Vegeta and Bulma

[mochi]

someone had a post on tumblr pointing out what a Hypocrit Bulma is when it comes to her deciding to leave Yamcha for "cheating on her" when she cheated on him constantly

 

and I saw something interesting in the post

 

Vegeta has the same initial reaction to Bulma's flirting that General Blue did

 

 

 

I'm not sure if I should take that to mean General Blue wasn't actually gay, or if I should take it to mean Vegeta wasn't into women prior to meeting Bulma, since we know Vegeta ultimately returned Bulma's Affection

 

(for that matter Yamcha thought girls were horrifying before he met Bulma too)

[3ngag3]

Can't you just relegate your DBZ/Super/GT crackpot theories into one single thread?

[HardcoreHunter]

She was on a "break" from Yamcha at the start of the blue saga due to him being with other girls. 

 

According to Toriyama's info which he has retconed about every time he is asked about sayin relationships. First it was that Sayins mate with the strongest male/female they can find, then they will eventually go their separate ways.  A retcon added that Bardock and Goku's mom stayed together which was uncommon. A comment by Vegeta to Goku is that they are attracted to Chichi and Bulma respectively because of their aggressive strong natures. Interestingly Goku ended up with the strongest woman on earth "at the time".  Vegeta's reaction in the image is more of a pride issue which they have pop up a lot in DBZ, but he seems to have gotten over in super. As well Vegeta is the odd one in this scenario since he enjoys being around Bulma, while Goku keeps trying to wander off. 

[mochi]

She was on a "break" from Yamcha at the start of the blue saga due to him being with other girls. 

 

According to Toriyama's info which he has retconed about every time he is asked about sayin relationships. First it was that Sayins mate with the strongest male/female they can find, then they will eventually go their separate ways.  A retcon added that Bardock and Goku's mom stayed together which was uncommon. A comment by Vegeta to Goku is that they are attracted to Chichi and Bulma respectively because of their aggressive strong natures. Interestingly Goku ended up with the strongest woman on earth "at the time".  Vegeta's reaction in the image is more of a pride issue which they have pop up a lot in DBZ, but he seems to have gotten over in super. As well Vegeta is the odd one in this scenario since he enjoys being around Bulma, while Goku keeps trying to wander off.

Vegeta actually has more Human personality traits than Goku does at the current time, which is ironic

 

Goku does whatever he wants and doesn't care what other people have to say about it, Vegeta actually thinks his actions have consequences

 

Goku's more animal-like in mental faculties than Vegeta is

 

 

(there's a rumor/leak going around claiming that Goku's new upcoming Super Saiyan form is actually the result of his mind decaying and devolving back into a violent and beast-like "Primal" saiyan mental state)

 

 

in a nutshell, Vegeta likes being Human(ironically), and Goku subconsciously hates it

[HardcoreHunter]

Well Goku is also brain damaged for what that's worth. Like you said Goku doesn't really like human traditions ie raising a family.

It's kinda funny how Super has been pretty much outright shipping him with his U6 counterpart.

 

 

right click open in new tab to read better. Actually funny that it's not edited, the scene plays out like that.

 

[mochi]

Well Goku is also brain damaged for what that's worth. Like you said Goku doesn't really like human traditions ie raising a family.

It's kinda funny how Super has been pretty much outright shipping him with his U6 counterpart.

 

 

right click open in new tab to read better. Actually funny that it's not edited, the scene plays out like that.

 

Um.....ew ::]::

(so the show has self-cest now?)

 

 

edit: wait a minuet now

if Caulifla is U6 Goku, then does that mean Kale is U6 Raditz, and not female Broly? (she calls Caulifla her sister constantly which is why I don't ship them)

 

[HardcoreHunter]

 

As of now they both just really like fighting. She wants Goku to teach her how to go SS2.  Still the body language is rather suggestive. When they first met the eyes have an odd line of sight. Goku's seem to go straight to the breasts and Califa's are aimed at his junk. Coincidence....Most likely yes

 

 

[mochi]

 

As of now they both just really like fighting. She wants Goku to teach her how to go SS2.  Still the body language is rather suggestive. When they first met the eyes have an odd line of sight. Goku's seem to go straight to the breasts and Califa's are aimed at his junk. Coincidence....Most likely yes

 

 

why do all of

U6's saiyans

look like kids?

[MasqueradeOverture]

So Super gets into some Allenby Beardsley territory?

 

K.

[HardcoreHunter]

I think it has to do with Toriyama's new style of trying to be one piece, by making characters super thin. Other people have brought up why U6 sayins look so small. It could also be that they are really younger than U7 sayins. Calufia calls Goku Old Man at first, but it could have just been an insult and not literal, as she is a gang leader. As a whole U6 sayins are good guys while U7 sayins are villains. The sayins of U6 are hired to help end conflicts while U7's were used to conquer planets. In turn U6 Sayins only recently learned how to go SS by Vegeta teaching his counterpart Cabba. Cabba in turn taught Caluifa and Kale how to go SS. It has also caused some confusion as to why the U6 Sayins can go SS so easily. One theory is that they aren't nearly as strong as U7 base sayins so it may work differently. For whatever reason they have evolved to no longer have tails, despite this being called a monkey is still viewed as their N word.

[AnimationFan14]

She was on a "break" from Yamcha at the start of the blue saga due to him being with other girls. 

 

[Sandstone]

mochi[/member]

 

Those Saiyans shown are in no way direct counter parts to any characters from Universe 7. They don't even have the same culture and

 

 

unlike in Universe 7 the Saiyan home planet exists which is a totally different planet btw.

 

 

There are some similarities between them because they are of the same race and Saiyans are pretty much all portrayed as being battle hungry for whatever reason as part of their nature. It's also misleading to claim the current arc of DB Super (in the sub) is shipping Goku with her, he only interacts heavily with her and the others in one scene (the one previously that was shown) and that's basically it. In fact, if anything Vegeta has had more direct interaction as a whole over the course of all the show's Arcs.

 

 

And Kayle is not a corresponding character to Broly, she is only a canonization of the Legendary Super Saiyan in Super. None of these characters are meant as direct "counter parts" to the universe 7 characters. I wish people would stop saying this because it is just not true and totally based on a stretch of the imagination and sketchy circumstantial evidence at best.

 

[ben0119]

Well, I think it's pretty obvious that Vegeta is uptight and has some tsundere characteristics, haha.  That's what made his interactions with Bulma early on so priceless.

[ben0119]

Sandstone[/member] Mochi is always plucking spoilers out from shows and misinterpretating, taking them out of context, twisting them, etc.  Would be one thing if he actually watched the future/current content of these shows, but he doesn't.  He looks up stuff and then runs with his bullshit.  He does it constantly with Super, and did it with Tokyo Ghoul, and plenty of other shows.  Yes, Tokyo Ghoul sucks, but Mochi was way off base with most of the shit he "pre-bitched" about.

 

It's annoying as fuck.  And now he's been Zeni-spamming these damn Super threads.

[HardcoreHunter]

Salada was the original planet of the Sayins, but they took over the Tuffels planet and renamed it Vegeta. They are counterparts, but it's more loose ie Frost being Frieza but slightly different.  Still it's going to be a moot point by now anyway as I doubt Toriyama in all his absent minded incompetence will remember that there are twin universes, being any two universes who's numbers add up to 13. If he wanted to stick harder to that then we would have most likely seen more duplicate fighters from the other twin universes than just U6 and U7. ie Toriyama didn't think it through that it would be boring to have that many similar characters fighting. 

[Sandstone]

 

Frost is the only one that could kind-of be considered a direct counter part. And while you are right in that they took over planet Vegeta it was their home planet for a good portion of U7 History and obviously is a huge difference, not to mention their culture has major differences, which could even be related to them not conquering other planets in U6 like planet Vegeta. While we are at it, Kabba acts nothing like Vegeta but would be his equivalent in the U6 paradigm.

 

 

[HardcoreHunter]

 

Frost is the only one that could kind-of be considered a direct counter part. And while you are right in that they took over planet Vegeta it was their home planet for a good portion of U7 History and obviously is a huge difference, not to mention their culture has major differences, which could even be related to them not conquering other planets in U6 like planet Vegeta. While we are at it, Kabba acts nothing like Vegeta but would be his equivalent in the U6 paradigm.

 

 

 

 

But Cabba does act somewhat like Vegeta's seldom mentioned brother lol

 

 

 

[mochi]

 

But Cabba does act somewhat like Vegeta's seldom mentioned brother lol

 

 

 

Cabba is probably a redesign/retcon of Tarble(Vegeta's brother)

 

[HardcoreHunter]

They at least did mention Tarble at one point when they needed another sayin. So I don't think they are retconing him, but it does seem like they have replaced him at this point.

[mochi]

They at least did mention Tarble at one point when they needed another sayin. So I don't think they are retconing him, but it does seem like they have replaced him at this point.

did they?, I don't remember if they actually mentioned Tarble

[HardcoreHunter]

did they?, I don't remember if they actually mentioned Tarble

 

They asked Vegeta if he could contact his brother for the SSGod ritual. Vegeta said he couldn't contact him in time.

[mochi]

They asked Vegeta if he could contact his brother for the SSGod ritual. Vegeta said he couldn't contact him in time.

hah, it's weird to think Tarble is Canon

 

although "Yo Son Goku and his friends return" being Canon would explain why super is so fucking awful

 

 

also WHERE THE FUCK IS LAUNCH!!!!

[PokeNirvash]

also WHERE THE FUCK IS LAUNCH!!!!

She's a truck driver now, last I checked.

[mochi]

She's a truck driver now, last I checked.

she was in Yo Son Goku and his friends return though

 

,

but then in super she disappears again

[PokeNirvash]

No time for adventures when there's product that need truckin'.

[Daos]

OMG Tarble is cannon now? From that shitty OVA? Jesus.

[mochi]

OMG Tarble is cannon now? From that shitty OVA? Jesus.

that shitty OVA was basically the Pilot episode of Super

 

which literally explains why Super is so fucking horrible

[Top Gun]

I still fail to see how Super is any worse than much of DBZ.  I mean...Buu.

[HardcoreHunter]

I still fail to see how Super is any worse than much of DBZ.  I mean...Buu.

 

Because the first two arcs were movie recaps and filler. Then they messed up characters like making Krillin even smaller and Vegeta taller, Goku's character changed, and normal bullets can now kill them etc. It would be like if Z started with a retelling of two movies over the course of 30 weeks. After a while people build too much expectation for what will come next like they will be rewarded for sitting through this stuff again. Then you get episodes of Turnks and Goten hanging out with a mailman in space.

 

[Daos]

I still fail to see how Super is any worse than much of DBZ.  I mean...Buu.

 

The Buu saga actually has stakes in addition to being entertaining. There is nothing at stake in Super and most of the episodes are just a boring waste of time. Planet blows up? Don't worry Whis will rewind time. Whis not around? Dballs? Or maybe the Namek balls? Super balls?

 

I have about a billion problems with Super so I won't go into a ton of them... but one of my main problems is the show just flat out stopped following it's own rules. Ginyu got less powerful when he swapped bodies once upon a time, then in Super he gets more powerful.

 

Stupid characters become smart, smart characters suddenly become stupid, Gohan the genius has to be reminded that they can use the D balls to revive fallen comrades.

 

Frieza becomes more powerful than SSGOD with 4 months of training with a useless lackey. Power scaling in general is completely out the window in Super.

 

Trying to make Goku a retarded sociopath who doesn't care about anyone and has never kissed his wife.

 

And the worst thing of all

 

 

When Vegeta watches SS3 Goku fight Kid Buu, he finally realizes that Goku will always be better than him. And that he will never be able to catch up to Goku in terms of power. He FINALLY gives up his obsession with being the strongest and swallows his pride. Super throws this right out the window and they're back to competing to see who can be the strongest again.

 

 

DBZ was never well written or anything, but you can't go back on everything you ever wrote just to make a buck.

[mochi]

 

 

When Vegeta watches SS3 Goku fight Kid Buu, he finally realizes that Goku will always be better than him. And that he will never be able to catch up to Goku in terms of power. He FINALLY gives up his obsession with being the strongest and swallows his pride. Super throws this right out the window and they're back to competing to see who can be the strongest again.

 

 

 

on this note, I think Vegeta's characterization in super would make more sense if they had stuck with him

giving up on besting Goku

 

it would explain why he's so loving and domestic to his family now, because he realizes being with them makes him happier than his pissing contest with Goku

 

but then they have him still trying to compete with Goku anyway

 

 

edit Oh, and something else

 

Vegeta briefly gives up trying to surpass Goku in the fucking Namek Saga, when he gets wished back to life he see's Goku as a super Saiyan, and his reaction is to smile at Goku and basically thank him for giving Vegeta's life closure by killing Frieza and avenging the extinction of their race

 

cut to three eps later, he still hates Goku and wants to surpass him for some reason

 

Vegeta's rivalry with Goku never really made sense

 

he'd go from being sweet and reformed one second to being a genocidal maniac the next

 

Saiyan Saga, Vegeta gets shown Mercy by Goku and re-evaluates his choices,

cut to namek Saga, kills a Namekian villiage for no reason, gets killed and cries recounting the years of tourment Frieza put him through making him what he is now and begs Goku to kill Frieza so he can never do what he did to Vegeta to anyone else, Goku does and wishes him back. Vegeta thanks Goku and smiles at him

3 episodes later Vegeta hates him again for some reason...then he marries Bulma and has a kid and seems fully content with human life

then the Androids show up Goku has a heart Attack and vegeta becomes Bloodthirsty again

Vegeta loses to cell, feels like an idiot, becomes loving again

cut to the Buu Saga, Vegeta is suddenly evil again, then has a touching scene with Trunks, stops being evil again and dies

then at the end he decides it's best if he gives up trying to best Goku and just focuses on his new life with his family

 

then Super throws his concession of defeat out so he can still be Goku's bitter rival

[Daos]

I mean they just keep bringing back all the most overused ideas and concepts from DBZ. Planets getting blown up, then fixed. Goku and Vegeta are rivals again. Frieza was cool right? Let's bring him back! Dragonballs? How about a third set of em! Can't go anywhere without your third set of balls.  And they just keep doing more of it with Trunks, Piccolo dying and getting wished back and Gohan being a bitch. Goku always being one step ahead of Vegeta and always getting the kill. Krillin and all the side characters being useless cannon fodder.

 

So... it's actually not that much different than DBZ. It's just that all the stuff Super is doing is so ridiculously played out and stale now that it really shows. It's a copy of something that worked 20 years ago that doesn't work anymore.

 

Not to mention guess what happened in GT? Goku fights Frieza and Cell. Piccolo dies, gets wished back. Earth blows up. Earth gets wished back. Third set of Dballs the Dark star Dballs. Gohan and Goten being useless. Every side character being useless cannon fodder. Sound familiar?

 

10 years from now we'll have Dragonball Ultra, and they'll say Super isn't cannon anymore either.

 

 

[mochi]

in other news Akira Toriyama designed a new character for the upcoming DBZ video game

 

 

 

 

her name is apparently Android #21

 

gonna go out on a limb and say she's modeled after Gero's wife since Toriyama says 16 was based on his son and 21 is wearing a wedding ring

 

[PokeNirvash]

It's gonna be pretty f'd up if they make her 16's love interest, assuming you're right about who she was modeled after.

[mochi]

 

It's gonna be pretty f'd up if they make her 16's love interest, assuming you're right about who she was modeled after.

 

no more so than a 50 year old woman (Mai) and an 8 year old boy (Trunks) being eachother's love interests  .....her being de-aged doesn't make it any less weird

 

[MasqueradeOverture]

 

no more so than a 50 year old woman (Mai) and an 8 year old boy (Trunks) being eachother's love interests  .....her being de-aged doesn't make it any less weird

 

 

 

Like a group of thousand year-old extraterrestrials going after a 16 year-old boy?

 

[mochi]

 

Like a group of thousand year-old extraterrestrials going after a 16 year-old boy?

 

hey I never said Tenchi wasn't disgusting in retrospect  >, just that the first and 2nd OVA's were better than the 3rd Onwards 

 

 

edit: also you forgot that all the thousand year old extraterrestials are his Aunts

[PokeNirvash]

When you've watched enough anime, the initial shock of incest wears off pretty fast.

[HardcoreHunter]

in other news Akira Toriyama designed a new character for the upcoming DBZ video game

 

 

 

 

her name is apparently Android #21

 

gonna go out on a limb and say she's modeled after Gero's wife since Toriyama says 16 was based on his son and 21 is wearing a wedding ring

 

 

"Wedding ring" You might want to look at that again mochi.

[Sandstone]

 

no more so than a 50 year old woman (Mai) and an 8 year old boy (Trunks) being eachother's love interests  .....her being de-aged doesn't make it any less weird

 

 

The Pilaf gang was actually officially retconned for Battle of Gods and Super btw, apparently, we were just supposed to figure out that it was since Toriyama didn't bother telling anyone why he did that until he was specifically asked about it in an interview.

 

 

 

Interviewer: Was the Pilaf gang appearing again also something you were particular about, Sensei? They had become children, though….

 

Toriyama: Yeah, about that. (laughs) Originally, they were just going to be petty thieves. But since we were going to have the entire cast, I thought [it wouldn’t be great if] some unknown characters just suddenly showed up. So I made them into the Pilaf gang. But you know, thinking long and hard about it after making that decision, they were all getting pretty old. (laughs)

 

Interviewer: Mai says she’s 41 years old. (laughs)

 

Toriyama: So I came up the idea that if I made them younger, they’d be just right.

 

Interviewer: They stirred things up in an unexpected role (?). I was honestly surprised at that romantic development!

 

Toriyama: Ah! Well, anyway, that’s the Pilaf gang for you. If they were to keep on appearing as villains, they’d just be easily defeated. So I figured, “maybe if I inject a little romance, the later developments will come more easily~”. (laughs) I hardly ever draw romance.

 

 

 

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/v-jump-may-2013-akira-toriyama-special-interview/

---

Also, they are apparently some of his favorite characters (at least to draw, and he finds them funny):

 

 

Interviewer: And do you have a favorite character to draw?

 

Toriyama: The Pilaf gang! They're small and I can move them around as I want, and their comedic expressions are really fun to draw!

 

 

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2016-10-26/dragon-ball-super-toyotarou/.107579

[mochi]

 

The Pilaf gang was actually officially retconned for Battle of Gods and Super btw, apparently, we were just supposed to figure out that it was since Toriyama didn't bother telling anyone why he did that until he was specifically asked about it in an interview.

 

 

 

 

 

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/v-jump-may-2013-akira-toriyama-special-interview/

---

Also they apparently some of his favorite characters (at least to draw, and he finds them funny):

 

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2016-10-26/dragon-ball-super-toyotarou/.107579

 

so basically Toriyama had designed some new characters, then decided at the last minuet, "wait I'll make them the Pilaf gang" and redesigned the Pilaf gang to be kids S:

[Sandstone]

mochi[/member]

 

Yep appears that way, at least that's what I understood him to mean lol. Basically, he just wanted to cause he thought they were cute as kids, and wanted to give Trunks a girlfriend. 

[mochi]

mochi[/member]

 

Yep appears that way, at least that's what I understood him to mean lol. Basically, he just wanted to cause he thought they were cute as kids, and wanted to give Trunks a girlfriend. 

speaking of Goten and Trunks, assuming Goten is also getting a girlfriend I'm pretty sure we know who it's going to be

 

Bulla

 

because "Bulma Leigh" has the son family's hair texture

 

 

edit: Bulma Leigh is Vegeta's Granddaughter from DBGT's epilogue

[Sandstone]

Also, he's stated that his philosophy revolves around just making a good scene that he likes personally, thinks is cute, or is fun for the audience and doesn't have any reservations about retconning shit as long as it doesn't really impact the overall narrative that he's trying to develop. And if you look at this case with the Pilaf Gang, it seems he is a fan of doing this if it also suits his purposes to further his own vision lol. He's specifically mentioned instances about Bulma and Trunks' hair color discrepancy, Videl's character design, the fact that Bulma has a sister that no one ever heard of before, ect... Since he pretty much designs all the major characters and plot elements before the animation and editorial team do anything it's kind of difficult to find away to excuse this as not being by his design lmao.

[Sandstone]

Yeah possibly, he'd be what 10 years older than her though, so that's a bit long to wait for a love interest loool. I don't remember their exact ages at end of DBZ but I know it wasn't more than 12 for sure. I think Goten will be cutest looking of all the earth Saiyans when he starts getting up into his teens and young adult years (assuming Super has a time skip or some other crazy factor).

[mochi]

Yeah possibly, he'd be what 10 years older than her though, so that's a bit long to wait for a love interest loool. I don't remember their exact ages at end of DBZ but I know it wasn't more than 12 for sure. I think Goten will be cutest looking of all the earth Saiyans when he starts getting up into his teens and young adult years (assuming Super has a time skip or some other crazy factor).

I think Pan and Bulla were both around 5 during DBZ's epilogue

[Sandstone]

Ok, I was really confused when you said this but then I realized that yet again.... I had completely forgotten about the extremely shitty and tacked on ending of DBZs final episodes after Buu or the "10 year timeskip".

 

But never the less it seems this does not line up with the current Super timeline and something is being retconned here yet again. Mainly that:

 

 

 

Bulla is born in super and Trunks and Goten are a good 10 years old at least because I checked and I believe they were 9 and 8 at the end of the Buu arc in DBZ. This would make them 19 and 18 at least during the future end of Z episode.... which would still put Goten 8 years the senior of Bulla. So if you are right the timeline is being retconned here yet again, because she is given birth to in Super (one of the soon upcoming arcs) and thus would be at least 9 or 10 by the End of Z episodes. God my head hurts ugh.

 

 

[mochi]

Ok, I was really confused when you said this but then I realized that yet again.... I had completely forgotten about the extremely shitty and tacked on ending of DBZs final episodes after Buu or the "10 year timeskip".

 

But never the less it seems this does not line up with the current Super timeline and something is being retconned here yet again. Mainly that:

 

 

 

Bulla is born in super and Trunks and Goten are a good 10 years old at least because I checked and I believe they were 9 and 8 at the end of the Buu arc in DBZ. This would make them 19 and 18 at least during the future end of Z episode.... which would still put Goten 8 years the senior of Bulla. So if you are right the timeline is being retconned here yet again, because she is given birth to in Super (one of the soon upcoming arcs) and thus would be at least 9 or 10 by the End of Z episodes. God my head hurts ugh.

 

 

the 10 years later Epilogue in Z implied Gohan and Videl waited a little while before they got married and had Pan 5 years after  the Buu Saga

 

Super starts off a few months after the Buu Saga and he and Videl are already married and she's already 9 months Pregnant

 

 

Bulla is then born a few months to a year later, so yes, a retcon is in place

 

Ironically, Pan and Bulla's Ages in GT actually match up to their ages in Super better

 

 

in GT Trunks is 17, and Pan is 10, but in the 10 years later epilogue Trunks is 18 and Pan is 5

 

Super may consider GT canon

[Sandstone]

I don't think he considers it Canon, but Toriyama has said that he liked some of the ideas brought up in some of the movies and GT before he decided to include them. We can see evidence of that in the inclusion of Legendary Super Saiyan in Super as canon while at the same time not canonizing Brolly (Toriyama has said before he doesn't like Brolly's character much).

 

This retcon definitely accounts for the discrepancies in the ages of the kids though.

[ben0119]

The Pilaf gang was actually officially retconned for Battle of Gods and Super btw, apparently, we were just supposed to figure out that it was since Toriyama didn't bother telling anyone why he did that until he was specifically asked about it in an interview.

 

 

 

 

 

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/v-jump-may-2013-akira-toriyama-special-interview/

---

Also, they are apparently some of his favorite characters (at least to draw, and he finds them funny):

 

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interview/2016-10-26/dragon-ball-super-toyotarou/.107579

 

So... no explanation for why the Pilaf gang are kids?  Some Dragon Ball related mishap I presume?