to be clear on this, if you're a capitalist -- just say that. If you are happy with capitalism and think it can be worked through and improved upon and saved from itself by "voting for better Democrats" and "holding them accountable" somehow and "pushing for ranked choice voting" so that we can tax billionaires a little more or w/e and everything will work itself out then just say that, that absolutely answers the question of why you wouldn't be interested in joining a socialist party. If that describes you then frankly you have zero business there, so just go on and feel free to enjoy your life of voting for Clinton's and Biden's and posting on the internet about how you wish they were "further left." These are not the people who I am interested in hearing from.

Really unclear on this. What left orgs do you see "fighting against each other," idr know what you mean by that. The left is small and we have zero power but we're not fighting each other? Like what do you mean. Are you talking about like people who vote third party vs Democrats vs people who say voting is dumb period and we need a leftist revolution...? Those are disagreements people on the left have among each other (plus tubby rich mansion-dwelling, economic status quo-preserving/social justice-focused Democrats mixed in) but "we" are not fighting each other, in any way that affects or reinforces our position of having zero leverage over the mechanisms of power. Like yeah I say voting for right wing Democratic party is bad and counter-productive because it is and I believe that, but that doesn't have any effect on conditions or questions like why Democrats aren't more left wing or why the left has no power. Those are all decided far above our heads. Yeah, there is no united front bc we don't have a viable left wing party in this country bc all anyone wants to do is vote for the right wing Democrats forever bc every single election is too important to ever vote for a socialist "who won't win this time" Wtf are you talking about? Consensus on what? What leadership? What leaders? Whose egos are you even talking about here? Like I'm literally asking, be specific, name names or orgs/leadership titles, bc I'm just at a complete fucking loss as to who or what you're even referring to. "The socialist left" is literally less than 100,000 people if we're adding up and including all the members of all these little socialist orgs like CPUSA and FRSO and PSL and all the dues-paying do-nothing people in the DSA (Not saying everyone in DSA is this way but it's what I was when I was in the DSA and it's what most of their tens of thousands of dues paying members are, people who give them money but otherwise don't do anything) We're not in a place to be taken seriously bc there are so few of us. Hence this thread, I want to know why that is when our ideas are popular and yet almost everyone who I largely agree with politically wants nothing whatsoever to do with even considering joining a socialist org/ left wing third party for themselves and trying to see how far we can go using these vehicles. Nobody has any interest in that. You clearly don't, and are hostile to the idea of trying to add your time and energy and your thoughts and ideas and perspectives to the growth of these organizations that are literally all we as leftists have to work with right now. Why is that? It sounds like you're saying "I want these things I believe in to happen magically and just come into existence, but hmmmph they're not here, so I'm not going to do anything to try to bring about the change that I impotently post on the internet about wanting to see." Do you just totally not even think it's possible, is it cynicism and pessimism, or do you not really care that much bc you personally are comfortable and fine and feel your future is secure so fuck everybody else, do you just not care bc there's only so much time on earth and you want to spend yours on bread and circus and relaxing after work, or maybe bc you're so busy working and taking care of the people in your life that you don't know how you would find the time, or is it because you think the Democratic party is good enough and has the potential to deliver us *anything* so let's just roll with what we've got and hope to God all the evil and the neoliberalism shakes out of the Democratic party which is totally captured by capital because they're already on the ballot and trying to challenge that with anything else is too hard? Bc those are all answers and they are all valid and understandable. Obviously I think they're counter-productive to what we both claim to want and am happy to try to change your mind about any of them, but I'm not here to be judgemental about this right now, I'm genuinely just asking - why? Why not try to build what you claim to want to see? Because you know somebody has to, right? You clearly have ideas, why not share them in person with like minded people such as yourself who are trying to bring them into reality? WHO THE FUCK IS "WE" ?? I'm sorry but who is the we doing the pushing for this thing that the duopoly and all of our enemies are existentially opposed to? How are we pushing, what is the strategy, what are the tactics, what is the vehicle for making this happen? Is "we" left-leaning Democrats, what does "pushing for it" look like, posting about it on the fucking internet? Ranked choice voting is a very good and very cute and adorable idea but that's all it is and all it ever will be if none of us ever want to get off our asses and do any goddamn thing to remake this world in our image. So, I'm asking you -- why haven't you joined a socialist organization?