Will there be an Animegate?

[The1gairon]

1 hour ago, Jman said:

For the better I would argue.

Mostly because the resounding response is "who cares" so we naturally talk about another Thing.

[ben0119]

On 9/11/2018 at 7:00 PM, CaptainStarwind said:

Well, this thread...turned.  It was a fun read though

For what it's worth,

 

  Hide contents

I thought TLJ was passable when it came out, but my opinion of it has lessened since that time.  Not to the point that it'll dissuade me from seeing Episode IX, but definitely to the point that I dont consider the sequel trilogy canon.  What they did with Luke's character REALLY soured me on the movie (I truly don't believe Luke would have bared his lightsaber against a defenseless Kylo Ren, not even for a minute), but disregarding that, the plot seemed all over the place.  I also don't believe that, despite what the movie would have you believe, Poe was in the wrong for trying to start a mutiny, given that the commander was giving no indication whatsoever that she was going to do anything.  Was he just supposed to take Leia's word that she was trustworthy and knew what to do?  No, he definitely did the right thing there.  Kylo Ren's character development also sucked.  TFA showed him to be Darth Vader wannabe, for lack of a better term, but by the end of the movie he looked like he was going to come into his own as a villain.  TLJ pretty much jettisoned that and made him look barely competent by the end.  Am I really supposed to think of him as a villain when I can barely think of him as a threat?

 

So yeah, that's my thoughts about it.  If you have problems with them, that really sucks, because I don't give a shit.  This will be my first and only word on it.

Then you don't understand Luke's character.  He's acted impulsively and in anger before.   People often don't learn from mistakes just on the first try, and Luke is no different.  Poe was in the wrong for disobeying orders and getting an entire bomber squadron killed on a pointless, wasteful attack.  He's lucky he didn't get thrown in the brig.  Do you know anything about the military or know anyone who serves ?  Commanding officers don't have to tell their subordinates anything, especially when secrecy is of concern.  Holdo likely feared a bug in the Resistance.  And... Poe's blabber mouth did end up getting a bunch of people killed.  So she was right to keep info close to the vest.  Holdo isn't completely in the right, either, for how she handled things.  It's not black and white.  Lots of people fucked up in this movie.  Seems like you don't understand character and plot progression.  TLJ followed up things perfectly.  Not sure how you think Kylo shouldn't be coming into his own as a villain.  Did you see how Snoke treated him?  It was established he was being used and abused by Snoke this whole time.  He got rid of the helmet after the insults and realizing craving for the past wasn't going to get him anywhere.  Now he gets to be what Vader never was.  His own Emperor.  Kylo's development is great.  You've been smoking too many corals.  Sequel trilogy isn't canon.  Lol.  Don't watch it then.  Go watch Eureka AO.

Edited September 30, 2018 by ben0119

[ben0119]

On 9/11/2018 at 8:07 PM, Daos said:

Yes, Mark Hamil was lying when he said he liked it. That's what you do when you're promoting a movie. The stars of the last Fantastic 4 movie had to go out and tell us all how wonderful it was even though they probably knew it was awful. It's normal. I'm only amazed they didn't talk to him about his behavior earlier, he was trashing it for months.

Uh Ben in that video it looks like Grevious goes into hyperspace. The ship that crashes into the planet... clearly not in hyperspace.

Visual Encyclopedia 

This is what happens when you have no idea what you're doing. Did he leave a map? Did he not leave a map? Sounds like they tried to retcon it after the Last Jedi because Luke was all "nahhhh I'm just here to die."

Star Wars had SOME sparse comedy, it wasn't this jokey jokefest with people doing schtick to the enemy commanders. Tell Kylo to put his shirt on! You go girl!

What would you even do in the third episode for this trilogy? You don't even have an antagonist now. What are they going to do use Kylo? He has zero cred a villain.

Yeah a military would never try ramming one vehicle into another, that's stupid. I mean except when Japan sank like 30 of our ships in WW2. Now Imagine they could have just hit a button and instantly crashed into a ship from 100 miles away at a speed so fast that it literally cut the ship in half. But nah that wouldn't have been a game changer at all huh?

A poll on Star Wars.com... owned by Disney. You're not even trying. OOO I can read an article on "the music behind the completely absorbing World "of the Han Solo Story!

https://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/cinemascore-worthless/

I could go on and on about this movie, the stupid bombing scene, Holdo not telling Poe the plan for.... reasons..... which causes a mutiny..... but I'll stop =P

Seriously I kinda get the feeling that Luke could have masturbated while Force Choking himself and you'd tell me how it was totally consistent with his character while at the same time subverting my expectations.

Map FRAGMENT.  And some of those books are wrong anyway.  Wrong sizes for Executor and Home One, to name a few.  Should be 13km and 2 miles, going by the actual model measurements and photogrammetry.  They're also wrong about the sensor globes on Star Destroyers, erroneously calling them shield generators, a common misconception and misunderstanding of the scene in RotJ.  Either way, it's never said in the movies that Luke leaves a map to find him. =3

Why do we care what Mark Hamill thinks anyway?  Alec Guinness hated his character and called Star Wars "fairy tale rubbish."  Harrison Ford has been trying to get Han killed since Empire.

Did you even watch the video?  Anakin programs the starship to jump into hyperspace, with the coordinates being that moon.

How does he have 0 cred as a villain?  You've seen how unstable and emotional Kylo is.  He's dangerous.  And now he's his own boss with no one to control him.  Even worse than Vader if he was the Emperor since at least Vader was pretty controlled and not unpredictable like Kylo.

The Japanese were desperate, and possessing of a honor code that allows them to justify suicide attacks for their country.  The rebels aren't the kind of people to resort so such tactics, and there's never been any indication of it.  Otherwise the A-wing would have purposefully kamakazed the Executor in RotJ.  And they don't have the kind of resources to just endlessly throw ships at the enemy anyway.  It's a rare tactic for a reason, both here and in the Star Wars universe.

So the other ones you aren't going to address don't count either because reasons?  You only have one, shitty source, to back you up.  Also worth noting, the people that like the movie aren't clinging to review scores or Mark Hamill's opinions for validation.  I really don't care how many people hate this movie.  I like it.  Episode IX is still being made.  That's all that matters to me.  But just FYI, the movie got a round of applause at my theater when the credits rolled.

I addressed that in my reply to someone else.  Really just comes off like you guys wanted to hate this movie and are just searching for reasons to bitch and make that hatred justified in your mind.

Not sure what you wanted.  Luke doing Matrix and Crouching Tiger,  Hidden Dragon moves, hopping from AT-AT to AT-AT and chopping off their heads and flicking over others with the Force?  Why do you seem to think using the Force doesn't cost you anything?  Yoday says "size matters not" but you could see it took considerable effort for him to lift Luke's X-wing in ESB.

Edited September 30, 2018 by ben0119

[Daos]

UH Ben, does it look like that ship is going at hyperspace speeds when it hits the planet? He programs the computer to take it into the planet, and it hits the planet at... a normal speed? You're not helping your case. Did you even watch your own video?

They don't have the resources to use a smaller ship to kill a much larger Star Destroyer and at least 6 other Star Destroyers? Really? That's pretty cost efficient. A much better trade than you'll get in actual combat. Why don't the imperials use this then? Ample supply of ships. Oh and Ben, you don't need an actual person to fly a ship into something at hyperspace, they have droids remember? It's not a "rarely used" tactic. It was a never used tactic. 

Kylo is a whiny little brat, and he got beaten by Rey the first time she held a lightsaber. Doesn't Snoke even make fun of him in the movie by saying exactly that? Zero credibility. Not a suitable main villain for anything.

Are you seriously trying to compare Kylo to Darth Vader? Darth Vader is one of the greatest villains in cinematic history. Kylo is... uhhhh lol.

One source? The Star Wars Wiki and the Star Wars Encyclopedia would seem to be two sources, and... pretty good ones I would think? Apparently those sources aren't sourcey enough for you?

What other dumb questions did you have that you wanted addressed?

 

[TrigunBebop]

*reads thread*

Hmm... I didn't know that the Star Wars movies counted as anime...

[Jman]

49 minutes ago, TrigunBebop said:

*reads thread*

Hmm... I didn't know that the Star Wars movies counted as anime...

There were some manga adaptations of the films a while back.  Seeing New Hope with manga expressions is actually quite a sight.  It actually adds a lot of emotion to the scene when Luke finds Owen and Beru are dead.

[Rumb0]

Make no mistake. The makings of AnimeGate is yet another (((psyop))) to ruin another industry (((they))) don't have control over.

I don't like the shit CR does, but you can combat it by cancelling your CR subscription and resort to torrenting anime instead. There are plenty of public trackers and people who seed their shit, so there is no reason not to. Also, no company cares if you torrent anime, at all.

Thankfully there are some based companies that their do job and understand the market, like Sentai/ADV. It's gotten to the point where Sentai stopped dubbing anime all togther, and just straight up sub anime for localization. 

[The1gairon]

59 minutes ago, Rumb0 said:

Also, no company cares if you torrent anime, at all.

 

... all evidence I have ever seen has pointed to exactly THE OPPOSITE of this statement.

[Sandstone]

No because Japan doesn't care about western social politics, they give zero fucks and since anime is primarily from Japan I find it very unlikely.

[CaptainStarwind]

On 9/29/2018 at 8:52 PM, ben0119 said:

Then you don't understand Luke's character.  He's acted impulsively and in anger before.   People often don't learn from mistakes just on the first try, and Luke is no different.  Poe was in the wrong for disobeying orders and getting an entire bomber squadron killed on a pointless, wasteful attack.  He's lucky he didn't get thrown in the brig.  Do you know anything about the military or know anyone who serves ?  Commanding officers don't have to tell their subordinates anything, especially when secrecy is of concern.  Holdo likely feared a bug in the Resistance.  And... Poe's blabber mouth did end up getting a bunch of people killed.  So she was right to keep info close to the vest.  Holdo isn't completely in the right, either, for how she handled things.  It's not black and white.  Lots of people fucked up in this movie.  Seems like you don't understand character and plot progression.  TLJ followed up things perfectly.  Not sure how you think Kylo shouldn't be coming into his own as a villain.  Did you see how Snoke treated him?  It was established he was being used and abused by Snoke this whole time.  He got rid of the helmet after the insults and realizing craving for the past wasn't going to get him anywhere.  Now he gets to be what Vader never was.  His own Emperor.  Kylo's development is great.  You've been smoking too many corals.  Sequel trilogy isn't canon.  Lol.  Don't watch it then.  Go watch Eureka AO.

You're only replying to this NOW?  Your point is invalid solely for that reason alone.

Edited October 1, 2018 by CaptainStarwind
Spelling is evidently a challenge for me.

[Daos]

"Poe was in the wrong for disobeying orders and getting an entire bomber squadron killed on a pointless, wasteful attack. "

Ben are you sure you watched the movie? That ship was about to fire on the Raddus with its main gun, they were minutes away from being completely wiped out. If Poe had followed orders everyone would have died. As a reward for this, Leia slaps him, demotes him and lectures him about how you can't solve problems by blowing things up. Except for the imminent death they were about to all suffer, it solved that problem.

And hey, if Leia didn't like the whole bomber attack... why didn't she order everyone back? Why is everyone in this movie so stupid and incompetent?

The entire bomber scene was ridiculously stupid btw.

You know what would have made Vader a great villain? If he whined and sulked and had temper tantrums and then got his ass kicked by a teenage girl the first time she picked up a lightsaber. 

 

 

[ben0119]

On 9/29/2018 at 8:39 PM, Daos said:

UH Ben, does it look like that ship is going at hyperspace speeds when it hits the planet? He programs the computer to take it into the planet, and it hits the planet at... a normal speed? You're not helping your case. Did you even watch your own video?

They don't have the resources to use a smaller ship to kill a much larger Star Destroyer and at least 6 other Star Destroyers? Really? That's pretty cost efficient. A much better trade than you'll get in actual combat. Why don't the imperials use this then? Ample supply of ships. Oh and Ben, you don't need an actual person to fly a ship into something at hyperspace, they have droids remember? It's not a "rarely used" tactic. It was a never used tactic. 

Kylo is a whiny little brat, and he got beaten by Rey the first time she held a lightsaber. Doesn't Snoke even make fun of him in the movie by saying exactly that? Zero credibility. Not a suitable main villain for anything.

Are you seriously trying to compare Kylo to Darth Vader? Darth Vader is one of the greatest villains in cinematic history. Kylo is... uhhhh lol.

One source? The Star Wars Wiki and the Star Wars Encyclopedia would seem to be two sources, and... pretty good ones I would think? Apparently those sources aren't sourcey enough for you?

What other dumb questions did you have that you wanted addressed?

 

The Navi-Computer is for programming hyperspace routes.  The ship even makes the hyperspace jump sound.  I'd say you need to watch the video again and actually pay attention.  So yeah it was jumping to hyperspace into the moon, which I believe is the same as what happened with the Raddus.  Holdo programmed and timed the jump so she would hit the Supremacy just before entering hyperspace.  This is completely valid within the lore regardless of how things work once ships get into hyperspace, so... yeah.

Anakin used it.  There's also a comic where 3 Star Destroyers accidentally crash into the Executor through hyperspace, but the shield pulverizes them.  But EU silliness, and all that.  Where are they going to get these ships?  They have little money and resources.  We've not seen many droid piloted ships that were very effective compared to people, even clones.  You don't see droids or computer controlled guns either, except for Separatists.  Rebels and Resistance would be short of droids, too.  Because it's wasteful?  Also not exactly the Empire's style.  It's quite.... undignified, don't you think?  They still need those ships to control the galaxy and actually have an Empire.  You could ask why they didn't use 1000s of Star Destroyers at Endor instead of 40.  Well, they had to be able to hide the fleet to make the Death Star look relatively unprotected to lure the Rebels in, and the rest of those ships are needed to patrol the rest of the galaxy.  You're being a pedantic child over this.

JJ said something like Vader is the ultimate villain so you can't outdo him.  So instead they made a conflicted, unstable, erratic villain like Kylo.   He's not meant to be "badass."  The danger in Kylo is how unpredictable he is due to how unstable he is.  And don't you think since he lost he's going to be that much more pissed off, desperate, and dangerous?  He'll be out for revenge after Rey beat him and then turned down joining him.

I was talking about Rotten Tomatoes.  It's easy to see TLJ got review bombed there, and the same thing happened with Resistance before it even came out.  There's parroted negative TLJ reviews on Rotten Tomatoes... for movies that aren't even TLJ!  Upon looking your link dismissing CinemaScore is outdated and also bullshit.  You had nothing to say about SurveyMonkey.  Now it's come out that of the TLJ tweets directed at RIAN JOHNSON, only 20% were negative, and half of that 20% were politically motivated, so anti-SJW alt-right fucktards, some even including Russian agents and bots.  But as I said, I don't care what other people think of a movie I like, nevertheless I will dispel bullshit when I see it, and the idea there is this massive mob of TLJ haters is just that.  If you're talking about the map thing, I already explained to you why your source was wrong.  Star Wars Wiki is still a wiki, like Wikipedia, so it's good for some things but it still gets stuff wrong, and it got the map thing wrong, as JJ stated.  There are other things in the wiki and Star Wars Encyclopedia that are also wrong, like the aforementioned things about Executor and Home One size and the nature of Star Destroyer bridge globes.  It also used to be canon per SW Encyclopedia that Twi'lek lekku were erogenous zones.  Sadly doesn't seem to be the case under the new canon.  OH YE HOLY STAR WARS ENCYCLOPEDIA!

I dunno there was plenty of things you ignored or glossed over but I think I dealt with a lot of it with this post.

Edited October 17, 2018 by ben0119

[ben0119]

On 10/1/2018 at 9:13 AM, CaptainStarwind said:

You're only replying to this NOW?  Your point is invalid solely for that reason alone.

I do what I want, when I want.  I have better things to do than sinking all my time into the internet, or this forum.

[ben0119]

On 9/30/2018 at 12:30 AM, Sandstone said:

No because Japan doesn't care about western social politics, they give zero fucks and since anime is primarily from Japan I find it very unlikely.

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/comics/article/63583-japanese-manga-anime-firms-debut-latest-anti-piracy-project.html

https://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/90065844.html

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/jpgjj4/japan-protects-its-anime-with-anti-piracy-hires-

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/04/13/national/japan-calls-emergency-measure-blocking-access-websites-pirate-manga-anime/

[ben0119]

On 10/1/2018 at 12:05 PM, Daos said:

"Poe was in the wrong for disobeying orders and getting an entire bomber squadron killed on a pointless, wasteful attack. "

Ben are you sure you watched the movie? That ship was about to fire on the Raddus with its main gun, they were minutes away from being completely wiped out. If Poe had followed orders everyone would have died. As a reward for this, Leia slaps him, demotes him and lectures him about how you can't solve problems by blowing things up. Except for the imminent death they were about to all suffer, it solved that problem.

And hey, if Leia didn't like the whole bomber attack... why didn't she order everyone back? Why is everyone in this movie so stupid and incompetent?

The entire bomber scene was ridiculously stupid btw.

You know what would have made Vader a great villain? If he whined and sulked and had temper tantrums and then got his ass kicked by a teenage girl the first time she picked up a lightsaber. 

The only reason they couldn't leave was because Poe and the squadron weren't docked with the capital ships.  If they hadn't taken off, the fleet could have left already.  This is further evidenced by Leia saying to come back and Poe says "no this dreadnought is a fleet killer," meaning he was just doing it because he wanted to for some possible future engagement, not the current situation.  And for all he knows there's tons more of these ships.

She ordered Poe back, the commander.  The others were all following his orders.  They would've probably heard her command to Poe as well and still refused to turn back.  Well Poe was incompetent with that bomber run, and the Resistance is kind of slap-dashed together and has old and shitty equipment.  They aren't even as resolute as the rebellion as shown by the fact there are deserters.  It's well known that Hux is incompetent, as shown by his poor command and strategy skills and pointed out by the Dreadnought Captain Moden Canady and Snoke.  The spoiled brats are running the First Order, not the experienced former Imperials.

It's WWII inspired, by B-17 Flying Fortresses and B-29 Super Fortresses.  Those planes were could be shot down like that but carried a ton of bombs and would do serious damage once they reached their target.  Star Wars space combat in general has always been WWII inspired.  Hell you can see they copy-pasted fighter sequences from the OT from old WWII documentaries and movies, if you watch behind the scenes documentaries.  The Death Star trench run is based off the Dam Busters true story movie about pilots flying low below anti-aircraft fire and using special bouncing bombs to destroy a Nazi hydroelectric dam.  That battle doesn't make much sense either if you think too hard about it.

Again you miss the point of Kylo.  He's not meant to outdo Vader, he's a different kind of villain.  Wouldn't you be scared of someone that throws temper tantrums if they can kill you instantly with a thought?  And now there is no one to control him.

[ben0119]

On 9/29/2018 at 9:54 PM, TrigunBebop said:

*reads thread*

Hmm... I didn't know that the Star Wars movies counted as anime...

 

[Daos]

"She ordered Poe back, the commander.  The others were all following his orders.  They would've probably heard her command to Poe as well and still refused to turn back.  Well Poe was incompetent with that bomber run, and the Resistance is kind of slap-dashed together and has old and shitty equipment"

It's actually pretty hard to argue with someone whose brain doesn't follow any concept of logic or reason.  What I have gathered from this is that you like the movie, and instead of admitting flaws with the movie have decided to create fan fic style solutions for why none of the flaws and plot holes are actually flaws or plot holes.

So they would have heard Leia, legendary leader of the Rebellion..... and decided to ignore her and follow.... POE. Ok Ben.

[CaptainStarwind]

16 hours ago, ben0119 said:

I do what I want, when I want.  I have better things to do than sinking all my time into the internet, or this forum.

Is that antagonism I sense?  -10 points.

[ben0119]

On 10/17/2018 at 9:25 AM, Daos said:

"She ordered Poe back, the commander.  The others were all following his orders.  They would've probably heard her command to Poe as well and still refused to turn back.  Well Poe was incompetent with that bomber run, and the Resistance is kind of slap-dashed together and has old and shitty equipment"

It's actually pretty hard to argue with someone whose brain doesn't follow any concept of logic or reason.  What I have gathered from this is that you like the movie, and instead of admitting flaws with the movie have decided to create fan fic style solutions for why none of the flaws and plot holes are actually flaws or plot holes.

So they would have heard Leia, legendary leader of the Rebellion..... and decided to ignore her and follow.... POE. Ok Ben.

Did you actually pay attention to the movie?  The base is empty by the time the Fulminatrix fires on it.  The only thing holding them up at that point was Poe and his squadron.  With his stalling of Hux and the fleet done and the base evacuated, his job there was done.  If Poe had returned when ordered, they could already have left and been out of reach of the dreadnought.

You are the one who doesn't follow the concepts of logic or reason and apparently doesn't pay attention to anything he watches.  I have done nothing of the sort.  You have just misunderstood, misinterpreted, or lied about the movie.  I have to admit flaws to placate you?  I can't just like the movie?  Get over yourself.  I'm not the one making the arguments here.  You are.  Burden of proof is on you.  The Last Jedi is a masterpiece.  I'm sorry you aren't able to understand and appreciate that, but at the end of the day, it's just a fucking movie.  Surely you have other interests?  Personally I don't dwell on things I don't like.  I forget about them and move on.

No clue, but, like I said, it was Poe's fault for disobeying the order.  You can do these WELL WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THIS LOL for every Star Wars movie ever and pick them apart like that and they will fall to pieces.  You obviously aren't happy you didn't get the movie you wanted, so you look for things to bitch about.  Not liking a movie isn't good enough for you.  It has to be "bad" for you to feel justified and validated.  Pretty sad and juvenile.

Edited October 21, 2018 by ben0119

[Daos]

8 hours ago, ben0119 said:

Did you actually pay attention to the movie?  The base is empty by the time the Fulminatrix fires on it.  The only thing holding them up at that point was Poe and his squadron.  With his stalling of Hux and the fleet done and the base evacuated, his job there was done.  If Poe had returned when ordered, they could already have left and been out of reach of the dreadnought.

You are the one who doesn't follow the concepts of logic or reason and apparently doesn't pay attention to anything he watches.  I have done nothing of the sort.  You have just misunderstood, misinterpreted, or lied about the movie.  I have to admit flaws to placate you?  I can't just like the movie?  Get over yourself.  I'm not the one making the arguments here.  You are.  Burden of proof is on you.  The Last Jedi is a masterpiece.  I'm sorry you aren't able to understand and appreciate that, but at the end of the day, it's just a fucking movie.  Surely you have other interests?  Personally I don't dwell on things I don't like.  I forget about them and move on.

No clue, but, like I said, it was Poe's fault for disobeying the order.  You can do these WELL WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THIS LOL for every Star Wars movie ever and pick them apart like that and they will fall to pieces.  You obviously aren't happy you didn't get the movie you wanted, so you look for things to bitch about.  Not liking a movie isn't good enough for you.  It has to be "bad" for you to feel justified and validated.  Pretty sad and juvenile.

There's a reason people hated it. There's a reason why 8000 videos are on youtube describing the same logical inconsistencies and plot holes.

You don't possess the ability to logic and reason. It's simply not there.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Daos

[EmpressAngel]

On 10/17/2018 at 8:25 AM, Daos said:

 

So they would have heard Leia, legendary leader of the Rebellion..... and decided to ignore her and follow.... POE. Ok Ben.

Again, have you seen Oscar Isaac's eyes? They're like pools of warm chocolate.

[Daos]

3 minutes ago, EmpressAngel said:

Again, have you seen Oscar Isaac's eyes? They're like pools of warm chocolate.

Yeah but Leia's got all this going on.

 

[Top Gun]

HAD it going on.  God rest her soul, but I don't think Carrie Fisher circa 2017 could have rocked that.

[Jman]

6 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

HAD it going on.  God rest her soul, but I don't think Carrie Fisher circa 2017 could have rocked that.

Always loved her explanation for that thing.

”A space slug made me wear it, I didn’t like it, so I killed him.”  Carrie was a treasure.

[Daos]

1 hour ago, Top Gun said:

HAD it going on.  God rest her soul, but I don't think Carrie Fisher circa 2017 could have rocked that.

Well ya know a few decades and kilos of cocaine do take their toll.

But I'm sure all the rebel soldiers had that pic in their wallets.

[Rumb0]

On 9/29/2018 at 10:28 PM, elfie said:

... all evidence I have ever seen has pointed to exactly THE OPPOSITE of this statement.

I never once got copyright strikes from my ISP by torrenting Chinese cartoons in the past 15 years. I didn't have to mask my IPv6 address either. Maybe if you lived in Japan, but elsewhere no one gives a shit.