Putin: "Stick to the timeline!"

[tsar4]

[tsar4]

I'm not crying, you're crying...

 

[tsar4]

Bulky looking, but kinda cool...

 

[tsar4]

The last time I saw a look like this, the Obamas were at Mandela's funeral.

[SwimModSponges]

https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-russian-software-disguised-american-finds-its-way-into-us-army-cdc-2022-11-14/

[Master-Debater131]

WHELP.

 

Thats fucking awesome.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Master-Debater131

[Master-Debater131]

Russia is already out saying that not only did they not shoot this missile, but that they did not launch any missile near the Polish border.

Thats completely false because we know already that Russia is targeting Ukrainian infrastructure very close to the border.

 

Its going to be very clear, very soon, that the missile came from Russia and Russia is trying to pretend that it isnt.

[Master-Debater131]

I flipped on the major networks to see if they were covering this. And wow, they suck so much more than I remember. Out of the big 3 only 1 is actually talking about this story.

CNN: Heres how horrible the GOP are! Their leadership hates you!

FOX: Heres how horrible Democrats are! They dont care about the border!

MSNBC: Heres this breaking news that has potentially massive significance in the world. Lets go to our experts on Poland, NATO, and foreign policy.

[matrixman124]

I believe the story now is that it was debris from a Russian rocket being intercepted by Ukraine 

[Master-Debater131]

Thats possible, but I have to wonder how debris from a missile made it into Poland unless it was right on Polish airspace to begin with.

 

NATO experts are going to be on scene soon, and they'll know quickly what happened.

[Master-Debater131]

People are saying this is the start of WWIII, but I dont see it.

Even if Poland triggers Article 5, I dont think you see a full blown response from NATO by attacking Russia. Instead I think what happens is you see a massive increase in AA weaponry to Ukraine, deployment of THAAD all across Eastern Europe(this alone is a huge thorn in Russias side and they will bitch and moan very loudly), and possibly "shoot down" orders for any missile flying within a specified distance of NATO borders.

Theres a whoooolllleeeee lot of options that we have that will make life very miserable for Russians that doesnt involve us shooting at them. Weve been giving Ukraine a lot of our spare weaponry that is pretty old. We can easily give them more advanced, and more modern, weaponry that will shred the Russian troops. Plus, we can give Ukraine higher-tier AA weaponry and long-range missiles that put a whole lot more or Russian troops into danger.

[Master-Debater131]

 

If this is true then I would say the odds of this being a misfire are pretty low. Russia has been targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure for days trying to create all sorts of humanitarian crisis

[SwimModSponges]

Huh.

[matrixman124]

34 minutes ago, Master-Debater131 said:

 

If this is true then I would say the odds of this being a misfire are pretty low. Russia has been targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure for days trying to create all sorts of humanitarian crisis

They were definitely targeting the grid between Poland and Ukraine. It's more likely they were aiming for the Ukraine side and hit the Poland side by accident.

[Master-Debater131]

1 hour ago, matrixman124 said:

They were definitely targeting the grid between Poland and Ukraine. It's more likely they were aiming for the Ukraine side and hit the Poland side by accident.

The more nefarious take is that they targeted that area on purpose.

 

Either way, its an attack on a NATO member so a whole lot of things are now in motion.

[Sieg67]

2 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

They were definitely targeting the grid between Poland and Ukraine. It's more likely they were aiming for the Ukraine side and hit the Poland side by accident.

I wouldn't be so sure.  It's possible that they saw Poland as an easier target. 

Ukraine is completely expecting missiles.  Poland,...maybe not as much.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Sieg67

[Master-Debater131]

NATO ambassadors will meet on Wednesday to discuss next steps. They are taking their time and doing the correct due diligence before any sort of official response or action.

[matrixman124]

Again, Poland is an actual NATO member and I don't see Russia as being that stupid to attack an actual NATO member on purpose.

We'll see what the investigation pulls up.

 

 

 

[tsar4]

6 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

WHELP.

 

Thats fucking awesome.

 

[tsar4]

5 hours ago, Master-Debater131 said:

I flipped on the major networks to see if they were covering this. And wow, they suck so much more than I remember. Out of the big 3 only 1 is actually talking about this story.

CNN: Heres how horrible the GOP are! Their leadership hates you!

FOX: Heres how horrible Democrats are! They dont care about the border!

MSNBC: Heres this breaking news that has potentially massive significance in the world. Lets go to our experts on Poland, NATO, and foreign policy.

I first found out through an ABCNews notification on my phone when the news initially broke, followed by BBC & CBC.

[tsar4]

4 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

They were definitely targeting the grid between Poland and Ukraine. It's more likely they were aiming for the Ukraine side and hit the Poland side by accident.

If this is truly the weapon in question, a 5 meter margin of error means that they were targeting Poland...maybe testing what NATO will do?

[matrixman124]

14 minutes ago, tsar4 said:

If this is truly the weapon in question, a 5 meter margin of error means that they were targeting Poland...maybe testing what NATO will do?

That still seems incredibly dumb especially since it caused fatalities. I think they were doing either a cluster bombardment on the border that strayed into Polish territory or the rocket was shot down and debris hit Poland. There is no way they did it on purpose. The last thing they want is a NATO peacekeeping force in Ukraine.

[tsar4]

3 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

There is no way they did it on purpose.

Plausible Deniability is one reason they could do it on purpose.  "We didn't mean too!"  

I'm not buying it.  Lavrov high-tailed it out of Bali before the news broke, "Well, he was done with what his job was" - Russian response.  Instead they're claiming it was Ukrainian missles.

[matrixman124]

Just now, tsar4 said:

Plausible Deniability is one reason they could do it on purpose.  "We didn't mean too!"  

I'm not buying it.  Lavrov high-tailed it out of Bali before the news broke, "Well, he was done with what his job was" - Russian response.  Instead they're claiming it was Ukrainian missles.

Yeah that is definitely bullshit that it was Ukraine missiles.

[Sieg67]

That's been their playbook since day one.  Just deny everything and outright lie.

[rpgamer]

So, basically two options, right? It was intentional, with Putin sitting smug daring them to take action, or at the very least testing the waters, and the limits of what he can get away with. And as was said, there's probably enough plausible deniability there, they may be hoping.

Or, could've genuinely been an accident one way or another, and they're shitting themselves over what the potential response is going to be.

 

After the timely retreat, does sorta raise an eyebrow at the convenient timing with regards to election shenanigans over here...

[NewBluntsworth]

Quote

WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland said early Wednesday that a Russian-made missile fell in the country’s east, killing two people, though U.S. President Joe Biden said it was “unlikely” it was fired from Russia.

The blast, which Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelenskyy decried as “a very significant escalation,” prompted Biden to call an emergency meeting of G-7 and NATO leaders. A deliberate, hostile attack on NATO member Poland could trigger a collective military response by the alliance.

But key questions around the circumstances of the missile launch remained amid the confusion caused by a blistering series of Russian airstrikes across the nearby border in Ukraine, none larger than who fired it. Russia denied any involvement in the Poland blast.

Three U.S. officials said preliminary assessments suggested the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian one amid the crushing salvo against Ukraine’s electrical infrastructure Tuesday. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

That assessment and Biden’s comments at the Group of 20 summit in Indonesia contradict information earlier Tuesday from a senior U.S. intelligence official who told the AP that Russian missiles crossed into Poland.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-zelenskyy-kherson-9202c032cf3a5c22761ee71b52ff9d52

Sounds like it was Ukraine that did it. Makes no sense for it to be Russia. 

 

5 hours ago, rpgamer said:

So, basically two options, right?

Third and likely option is Ukraine/CIA staging a false flag trying spark WW3 in earnest over their bullshit. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[ghostrek]

What this thing about missile hitting Poland  

holy fuck not good

[NewBluntsworth]

2 minutes ago, ghostrek said:

What this thing about missile hitting Poland  

holy fuck not good

It looks like it was Ukraine that did it, so don't worry ghostrek nothing will happen except some people will say "well this war is Russia's fault so anything Ukraine does during the course of it is Russia's fault too"

[ghostrek]

2 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

It looks like it was Ukraine that did it, so don't worry ghostrek nothing will happen except some people will say "well this war is Russia's fault so anything Ukraine does during the course of it is Russia's fault too"

yes thank god  we  dont need nuclear war

[tsar4]

8 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

Yeah that is definitely bullshit that it was Ukraine missiles.

Missiles that were shot by Ukraine at Russian Missiles targeting Ukrainian Infrastructure.  At least that is what Poland & US are saying.

[NewBluntsworth]

22 minutes ago, tsar4 said:

Missiles that were shot by Ukraine at Russian Missiles targeting Ukrainian Infrastructure.  At least that is what Poland & US are saying.

So, Ukraine sent the bombs that killed those people in Poland, got it. 

[ghostrek]

Just now, NewBluntsworth said:

So, Ukraine sent the bombs that killed those people in Poland, got it. 

no  Why Ukraine fire missile at someone that's supporting them by giving them weapons

[NewBluntsworth]

12 hours ago, Sieg67 said:

I wouldn't be so sure.  It's possible that they saw Poland as an easier target. 

Ukraine is completely expecting missiles.  Poland,...maybe not as much.

🤡

[NewBluntsworth]

6 minutes ago, ghostrek said:

no  Why Ukraine fire missile at someone that's supporting them by giving them weapons

I don't know ghostrek, but with the way the story initially came out - blaming Russia for the strike and sounding the alarm, it seems to me like an enemy of Russia tried to do something to make Russia look bad and they fucked it up, probably because Russia had evidence that it wasn't them whose missiles killed those people in Poland. 

https://archive.ph/9JqtD

Quote

Polish president says missile that killed two was probably Ukrainian air defence

 

WARSAW, Nov 16 (Reuters) - A missile that hit Poland killing two people was probably a Ukrainian air defence missile and there was no evidence to suggest the incident was an intentional attack by Russia, Poland's President Andrzej Duda said on Wednesday.

The announcement, which followed similar suggestions by the United States, was likely to ease global concern that the war in Ukraine could spill across the border.

"From the information that we and our allies have, it was an S-300 rocket made in the Soviet Union, an old rocket and there is no evidence that it was launched by the Russian side," Poland's Duda said. "It is highly probable that it was fired by Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense."

Polish Prime Minister Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said Warsaw might not need to activate Article 4 of the alliance's treaty, which calls for consultations when a country considers its security under threat.

Earlier, U.S. President Joe Biden said publicly that the missile was unlikely to have been fired from Russia. A NATO source said Biden had told allies that the missile was a Ukrainian air defence missile, and a Western diplomat confirmed that this was now the prevalent theory.

The Russian Defence Ministry said none of its missiles had struck closer than 35 km (20 miles) from the Polish border, and that photos of the wreckage in Poland showed elements of a Ukrainian S-300 air defence missile.

The Kremlin said on Wednesday that some countries had made "baseless statements" about the incident, but that Washington had been comparatively restrained. Spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters that Russia had nothing to do with the incident, which he said had been caused by an S-300 air defence system.

In a tweet issued hours after the incident, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy blamed it on "Russian missile terror". There was no immediate Ukrainian response on Wednesday to the reports that Washington now suspected it was in fact a stray Ukrainian missile.

 

 

 

[matrixman124]

5 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

I don't know ghostrek, but with the way the story initially came out - blaming Russia for the strike and sounding the alarm, it seems to me like an enemy of Russia tried to do something to make Russia look bad and they fucked it up, probably because Russia had evidence that it wasn't them whose missiles killed those people in Poland. 

https://archive.ph/9JqtD

 

 

We have warhawks who want direct action with Russia. Simple as that. Even Poland is saying it was caused by a Ukrainian missile intercepting a Russian barrage.

[NewBluntsworth]

10 hours ago, tsar4 said:

If this is truly the weapon in question, a 5 meter margin of error means that they were targeting Poland...maybe testing what NATO will do?

Seriously, where did you even get this horseshit? I didn't post this yesterday because I didn't know if the missile in the pics was actually the one that hit Poland, but you propaganda clowns just post any old garbage in this thread the second it churns itself out of the anus ahead of you in the HumInt Centipede huh. 

 

 

[matrixman124]

Like I think Russia should be ousted out of Ukraine but we really need to be 100% sure before we jump to conclusions on Russia attacking NATO members because that is the shit that will cause World War 3 and we need to be super sure about that.

Ukraine attacking a NATO member as a false flag to blame Russia is equally insane and we need to know the facts for that.

A Ukrainian defensive missile hit a Russian offensive missile and the resulting debris hit Poland. That's it. It was not an intentional attack on Poland by either side.

Edited November 16, 2022 by matrixman124

[NewBluntsworth]

8 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

A Ukrainian defensive missile hit a Russian offensive missile and the resulting debris hit Poland. That's it. It was not an intentional attack on Poland by either side.

Where are you getting this? As far as I can tell so far, Russia was bombing Ukraine elsewhere and Ukraine launched a stray missile into Poland "by accident" and then immediately blamed Russia, seems to be the story. 

[matrixman124]

2 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Where are you getting this? As far as I can tell so far, Russia was bombing Ukraine elsewhere and Ukraine launched a stray missile into Poland "by accident" and then immediately blamed Russia, seems to be the story. 

From a NYT article today

[NewBluntsworth]

12 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

From a NYT article today

None of that mentions debris from a Ukrainian missile colliding with a Russian missile. I read it as Ukraine crying don't get mad at us for launching our missile all the way into Poland and killing Polish people, it was a mistake while we were under bombardment and were shooting back at Russia in the heat of battle. 

Basically, "we were aiming for Russian missiles and missed and hit Poland instead. As you can see, this is clearly Russia's fault"

Edited November 16, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[matrixman124]

23 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

None of that mentions debris from a Ukrainian missile colliding with a Russian missile. I read it as Ukraine crying don't get mad at us for launching our missile all the way into Poland and killing Polish people, it was a mistake while we were under bombardment and were shooting back at Russia in the heat of battle. 

Basically, "we were aiming for Russian missiles and missed and hit Poland instead. As you can see, this is clearly Russia's fault"

I mean even in that scenario, Poland was not attacked intentionally. Ukraine was shooting down rockets and one went astray and hit Poland. Nobody hit Poland on purpose either way.

Note: I realize that I did misinterpret the article and this does seem to be what happened.

Okay so as long as the official reports follow this, we can say that it was NOT a false flag by Ukraine and NOT Russia testing the waters with NATO. It was an accident while Ukraine was defending itself. And it wouldn't have happened if Russia wasn't bombarding them in the first place

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by matrixman124

[NewBluntsworth]

45 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

I mean even in that scenario, Poland was not attacked intentionally. Ukraine was shooting down rockets and one went astray and hit Poland. Nobody hit Poland on purpose either way.

Yesterday Zelensky met with our CIA director, in Ukraine. Thousands of CIA and special forces have been operating for most of the year in Ukraine, which is rapidly deteriorating into a warzone hellhole with no water and no electricity as winter approaches. Then, Ukraine launched a missile into Poland while being bombed by Russia elsewhere, and immediately and forcefully blamed Russia for the attack in Poland and publicly called it a grave intentional escalation and everything else. How did Ukraine bomb a whole different country, killing random Polish people, by accident? Ukraine government constantly lies, we can't trust their word on this. 

[Master-Debater131]

 

So it does look like it was a Ukrainian rocket. But the NATO Secretary General is correct, Ukraine wouldnt have fired it if it wasnt for Russia. 

I think youll see Article 4 exercised and potentially some movement of NATO troops. This does probably reduce the odds of THAAD deployment or "shoot down" orders of Russian missiles. But our unwavering support of Ukraine must continue.

[matrixman124]

1 hour ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Yesterday Zelensky met with our CIA director, in Ukraine. Thousands of CIA and special forces have been operating for most of the year in Ukraine, which is rapidly deteriorating into a warzone hellhole with no water and no electricity as winter approaches. Then, Ukraine launched a missile into Poland while being bombed by Russia elsewhere, and immediately and forcefully blamed Russia for the attack in Poland and publicly called it a grave intentional escalation and everything else. How did Ukraine bomb a whole different country, killing random Polish people, by accident? Ukraine government constantly lies, we can't trust their word on this. 

I mean Russia was bombarding that area. It doesn't make sense of there being a false flag if the evidence clearly shows that it was a Ukrainian missile. That's just conspiracy theory nonsense.

[SwimModSponges]

I bet it was Biden who personally launched the missile.

[PenguinBoss]

1 hour ago, SwimModSponges said:

I bet it was Biden who personally launched the missile.

Bet he spent Nabs' $1400 to do it, too.

[matrixman124]

1 hour ago, PenguinBoss said:

Bet he spent Nabs' $1400 to do it, too.

That sonuvabitch

[Sieg67]

9 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

I mean Russia was bombarding that area. It doesn't make sense of there being a false flag if the evidence clearly shows that it was a Ukrainian missile. That's just conspiracy theory nonsense.

Nabs is really trying to use this to absolve Russia from any wrongdoing.

Here's what happened.  It was suspected it was Russia's missile until we got more information.  Nabs needs to stop acting like it's some big hoo-ha conspiracy.
Everything else that needed to be said has been said.  At least for now.

Edit: Fixed a word.
 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Sieg67

[tsar4]

12 hours ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Seriously, where did you even get this horseshit? I didn't post this yesterday because I didn't know if the missile in the pics was actually the one that hit Poland, but you propaganda clowns just post any old garbage in this thread the second it churns itself out of the anus ahead of you in the HumInt Centipede huh. 

 

 

You did notice that I said "If it was truly the weapon in question...", oh wait, it's you - of course you ignored it.