Theory - Dragonball Evolution left a scar on anime fans that would be like if the only superhero movie was Batman & Robin

[Jman]

Bat nipples vs teen loser Goku.  Am I wrong?

[Top Gun]

I genuinely believe that you're the only person on the planet who gives more than a moment's thought to that movie's very existence. Like, how many newer anime fans even know it was a thing?

[EmpressAngel]

Counter-theory: The knee-jerk live action haters are a flock of insufferable crybabies that will jump at basically any excuse to complain about their precious cartoons being sullied.

[Daos]

Whoa now cowboy, Batman and Robin isn't very good, but it wasn't anywhere near Evolution level bad. I can't even think of another movie where the director admits that he took it as a cash grab and submitted a formal apology to the world for how awful it was.

[Jman]

7 hours ago, Top Gun said:

I genuinely believe that you're the only person on the planet who gives more than a moment's thought to that movie's very existence. Like, how many newer anime fans even know it was a thing?

Considering every time someone so much as mentions one of these live action adaptations and dares change a fabric of clothing, the film gets mentioned, a few.  

[Jman]

4 hours ago, Daos said:

Whoa now cowboy, Batman and Robin isn't very good, but it wasn't anywhere near Evolution level bad. I can't even think of another movie where the director admits that he took it as a cash grab and submitted a formal apology to the world for how awful it was.

Schumacher did the same actually.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/entertainment/joel-schumacher-batman-robin/index.html

[The1gairon]

9 hours ago, Top Gun said:

I genuinely believe that you're the only person on the planet who gives more than a moment's thought to that movie's very existence. Like, how many newer anime fans even know it was a thing?

He's probably in love with it.

[Jman]

24 minutes ago, elfie said:

He's probably in love with it.

It’s just that there are so many shitty superhero films and no one flipped their shit when Spider-Man got a movie.  I remember, I saw it opening night in middle school.  I still remember everyone laughing out loud when JK Simmons first appeared as Jameson.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Jman

[Daos]

3 hours ago, Jman said:

Schumacher did the same actually.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/entertainment/joel-schumacher-batman-robin/index.html

Sounds like it was just a "sorry you guys didn't like it apology." It's a bad, campy film but much better than Evolution. At least the Batman movie was actually batman related, the DBZ movie was just some other movie they called DBZ and slapped some character names on.

[The1gairon]

4 hours ago, Jman said:

It’s just that there are so many shitty superhero films and no one flipped their shit when Spider-Man got a movie.  I remember, I saw it opening night in middle school.  I still remember everyone laughing out loud when JK Simmons first appeared as Jameson.

.... we know superheroes do not at all have a negative stigma like anime does over here.

[Top Gun]

7 hours ago, Jman said:

Considering every time someone so much as mentions one of these live action adaptations and dares change a fabric of clothing, the film gets mentioned, a few.  

To be frank, the only person I've seen bring it up when the topic arises on ANN is, well, you.

[PokeNirvash]

He only does it to remind the people who wish not to talk about it. Or maybe it's something else, either way that's how he is and it's best just to stop questioning it.

[Chapinator_X]

I think it’d be like if Batman & Robin came out before the Richard Donner Superman films or the Tim Burton Batman films, so every phenomenal superhero film afterwards would only be graded on how it’s a pleasant surprise compared to Batman & Robin.

Raimi’s Spider-Man 2, The Dark Knight, Iron Man 1, and Black Panther would go from being taken seriously as films to being surprisingly good for the same genre that gave us Batman & Robin. 

But because Dragonball Evolution came out way before anything memorable in a good way, most anime films that are excellent are only graded based on whether they are Dragonball Evolution or not. 

[ben0119]

On 9/4/2021 at 2:04 AM, Daos said:

Whoa now cowboy, Batman and Robin isn't very good, but it wasn't anywhere near Evolution level bad. I can't even think of another movie where the director admits that he took it as a cash grab and submitted a formal apology to the world for how awful it was.

Dragon Ball Evolution could have been a lot worse.  I was surprised it actually had people flying around and throwing fire balls, and they had a transforming vehicle just like Dragon Ball!  It was full on Dragon Ball and didn't dial things back.  The guy that played Yamcha was even just the right amount of douche!  Goku should not have been played by a white guy, though.

[ben0119]

On 9/4/2021 at 10:10 AM, Daos said:

Sounds like it was just a "sorry you guys didn't like it apology." It's a bad, campy film but much better than Evolution. At least the Batman movie was actually batman related, the DBZ movie was just some other movie they called DBZ and slapped some character names on.

It is kind of sad people think they are owed an apology just because they didn't like a movie though.  Yeah, Batman & Robin is terrible (Batman Forever was fucking awful too by the way,) and I thought Batman movies were basically done after the Schumacher schlock films came out, but it's far from the worst thing that's happened in my life.

[Daos]

33 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

Dragon Ball Evolution could have been a lot worse.  I was surprised it actually had people flying around and throwing fire balls, and they had a transforming vehicle just like Dragon Ball!  It was full on Dragon Ball and didn't dial things back.  The guy that played Yamcha was even just the right amount of douche!  Goku should not have been played by a white guy, though.

"The kamehameha is the most advanced of all the airbending techniques"

Actual line from the movie.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Daos

[ben0119]

8 minutes ago, Daos said:

"The kamehameha is the most advanced of all the airbending techniques"

Actual line from the movie.

Really? 

I must have forgotten a lot from that movie.  Or blocked it from my memory. 

[Daos]

3 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

Really? 

I must have forgotten a lot from that movie.  Or blocked it from my memory. 

Toriyama was so pissed about Evolution and felt it left such a stain on its legacy that he wrote Battle of Gods because he didn't want that to be the final Dragonball ever made.

So basically 3 movies and Super all exist because of that movie sucking. 

Oh and Toriyama offered to help with Evolution but no one involved would listen to anything he had to say.

[ben0119]

4 minutes ago, Daos said:

Toriyama was so pissed about Evolution and felt it left such a stain on its legacy that he wrote Battle of Gods because he didn't want that to be the final Dragonball ever made.

So basically 3 movies and Super all exist because of that movie sucking. 

Oh and Toriyama offered to help with Evolution but no one involved would listen to anything he had to say.

Oh, I had no idea about all that!

Super is kind of crappy at times, but it is nowhere near as bad as Evolution!

[CaptainStarwind]

15 hours ago, ben0119 said:

Oh, I had no idea about all that!

Super is kind of crappy at times, but it is nowhere near as bad as Evolution!

I'd be lying if I said I was a fan of Super (I still consider the series to end at DBZ), but it's MUCH better than Evolution.  Evolution really just seems like an anomaly to Dragon Ball at this point.  I honestly think most people forgot it existed, and it really only serves a purpose as an example of a terrible live action adaptation of anime.  No one is really turned off of watching Dragon Ball because of it.  It reminds of me of the Super Mario Bros. Movie in that way.

Batman and Robin, though, is wonderful in how campy it is.  I remember catching the movie during a New Years Eve marathon when I was little and thinking it was at least fun.  It's definitely one of those movies you can watch and just laugh at and have fun with.  I think it helps that there have been very good live action Batman movies made after it, so it's not like it was the final word on live action Batman.

[ben0119]

On 9/12/2021 at 7:19 PM, CaptainStarwind said:

I'd be lying if I said I was a fan of Super (I still consider the series to end at DBZ), but it's MUCH better than Evolution.  Evolution really just seems like an anomaly to Dragon Ball at this point.  I honestly think most people forgot it existed, and it really only serves a purpose as an example of a terrible live action adaptation of anime.  No one is really turned off of watching Dragon Ball because of it.  It reminds of me of the Super Mario Bros. Movie in that way.

Batman and Robin, though, is wonderful in how campy it is.  I remember catching the movie during a New Years Eve marathon when I was little and thinking it was at least fun.  It's definitely one of those movies you can watch and just laugh at and have fun with.  I think it helps that there have been very good live action Batman movies made after it, so it's not like it was the final word on live action Batman.

Yeah maybe it it is worse than I thought and that's why I don't remember how bad Evolution was.  And yes DBZ was the real ending.  Dragon Ball was a manga that ended, and DBZ adapted the latter portion and it ended, and that is that.  Super was a new anime made from scratch.  Even if Toriyama has more involvement in Super, he's either gone senile, forgotten, or retconned so much, it doesn't mean anything anyway.  Goku was NOT a guy who just cared about fighting strong guys and Toriyama is full of crap for saying that.  Goku cared about people and wasn't some special needs sociopath like they turned him into in Super.

I was pretty pissed off by Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.  Batman (1989) and Batman Returns were both excellent, but it was clear neither of these movies were carrying anything over.  New actors, new design style, not following up on past storyline, no Tim Burton. 

So not only was the good Batman not continuing, THIS over the top, campy, garish crap was what we got in its place.  And to top it all off both movies were just terrible!  I don't know.  Batman Forever and Batman & Robin must have been pretty bad since no live action Batman movie was made for like 8 years.  It honestly felt longer than that, and at the time, it felt like live action Batman was done.  But yeah, thank GOD for the Nolan films making up for that Schumacher schlock!